Talk:Karel Dežman

Bias
I think the lead and the article are biased in regard that they neglect Dežman's enormous achievements in archeology and natural history and emphasise him being viewed as a renegade. --Eleassar my talk 13:56, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point! I see two ways how to improve it: either we expand the lead to include his major scholarly achievements or we remove the mention of the political controversy associated with his name? I would rather opt for the first solution: unfortunately, in the 19th century - and beyond - his "changing sides" in the national dispute was more famous than his achievements as an archeologist; still now, this is what his name stands for (like it or not). So I think this deserves a mention in the lead. What do you think? Viator slovenicus (talk) 17:01, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The first solution seems fine (if you or someone else finds some spare time/energy). The scholarly achievements section should be expanded too. --Eleassar my talk 21:04, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have any reliable information about it? I don't know much (besides the stuff listed in the "scholarly achievements" section). Viator slovenicus (talk) 21:22, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll give it priority when I have time to research. Try as a starting point. --Eleassar my talk 21:25, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I used it to expand the lead. For the other section I don't have much time now. Check it out and see if it's better now. Viator slovenicus (talk) 21:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Do you think we can remove the label now? I see no reason to keep it. Viator slovenicus (talk) 00:11, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked the lead a bit and removed the label. I hope it's ok now. --Eleassar my talk 11:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Summarization of Janez Cvirn's essay
I think the summarization provided should be rectified. According to, Dežman did not oppose Slovene liberalism, but the Yugoslav orientation of Slovene politics. The sentence "from Slovene liberal nationalism to Austrian centralism" seems unclear or even incorrect in this regard. --Eleassar my talk 18:53, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The summary you quote says something slightly different: that the reason for him "becoming a renegade" (I'm sorry, I find no other term to translate "za njegovo odpadništvo") was the divergence regarding the Yugoslav question. So, the pro-Yugoslav turn in Slovene politics was, according to Cvirn, just the trigger that caused his evolution. What was this evolution about? Basically, he argues in the article (but the same is described by Bogo Grafenauer in his essays on Slovenian historiography), he turned from the Slovene national cause to the liberal-centralist positions of the Verfassungspartei (with all its ideological implications, including a clear preference for the "universal" German culture and language against the "provincial" Slavic cultures). Cvirn claims that he continued to consider (or publicly declare) himself as a Slovene, but the meaning of his Slovene identity became very different from his former colleagues in the national movement: he retained it as an ethnic identity, but without any political connotation (not even a preference for Slovene language and culture, which he grew increasingly hostile to). This is more or less the point of Cvirn's article, as far as I remember. Viator slovenicus (talk) 01:19, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

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