Talk:Kara Thrace/Archive 1

A Cylon?
I have a "theory" involving Starbuck. I believe that her big "destiny" was to die, then to appear as a vision to Apollo, like Baltar-Six claims to be an "angel from God." She is like that and her vision is going to lead the Colonials, or whatever is left of them after the Five Cylon Baseships anihalate them, to Earth. Sith Penguin Lord 00:54, 28 March 2007 (UTC)02:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I've seen third season finale and I don't think there's any evidence or suggestion that Kara is a Cylon. I think this sould not be present as a "true" fact on the article. This is pure speculation. 131.246.120.30 21:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. While most evidence would indicate that she is one of the final five, in an interview the producer is very vague and says that the last Cylon will be revealed next season, implying that it is NOT Starbuck. 69.249.245.105 21:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Back with the Fleet - remove speculation yet again - nothing says for certain she's a Cylon so quit adding it - you can't add speculation only facts!


 * You're right of course -- speculation has no place in the article proper, but the discussion here is a different matter -- as your posts here prove. Based on facts presented in the season, there are 3 possible for CYLON 12: Baltar, Kara, and (surprise) Admiral Adama!  All of these characters have been shown experiencing the dues-ex-machinea abilities that the Cylons have demonstrated.  Each of them has been shown in an episode experiencing a personal interacting with a person who appears in a scene but exists only in their mind!   This phenomenon has been a core element of Baltar's story from the beginning of the series and the fact that these others are experiencing it casts suspicion in their direction.  Supposedly, only one remains unidentified, but as there is no knowledge of the final five's activities, it's possible that they have produced models 13 and 14.  We'll just have to wait and see how the next season develops to find out -- not that I'm interested. -- Jason Palpatine 07:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC) This user is a fan of the original Battlestar Galactica, but is absolutely NOT a fan of The Young And The Restless Of All My Children In Search Of The Guiding Light As The World Turns On The Edge Of Night All The Days Of Our Lives At General Hospital With Only One Life To Live In Space.


 * Well, even Roslin could be a Cylon, considering she was sharing dreams with caprica six and athena. I'd guess we won't know who is the last Cylon model until the very end of the series. And, by the way, I don't think there are a 13th and 14th model. It's stated somewhere in the series by the first seven models to Baltar that only 12 models exist. 131.246.120.30 16:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * True -- that was stated in the pilot and many other times. However, anything is possible.  We don't know what the writers are planning next.  The possibility that the final five may have endeavoured to produce a new line of models is a possibility that may be in development.  Remember -- the 7 Cylons that Baltar dealt with expressed a reluctance to even discuss the them.   Six's demeanor when Baltar asked about them bordered on revulsion.  Perhaps there was some sort of scism between the 7 and the 5 resulting in the 5 leaving to undertake their own agenda.  We don't know enough about what's going on.  Look at the situation: how can the Cylons not know what the 5 look like?   These people are manufactured on a production line, just like The Terminator.  It would stand to reason that they would know their appearnces, but they don't. -- Jason Palpatine 16:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Really? Refresh my memory as to what episode revealed the "production line" aspect of the Cylons' manufacturing process. As a related aside, the schism theory is too simplistic to be taken seriously. What the hell kind of "difference of opinion" would result in having one sect of models to completely remove all knowledge of the other five? There's something more going on with the Final Five than common political bullshit. --Bacteria 07:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Kara Thrace is not a Cylon... exactly. She's a Human / Cylon hybrid. Her father is the Daniel model, the boxed #7 and destroyed series of Cylons.  Human / Cylon hybrids have a genetic memory, which explains why Hera could write out the music, why Kara could play it, and why she drew those paintings of the Eye of Jupiter.  It explains her death in Maelstrom, her Viper ruins and body on Earth, and much more.  She resurrected and is being used by Cavil, first for the way to Earth which he knew was useless.  Her Viper is a beacon, which is why Boomer knew where to jump with Ellen Tigh.  He wiped part of her memory after her ressurection and reprogrammed it.  Her absence of a few months was the time needed to build the new Viper. Jclinard (talk) 07:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

No way. If a #7 was unboxed it would be younger than #6 and older than #8 - way too young to be her father. Ellen was in the bar where he was playing piano - wouldn't she have seen him and recognized him? Not to mention the fact that he disappeared into thin air when Tigh and the others came up behind them. Much more plausible that he is a seraph and she is some kind of human/seraph hybrid that is now full seraph after her "death". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 20.132.64.141 (talk) 17:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Kara's father was never in the bar playing the piano, he was a projection on Kara's part. That's why nobody noticed him, particularly Ellen who would have known.  Her projection was how she remembered him, as a man of that age.  209.210.150.61 (talk) 23:29, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

eek spoiler
can someone chuck a spoiler tag on this page? I don't know how to do it myself, but it needs one. 82.13.83.244 01:14, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

to start and to end Sith Penguin Lord 00:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC)02:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * why does it need a spoiler tag? Anyone with any brains knows that if they read an article or discussion page on Wiki about a TV series they may very well see spoliers. Wiki is fast becoming a nanny state. 86.21.12.202 (talk) 01:46, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Focus
This article should probably be refocused on more than the fictional biography - as the intro points out, making Starbuck a female character was tremendously controversial, with Dirk Benedict bitterly condemning it. She really went from being one of the most hated to one of the most loved BSG characters. All of which is more encyclopedic than her fictional biography. 24.136.38.121 17:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Season 3 spoiler
The reason Leoben comes looking for Starbuck is pretty clearly stated in the trailer (and also blazingly obvious, but ignore that) but I'd still feel weird about putting in a spoiler that's yet to happen. Should I? Stilgar135 03:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I do not believe her to be one of the final five... I do think she survives the explosion... I think she did eject in time and there was a cylon ship there to rescue her with Leoben in it.

The name of the child
In the article, the child's name is spelled "Kacey" and "Casey". Is there an official spelling available? It should be found, and the article made consistent. 209.217.82.98 13:15, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * She is credited as "Kacey" in the end-credits of every episode she appears in.

Identity of Child
In the main article, it states that upon returning to Galactica Thrace learns that Kacey is not her child. This is an oversight, and the child's identity is still a mystery. The Loeben Cylon states in Part 1 that Thrace's ovum was obtained by the Cylons during her incarceration on "the Farm", but he goes on to state that THE CHILD WAS BROUGHT TO TERM BY ANOTHER WOMAN. Hence, Thrace's distress when the Kacey's mother sees her is not due to some realization that the Cylons tricked her, it is that EITHER the Cylons tricked her into loving a child she thought was her own -- a half-Cylon child she has grown to love -- or the child is really her's, in the sense that the child bears her DNA and developed out of her ovum; either way the situation sends her into purgatory, since when she reflects on it, there is no denying that she grew to love Kacey. If it is a lie, then the Cylons tricked her and humiliated her, nearly domesticating her; if it is not a lie, they used her as a lab rat. Further, Thrace can never be a mother to the child, because the other woman, not understanding the ovum which produced Kacey was not her own, nevertheless carried Kacey to term, gave birth to her, and is in all other ways her true mother beyond Thrace having supplied the ovum sample while the Cylons had her sedated at the Farm. Until they do a DNA test of the child, it will remain uncertain as to whether or not Kacey is the biological daughter of Thrace. 67.70.50.19 16:58, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The birth mother in Leoben's story died. Also, such a birth mother would have had the child in a Cylon farm on Caprica and thus would know something was different about her, at the very least. -- Noneofyourbusiness 02:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Is/Was
Please keep in mind that when writing about characters and events in fiction, it is appropriate always to use present tense -- even for a character who in one episode dies. <-note present tense there --EEMeltonIV 04:36, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Isn't that a little pedantic? 86.21.12.202 (talk) 01:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

NPOV
I remind editors who add to this article to use an encyclopedic tone. Some of the last few entries have been, shall we say, excessively fannish in their style. CovenantD 05:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Dead or not?
We do not actually know that she is dead. Leoben said he was coming for her, we saw her hand on the ejector seat, all we saw was the viper detonate in the storm. I think we should update the last sentence to reflect this ambiguity. - Count23 08:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Leoben never said he was coming for her. They are. It could have meant the afterlife or it could have meant the cylons.Palewook 12:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Notice that before her ship blew up as she was in the cockpit she was surrounded by a very bright white light. Notice the similarity with the Ship_of_Lights from TOS. A similar plotline could develop here. Nodekeeper 21:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Since many of the BSG characters appear to be drawn around mythology, there is a thread of thought that follows the re-imagined Starbuck character is based on the Valkyrie Kára who is/was the result of reincarnation. If so, Starbuck is dead and Kára the reincarnation. If the writers put this much energy into continuity then it would also explain the change in Starbuck/Kára's personality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandifop (talk • contribs) 17:29, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Maelstrom/Kara's death
The section I wrote on "Maelstrom" may be too long, although it certainly is an important episode for her, to say the least.

I am certain Kara died, she didn't "presumably" or probably die; on the podcast Ronald D. Moore explicitly said that the episode was about 'the death of Kara Thrace'. --Filippo Argenti 03:41, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

There really appears to be no question on the episode in question. Her ship explodes with her inside. --HarmonicSphere 04:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * And for all we know she's a Cylon :) I've rewritten it reflect what it actually known, that Apollo saw her Viper explode. (Personally, I can't image them getting rid of Katee.) One note, Filippo Argenti; when writing about fiction, guidelines are to use present tense - is instead of was, understands instead of understood, that sort of thing. Not a big deal, but something to keep in mind for the future. CovenantD 05:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

What you have rewritten is your opinion. you have changed the facts of what Moore says in his podcast and what Katee Sackhoff says in her post maelstrom interview.Palewook 12:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm really not good with grammar, I apologize for any mistakes in that area. However, I am fairly certain that Starbuck is dead. As I said, Moore explicitly said in the podcast that the episode was about Kara's death, and he mentioned that he and David Eick had a talk with Katee Sackoff about the fact that they were killing off her character.... and anyway, the idea of resurrecting a dead [or apparently dead] character flies in the face of the 'gritty realism' attitude of the re-imagined series [they didn't bring Kat back, did they?]

I'm hoping that didn't sound like an angry tirade, as it wasn't meant to be. Anyway, I've chosen not to edit what you [CovenantD] wrote, for the sake of not getting into an edit war, and because it is true for as far as it goes- apollo did see her viper explode. And, of coarse, any disagreement over whether or not Kara is dead will be resolved by whether Kara/Katee is on the show in the rest of season 3/season 4. --Filippo Argenti 02:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As you say, we'll see. I've learned it's best not to fall for the obvious answers when it comes to science fiction. Don't worry about the grammar; hundreds of editors don't know about the writing in the present tense for fiction, so correcting verbs is a never-ending process. CovenantD 02:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Inaccurate statement
Col. Tigh flips the table over, before Kara Thrace punches him in the face, not just before the decommissioning ceremony that opens the series, but much, much later, toward the end of Season 2. I'm not sure which episode it happened in, but it was toward the end of Season 2. I'll see if I can find out which one. --HarmonicSphere 04:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The scene you are talking about occurred in the Miniseries. 1Winston 18:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

gag reel?
any reason gag reel was placed in external links section? Palewook 12:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Serious Wikifying
For the record, this article needs to be wikified hardcore. Why is the entire article mainly one section with the other sections added as an afterthought. We need someone with more information on her character to edit this. // 3R1C 04:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I completely and utterly agree. Right now it reads like the exposition portion of a Starbuck fanfic. And I love Starbuck and I've been known to enjoy fic, so I'm not slamming it out of turn... but it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. I can't believe there's nothing here about the fan reaction to a "female Starbuck", no discussion of the impact on women in television this character might be making, and so on -- things that should comprise this article instead of a Kara Thrace recap. We need more than one person doing this though, so anyone got ideas where to start? --Hiraeth (talk) 04:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

BSG Characters with imaginary friends

 * Gaius Baltar (apparition looks like Caprica Six)
 * Caprica Six (apparition looks like Gaius Baltar)
 * Kara Thrace (apparition looks like Leoben Conoy)
 * William Adama (apparition looks like Carolanne Adama)


 * Carolanne is just part of Adama's imagination. She's no more part of the same company as the abovementioned three than any of the folks you converse with in your common daydreaming. --Bacteria 07:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, the aparation/seraph of Eloshia that appeared to Roselyn. And the aparation/seraph of Starbuck's father/piano player. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 20.132.64.141 (talk) 17:47, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

New details from finale
She is in fact alive, apollo goes to check out a weird signature on the radar and sees her. she tells him she has seen earth, and is going to show them the way. that is where the episode ends.(what a good cliff-hanger) First time on here btw Ghalhud 03:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Is she a Cylon and if so, should we mark her as one? Sith Penguin Lord 21:01, 26 March 2007 (UTC)(02:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually it's not quite clear even on the season 3 finale weather she is alive or dead. Apollo might just be seeing an image of her. Apollo did seem to be increasingly suffering from a nervous breakdown throughout that episode. We won't know for sure until season 4. Jon 18:24, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The article needs to drop mention of the fact that both Katee and Moore have terminated the inside-the-head theory. It remains the only bit of speculation on her return that has been officially addressed, and therefore the only thing that should be mentioned. When we have officially identified she as a Cylon, then we mark as such. Until then (if), we keep the original research to ourselves. --Bacteria 07:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Razor spoilers
Ok, so what exactly does it mean that's she's going to "lead the human race to its end" or whatever? Does that mean that Humanity is screwed if they follow her, or it means that it's going to be the end of the current era of humanity and the beginning of a new one? I can't see Starbuck suddenly turning out to be evil.


 * Uncertain. According to the Cylons, everything has happened before, and will happen again. If it take time-warp theories to fulfill it, then Starbuck is leading humanity to the reset point; where Cylon and man are ultimately destoyoed... except for twelve. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jclinard (talk • contribs) 14:52, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I doubt she'd knowingly lead them to their doom, but that doesn't mean that she can't be tricked into it, or do it with good intentions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.14.80 (talk) 10:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Anyone considered that maybe the Hybrid was just talking nonsense? 86.21.12.202 (talk) 01:48, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Nope. The end of the current cycle.  She's leading the raptor pilots via briefings to a search for a habitable planet.  Once they find it, it may become New Kobol, and everything happens again.  Cavil may have made a mistake with Hera... she might be the weapon of destruction that destroys the Cylons, thus resetting everything.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jclinard (talk • contribs) 07:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC)