Talk:Karnivool

'96 or '98?
In the history it says they were formed in 1998, but the Years Active in the side bit says 1996. Can someone find out which one it is please? GoodOrEvil 08:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Check their website, haven't been there in a while, but it might offer some clues. Watto the jazzman 04:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Nothing on the website but have done some research and the band were formed in 1996, by Ian Kenny with two others, when he was still at high school (playing at various high school parties). They didn't start playing any professional gigs until Drew Goddard, joined the band in early 1998 (at that stage performing as a four piece). So dpendent upon what you think it is either 1996 or 1998 (am going with earlier date but most sites cite them as beginning in 1998).  They released a self titled EP in May 2000 following which Jon Stockman and Ray Hawking joined the band. In 2001 they competed in the National Campus Band competition making the final in Tasmania. Ray Hawking was replaced by Steve Judd in 2005 but in the in-between period Drew Goodard played drums on the recording of Themata. Dan arndt (talk) 06:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

The date that they were originally formed was prior to 1998, the original band members being Ian Kenny, Brett McKenzie (drummer) and Andrew Browne (guitarist). They played, as said previously, school parties and a few other small gigs, Scarborough and a pub in Fremantle come to mind. Andrew Goddard joined the band in 1998 as stated above. After their first original CD "Karnivool" was produced there was disagreement between the band members, leaving Ian as the only original band member.Abid17 (talk) 09:19, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Clean-Up
This article seems all over the place. Someone should reorganize it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.53.81.180 (talk) 23:57, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Past members
Should a section about new and past members be added? Ray Hawking and Mark Hosking spring to mind.

Also whether or not Drew should have ultimate control should be raised. I am not saying his edits are bad, Actually I agree with them, but a band member probably shouldn't write their own article.


 * No-one has "ultimate control" on Wikipedia - when you create an article you agree that it can and will be edited. --WikiSlasher 14:12, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah. I concur - no one has ultimate control. And still, who would know more about a band than the lead singer? If you're worried about subjectivity, just watch out for it, and edit accordingly. LukeST 11:26, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Genre?
According to Encyclopaedia Metallum, this band is "Groove Metal". And EM is usually the best source regarding this... http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=22879 --81.31.233.38 19:50, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

WTF is groove metal??! These guys are prog rock. They're kinda like Tool (but better IMHO. At least you can understand what Kenny is singing about unlike Maynard 'Mumbles' Keenan). This is an awful wiki entry and could be so much better. I look forward to watching it develop (hopefully?). Also looking forward to seeing Karnivool get the worldwide recognition they deserve. They're the best band I've ever heard from Perth. Can't wait for the follow up to Themata.. certainly going to be hard to beat :)

Also - Just so its clear EM makes a couple of mistakes, they said the self titled EP was done in 1998, its done in 1999. They also go on to say that Persona was on Sic, it's also been distributed through MGM. They also list Anthrax and Lamb of God as being "Groove metal" - though both do get other tags as well. Finally, if you check out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groove_metal you'll see that post thrash (which EM calls meshuggah) and "groove metal" are supposedly one and the same. I don't feel like Karnivool sounds at all like Meshuggah in any song except Scarabs really - and even there its very different (much less complicated and choppy, helluva lot less technical etc). Thats all. Thanks for your time. --Crashvirus 14:37, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Although I agree the groove metal thing, I do not quite agree with the pure prog rock label. They are very like Tool, and the Butterfly Effect, but I would also say they were melodic rock. Various reviews and magazines describe them as meloldic rock, and that was my initial reaction too. Watto the jazzman 03:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Kinda hard to give them a good hearing when they've only got the one full-length album though... New stuff (live) sounds very different though. Crashvirus 14:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Melodic Rock + Progressive Rock + Awesome! Watto the jazzman 07:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

A thought concerning prog metal and melodic rock has recently occured to me: Is it possible that a clear distinction between prog metal and melodic prog metal exists? A few suggestions come to mind:

1. That a) progressive metal mainly uses notes of a minor chord with dominant sevenths and b) melodic progressive metal uses major chords as well as other strange and wonderful chords

2. That a) progressive metal is based mainly on instrumental performance and b) in melodic progressive metal vocals play a big part?

Both of these seem to work if we take Karnivool as a Melodig prog metal band and Tool as an everyday prog metal band.

I don't know if any of this helps to define Karnivool's genre or if it is anywhere close to being correct but it might be. Does anyone agree? Watto the jazzman 09:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi - I don't think I often see bands called "melodic" progressive metal as such... Because I think that for a band to be a progressive metal band (Dream Theater or Sym X for example) - I think they have to have some kind of component of melody. Rather than just the whacky time signatures of a band like Meshuggah, who definately aren't progressive in the same kind of sense.

I'd said before - I think a 2nd album will make them a bit easier to give a tag to, because they've got a more defined sound by then. In the mean time, some kind of qualification saying a mix of (like is on the page) seems to be pretty good! Crashvirus 14:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Where does it seem they are they going with their sound, by the way? Watto the jazzman 04:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I think more of a "conventional" prog kind of sound. The two new songs they've performed live (New Day and an untitled track which features Drew on the mandolin) Sound a little bit like Tool in parts, have odd time signatures more prominent and generally seem more like something that wants to be played live, as opposed to say Synops which is pretty heavy on the samples and effects (as far as I can tell they don't play it live)... New Day also clocks in at something over 8 minutes.

Damn good songs though. Very much their own and i'm (if it wasn't hideously obvious by now) looking forward to more tracks soon hopefully. Crashvirus 09:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Mexico
Deleted Mexico from the list of places Themata is gonna be released. Mexico is North America. Anthr4x 04:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you meant Mexico is in North America. Jwoodger (talk) 05:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Extra Information for Article
What else should go in?

Should the Discography include the forthcoming CD and DVD?

Also should there be a list of videos? (Lifelike, shutterspeed & themata)

Any suggestions would rock. Crashvirus 16:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Dude, if you know all that stuff, then by all and any means, add it. Watto the jazzman (talk) 05:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Couple of problems
The quote about major influences - in the bieler brothers hotseat article or maybe something earlier Drew also mentions devin townsend... But the nirvana/carcass part was because a few people who were/are in the band played in a cover band which performed these songs. I don't think it's really in the right context exactly.

Something should be mentioned about the Gotye cover they did - "the only way" got released on the mixed blood CD on the 15th of this month.

Also - There isn't a roquefort single I don't think. 211.30.173.135 14:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

One more - I swear lol. I thought the tuning for the guitar was a bit of an ode to Devin Townsend, who uses CGCGCE (Open C maj tuning) - and BF#BGBE is almost a B minor open tuning... With an added 11th in there or something? 211.30.173.135 15:24, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Heh heh, I added the cover of The Only Way before I read this comment. No, that influences bit is a bit out of context, I suppose. You could only really say that if members of the band said that in an interview/website/etc. The tuning similarities between Karnivool and Devin Townswend do look suspiciously similar - but again, a band member would have to come out with it to put it here. Another problem - there is a bit of ambiguity surrounding the Themata section. (For example, it's hard to tell whether Andrew Goddard wrote the tracks for the entire album or just the song). Watto the jazzman (talk) 06:42, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

WHO ARE PARANOID YOUTH???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.181.97 (talk) 05:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Paranoid Youth should be removed. There's no reference to Kenny saying this, they're a no name band and that whole section is wrong. The band says it's due for an "early 2009" release anyway now. Far out. Additionally, where's the mention of their original self titled EP? If anyone doesn't believe it exists I can scan a copy of the cover and provide a track list. 122.107.102.163 (talk) 03:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I removed Paranoid Youth from the Tours part because they didn't even go to the tour they claim to be in. Or one of their fans does... Whatever. The New tracks played by Karnivool have already been named in Xpress magazine so the last paragraph here is crap. The new tracks are called "Deadman" - it's about 10 or 11 minutes, "Goliath" which is the "Spacy" track that's about 7-8 minutes long. It was also the opener in the Aeons tour at all shows. The third track is called "Pearogram" and it features Drew playing a mandolin for part of it. For video evidence of Goliath go to Moshcam.com (use IE otherwise it doesn't work) and look for Karnivool. The band has officially allowed that video to be there. 122.107.102.163 (talk) 03:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

122.107.102.163, thank you for your help in this article. I don't know who wrote the influences part or the new tracks section, or who Paranoid Youth is. The latter was badly written and I had to clean it up a bit. I didn't read the current article before looking at the discussion page, so if you haven't already added the new tracks I'll add them now. If anyone can find evidence of the band citing their influences, please come forth and share your discovery. Watto the jazzman (talk) 07:15, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I just modified the "crap" last paragraph to include the new track names. Could 122.107.102.163 please add a reference to the edition of Xpress magazine for the new track names? Watto the jazzman (talk) 07:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Persona-karnivool.jpg
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BetacommandBot 23:24, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Note on unauthorised distribution of album
Somewhere along the line the following (slightly awkward) sentence was added to the Sound Awake section:

"&ldquo;Just afterward, it was made available through illegal download.&rdquo;"

Is this not the case for almost every album released in recent years? I'm just curious as to why this warrants a mention.

114.76.44.0 (talk) 02:34, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Discography
I keep on trying to clean it up, and it keeps on getting changed back. Perhaps I'm being misunderstood. It looks cluttered when you have individual dates and record labels next to the release information. What I'm trying to say is, just put the year it was out on the discography, and then more detailed information the actual date, record label, etc, goes on the page for the actual album.

Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighters#Discography And then, for example, this article's box to the right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echoes,_Silence,_Patience_%26_Grace

Its how majority of bands/musicians have it set up. Sergecross73 (talk) 15:52, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The articles that you have cited are ones where there is a seperate discography article - where there is no such article (as in the case for Karnivool) it is appropriate to list details of their releases in the band's article - as I have done. Dan arndt (talk) 03:08, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Even without a discography, all that information is already listed on the album's respective page. It makes it look cluttered and messy. But I'll stop if you persist. This page needs a lot of work, no use dwelling on a relatively small part of the mess...Sergecross73 (talk) 03:22, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Ian Kenny's own article
For those who are interested, I'm starting up discussion here as to whether or not Ian Kenny should have its own article. Thanks, CR4ZE (talk) 11:25, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

As of this date there is no Ian Kenny article. As he is the lead singer of two acts (Karnivool and Birds of Tokyo) with Wikipedia entries, perhaps he is notable enough to deserve one of his own.Jmncnj07 (talk) 22:43, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, that hasn't changed since 2010, when the article was created and deleted. Sergecross73   msg me  22:54, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Genre 2
It seems people are fighting over genre again. So I've made it simple. I narrowed it down to 2 that have sources verifying the genre. If you've got a reliable source for your genre, add it. If you don't add a source, it'll get removed. Sergecross73  msg me   03:46, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

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