Talk:Karagöz and Hacivat

Potentially useful source
I've taken this from a stub to a decent start on an article. If someone wants to expand this further, Emin Senyer's multilingual site http://www.karagoz.net looks like a very good source, which I've only very minimally exploited. - Jmabel | Talk 17:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Turkish
an Arab who knows no Turkish
 * Ottoman or Turkish? Mallerd 13:48, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

The translation fault
The last link at the end of the page, the link to the movie page, is translated wrong. Turkish it's name is "Hacivat ve Karagöz Neden Öldürüldü?" which means "why were Hacivat and Karagöz killed?," not "who killed Hacivat and Karagöz".Not such a big thing, however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.126.21.5 (talk) 19:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Far fetched paragraph with no source
I'm removing this. --Mttll (talk) 14:59, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Not Merge
It can not be merge, because Karagöz is Turkish original, Karagiozis is the Greek version... Buzancar (talk) 13:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Merge

 * Support - the proposed merge seems to be common sense, since the names are the same and both articles cite that the character is not restricted to any one country. Ithinkicahn (talk) 07:38, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

The characters of Karagoz and Karagiozis are "the same" and that of Hacivat and Hadgiavatis. The rest of the stock characters in the repertoires of the Turkish and the Greek traditions are different.

Karagoz and Hacivat do not look at all like their Greek counterparts, Karagiozis and Hadjiavatis. Karagiozis has to have that distinctively long arm or he is not recognisable as Karagiozis. Similarly, Hadjiavatis must hold his beard. These are trademark features of the Greek puppets and very important indicators of a different heritage to that of Karagoz and Hacivat.

Karagoz and Hacivat were a permitted entertainment in the Ottoman Court. Greek traditions during the occupation went underground. This suggests that a pre-existing theatrical tradition was transformed into shadow puppetry to survive. Karagiozis humour is that of a satirist. Many of his jokes are at the expense of his Turkish overlords.

Instead of merging the two pages, the characteristics of their stock characters should be highlighted to demonstrate how different they are.

Another point of difference is that Karagoz and Hacivat shows were enjoyed in the Court. The influence of Plautus can be seen in the early scenarios. Karagiozis, however, is the ante hero of the people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crafty Theatre (talk • contribs) 02:26, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:07, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hacivat and Karagöz.jpg