Talk:Kartini

earlier comments
Just to let anyone who is interested know that I am working on translating the Featured article about Kartini that recently appeared in the Indonesian Wikpedia.

If anyone is interested in helping out with this project, please let me know on my talk page. Cheers, --Sepa 11:31, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I've completed the translation, just a bit of tidying up to be done.--Sepa 15:36, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Great job! Lestari 11:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Seconded. I've left some comments at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias_open_tasks. --Cherry blossom tree 20:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Discussion copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countering systemic bias open tasks
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I recently translated the above Indonesian article into English. I really think that with a bit of work on it, it would make a great English featured article. As a featured article, it counters systemic bias on almost every level...It's about an Indonesian woman who has a very significant place in the pantheon of Indonesian hero[ines].

Kartini wrote letters in Dutch to friends (whom she never met) which profoundly changed the way the Dutch establishment viewed their Dutch East Indian possessions and its people. She was a women with very strong opinions on the way women were treated in her culture, on the injustices of colonialism, on the hypocrises of religion. Ironically, she was also uniquely priviledged - she was allowed to attend school until the age of 12, she had a sympathetic father who allowed her to write to her friends in the Netherlands, and later a sympathetic husband who allowed her to set up a school to educate Indonesian women. She died in childbirth at the age of 25.

Would there be any interest in collaborating on this article to try and bring it up to FA status? There are so many thought-provoking strands that could come out of it that I think it is a worthy project. I will also try and raise support on some of the regional boards.--Sepa 20:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * She seems like a noteworthy person, and the article in its current state is a very good start. I would be willing to help improve this article. Before we get to work on it, though, I can tell you the very first thing you will hear if you put it in for peer review: it needs inline citation (see WP:WIAFA). The article cites several references, which is better than many article on Wikipedia, but in order to get featured status, it will have to have inline citation.


 * The &lt;ref> element is currently in vogue (I find its the best option for inline citation), but it can be a little tricky if you aren't familiar with it. I've made extensive use of it in the Bill Haywood article if you want some examples. However, if you just use simple Harvard referencing, I would be willing to come in and convert it to &lt;ref>.


 * This is definitely a good start to what could be an excellent article. Feel free to contact me personally if you want any help. --JerryOrr 12:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree about the inline references. Since the Indonesian version doesn't have them it could be awkward depending on what access you have to the sources listed, but it will be necessary to get it featured. Also if it is going to be featured it will need an expanded lead section (see WP:LEAD.) I've slightly reworked the article - copyediting, moving a few bits around. The biography section is still very long - maybe that could do with some subsections. That's all I can think of for now. Good article! --Cherry blossom tree 20:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[end copied material]

Gan-fail

Good Article nomination has failed
The Good article nomination for has failed
 * ((b) it follows a logical structure, introducing the topic and then grouping together its coverage of related aspects; where appropriate, it contains a succinct lead section summarising the topic, and the remaining text is organised into a system of hierarchical sections:
 * The article lists further studies and teaching under "Ideas" when it seems pretty clear that it should be in the Bio section as her desires to teach and her family's refusal to allow her clearly were big momments, not really ideas but life ambitions crushed. Seperating the two results in this weird writing style where she dies twice (Bio and Ideas).


 * The article needs to be structred better

is broad in its coverage, addressing all major aspects of the topic (this requirement is slightly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required by WP:FAC, and allows shorter articles and broad overviews of large topics to be listed);.


 * The article says that her letters were published postmortem and then "attracted great interest in the Netherlands and Kartini's ideas began to change the way the Dutch viewed native women in Java. Her ideas also provided inspiration for prominent figures in the fight for Independence." But who were these leaders and how were they affected? It never even says when the letters were published or what the timeline was for her national rise to prominence. Nor does it say how Van Deventer and Abendanon came to know of her and why they were inspired by her. Also,


 * There seems to be holes in this story and they need to be filled.

the citation of its sources is essential, and the use of inline citations is desirable, although not mandatory:


 * There's controversy in this subject relating to the veracity of her letters and there are claims made without sources that There are some grounds for doubting the veracity of Kartini's letters and consequently, I would say that this leads to violation of criteria 4b, that "all significant points of view are fairly presented, but not asserted, particularly where there are or have been conflicting views on the topic." The view that there are grounds for doubting the veracity of the letters is an assertion.

Good luck improving the article, it's got promise.) TonyJoe 23:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Sosrokartono
There was a Javanese writer who allegedly worked as a correspondent (perhaps a freelance) for the New York Herald in the early part of the 20th century named Drs. R.M. Sosro Kartono (10 April 1877-9 February 1952). Perhaps the R.M. was his rank, Raden Mas. I wonder if he was any relation? Or perhaps he was the Sosrokartono, Kartini's older brother, mentioned in the article RahadyanS 06:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm 99 percent certain there's a relationship, from Googling the name. Apparently most of the online references to Sosrokartono are in Bahasa Indonesia. RahadyanS 05:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Sosroningrat family tree in Letters from Kartini: An Indonesian Feminist, 1900-1904 (Joost Coté, trans.) shows Kartini's older brother, Sosrokartono, was born and died on the same dates. Sosrokartono is known to understand 26 languages, so it is a very likely candidate to be a newspaper correspondent. 121.223.144.146 (talk) 04:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

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