Talk:Karate kata

Pov
This article was adapted from a series of kata articles found in Shotokan; naturally it gives a lot of weight to Shotokan karate right now. - JustSomeKid 01:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Format change
Anyone have objections to making this article list all of the kata (in one list), and then link to the Comparison of karate styles page with the differences between styles? The comparison page would have a table of kata vs style, with cells as yes2, no2, or some (some meaning some schools within the style teach it). This should make for a better layout with easier reading and comparison. --Scott Alter 06:17, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not put such table right here, in Karate kata? On Comparison of karate styles it would totally overpower everything else, and here it would be just on-topic. Oh, and to see just *how* overpowering it would be - check out the list of Shito-ryu katas on my web page, it shows which katas are recognized by three organizations within the style (that's three out of at least a dozen) --Cubbi 06:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it would go better on the comparison page because the table would be comparing the styles. The comparison page currently does not have much content, and how better to differentiate styles than by the kata practiced?  The table need not mention all possible names of the kata in all languages or its origins (this would be in the text).  It would just be a table of kata in rows with narrow columns of yes/no for several styles.  It would be placed beneath the existing table on the comparison page, as to not obfuscate the existing information.  I envision the article about karate kata as one that mentions each kata and the history behind it (with links to its main article - something equivalent to the list of kata/weapons at Okinawan kobudo).  Whether the table (which can easily be moved) would be on this page, the comparison page, or a page of its own, I would like the formatting to be one heading for each kata (or series) not broken down by style, and a separate table for comparison.  --Scott Alter 06:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the comparison page would be better served by naming one or several kata that are truly representative of the style. Some kata ( Seiyunchin, Seienchin, for example ) are practiced by ( for example ) both Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu but ( for example ) in WKF competition, Seienchin is a shitei ( compulsory ) kata only for Shito Ryu. For structure, I think both the kata page and the comparison page should link to pages describing the individual kata. jmcw 13:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * On the Comparison of karate styles page, I just changed the # of kata column to representative kata. Please fill in what you know to be representative of each style.  This should be more helpful, rather than an arbitrary number.  I will not begin to work on reorganizing this article into a table for at least another week.  --Scott Alter 22:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Using both WKF and WUKO competiton rules about required kata, I suggest the following:
 * Goju :	Seipai,	Saifa,	Gekisai Dai
 * Shotokan :	Heian,	Jion,	Kanku Dai
 * Shito :	Pinan,	Bassai Dai,	Seienchin,	Saifa
 * Wado :	Pinan,	Seishan,	Chinto
 * Shorin :	Pinan,	Naihanchi,	Fukyu
 * Uechi :	Kanshiva,	Kanshu,	Sechin,	Seryu
 * Kyokushinkai :	Pinan
 * Budokan :	Heian,	Taikyoku
 * I do not know all these styles/kata - it would be nice to involve someone from each style.jmcw 19:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Shito-ryu is about right. Bassai-dai and Seienchin are the shitei (required) kata for our style. In fact, here is the "SCHEDULE OF W.K.F. COMPULSORY (SHITEI) KATA" as copied from http://www.wkf.net/WKFRulesENG2005.zip
 * * Goju: Seipai, Saifa
 * * Shoto: Jion, Kanku Dai
 * * Shito: Bassai Dai, Seienchin
 * * Wado: Seishan, Chinto
 * as for Pinan aka Heian.. everyone has it. On the other end of the spectrum, there are kata absolutely specific for Shito-ryu because they were created by the style's founders, but they rarely appear at tournaments, so are hardly recognizable (Aoyagi, anyone?) --Cubbi 20:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I just created the table of styles by kata. To do this, the order of kata in a particular style had to be lost. The order of kata should probably go on the page of the specific style. Also, I merged series into one row. The articles on the kata series can go into detail about the individual kata in a series and variations between styles. Some of the rows of kata may be the same, but with different names in different styles. I tried to combine all of these, but if I missed any, please merge the rows. Also, I used some if the kata is not standard for all schools within a style. If there is a yes that should be a some, please change that as well. --Scott Alter 16:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I just matched a few kata with Yoshukai. This is from personal experience, and may need further validation.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.22.30.2 (talk) 16:31, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Reliable sources for the term dharmic religions?
Where are the reliable sources that use the term dharmic religions in the context of this article? Dharmic religions is a now deleted obscure neologism and should not be used throughout Wikipedia. Andries 15:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is not an obscure neologism. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If it is not an obscure neologism then it would be easy to provide multiple reliable sources books, peer reviewed articles etc. I am waiting. I am also waiting for use of the phrase in the context of this article. Andries 17:07, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I propose to use the alternative phrase Indian religions. The number of google scholar results for "Indian religions"+"Indian religion" is (45.600 + 84.200) while it is only (492+475) for "dharmic religions" +"dharmic religion" (492+475). See Deletion_review/Log/2007_September_8. Andries 19:21, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Couple of mistakes in here with Uechi
Just wanted to let you know. I tried to fix them, but the table is a bit messed up and it was a hassle.

Sanchin, Kanshiwa, Kanshu, Seichin, Seisan, Seirui, Kanchin, Sandairui. Bakarocket (talk) 16:48, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Wording
This article needs to be filtered. It should not read instructionally, only informatively. RCHM (talk) 18:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Suparinpei/Sanchin
The table shows Suparinpei as being performed in Shotokan. Some Shotokan karate-ka practice Sanchin but it is not an official Shotokan kata to my knowledge. Suparinpei seems to be very similar to Sanchin or maybe even the same so maybe this is why someone got confused. 86.25.247.93 (talk) 16:09, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Karate Proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Wikipedia:WikiProject Karate
Dear editors, I am proposing a new WikiProject Karate to bring together editors with knowledge of this martial art specifically, especially due to Karate becoming an Olympic sport I think it is time to focus energy on the roughly 3500 main space articles associated with Karate. Full description of the rationale and goals can be found at the link above, please comment, discuss (and join if you support this project!) All the best, Mountain cirque 08:50, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

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"Suparinpei is the Chinese pronunciation of the number 108" - is it?!
108 in Chinese is 一百八, pronounced yībǎi bā. This sounds nowhere near "suparinpei". Can someone add an explanation? Alxx~rowiki (talk) 11:10, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it is actually how it is pronounced in the Fouzhou dialect, there is no 'Chinese' language of course, they have a few dialects, some major and some smaller. I'll check the wording.

Mountaincirque talk 08:48, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Planned re-work
This article is a prime candidate for a re-work, there are a decent amount of references scattered across the tens of individual kata pages as well as academic books on the history of karate and kata. I think that a 'history of karate kata' / 'origin of kata' section can be greatly expanded upon firstly.

Some references claim that Seisan is one of the oldest karate kata for example, demonstrated by Aragaki Seisho in Okinawa, based on kung fu he had learned in Guangzhou. The table of katas by style also needs a lot of work and referencing, as it is basically just compiled on opinions at the moment. I think that there is scope to delineate between 'traditional' and 'modern' kata, for example with kata such as the Pinan/Heian series and Fukyugata/Gekisai series that were invented in the 20th century compared to many other kata being 19th century kata.

Please propose any sections or references that would be useful as we make these updates? I will add them here gradually myself also. Mountaincirque talk 12:05, 22 March 2022 (UTC)


 * - a great resource on Kata history, Pat McCarthy · 1987.  Mountaincirque talk 12:05, 22 March 2022 (UTC)