Talk:Karl Schwarzschild

Why German ?
Why is this man listed as a German Scientist? I see nothing in this article to indicate that he is German. (written by User:24.141.214.87 on May 17th, 2005)


 * The first sentence says Karl Schwarzschild (October 9, 1873 - May 11, 1916) was a noted German Jewish physicist and astronomer. -- Austrian 17:36, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And why Jewish? Is that important or even significant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.70.19.210 (talk) 09:26, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Given the time he lived in, yes it is important and significant due to how the social situation in his native Germany influenced his life. This article should be expanded to include such details only if this article is to be biographical and not simply a summary. 24.188.207.20 (talk) 16:52, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Students beware
I edited an earlier version of this article and had been monitoring it for bad edits, but I am leaving the WP and am now abandoning this article to its fate.

Just wanted to provide notice that I am only responsible (in part) for the last version I edited; see User:Hillman/Archive. I emphatically do not vouch for anything you might see in more recent versions.

Unfortunately, Schwarzschild's contributions to the theory of black hole are disputed by many cranks and also by some fringe physicists who maintain that his solution as originally presented does not correspond to the same family of vacuum solutions described by the name "Schwarzschild vacuum solution" in mainstream gtr textbooks. According to these fringe physicists, the so-called "original version" does not describe a black hole. This view is mistaken and rests upon an elementary misunderstanding of the radial coordinate in what are now called Schwarzschild coordinates (which, confusingly, is in fact not the same as the coordinate used in the original paper). Nonetheless this claim is promoted in some arXiv eprints, which have either gone unpublished or have been published in second rate journals (but should not have been published, since they are manifestly mathematically incorrect). Another fringe physicist has claimed in several arXiv eprints that the Kruskal Szekeres coordinates are not well defined. This is another mathematical error.

Given this, it is likely that at least some future versions of this article will contain misinformation about Schwarzschild's contributions to physics. In particular, it is likely that future versions will contain external links to mathematically erroneous fringe physics eprints which will however most likely be misleadingly portrayed as having been accepted in mainstream physics, which is certainly not true.

Good luck to all students in your search for information, regardless!---CH 01:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Cranks and fringe physicists
I could not agree more with the above. Students, beware of cranks and fringe physicists. But, just in case, beware also of any physicist who claims anybody who disagrees with his majority views is a crank just for that reason. Read Schwarzschild for yourselves. Using your own judgement when it really matters, that's what being a scientist is about. English translations of Schwarzschild's original papers are available on arxiv.org, thanks to some "fringe crank". Also read this letter by Schwarzschild to Einstein, in which he warns explicitly for not using his "R" as an "r". Unfortunately it is now "standard" to do just that.

Aoosten (talk) 19:35, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

[From Terry0051] [From aoosten]
 * 1) The section above starting "I could not agree more" was posted by Aoosten (who is kindly requested please to sign his posts using 4 tildes).
 * 2) The section  was posted on 5 September 2009, and Aoosten is also kindly requested please to start new sections at the foot of the page.
 * 3) Aoosten either misunderstands or incorrectly represents the letter of Schwarzschild to which he refers. The German-language passage about the two different radial variables talks about the difference between them, and says "which is a difference of the order 10-12, thus in practice absolutely equivalent" ("was ein Unterschied von der Ordnung 10-12 ist, also praktisch absolut gleichgueltig").  While I've no doubt that situations can easily be imagined and discussed which are not the practical situations envisaged by Schwarzschild, and in which the two radial variables are no longer equivalent, it does not help the present discussion to characterize Schwarzschild's message incorrectly. Terry0051 (talk) 22:06, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

It seemed to me that my note should appear immediately after the "Students beware".

As to your third point, I believe quoted Schwarzschild correctly. He explicitly states that not r but R should be used. After this assertion Schwarzschild states that for the Mercury perihelion shift this makes no practical difference. You quote only the latter assertion. Also the wiki article states that Schwarzschild's solution has a singularity at the so called Schwarzschild radius. Anyone with access to the internet can see for him- or herself that this is not correct.

Aoosten (talk) 19:44, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Contributions to Einstein's Theories
Can anyone expand this part of the article? It may have been overblown with older edits on Albert Einstein but its definitely worth noting it details. 141.211.251.69 18:22, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Black Holes, White Holes and Worm Holes Explained?
Another Schwarzschild article has been created, specifically dealing with his famous "Schwarzschild Solution" dealing with Einstein's general relativity in space. It doesn't seem a big enough topic are to be its own page, and so I have proposed it be merged here. 22:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Schwarzschild had influential works on astrophysics
I think it is a shame that all his works on stellar interiors are not being cited here. Schwarzschild was a major pioneer in the filed, introducing the concepts of radiative equilibrium and local thermodynamic equilibruim, and giving the first steps toward what we know today as stellar astrophysics. His works are commonly cited by people like Eddington and Chandrasekhar, given their relevance.

If anyone here have access to translations of Schwarzschild's papers (if such translations do exist) or a satisfactory understanding of the German language to read the originals, I think it would worth to mention these works here.

Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seneika (talk • contribs) 23:08, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

IPA for Schwarzschlid
I think IPA pronounciation of his name should be included.Daniel bg (talk) 02:40, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Solved when?
This page says he provided the first solution to Einstein's field equations of general relativity in 1915, but the page on general relativity says that Einstein published the equation in 1916. Could I please have clarification?


 * Some sources give 1916 as the year Schwarzschild found his solution. This is just sloppy research given the fact that his letter to Einstein containing the relevant formula is dated 22 December 1915. They probably just use the date of the appearance of Schwarzschild's result in print. JanBielawski (talk) 23:27, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Need a better translation
Would be nice to provide a better translation of Schwarzschild's letter to Einstein than that rather dreadful one given in the article's Reference section. JanBielawski (talk) 23:31, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Also add a note of his contribution to the Klein-Sommerfeld
Schwarzschild also contributed significantly (AFAIK) to Klein and Sommerfeld's 4-volume treatise Über die Theorie des Kreisels (The Theory of the Top - first 3 volumes recently translated to English). One of the volumes treats astronomical applications of the theory of the spinning top and Sommerfeld didn't feel fully qualified to write this portion so he asked Schwarzschild for help (while letting him know only he [Sommerfeld] would be listed as the author "for consistency reasons"). Schwarzschild agreed and of course the credit is given to him in the book's foreword. JanBielawski (talk) 23:56, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Original papers
In response to the above request for a link to English translations of original papers by Schwarzschild:

http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9905030 (Point mass)

http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9912033 (Incompressible sphere)

http://www.gsjournal.net/old/eeuro/vankov.pdf (the letter from which I quote above)

The papers were based on an earlier version of GRT communicated by Einstein in 1915.

Aoosten (talk) 20:01, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

"a minor modification of these results"
The text states the Schwarzschild's solution is "a minor modification" of Schwarzschild's original results.

I invite the critical student to investigate that so-called "minor" modification.

Aoosten (talk) 20:10, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Does not?
The article states "Schwarzschild's first (spherically symmetric) solution does not contain a coordinate singularity on a surface that is now named after him." This looks like someone has inserted the italic words 'does not' here, which is incorrect. There is a coordinate singularity at r_s = 2GM/c^2 in Schwarzschild's formulation - in later Eddington-Finklestein coordinates, which are a revised version of Schwarzschild's solution, there is no coordinate singularity at this point. I'm just a student so I haven't edited directly. I agree, that should be fixed.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.112.64 (talk) 14:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Death
The introduction to the article says Schwarzchild died of pemphigus. The body says he "may" have died of it. Which? IAmNitpicking (talk) 03:39, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:59, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation
According to what I know his name would be pronounced [ˈʃvaɐ̯tsʃɪld] with a d aat the end and not with a t.Ontologix (talk) 19:35, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * “Schild” is written with a 〈d〉, because the word can be expanded into forms like “Schilder” or “Schildes” that are actually pronounced with a [d]. But “Schild” itself is pronounced with a [t] at the and. The process is called Auslautverhärtung.
 * The letter 〈r〉 is pronounced [ʁ] only in the onset of a syllable. In the coda of a syllable, it is pronounced [ɐ̯], with two exceptions: 〈er〉 ususally becomes [ɐ] (not [ɛɐ̯]), and 〈ar〉becomes [aː]. You don’t hear a difference between “Karl” and “kahl” (both [kaːl]), “Harn” and “Hahn” (both [haːn]) etc.
 * So, in standard German, “Karl Schwarzschild” is pronounced [kaːl ˈʃvaːtsʃɪlt]. -- Sloyment (talk) 21:35, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Nationality
So why was Schwarzchild's nationality changed to Jewish? He was Germany by birth and citizenship, and "Jewish" is not a nationality in the first place, at least since the Romans assumed direct rule of Judea. IAmNitpicking (talk) 19:35, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Pauli (Theory of relativity)?
Article says, "According to Wolfgang Pauli (Theory of relativity), Schwarzschild is the first to introduce the correct Lagrangian formalism of the electromagnetic field ...".

What does the parenthetical have to do with Pauli? (Also, why is the T capitalized, but not the R?) IAmNitpicking (talk) 16:47, 22 September 2022 (UTC)