Talk:Kansas Jayhawks/Archive 1

Hall of Fame list
To our anonymous friend with the dynamic IP: Please provide sources that these individuals ever played or coached at KU. I have a media guide from 2003 and none of the individuals you added (except Endacott, who I have inserted into the list) are in there. I know for certain that Suns owner Jerry Colangelo never played here, and the coaches you listed never coached here either. I'm not positive about the other two but I can't find anything verifying them either. I will continue to revert this addition of what appears to be patently false information. (ESkog)(Talk) 15:24, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I know for a fact that KU has the most BBall HOFers associated with it of any university... methinks that if you were to look at the HOF banner at AFH you would see all of those names. --Uggh1134 02:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, they aren't there. (ESkog)(Talk) 04:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Blow-by-blow description of the 2006-07 season
The detailed paragraphs on each and every game of the basketball season are going to bloat this article with cruft like nothing else. Wikipedia is not sports journalism - in fact, it's not journalism at all. The closest Wikimedia thing which comes close to this is Wikinews, but I don't know that I'd feel good sending this over there either. I'm going to remove the whole section, but thought that such a broad move required an explanation. Take it to a blog or something. (ESkog)(Talk) 04:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Number of National Championships
How should national championships in athletics be counted? A recent update changed it from 9 to 11 along with a change from 2 to 4 in men's basketball. The text reads NCAA Division I championships, but the men's basketball championships in the 1920s pre-dated the NCAA. The NCAA website recognizes championships as early as 1939, not before.  As it stands now, the article is technically inaccurate. Should the number reflect NCAA Division I championships or should the text be re-written to refer to "national championships" (or some other form)? I went ahead and reverted it back to 9 and 2 consistent with the Wikipedia entry for NCAA tournament champions and the NCAA Website. Jayhawks71 00:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)Jayhawks71

I looked a bit further to try to resolve the discrepancy. Given that the article on the Helms Foundation suggests that NCAA championships were rewarded retroactively, perhaps the number should be 9/2 men's basketball, with a sentence identifying the two additional that technically predated the NCAA. I look forward to input; I don't want this to turn into some sort of battle. Jayhawks71 01:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)Jayhawks71

kansas Football
Removed "On November 3rd 2007 the Jayhawks scored 76 points against the Nebraska Cornhuskers. The most points scored by a single team in big twelve history." from the end of the football section because it was already mentioned in the cut from the main football article. Looks like that article may need to be cleaned up too. Silly beakers. Jklharris 17:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

jayhawk image
A better version (sharper, more accurate colors) of the Jayhawk is found on page 17 of this official graphic identity document: http://www.identity.ku.edu/KU_graphic_standards.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.213.220.186 (talk • contribs) 7 April 2008

NCAA violations
Comments below, while reflecting dislike for the content, in no way make it inaccurate or irrelevant to the subject of KU's Men's Basketball. The information is unique to the team in the NCAA, and therefore warrants mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.252.248.203 (talk) 21:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Disagreed. Before adding it again, get consensus here. In the meantime, be aware of WP:3RR. →Wordbuilder (talk) 22:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Adding references to NCAA violations as it is consistent with other comments regarding NCAA notables such as streaks, records and other trivia such as quotes and individual game scores. Date has been updated to reflect the creation of the NCAA enforcement program in 1952. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.252.248.203 (talk) 20:40, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Removing reference of NCAA violations and probation. This is true but no relevant to the point of this article which is to simply provide an introduction the KU athletics, not discussion the violations of the university. No other university sports intro pages discuss their violations. It is simply being added by rivals of the university and not for informational purposes. Also the quote about the NCAA being formed in 1953 is not even correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan2845 (talk • contribs) 19:26, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I don't know of any other article like this that includes this type of "criticism section". The exception is SMU since the "Death Penalty" was pivotal to the program and a major event in the world of college sports. →Wordbuilder (talk) 21:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think the there needs to be a criticism section or even a paragraph, but since the information is well sourced with a third party citation and notable ("first team" and "holds the most of any NCAA team") it probably justifies a sentence. What ever the case 3RR was long ago violated.Grey Wanderer | Talk 22:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that the information is correct and well sourced, but i disagree that it belongs in this article. This page is not a rap sheet. If we list offenses here, then I argue we should list all NCAA offenses on every other teams page, because I can provide the same documentation. I would expect those edits left as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan2845 (talk • contribs) 23:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I also agree that this information is unnecessary in this article. Violations aren't the point of the page--maybe another article could be created about NCAA violations in general for all schools but is unneeded on this specific page.Soccerlord8 (talk) 15:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I also support the creation of an alternate page for the listing of NCAA violations. While it should not be completely removed, it does not belong listed with the specific Kansas Jayhawks Basketball section. (Swishymcjackass (talk) 20:01, 22 June 2008 (UTC))


 * I too support the creation of an alternate page to discuss the violations of all schools, as KU is by no means alone, or even the leader in total NCAA violations. Suggest the article be created at NCAA Violations by those interested. Grey Wanderer, as the primary opponent here, would you agree to this as a resolution of this issue? Ryan2845 (talk) 12:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think a NCAA violations article will pass an afd at the moment. Also even should the information be included there, the most obvious candidate for the content is this one.  Many articles include information on a programs NCAA violations see this, and this are just two quick examples.  This page is exactly where such information belongs, and removing the information, especially information sourced with reliable third party sources, seems a lot like whitewashing the page.  Grey Wanderer | Talk 20:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I would support moving it to Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball, as VegaDark has suggested below, if we can't do an NCAA Violations article. The other cases you have listed are a bit more extreme cases (a murder case and forfeiting 114 games respectively). Whereas the KU items are more akin to trivia. I would support possibly leaving the the stat about the 1989 postseason ban on this page, but do not feel that the "most NCAA violations" statistic amounts to anything more than useless trivia, which if still desired, would fit better on Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball. Ryan2845 (talk) 21:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with you showing that other teams violated NCAA rules, if they have and it is well sourced it belongs on any teams page. Certainly KU being the team with the most and only team to be prevented from defending its championship qualifies well above that standard.  Also this page isn't a rap sheet the content is in good prose incorporated into the body of the article, not a list of any kind and certainly not a list of every violation.  Its simply a summery of the more notable effects of the violation.Grey Wanderer | Talk

The information most definitely belongs in the article. It is notable and sourced, simple as that. People come to this page to find out about the Jayhawks, not a whitewashed version of the page with no critical information about them. VegaDark (talk) 16:52, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, a better place for this information would be at Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball, but it shouldn't be removed from Wikipedia entirely. VegaDark (talk) 17:01, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. I primarily object to the knee jerk removal of pertinent and well-cited information, particularly without discussion.  --ElKevbo (talk) 18:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Edit warring contains, got the page semi-protected to prevent ip vandalism. So far it seems there are two users (maybe one see : Suspected sock puppets/Ryan2845) who keep removing the information, and several users (User:Jan eissfeldt, User:Deor, User:eleland, User:ElKevbo, User:Grey Wanderer, and the original editor) who have reverted the deletion of content. Grey Wanderer | Talk 20:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have suggested what I think is a more fair resolution above, let me know what you think. I do think that there is potential for lots of randoms to come remove the information though, as it is a controversial edit amongst fans of the university. Ryan2845 (talk) 21:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I think thats fine, I agree with your designation of most NCAA violations as triva. But should be more specific, leave the 1989 postseason ban on this page, and move "most NCAA violations" and "1989 postseason ban" to the basketball page. As far as anons or "randoms" as you call them, if we come to a consensus then we can watch the page and revert any content removals and warn the users. Also as far as it being controversial edit amongst fans the of the university, fans of the university are probably the least equipped to be unbiased and may posses a COI in the issue. If that is agreeable to you, then consensus has been reached and we can make the edit. Grey Wanderer | Talk 21:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This sounds like a fair resolution to me. I would suggest the 1989 ban could go under the opening paragraph of Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball, and the "most violations" go under the existing trivia section. Ryan2845 (talk) 21:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright, I added the content to Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball, with a few modifications: I deleted the triva section, per Trivia and incorporated what was salvageable into the prose. I added the 1989 ban info in the 1988 championship section.  I added the most violations info in the lead after a long list of kansas' other "positive" records.  If that meets your approval I'll go ahead and add the 1989 content back into this page. Grey Wanderer | Talk 21:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me, go ahead with the addition on this page. Ryan2845 (talk) 22:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Done, thanks ryan. Grey Wanderer | Talk 22:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well done folks! --ElKevbo (talk) 00:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

NCAA Violations (cont.)
Wanted to start a new section here so it wouldn't be lost in the shuffle. Upon looking closer at the source for the "committed more NCAA Major Infractions than any other NCAA Division I Basketball program." statement (https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBI.home) I discovered that both the University of Cincinnati and the University of Minnesota also have 5 Major NCAA Basketball Infractions (equal to KU) In light of this information, that makes the quoted statement both inaccurate and no longer unique to KU. Wanted to get a consensus before doing anything? Comments? Ryan2845 (talk) 02:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * So, in addition to the adjusting the wording in relation to the Kansas basketball team, that fact should be noted in the basketball articles for those two schools as well. →Wordbuilder (talk) 19:12, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, I just finished doing that and checked my watchlist to see your comment. Grey Wanderer | Talk 19:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I checked right before I posted. Our editing must have "crossed in the mail". →Wordbuilder (talk) 19:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. I may add more context later on, but i'm content for now as to how and where to present the information.Ryan2845 (talk) 19:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Big 12 WikiProject
I'm trying to gauge the interested in created a Big 12 WikiProject and wondering who would like to be involved. There are already pages for WikiProject Big Ten and WikiProject ACC. A Big 12 project would cover the schools themselves and anything to do with conference sports including: events, rivalries, teams, seasons, championships and lore. There is already quite a bit of activity here on Wikipedia regarding the Big 12, and I think a project could help coordinate and unify our efforts. Please see WikiProject Council/Proposals/Big 12 if you are interested, and add your name to the list. Grey Wanderer (talk) 00:26, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

History
I just wanted to add a quick blurb here alerting you guys that I made some major updates to the history parts of this article and I wanted to preempt any accusations of motive (particularly this week noting I'm a Mizzou alum.) There seems to be a perennial problem on this page, the border war page, and the Missouri Tigers page of whitewashing history related to Bleeding Kansas, the Border Ruffians, and term Jayhawk. This problem has not carried over to the non-athletic pages related to these items. The civil war was a horrendously violent thing and it deserves to be portrayed honestly. The history of the border war and mascot don't loose any of their potency just because their origins were a little dubious. I'm highly indebted to whoever researched the Jayhawker origins, it saved me a lot of time scrounging up references. Speaking of references, there is some good reading there if you're in to that sort of thing. Grey Wanderer (talk) 01:24, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I fixed the date on the history of Osceola asking KU to change their mascot and someone went back and "fixed" it to the incorrect date again and then of course blamed me for vandalism.

The current article says "In September 1861, the town of Osceola, Missouri, burned to the ground by Jayhawkers during the Sacking of Osceola, asked the University of Kansas to remove the Jayhawk as its mascot.[5][6"

I changed 1861 to 2011 because 1861 is wrong. The town of Osceola was burned in 1861, but the date in this sentence is referring to the date that Osceola asked KU to change there mascot. And since KU wasn't around in 1861 that would be impossible. The correct date is Sept. 2011. Yes the town burned in 1861, but this is not referring to that. All it takes is a simple English understanding to figure that out. I am changing it back again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.4.193.2 (talk) 15:16, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Links to college sports
The links at the top of the page go to the wiki articles explaining the sports themselves. Wouldn't it be better if the links went to the Jayhawk teams that participated in these sports? The elephant (talk) 21:38, 21 July 2012 (UTC)