Talk:Kansas City metropolitan area, Missouri–Kansas/Archive 1

Please remember to sign your comments by adding --~ (two hyphens followed by four tildes)!! --KHill-LTown 04:58, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Local Government???
I was curious as to the structure of city governance -- How is one city that resides in two states structured? Are their one set of leaders? Two, one for each state (e.g., two separate 'city halls'? I might guess that there are two separate city governments, but i don't see this addressed in the article anywhere --Charlescengel (talk) 00:28, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It is impossible for a city to be incorporated in two states at the same in in the U.S. Kansas City, Missouri and Kansas City, Kansas are two separate cities that happen to be next to one another.  Kansas City, Kansas like other satellite cities was founded after the central city of Kansas City, Missouri.  The Local government of both cities is addressed in their respective articles. Grey Wanderer (talk) 01:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Demographics???
Why are there no demographics listed?? It seems like it would be pretty important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.203.248.176 (talk) 20:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Sprint Returning to OP
it was announced today that Sprint will reconsolodate its world headquarters ocne again in Overland Park. I have slightly edited the businesses section to accomodate this recent change, however it may need some re-wording to make it flow correctly. Please make edits as news comes forward on the business moveKcuello (talk) 21:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Geographic Overview
This article says that "South Kansas City" includes Independence and Blue Springs. Isn't that usually referred to as Eastern Jackson County? If not, I'm still pretty sure Indepedence and Blue Springs are not considered part of the Southland. PhnxFyreG 19:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Counties included in metro area
I live in Greater KC and it is difficult for me to imagine how anything outside Jackson, Clay, Cass and parts of Platte County, MO and Wyandotte and Johnson Counties in KS could be considered part of KC metro. Suburban development ends in these counties. There are satellite communities such as Eudora, Spring Hill, Basehor, etc but these are not really part of KC (although they may be swallowed up in the coming decades). I have heard local personalities include Lawrence in the metro, but you have to consider that it is in their interests to inflate KC's population so their station makes more money from advertisers.--Pocket Rockets 23:47, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * As the article states there are no natural borders. All the rich people in Johnson County are moving to Miami County and leaving behind the bonds for the hispanics and blacks to pay. This development is linking all those little towns.--Gbleem 18:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I live in greater Kansas City and I feel the complete opposite. As a matter of fact, I find it srprising that its a 40 minute drive from KU to Kansas City Downtown (with no traffic, off of rush hour) and Lawerence is not considered part of the metro area. If you are within an hour's drive of the center of a major downtown (major city) you should be part of that metro area. --68.46.198.44 13:14, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

But there's nothing between Kansas City and Lawrence. I could understand if there were whole suburbs and such between Lawrence and KC. But isn't there just lots of farmland? PhnxFyreG 18:51, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Math Error
There is ~2.59 km^2 to a square mile. Hence, the area should be either:

7,976 sq. mi. (20,657 km^2)

or

4,928 sq. mi. (12,762 km²)

I do not know which of the two areas is actually correct, though I suspect that it is the first one. In either case, it should be corrected by someone who knows which of the two it should be. --72.132.245.171 22:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * as of 2000 census should be 5,406.21 sq. mi source http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GCTTable?_bm=y&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&-CONTEXT=gct&-mt_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_GCTPH1_US25&-redoLog=false&-_caller=geoselect&-geo_id=&-format=US-10|US-10S&-_lang=en conversion to square km comes from http://www.unitconversion.org/area/square-kilometers-to-square-miles-conversion.htmlCynic783 15:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Quadrants?
Since when did we divide KC into four quadrants? To me, it's basically North, South, and Kansas. --KHill-LTown 14:54, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * A decidedly Missouri point of view... I think you would find that most "Kansas siders" would agree there is a definite cultural and political divide between Johnson and Wyandotte counties.  Missourians would say the same of Jackson and Cass, I would bet.--Pocket Rockets 22:03, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * True, there is a considerable divide between Johnson and Wyandotte. But I'm not quite up with mentioning that parts of Platte could be lobbed with Wyandotte County.  There's only two bridges connecting the two, one of them closed for maintenance until mid-September.  I see little to no correlation between Riverside and KCK, and there's no development to my knowledge along the western edge of I-435 in Platte County than stems from recent economic growth in western Wyandotte.--KHill-LTown 03:52, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry I wrote 'Jackson and Cass' when I meant 'Jackson and Clay'. Actually, I suspect Platte County is similar to Clay county demographically.  Wyandotte is a different beast altogether, down to their street grid .  There is no end to the ways you could divide up KC; Johnson Countians divide themselves between north and south, for goodness sake (IMHO this is one of the reasons KC struggles to keep up with other cities).  I am pretty satisfied with the quadrant idea though, for simplicity's sake--Pocket Rockets 02:12, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

The use of the term quadrant is a neutral term that I selected. It's all my fault. My goal is to make the inteligable (sp?) to a visitor from the outside. I was more concerned with street numbering and understanding directions from locals than cultural differences. Lots of visitors try to go east and west on north south streets because they don't know what part of town they are in.--Gbleem 18:20, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I can see how this would help visitors visualize the metro area, but I think the quadrants section should be included as a subsection of a Communities, Suburbs and Counties, rather than as its own section. Anyone else agree? I'm not going to change it myself unless others see a reason to as well since it's one of the more controversial issues.
 * Last comment was left by me yesterday--gauchodaspampas 00:52 19 December, 2005

The map of Kansas City in this section is way too big (1.9 MB!) and needs to be brought down in size --Millbrooky 01:59, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Somebody could size it down and submit it. (Sigh) "Kansas... as big as you think." --KHill-LTown 03:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Nowadays Jo Co people dont liek to be associated with Wyandotte. And lately the same is true for Wyandotte people not wanting to be asociated with JOhnson County (increased civic pride since the Legends was built) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.46.198.44 (talk) 13:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Midtown
What are the aprox bounderies of midtown?--Gbleem 18:31, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Roughly anything between Crown Center and the Plaza, with Westport to the west and Prospect Ave. (or something just west of that) to the East. --KHill-LTown 18:33, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, if you go by City Hall's definition of Downtown, Midtown would be from 31st street to around 45th/46th street --KCMODevin 20:46, July 29, 2006

Spam on this page
continues to add his link to a KC restaurant-promotion site which is clearly (to me at least) a commercial link which does not fit in an encyclopedia. I'm looking to avoid an endless revert war over this, because that doesn't benefit anyone - does anyone else have any thoughts about this site? (ESkog)(Talk) 00:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * As I said on the KCMO talk page, the Web site linked does appear to be a commercial guide, with only selected restaurants listed. Under the Northland section (an area of almost 200,000 residents spread across two counties) only four restaurants are listed.  If this was a guide that qualifies for listing, a heck of a lot more (Corner Cafe, The Dish, 54th Street, Ivy's, Tomfooleries, etc.) would be listed.  Clearly a restaurant must either pay or have some sort of affiliation with this Web site in order to be listed.  Again, I state that in the event of an RfA/RfC/RfD, I will side with the link's exclusion.  Something like this is better suited for WikiTravel, and only if EVERY restaurant is included. --KHill-LTown 01:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Religious Interests
Would it be beneficial to include information on which religions are headquartered out of the metro are? I'm thinking a section similar in structure to the "Business Interests" section. A list of religions with headquarters and/or major facilities in the area, such as Unity Church and Community of Christ.

Also, an idea of the religious makeup of the metro would be nice as well. So, worth following up? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.28.33.88 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC) Oops, forgot to actually log on for this comment. --Reverend Loki 07:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Something like that might have been started in the KCMO article. You're more than welcome to add it, of course. --KHill-LTown 04:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't see one there. It just seemed to me that, since of the two I mentioned, one was in Lee's Summit and the other was in Independence, the page for the Metro area would be more appropriate than the KCMO article.  Just feeling out opinions while I mull it over. --Reverend Loki 07:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

City map
Something need to be done @ the city map. It's only as a pixel down (and whatever px across). Doesn't display correctly. needs to be resized. and the KDOT disclaimer need to be put in. 204.56.7.1 14:50, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

High Schools listing missing Olathe.

Rush hours
I deleted the rush hour section of the page. I found it as an unnecessary part of this page. KevinJ 16:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)KevinJ

is the Plaza the first shopping center?
I noticed that the sentence about the Plaza being the first shopping center was removed presumably due to suspicion that it was not true and because it was not cited. I found a bit about that on the Plaza's website, added back a sentence about that, and cited it. It's a point of local pride that the Plaza is the first shopping center, so it's worth mentioning. I wish that I could find a source that was other than the Plaza's own website so that I could feel more comfortable saying more strongly that it is the first shopping center, not just that it is claimed to be. There is a PBS show on JC Nichols and the stuff he built. Maybe I can find a transcript of it somewhere. -- Amoore 15:35, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for finding a citation. One note, though - that site doesn't say "first shopping center ever built", but instead "designed in 1922 as the nation's first suburban shopping district." There is text near the bottom of that page which says "the country's first shopping center" - but the earlier information and the text here ("the first major shopping area in the country to be constructed to cater to people arriving by automobile") give the impression that there may have been other shopping centers in the United States. I've rewritten the text to state what we can support with the web site, and will take a look around for any other sources that might support the "first shopping center (ever) in America". (The plaza's own web site details other shopping areas around the globe that inspired this one, hence the need to qualify with "America"). Cheers. --Ckatz chat spy  19:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. Thanks for your help! -- Amoore 19:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The Plaza was originally the first shopping district designed to accomodate the automobile. Pelase research it and make the edits accordingly when you have timeKcuello (talk) 21:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Category:Kansas
I reverted a change that removed the Kansas category from this page. Seems to me that the KC Metro area (which includes KCK, as well as all of Johnson, Wyandotte, Platte and other KS counties) is a prominent enough feature of Eastern Kansas that it should remain. However, if you have a good enough argument to the contrary, I'm all ears. --Reverend Loki 21:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Geographic overview
Getting:
 * Error creating thumbnail: Invalid thumbnail parameters

@ Image:Map of Kansas City.png. Extended image syntax. Anyone else getting this? J. D. Redding

Areas
Don't confuse suburbs vs satellite cities ... J. D. Redding 15:22, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Compared in size to KCMO, they are suburbs... Now if St. Louis was next to KC, it wouldn't be a suburb. I changed it to cities because those are incorporated cities, areas implies it includes incorporated and unincorporated. --KCMODevin 21:26, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Many are not "suburbs" ...
 * Satellite cities are smaller municipalities that are adjacent to a major city which is the core of a metropolitan area.
 * They differ from mere suburbs, subdivisions and especially bedroom communities in that
 * they have municipal governments distinct from that of the core metropolis, and
 * employment bases sufficient to support their residential populations.
 * J. D. Redding (ps., 10,000 to 100,000 inhabitants would fulfill the second part; Emporia Kansas if located next to KCMO would be a satellite city ... and I wouldn't call Leavenworth, Kansas a suburb ... )


 * Just wanna point out - in Missouri, when an area is incorporating and has 500 or more residents, it's a city; under 500, it's a village - no official designation for "town". An incorporated village can elect to become a city when it's population exceeds 500, or not.  Of course, I got all this info from these two Wikipedia articles: List of cities in Missouri and List of villages in Missouri.  And we all know how reliable a source Wikipedia is ;).  Not sure what the distinction is in Kansas.  Anyways, I also wanted to point out that the title of that section is "Cities", so in reality we can leave out any further naming, such as "cities", "areas", "suburbs", "townships", or whatever, and just leave the population demarcations.  At least, that's what I would do. --Reverend Loki 22:20, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Switched it to "Metropolitan Area" from city ... rv it if you think it's wrong and not inclusive ...
 * "Areas" with a population demarcation, it would seem to me, is more inclusive than "cities", "suburbs", "townships", etc ...
 * But many cities are not "suburbs" but are "satellite cities".
 * I'll try to find the distinction is in Kansas as to "population exceeds" X "is called ..." ... J. D. Redding 23:06, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Found this book .. may be interesting ... it's alil old ...
 * Satellite Cities. A Study of Industrial Suburbs By Graham Romeyn Taylor
 * ISBN 1402161883 J. D. Redding 23:20, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree Reverend, but either way... You might want to learn what a suburb is Redding, no offense intended, but this is what I do all the time, study cities, urban planning, Kansas City, etc... Suburbs aren't just subdivisions, etc... in a single city. They are adjacent "cities" and "towns" that are near or next to a main city. A suburb is basically the area not in the urban core (different from urbanized area), and that isn't rural in nature. Once, Pendleton Heights, the East Side, Crown Center, the Plaza, etc... were considered suburbs/suburban areas. Even the Loop was a suburban area at one point. Now they are urban in nature, especially compared to the suburbs. Most of KCK is suburban, only the easternmost part of it is urban. Most of Independence is suburban as well. And all of Olathe and OP is suburban. --KCMODevin 23:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the population demarcations without a qualifier. J. D. Redding (PS., I know about KCK, I live there ... alot of it is urbanized, more than just the easternmost part (such as along most of the Kaw river)...)

Actually, the urban area of KCK ends at about 635. Some of it ends before that. Which is about a 30 square mile area, compared to it's total area of about 127 square miles. Any housing under 10 units/acre isn't urban. --KCMODevin 02:27, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

WTF? Where you get that info? A quick glance around and I found ppl in Ohio talking about low-density urban as 1000 to 5000 persons per square mile or 0.3 to 1.5 acres per housing unit. Your def would be like extremely high density urban areas, like 1 unit per tenth of an arce. J. D. Redding 03:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually Reddi, KC is full of buildings with 10 units/acre. Look at the East Side, Pendleton Heights, around the Plaza, Crestwood area, Downtown KCK, etc... Might want to check out the Congress for New Urbanism. Urban area is not the 5 units/acre that is found in most parts of the metro, especially in KCK west of the highway, all over Overland Park, all over Olathe, in the eastern part of the metro, as well as the Northland. --KCMODevin 04:14, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

This, as an example, is 10 units/acre: map1. This, is 5 units/acre, which isn't urban: map2. --KCMODevin 04:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The "5 units/acre" would mean that the areas are low-density Urban area. I'll see what the Congress for New Urbanism has any figures. J. D. Redding 04:49, 29 April 2007 (UTC) (PS., it's funny that you picked that map2, because just south of Indian Springs (a few block south on that map2; the big building) and across the Kaw is all the industrial and railroad yards ... right next to Kansas Avenue ... the brown area to the southwest is the old landfill (SW of indian springs) ... )

Ah ... found the formula @ Urban_area ... J. D. Redding 05:05, 29 April 2007 (UTC) (KCK has a density of 1,149/sq mi (443.6/km²))

Actually no, 5 units/acre is suburban sprawl (also known as urban sprawl), which is not actually urban, but suburban. On wikipedia, the article urban area is a reference to urbanized area, which is basically everything that isn't rural. (suburban and urban) More sites are CityMayors, Planetizen, SmartCityRadio, and Sprawl City. Urbanized area (which is what wikipedia has under urban area) is far different from urban area. Because urbanized area includes suburban and urban. This is basically KCMO's urban area: map3--KCMODevin 14:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I do find it amusing that you would call things above 75th and below Volker in KCMO as urban ... but have an opinion that anything around State, Parallel, and Leavenworth east of 635 and south of 70 as not being urban. lol. Argentine, Rosedale, and Turner, which are urban areas and are nearly as old as KCMO itself, are part of KCK. When is the last time you been down to southwest blvd and merriam lane near 35? or 18th expressway and kansas ave (or metropolitan and 18)? Do you call brookside urban? or the south side of ward pkwy (between 55th and gregory) urban? HA! J. D. Redding 18:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

First of all, you need to change your attitude. Secondly, you ought to learn what urban is, and what urban is not. Much of the area around Ward Parkway isn't urban, however the area around Brookside is pretty urban. Most of the area included in the 1910 city limits of KCMO is urban. There is the area between Brookside, west to the State Line, and from 51st street south isn't urban. May I also mention I do study these kinds of things in the KC area every day? and I have been studying/learning them for the past several years? Again, I suggest you change your attitude. --KCMODevin 21:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Calm down. From your statement "basically KCMO's urban area" and map3 ... it seemed that you were stating that Brookside and Ward Pkwy and area to the State Line was being cited as "urban". It was kinda funny to me. I am glad you clarified ... as that cuts out half of the map you linked to in map3 (aka., cuts off most everything south of the plaza ... "51st street south isn't urban") ... do you study these kinds of things for the KCMo or KCK area? Do you do city planning? Do you do stuff on the MoKan regional dev council?

Regardless ... the industrial urban area around Kansas Ave and the state line out to the turner diagonal (though alil broken up by the river) makes the area around Brookside (brookside and wornall, the "pretty urban" area) look like a suburban strip mall ... the Waldo Area has some concentration (a'lil like southwest blvd) along 63rd and Troost (with this latter KCMO area looking more like 78th and state in KCK, though it doesn't compare to the area of Kansas avenue between 7th and 18th) ... but the majority of the area (south of ward pkwy / volker) is more akin to suburbia (like most of OP in JoCo) ... anyways ... most of KCK is urban, larger than "30 sq miles" ... besides the downtown area, most of the area south of 70 and out to the kaw drive area is urban. J. D. Redding 22:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Those industrial areas are too often full of 1-3 floor, sprawling buildings, and have virtually no people living in them. However an area like the West Bottoms is urban. This is what I'd classify as KCK's urban area: map4 which is about 30 square miles. You also have to keep in mind these maps are rough, and not completely precise. --KCMODevin 00:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

It's an old discussion, but here's a good definition http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/Rurality/WhatIsRural/ "In general, they must have a core with a population density of 1,000 persons per square mile and may contain adjoining territory with at least 500 persons per square mile" --flyingember


 * The US Census Bureau defines an urban area as: "Core census block groups or blocks that have a population density of at least 1,000 people per square mile (386 per square kilometer) and surrounding census blocks that have an overall density of at least 500 people per square mile (193 per square kilometer)." Grey Wanderer | Talk 13:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Why not in Kansas?
This may seem dumb but why is Kansas City not in Kansas?? (♠ Taifar  ious1  ♠) 03:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Kansas City was founded before Kansas became a state. It took it's name from the local Kanza tribe and the Kansas River. Missouri was already a state and Kansas City was founded in 1853. However Kansas did not ever become an actual state until 1861 (almost 10 years later). Kansas City, Missouri came to be well before Kansas did. --KCMODevin (talk) 05:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh right, makes sense now, thanks for clearing that up! Taifar  ious1  07:45, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, there *is* a Kansas City, Kansas which is a distinct municipality from Kansas City, Missouri. A lot of people are confused by this. 66.64.110.154 (talk) 17:28, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Non-freeway travel?
Kansas City has no other transportation other than highways? Sounds typical of the United States, but surely there is something... I believe Amtrak runs right through the center, does it not? Alphalife (talk) 02:24, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Kansas City vs Kansas City Metropolitan Area
I need some help understanding something friends. As you read this, evenly spead the sarcasm, as it is generously provided. I went to Wikipedia.org this morning and typed "Dallas" into the Seach Box, the same Search box that can be found on the left side of your very own screen. I was redirected to Dallas, TX as expected. After that I did a similar search but for "Boston" this time, and as you can imagine it redirected me to the Boston, MA page. Finally, I did a search for "Chicago", and I was redirected to Chicago, IL.

I was beginning to notice a trend, any time I would type a name of a major city in the Search Box, the results would match! Well, you can imagine my suprise when I typed in "Kansas City" and expected Kansas City, MO to come up, only to find something none of the other cities' results had, Kansas City Metropolitan Area. Naturally I was a bit upset that my city was being redirected to a Metro page, almost as if Kansas City, MO wasn't good enough as a result. I disagree with this result, at no point does anyone do a search for Kansas City with the intention of the Metro area, instead, just as with every other city, they intend to get information on that city specifically.

There is no reason that I, or anyone, should be redirected to this page(Kansas City Metropolitan Area), unless the words: "Kansas City Metropolitan Area" are typed in that Search box to the left. This has been changed in the past, back and forth, and I'm suprised I haven't found the Discussion page on it. Please, I swear to whatever God (god), I need this, tell me why its being changed back? Talk to me, explain to me why you think that this is correct? I'd love to hear your reason, so that I can prove you're wrong. SakuraAvalon86 (talk) 23:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Check out, Talk:Kansas City, The redirect was changed by a fairly active in removing all references to Kansas City, Missouri in any Kansas-side related article. Grey Wanderer | Talk 20:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Buckner
Buckner, MO is listed as part of the Metro. I'm pretty sure it's too far away for most people to consider it that way. From what I understand they used to even have their own area code. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amn12 (talk • contribs) 04:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Buckner is included because it is located within Jackson County all of which is included in the census defined metro area. Grey Wanderer (talk) 17:48, 8 August 2009 (UTC)