Talk:Kanye West/Archive 7

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2016
Where is the support for that claim at the start that "West is one of the most acclaimed musicians of the 21st century"?

Phuzzyday (talk) 06:33, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * per WP:LEADCITE, the intro of an article tends to not have that many citations, as the information there is a summary of the rest of the article and will be repeated in greater detail later on. Look at the Kanye West section if you're looking for sources. Cannolis (talk) 10:38, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

There is no support for this claim. At best, as cited in Kanye West, you have cited that he is tied for 10th in "Most Grammys Won". This is not the same as the lead section claims. It should be clarified, or even better, specified.


 * The inline support that's been added, from a Guardian article, is a typical piece of overstated showbiz journalism fluff. The writer set out to show how Kanye went from being a big star to being very "reviled" and controversial (the guy's always courted controversy) and to give his narrative greater punch, he styles Kanye as "one of the most acclaimed" of recent musicians. Stardom and news headline power aren't the same as being a "highly acclaimed musician". It would be okay to state that Kanye is one of the post-2000 musicians who have received a high number of corporate awards; the grammies and MTV awards are basically back-scratching from the music corporations and popular music media for their own big sellers. It's more about visibility and sales than about being a musician.83.251.170.27 (talk) 14:45, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Not really a "Good Article" in its current form
I'm not sure if it still qualifies as "Good Article" considering some references that are cited in the article are still completely broken. Someone should fix that. 100.37.25.224 (talk) 00:45, 15 February 2016 (UTC)


 * WP:Dead links are not a reason to demote an article, especially considering how common dead links are. You need to give better reasons than that, like too much WP:Peacock wording or something. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 05:54, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

How could a promotion text like this article be a "good"? It's like Kanye has written it by himself.

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2016
Please can you update this to confirm that Kayne West owes 54M dollars and is begging people to invest 1BN dollars (!) in Kanye Ideas (ha ha ha)

80.36.166.60 (talk) 15:31, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 18:34, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2016
Kanye West founded the record Label GOOD MUSIC" 

Gminder (talk) 03:43, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --allthefoxes (Talk) 03:58, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

LOSER.com
lol! Courtesy of (troll) Brian Connelly, the target is off Donald J Trump and here its redirection returns, as reported in Daily Mail. Sneekily, their journalist link directly at this article, tricking readers thinking they were following link in story (fooled me) and thus minimise new visitors to a not so busy kind of Easter egg domain. --92.29.90.198 (talk) 06:21, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Poverty For Kanye
53 Million in debt and this a-hole is asking for money on the internet. #PovertyForKanye https://www.gofundme.com/povertyforkanye should be included in the article. 20:39, 18 February 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.232.174.154 (talk)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2016
I suggest you remove the statement which says that this guy is 'one of the most acclaimed artists...' That's a crock. He not only is a pathetic musician he knows little about music. thank you.

69.26.70.182 (talk) 18:21, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: This is not a forum for your persona views on this person.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 20:24, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Kanye West. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080927173005/http://www.eonline.com:80/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=44415a2b-7481-45f8-91a3-630b0b5510de&entry=index to http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=44415a2b-7481-45f8-91a3-630b0b5510de&entry=index
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20151019175848/http://www.nytimes.com/blogs/artsbeat/2013/09/02/kanye-west-sings-at-kazakh-wedding/ to http://www.nytimes.com/blogs/artsbeat/2013/09/02/kanye-west-sings-at-kazakh-wedding/
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20111013093140/http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart_watch/74378/week-ending-june-22-2011-bad-teenage-dreams/;_ylt=AiiLt2CITScuJC_I4Ps6KHAPwiUv to http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart_watch/74378/week-ending-june-22-2011-bad-teenage-dreams/;_ylt=AiiLt2CITScuJC_I4Ps6KHAPwiUv

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Mentioning marriage to Kim Kardashian in the lead

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Regarding this and this, GC16 and I have been back and forth on this issue. He feels that West's marriage to Kardashian should be in the lead. I feel that, per WP:Lead, it should not be there since it is not one of the most significant aspects of the article/topic. I stated that this is not like a Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie matter, where the relationship/marriage should be noted in the lead. West's mother's death is more significant to the article than his marriage to Kardashian. Furthermore, the marriage is clearly there in the infobox and fits nowhere in the lead. Last time I stated that West's marriage to Kardashian is not WP:Lead material, GC16 added the following to the Personal life section: "The couple's high status and respective careers have resulted in their relationship becoming subject to heavy media coverage; The New York Times referred to their marriage as 'a historic blizzard of celebrity.'"

Despite that addition, I still don't see West's marriage to Kardashian as something that should be in the lead. GC16 also added the marriage to the lead of the Kim Kardashian article, and I don't feel it belongs there either, but, given that Kardashian does not have nearly as many accomplishments as West, it makes more sense for the marriage to be mentioned in the lead of her article than it does for it to be mentioned in the lead of this one. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:59, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

___


 * For a contemporary figure like West, it seems to me like the proper approach would be to summarize him generally as a figure, of course as extrapolated from the article but also conscious of what information makes sense in a lead and what doesn't—something like his mom's death wouldn't really be relevant, but something like his current high-profile marriage to one of the most famous media stars in the world seems like it should. Regarding "significant aspects": his fashion collaborations with brands like APC or Louis Vuitton doesn't really take up any more space in the article than mentions of Kardashian, and yet it's included—rightly I would say, because it provides a helpful and general overview of his fashion work. Regarding the Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie matter—neither of their respective pages really have much writing specifically devoted to their marriage either. Things like relationship generally get screened out in terms of career facts when it comes to Wikipedia sources, as there's not usually much to say besides "they got married and there was buzz." I don't see why that would make it less basic a fact for the lead—I mean, West's stint in art school, his founding of GOOD Music and DONDA, and his birthday are mentioned in the lead as well, and they're not exactly discussed at length in the article.....


 * I do wonder if "Kardashian does not have nearly as many accomplishments as West" is a hint to your antipathy to including her—a feeling that she's somehow an embarrassing blight you'd rather keep away from Kanye's lead. Otherwise, she's literally one of the most powerful media figures in the world, and getting married to her and then keeping her relationship a big part of your music career (including her in music videos, referring to her by name in his songs and in social media often) is substantial enough to be included. GC16 02:02, 14 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I think it's appropriate, it's only one sentence, fits well in the paragraph and just the other day Stephen Hawking said he wants to be on the Kardashian's show. Raquel Baranow (talk) 03:22, 14 April 2016 (UTC)


 * GC16, per WP:Lead, minor aspects, or aspects not well-covered lower in the article, usually shouldn't be in the lead. So I am for removing any of it from the lead. In the case of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, there is significant content in their Wikipedia articles regarding their relationship, not just their marriage. Any by "significant content," I mean the scandal, media attention, their power as a couple, and their children. If there was significantly more on West and Kardashian's relationship lower in the article, I wouldn't mind her being mentioned in the lead. But in all cases thus far, I dislike the flow of where you placed the marriage material in the lead. The lead flows much better without it, and does not need it.


 * Regarding your assertion that I am likely biased against Kardashian, I considered that you would argue something like that (especially after witnessing the arguments between you and Rodericksilly about personal beliefs regarding what belongs in this article), but you are wrong. When I stated "Kardashian does not have nearly as many accomplishments as West," it had to do with the fact that his Wikipedia article is bigger because of his accomplishments and that there is therefore a lot more to consider when it comes to crafting the lead of his Wikipedia article. I have no strong feelings about Kim Kardashian, other than the fact that I don't see how she is yet lead material for this article. And I am not even a Kanye West fan. On Wikipedia, I do what I can to remain objective, which, to me, means following this site's rules and with WP:Common sense. And given that she is right there in the infobox for everyone to clearly see, there is no hiding her anyway. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 06:51, 14 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Raquel Baranow, I don't see how the Kardashian content fits well there.


 * Below, I've started a WP:RfC on this matter. Others might agree with you both. Let's wait for other commentary. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 06:51, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

____

RfC: Lead material?
Opinions are needed on whether or not material about West's marriage to Kim Kardashian, seen here, belongs in the lead. If seeing this from the RfC page or your talk page via an RfC alert, the discussion on the matter can be found above at Talk:Kanye West. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 06:51, 14 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Support mention. Kardashian should be in the lead before Bush or Swift.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:56, 15 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Support mention agree, as per above. GC16 (GC16) 22:09, 15 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Question: Is the nature of the debate over whether that statement seems like WP:Original research? Because, the nature of the figures involved here suggests that this statement must be true, but it still might be WP:SYNTH if we're not relying on a secondary source discussing their fame.  Which, honestly, I should expect those exist as well. But do we have one that we're working from here, or just a presumption that this is such a non-controversial statement which, it doesn't run afoul of WP:V.  Or is the question altogether different--that is, one of whether WP:WEIGHT suggests the marriage has a place int he lead.  If the latter, then yes, I don't see why the marriage wouldn't be prominent enough to bear mentioning in the lead; I'm about the opposite of an expert on these celebrities, but I don't doubt a significant number and proportion of our sources for this article mention the marriage. If the question is whether the specific statement about marriage being a media lightning-rod is verifiable, I'm more ambivalent, especially if there is no secondary source.  Not ruling it out as the rare "self-evident" fact, but would be happier with a source.  S n o w  let's rap 04:50, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree with Snow Rise's pointers. FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  12:52, 22 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Snow Rise and FoCuSandLeArN (FoCuS), no, the dispute is not about WP:Original research. That policy is about whether a source exists for content rather than content being unsourced. There are clearly enough sources acknowledging the marriage. As for the "His marriage to television personality Kim Kardashian has also been subject to widespread media coverage." sentence, I would say that the media aspect of it is supported by what is in the Personal life section. The dispute is about whether or not mentioning that West is married to Kardashian is WP:Lead material or even needed when one considers that it's noted in the infobox. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 06:10, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for clarifying. I personally don't think the fact is all that out-of-place in the lead, especially given the wife in question attracts vast amounts of media attention, as I understand it.  I'm not sure its an earth-shattering difference in any event, but I do think its probably salient enough for the lead.  S n o w  let's rap 06:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Support mention To me, encyclopedic value is all about notability, and I'd say that West's marriage is one of the most notable things about him. Obviously behind his efforts in music, but not too far behind.  There are absolutely people who know West as a celebrity and Kim Kardashian's husband before or more than they know him as a rapper.--MichaelProcton (talk) 15:02, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * That seems like 4 support votes, vs the one anti—do we need more votes for this to at least warrant inclusion for the time being? GC16 03:21, 3 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Since you made this edit to make the addition flow better, I don't mind it as much now. Thanks. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 10:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Narcissism
I know I'm risking a ban by saying this, but isn't it at least fair to write about his narcissism? It's become his trademark and here we're not even mentioning it because of neutrality. To be honest, that's a great disservice to anyone who wants to learn about Wests career and personality. --213.127.198.146 (talk) 09:36, 14 April 2016 (UTC)


 * How do you propose we write about it? Are the massive sections on his media/award show scandals and his legacy, and the clear reference to his controversial and "outspoken views" in the lead, not substantial enough? Are you proposing we start a section on West's psychological profile? Do equally narcissistic figures like Noel Gallagher have any such sections? I mean.... GC16 22:08, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2016
2605:6001:E099:7D00:1D4A:54B4:C65:A7C0 (talk) 00:52, 19 April 2016 (UTC)hi
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Blank request —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 05:45, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2016
Please replace ') "He is among the most acclaimed musicians of the 21st century..." with he 'is a rapper.'  West is in no way the most acclaimed musician when most people cannot name an album.  Did he change to that?

68.15.144.139 (talk) 19:57, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The claim is supported by multiple sources. /wiae /tlk  20:12, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

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Lack of singing ability
Perhaps there ought to be a section documenting Kanye West's lack of singing ability. Here's a link to a video demonstrating his inability to sing in tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwN6dPNXklg

John Link (talk) 16:11, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Youtube isn't a reliable source. FiendYT   ★  00:28, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

unorthodox stage bit
it is known that kanye eats alot of beans before a show and at the end of a random song he farts into the mic for 1 minute — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.159.58.34 (talk) 18:53, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Kayne West and synesthesia
I didn't see anything on the page, but with an interview with Ellen, Kanye expressed that he has synethesia. 2001:569:791F:AA00:DDBC:DECF:E391:5253 (talk) 17:23, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2016
I suggest you add a section dedicated to the hype built around Kanye's unreleased but leaked songs. Songs such as Mama's Boyfriend (related to the MBDTF Era) and Black Bruce Wayne have their own unique stories on where they came from and where they might end up. I think bringing light to the leaked songs that bring the most buzz would be a good read and relevant to his career.

ZeroDaVinci (talk) 20:55, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. st170e talk 21:11, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Disruptive edits
Can I please can some help with the continuous disruptive editing of User:Ajax1995? He is persistently removing whole swathes of sourced and relevant information without any talk page consensus. GC16 16:50, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey Neil N , Tpdwkouaa, and User:Dr.K.—seeing as you guys all clearly see that the editor is acting disruptively out of guidelines and removing sourced content, could any of you help revert him so that my reversions don't appear to be an isolated side of the editing war it's being made into? I'd prefer some help keeping the page proper to the oblique administrator warnings or whatever. GC16 17:10, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I've restored the page. Any more bold attempts at cleanup or restoration should be discussed here first. Thank you all for being civil. Tpdwkouaa (talk) 18:03, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 8 August 2016
I originally expanded this "Musical style" section by drawing on sources and material from the individual pages of West's albums, but the section now strikes me as overlong and too detailed. As such, I've attempted to scale it down a bit, remove unnecessary detail, and make it a more general overview of West's work.

The shortened version looks like this:
 * Padlock-bronze-open.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. nyuszika7h (talk) 17:16, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Artistry
West's musical career has been defined by frequent stylistic shifts, and has seen him develop and explore a variety of different musical approaches and genres. When asked about his early musical inspirations, he has named artists such as A Tribe Called Quest, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, George Michael, LL Cool J, Phil Collins and Madonna. West was formatively mentored by Chicago producer No I.D., who introduced him to hip hop production in the early 1990s, allowing a teenage West to sit in on recording sessions. Early in his career, West pioneered a style of production dubbed "chipmunk soul" which utilized pitched-up vocal samples, usually from soul and R&B songs, along with his own drums and instrumentation. His first major release featuring his trademark soulful vocal sampling style was "This Can't Be Life", a track from Jay-Z's The Dynasty: Roc La Familia. West has noted Wu-Tang Clan producer RZA as an influence on his style. West further developed his style on his 2004 debut album, The College Dropout. After a rough version was leaked, he meticulously refined the production, adding string arrangements, gospel choirs, and improved drum programming. The album saw West diverge from the then-dominant gangster persona in hip hop in favor of more diverse, topical lyrical subjects including higher education, excessive materialism, self-consciousness, minimum-wage labor, institutional prejudice family, sexuality, and personal struggles.



For his second album, Late Registration (2005), he collaborated with film score composer Jon Brion and drew influence from non-rap influences such as English trip hop group Portishead. Blending West's primary soulful hip hop production with Brion's elaborate chamber pop orchestration, the album experimentally incorporated a wide array of different genres and prominent orchestral elements, including string arrangements, piano chords, brass flecks, and horn riffs, amid a myriad of foreign and vintage instruments. Critic Robert Christgau wrote that "there's never been hip-hop so complex and subtle musically." With his third album, Graduation (2007), West moved away from the soulful sound of his previous releases and towards a more atmospheric, rock-tinged, electronic-influenced style, drawing on European Britpop and Euro-disco, American alternative and indie-rock, and his native Chicago house. West retracted much of the live instrumentation that characterized his previous album and replaced it with distorted, gothic synthesizers, rave stabs, house beats, electro-disco rhythms, and a wide array of modulated electronic noises and digital audio-effects. In addition, West drew musical inspiration from arena rock bands such as The Rolling Stones, U2, and Led Zeppelin. In comparison to previous albums, Graduation is more introspective, exploring West's own fame and personal issues.

808s & Heartbreak (2008), marked a radical departure from his previous releases, largely abandoning rap and hip hop stylings in favor of a emotive, stark electropop sound composed utilizing the Roland TR-808 drum machine, the Auto-Tune vocal processor, and virtual synthesis technology. Engaging with themes of alienation and heartache, West's minimalist, austere production juxtaposed the electronic sound of his Auto-Tuned vocals and the distorted 808 drum machine with droning synthesizers, lengthy strings, somber piano, and tribal rhythms. The album drew comparisons to the work of 1980s post-punk and new wave groups; West would confess an affinity with artists such as Joy Division, Gary Numan, and TJ Swan and later described 808s as "the first black new wave album." Discussing the album's influence on subsequent hip hop and R&B music, Rolling Stone journalist Matthew Trammell described 808s as "Kanye's most vulnerable work, and perhaps his most brilliant." West recorded his fifth album, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (2010), with a wide range of collaborators. The album engages with themes of excess, celebrity, and decadence, has been noted by writers for its maximalist aesthetic and its incorporation of elements from West's previous four albums. Entertainment Weekly's Simon Vozick-Levinson noted that such elements "all recur at various points", namely "the luxurious soul of 2004's The College Dropout, the symphonic pomp of Late Registration, the gloss of 2007's Graduation, and the emotionally exhausted electro of 2008's 808s & Heartbreak." AllMusic's Andy Kellman views it as the "culmination" of those albums, while noting that "it does not merely draw characteristics from each one of them. The 13 tracks ... sometimes fuse them together simultaneously." Describing his sixth studio album Yeezus (2013) as "a protest to music," West embraced an abrasive style that incorporated a variety of unconventional influences. Music critic Greg Kot described it as "a hostile, abrasive and intentionally off-putting" album that combines "the worlds of" 1980s acid-house and contemporary Chicago drill music, 1990s industrial music, and the "avant-rap" of Saul Williams, Death Grips and Odd Future. The album also incorporates elements of trap music, as well as dancehall, punk, and electro. Inspired by the minimalist design of Le Corbusier and primarily electronic in nature, and continues West's practice of eclectic and unusual samples. Rolling Stone called the album a "brilliant, obsessive-compulsive career auto-correct". West's seventh album The Life of Pablo was noted for its "raw, occasionally even intentionally messy, composition" in distinction to West's previous album. Rolling Stone wrote that "It's designed to sound like a work in progress." Carl Wilson of Slate characterized the album as creating "strange links between Kanye's many iterations—soul-sample enthusiast, heartbroken Auto-Tune crooner, hedonistic avant-pop composer, industrial-rap shit-talker." West initially characterized the release as "a gospel album." Greg Kot of the Chicago Tribune wrote in his review of The Life of Pablo, "West's version of gospel touches on some of those sonic cues — heavy organ, soaring choirs — but seems more preoccupied with gospel text and the notion of redemption."

GC16 18:19, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

comments

 * This is what the section currently looks like. I'm not sure about cutting it so extensively. My suggestion would be to revert it to the state it was in before you drastically altered it and then add in a little of what you added. Either way, I don't think that the following parts should be removed: "West has named Puff Daddy as the "most important cultural figure" in his life, and he has also described David Bowie as one of his "most important inspirations." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:04, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * If I remember correctly, the section before I got to it was woefully devoid of information, with the half of it discussing RZA's influence on West's early sampling style and the rest covering an inane list of contemporary bands West had professed to be a fan of. I'm confused, then, about your suggestion that this reversion would be too extensive a removal of info, but that starting with the original (lacking) version would be a better idea. That would be ridiculously little information to add to!


 * The David Bowie/Puff reference doesn't directly say anything about a musical influence, they just seem to be two figures West is generally inspired by—that kind of info isn't directly pertinent to an overview of West's music. The other artists mentioned are invoked explicitly as musical inspirations. GC16 04:13, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I suggested a reversion because you often add too much detail to this article, as you seem to acknowledge above. I haven't yet looked at the previous version to see what was there, but I know that this article was already WP:GA status before you began adding to it and that I have reverted you at times for adding WP:Weasel wording and the like. If the above version that you propose is better than the previous version, okay then.


 * As for David Bowie/Puff Daddy, as you know, you discussed the Bowie aspect extensively on my talk page with another editor. You added the Puff Daddy aspect to seemingly balance out or rather counter the Bowie piece. When I read either piece, it is clear to me that West is stating that those two had a musical influence on him. If you want to remove both pieces, I'm not going to challenge you on it. I'm not that interested in debating it.


 * Let's also keep in mind that the text you propose states, "When asked about his early musical inspirations, he has named artists such as A Tribe Called Quest, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, George Michael, LL Cool J, Phil Collins and Madonna." So, yeah, it seems hella relevant to me to include his "most important cultural figure" and "one of his 'most important inspirations"...when it comes to his take on Puff Daddy and David Bowie. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:46, 12 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Re: my edits—when I came to the page, it was devoid of any discussion of his art (beyond that poor excuse for a "style" section), his musical and cultural influence, legacy, and critical acclaim (all of which obv seem a massive part of his significance as a cultural figure), and essentially stuck to a bare bio and then an exhaustive list of his controversies. Recent sections of his bio also seemed very lacking in basic information. The lead seemed inadequate to the article. So irrespective of its "good article" status it seemed pretty emaciated to me, and a bit non-neutral considering the sheer amount of adulating praise and ink West's gotten over the years. A bit of purplish prose in the meantime was just a byproduct of trying to balance things out.


 * Re:Bowie/Puff—again. I was attempting to scale down the section considerably and got rid of anything that seemed potentially ancillary, and considering the Puff quote refers to him as a cultural (not musical) figure and the Bowie bit was literally derived from one solitary tweet picked out from a 12 year career of West openly listing his inspirations, they didn't seem like they were terribly important. If you still want to include those bits (which I would still potentially be open to), it would only make sense for us to also include West's constant references to cultural figures like Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, and Michael Jackson as massive inspirations. Besides, Bowie is compared to West later in the legacy section, which I think carries much more informational weight. GC16 16:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree with Flyer22 Reborn, but I would add that I'm surprised Michael Jackson's influence on him isn't already mentioned in the article. Don't we have any good sources for that? As for Bowie, when Bowie died, lots of people paid tribute with comments like "RIP.. he had lots of good songs, sorry to see him gone" etc. but West specifically stated he was an "important inspiration" for him, which is why I felt it was significant enough for this article. Rodericksilly (talk) 14:09, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * This is what the article looked like before you first edited it. I'm not seeing the "pretty emaciated" and "a bit non-neutral" article that you saw, and the lead was quite healthy. That stated, I agree that you improved the article...despite going overboard with the praise aspects. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:57, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah thanks, you're right, it wasn't quite as bare as I remembered it, but it still definitely looks a bit thin and neglected compared to the pages of other comparably big artists—the legacy section isn't really a coherent thing, the musical style section is as bad as I said it was, feels like lots of it was hobbled together from different editors without much unification... also, anyone have a clue when this page is getting unlocked? And do I have support to throw the above edit up when it does, pending some additions or changes? GC16 20:10, 14 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't object. How about you, Rodericksilly? Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:04, 16 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what comparing himself to Walt Disney, Steve Jobs and Picasso has got to do with a section on his "musical style". That isn't as clear as it used to be when it was identifying music artists he was inspired by. Rodericksilly (talk) 20:40, 16 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Very good point; those pieces should be removed, and you and I both agree that the Puff Daddy and David Bowie pieces should stay. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC)