Talk:Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl/Archive 1

kasimasi vs kashimashi
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be spelled Kasimasi, but I can't help but notice that animesuki.com and 3 of the 4 fansub groups working on it call it Kashimashi. On the other hand, clearly when the title is spelled out on the logo in text it's spelled Kasimasi, animenewsnetwork.com and one fansub group also call it Kasimasi, and the official website is spelled kasimasi.com. Thoughts? Ned Scott 03:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * si and shi, no real difference they are approximations to the same character. --203.214.12.107 06:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Animesuki's forums say:
 * "There are two main romanization systems for Japanese, the old Hepburn one which is used outside Japan ("Kashimashi"), and a government-approved one which is more used inside Japan ("Kasimasi"). "Si" and "shi" are two ways of representing the same Japanese written kana　し　. Most Japanese pronouncing "Kasimasi" say something that comes closer to "Kashimashi" to English-speakers' ears. Probably you could say "Kasimasi" is more correct, since the show's site uses it, but I prefer Kashimashi because it comes closer to the way it actually sounds in Japanese."


 * Its mainly a stylistic choice though. Kyaa the Catlord 13:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ow! Ow!  Nipponshiki / Kunreishiki gives me a rash.  Is it Fuji or Huzi?  This system says the latter is correct, but no one calls it "hoo-zy" and therefore this romanization is inherently skewed.  Still, if and when this gets licensed, then the North American title will get precedence, which would make this entire dispute academic at best.  Of course, this may lead to gems of mistransliteration like Tenjho Tenge, but more often than not, it reverts to Hepburn.  In any case, strong and speedy leave as is, for the time being, due to creator preference, even if it hurts my brain and I won't use it on my personal website.  Miwa 20:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's just pray it isn't like Kita E.... Diamond Dust Drops would have been an interesting title, "Diamond Daydreams" is simply misleading. :D Kyaa the Catlord 09:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

The series' title is displayed, in Roman letters, by the Japanese creators, as "Kasimasi". I feel that makes it clear what the series' title is.--Zaorish 07:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That simply denotes the creators' preference of Kunreishiki rather than spelling (remember that "spelling" is not a concept that is considered very important in Japan in any case), there's also companies that spell Fuji "Huzi" as well. Many Japanese are simply not aware of Hepburn and wouldn't know to use it.  I think this should remain as is, but the final word should go to the licensed title should this series be optioned by an Anglophone company. -- Miwa * talk * contribs ^_^ 04:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * "Kasimasi" makes me cringe every time I see it, but since that is the way it is spelled in the series, then that is the way it should stay. This reminds me a lot about the issue with My-HiME some time ago. The proper romaji is spelled "Mai", but the website had it spelled "My". It was the ladder that was ultimately chosen when the show came to America. --TheScott18 18:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Minor issue
I found that there was no real page for "androphobia": It just redirected to "Misandry", which seems to be much more of a political than a medical page. So I linked "androphobia" here to "phobia."


 * Linked it back. There is now a page for "androphobia", albiet a brief one.

Characters
Added a few. Does anyone know the name of (the calm girl with the blue hair & glasses) and (her love interest/Hazumu's previous best friend) ?

Non-encyclopedically, episode 4 was rather blunt in terms of storytelling. Still, the characters's actions seem natural. It'll be interesting to see if Yasuna takes fire from others for being gay.

--Zaorish 06:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * According to the official site, the meganekko is Ayuki Mari (摩利 あゆき Mari Ayuki) and the boy is Asuta Soro (曽呂 明日太 Soro Asuta). Shiroi Hane 03:56, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


 * More information about the characters here: http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/anime/kasimasi/ then click on "Characters" (Direct link: http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/contents/kasimasi/characters/ ) lilewyn 03:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Since Namiko-sensei's LAST name is Tsuki, it should be Namiko Tsuki, but then the trivia for Tsukinami wouldn't make sense. Hmm...

And Jan Puu-chan's name is spelled out as Jan Poo in the tv-tokyo site above, but in the "Kasimasi Official Fan Book" it's listed as Jan Pu. Leave as is?
 * I edited the names to include their original Japanese spelling in kanji and changed the order of Namiko's and Hitoshi's for consistancy.--Juhachi 01:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure Hazumu is the only member in the gardening club (in the anime)? Where was this mentioned? Hazumu saying "gardening club made them" for the vegitables/strawberries seems to indicate the club does exist.

At least in the manga, several members of the club do exist. Hazumu was one of the only two guys in the club, before he turned female. --70.96.147.51 09:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * When in doubt, remove until it can be verified...--Mikeats 08:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I could have sworn I read something like that in the manga. I'd have to look back and see if it's true or not.--Juhachi 08:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's a scan from ch. 22 which is probably why I thought that. So it does appear there are other members, but Hazumu also says that if she leaves, there'll be no one else to care for the plants. So does that mean there are only two members in the Gardning Club in the manga or what?--Juhachi 09:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Hazumu telling the club kohai how to take care of the plants, or else "there will be noone to take care of them..." Not sure how many in total, but in the manga there seems to be at least 4 including Hazumu.--Mikeats 10:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Episodes
Granted, it's a new anime, but it looks as if there are six episode titles listable so far: (sources: http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/contents/kasimasi/episodes/episodes1/ and http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=5835&page=25 )

1. The day the boy transformed 2. The girl realizes she's a girl 3. Hazumu's heart, Yasuna's heart 4. Girl Triangle 5. The things reflected in Yasuna's eyes 6. The bride and the groom I was a huge fan of Ranma (and think Takahashi should do more, quite honestly) but this is quickly coming in as second place for me. Sadly, I've only seen the first three episodes. lilewyn 02:57, 16 April 2006 (UTC) (originally posted anonymously from 206.246.160.221 )

CHATTING in response to Kylu: Less than Ranma, eh? Well, just because the basic premise of the show is the same, doesn't mean everything else will be. For me personally, I am quicklky liking it more: I like the sober and compassionate way the characters' personalities and relationships are handled. But, each to his/her own. Thanks for adding the ep titles. --Zaorish 07:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * wrong section. :)
 * Anyway, while all TG/Harem anime is a bit contrived due to the nature of the genre, I'm afraid I find Hazumu's reactions to her friends to be a bit... overly naive for that age. Maybe I'm projecting, but I seem to recall being much more relationship-wise at that age. o.O;
 * I'm rather curious what the deal is with Ep. 12... I can't find it anywhere, just 11. I'm just looking for research purposes, of course, though. n.n
 * Originally deleted, I re-added this section so Zaorish's replies would make sense in-context. :)
 * lilewyn 02:57, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

DVD?
Chatting: Now, I'm afraid my Japanese sucks, but unless it's gotten horribly worse today, it looks like the first DVD volume is out tomorrow. (かしまし～ガール・ミーツ・ガール～) Anyone going to buy? ~Kylu ( u | t )  01:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * despite this comment being marked "chatting", DVD release info would be good to add to the article :) -- Ned Scott 01:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, I know how we can associate it with the article! Howabout you get the DVD, I'll watch it and write up episode reviews for all the episodes! Everyone's happy! :D ~Kylu ( u | t )  02:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I spend way too much time talking to myself here. :P
 * Anyway, I found a place that's selling the DVD. セブンアンドワイ ... 4,463円（税込）... s'what, about USD$50? I didn't know if anyone else felt that it would be appropriate to put this information in the article, especially since we've got a link to a torrent site. c.c ~Kylu ( u | t )  02:00, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You might find CD Japan easier since it is in English, has complete series listings, and also gives price equivalents in dollars. Shiroi Hane 09:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * When I said that it would be good to include info on the DVD release I meant the date it was released and any special notes on what it contained. Wikipedia is not a place to find links to buy stuff. -- Ned Scott 02:24, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Heck, I'm for removing the animesuki link also. I think I'll go be bold. Kyaa the Catlord 10:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Not sure why you would want to remove the link. Those English translations account for most of the information on this article. -- Ned Scott 02:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Because this is, so far, a unique external link? I've done an overview of the anime I'm currently watching (Nana, Haruhi, Disgaea as a sample) and none of them link to fansubs. I'm not certain if there is a wiki policy related to linking to such sites. I'm not removing them, just stating my reasoning. Kyaa the Catlord 05:55, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if Wikipedia has an official, stated policy, but while I have been exposed (n.n) to fansubs and appreciate the fact that they make anime available here much earlier than otherwise possible, it is like abandonware: While the copyright owners might not be enforcing it, it's still a copyright violation to host and distribute it. I don't know how much Wikipedia would want to be associated with such. ~Kylu ( u | t )  06:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Considering there is actually have a whole article for AnimeSuki, the issue of wether or not to link to such sites is much bigger than this article alone. External links (the wiki policy regarding external links) says "Sites that have been used as references in the creation of an article should be linked to in a references section". So I'll move it to there and mark it as a reference, which is really the only reason I want to include it. -- Ned Scott 06:54, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not exactly certain how the fansub listing was used as a reference, I know I used their forums as part of the discussion on how to name the article. Maybe those should be linked rather than the listing. Kyaa the Catlord 07:27, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * We could put links to both stores there, maybe put a cute little flag next to each store to represent the language? :D ~Kylu ( u | t )  15:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

* AnimeSuki.com listing of fansub BitTorrent downloads. <- To newcomers: This is the link that is mentioned in the above discussion. It's redisplayed here for reference purposes only so we have context to discuss the link. Please do not view this as an invitation to copy copyrighted works. :) ~Kylu ( u | t )  06:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Seiyū vs Voiced by
TheFarix changed Seiyū to voiced by, I changed it back. This is a title, like fireman or dentist, and we aren't breaking the "sparingly" rule. If consensus says to change it back, I'm game, but this isn't the way this is handled in most other anime entries, see also Rei Ayanami, The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi... This is a stylistic choice and it isn't being used in every other line. Kyaa the Catlord 11:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

From Seiyu: "A Seiyū (声優, also transliterated seiyuu or simply seiyu) is a Japanese term meaning "voice actor." Seiyū work in radio, television and movies, perform voice-overs for non-Japanese movies and provide narration. The most well-known seiyū work as anime and video game character actors. When speaking of a character in a series translated into English, conventional usage among American fans is to use "seiyū" to refer to the Japanese actor and "voice actor" for the English one."

Please do not start an edit war against consensus. Kyaa the Catlord 11:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed the '(Japanese)' tags after the Seiyu's names since they are obviously Japanese names and the fact that this series has yet to be licensed in America, which I might add, would appear in the article if it was so.
 * Furthermore, I believe the term 'Seiyū' is a justifiable one, and should be kept. The reason I changed it to that is because the majority of other anime wiki pages I've seen use the term 'Seiyū' when speaking of the Japanese voice actors, and besides, it's been wikified to the page about it even if you don't know what Seiyū means.--Juhachi 18:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler tag around Yasuna?
I'm a little confused as to why the spoiler tag was put only on that section of the charcters. I don't really see this as a big spoiler for the series since this is realized by the audience within the first three episodes.

I was just wondering if anyone thought the spoiler tag should be moved to encompass the whole characters section, leave it as is, or remove it completely.--Juhachi 18:30, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It was the only thing I thought could be considered a spoiler. The rest doesn't really seem to contain any real spoilers.  If you want to remove it all together, that'd be fine with me. -- Ned Scott 01:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm going to go ahead and remove the spoiler tags. --Juhachi 08:28, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

references, linking to fansubs
I can't speak for others, but I can tell you anything that I've added to the article has most likely come from one of those fansubs. I'm not trying to promote piracy, or anything like that. While the issue of fansubs is somewhat.. borderline.. what is not "borderline" is Verifiability. I even reworded the link so it didn't say downloads or BitTorrent. I also felt that linking to a listing of groups would be more appropriate than linking to their websites directly (or to the torrent files directly). -- Ned Scott 01:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, I've read WP:EL, twice now, and still don't see where it would exclude fansub links, or anything close to it. -- Ned Scott 01:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Mm, actually, I think I found that one on the first try: WP:EL "Occasionally acceptable links" #5:
 * External sites can possibly violate copyright. Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else's copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. Whether such a link is contributory infringement is currently being debated in the courts, but in any case, linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on us (see Copyrights and in particular Contributors' rights and obligations).
 * From Copyrights:(Partial duplicate of above paragraph)
 * Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else's copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. Whether such a link is contributory infringement is currently being debated in the courts, but in any case, linking to a site that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on us. If the site in question is making fair use of the material, linking is OK.
 * The guys at Anime News Network know a little about the legality of fansubs:
 * ''Legally, there is no difference between "fansubs" and "bootlegs". In the eyes of the law, both could be seen as damaging to the market. Regardless of whether or not a title has been technicaly licensed in North America, it is illegal. Lack of enforsement of copyright laws in terms of unlicensed fansubs maybe the result of several different factors. Some companies may believe that the early introduction of the title to North America is beneficial. Others may simply tolerate a "fan-activity" as long as it does not become too damaging to sales. And yet other companies may not want to or be able to invest the time and money necessary to prosecute foreign violations of their copyright.
 * ''In the end, regardless of ethics, or motive, fansubs are technicaly illegal.
 * Fair Use does not apply to these sites, as they're blatantly distributing copyrighted material that they do not have license to.
 * So, what's policy then?
 * Easy. It's "occasionally acceptable" and at the moment is iffy, as it may potentially be considered contributory copyright infringement. I would like to get opinions from members of the WikiProject on linking to fansubs, personally. :)
 * (Now if I can just find that Slayers torrent...) ~Kylu ( u | t )  02:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * If it really is that bothersome to people, then I wouldn't mind not linking to it as long as some form of citation was still made. -- Ned Scott 07:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Doesn't bother me in the least. I can honestly say it's not the first time I've been to a torrent site (I prefer animeyume though) though I try to not fool myself into thinking it's not an illegal hobby. It's like when driving, I typically can go 20kph over the limit just fine, but if a cop pulls me over I know well that I'll deserve the ticket. I'd like to reference the fansub information, but I'm not totally sure how to do that without placing Wikipedia in some sort of legal danger.
 * I wonder... The Japanese Wikipedia article seems similar to ours (lacking pics though)... My Japanese isn't very great, but I'd think we could use them as a reference. ~Kylu ( u | t )  13:03, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Considering that not very much of this article (if any) was referenced from the Japanese article, I'd have to say no on saying it was a real reference.--Juhachi 18:54, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought there was a difference between a "reference" and an "original reference" for that reason? (In general, not wikipolicy) - a reference being where "someone" could find the information, an original reference where you found the information originally? <i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ( u | t ) </i> 23:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * But if that were true wouldn't that mean that all the links in the External links section could be considered references too? And besides, the Japnese article is already linked in the 'In other languages' box on the side panal on the left; no real need to link it again within the article, is there?--Juhachi 00:16, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Quite true! I'm reading WP:CITE and it shows how to properly cite outside sources for inclusion into Wikipedia, and gives a link for citing Wikipedia for others (which we're all familiar with). It doesn't necessarily say you can't cite wikipedia from wikipedia, but I think since we can't easily discuss the differences with the japanese wikipedians (er, I can't easily, anyway) then I don't see how it could be considered collusion to cite them. The other articles seem to be backing up the information we have so far on Kasimasi. I think it'd be best to relegate the fansub site URL to this talk page and leave it here until we have some positive need for it in the future. :)
 * I wonder if we should get a RfC for citing other-language wikipedias as primary sources for En: articles, as opposed to simply transwiki-ing? I'll be happy to go about the process myself, if nobody objects, as I've never taken part in RfC before. :D
 * <i style="color:#FF00FF;">~Kylu ( u | t ) </i> 05:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Hitoshi Sora's Japanese name
I tried to input Hitoshi's name as it is written in kanji, but my computer program that inputs kanji didn't have the ones for his last name, Sora. If anyone can do so, input his name in kanji. His original name is found here.--Juhachi 01:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * This machine does not have a Japanese IME, but you may be able to find the appropriate Kanji by changing the dictionary from general to names - IIRC if you are using the MS IME then the option is on one of the buttons to the right of the language bar. Shiroi Hane 11:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. Yeah, a lot of ateji don't appear in the IME.  Should have tried Uchu and Jin :)  Gotta love his name. --125.202.21.136 14:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
First, an error in the trivia section - Kashima-Shi, the city the story takes place in, is written as 鹿縞市, and is in Tokyo (from ep1). It is NOT based on 鹿嶋市 in Ibaraki prefecture. It is also not based on 鹿島市 in Saga prefecture. Source - Japanese Wikipedia article

Now for the characters' names, I believe they are all verbs. No official source on this though. So unless the nouns listed right now have sources, the above makes more sense. --70.96.147.220 20:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hazumu is probably from the verb "hazumu"
 * Yasuna is probably from the verb "yasumu"
 * Ayuki is probably from the verb "ayumu" or the verb "aruki"
 * Jan Puu is probably from the verb Jump.
 * First of all, looking at the manga, I see that they are in Kashima City, Tokyo County, but okay, so I got the wrong Kashima City; I'll change it.


 * As for the names, I was first given their meaning from another site and then I looked them up in my dictionary. I ended up choosing the nouns I found over the verbs you provided (which I also found, but didn't use) simply because they matched more closely to the meanings that were first given to me. I suppose it could go either way, so I'll edit the article to reflect that. Although, I couldn't find ayumu anywhere. Not only that, but aruki is technically a noun to describe the act of walking, not the action itself. Aruku means To walk and is a verb.


 * However, Janpu was also in my dictionary as a noun translating to jump opposed to the verb tobu which means To jump.--Juhachi 23:22, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Juhachi on most points. Although Janpu is a Japanese pronounciation for the English word jump, techincally it needs to be Janpu-suru to be a verb in Japanese.  aruki is indeed a noun.  ayumu is a verb - it's weird that your dict doesn't have it.  Try some online dict like Online English to Japanese to English Dictionary.  lol I guess we're nitpicking, but since a lot of us use Anime to learn Japanese I guess it's good to get it right. --Mikeats 07:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Toru and Kahoru: I dunno about this one. I think that's stretching it a bit too far... Unless it's clearly obvious like the main character's puns on action words, and Uchu-Jin / Tsuki-nami, probably not a good thing to start putting in speculations? Toru/Tooru(徹) is a common Japanese male name meaning devoted. Kahoru(かほる) is not as common, but is a female name meaning fragrance.

Every name has a meaning, especially Japanese names. Asuta is asu(tomorrow) and -ta, a common suffix in male names. "Tomorrow I'm solo(soro)" comes to mind, but that's also speculation... --70.96.147.51 09:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I too heavily doubt that anything was intended with Toru and Kahoru. Kahoru is not even close to Kiseru.  And I just J-googled 大佛徹(Osaragi Tooru) and 撮る(Toru as in take a picture) and found 0 results.--125.204.142.181 01:22, 3 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Alright, since it is only speculation after all, I get your points. I'll remove the trivia references to Toru and Kahoru.--Juhachi 05:22, 3 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I checked the Japanese Wikipedia article but they didn't have any trivia regarding the action words. But their trivia stated that the main characters' names are related to religion.  Interesting... --125.204.142.168 17:00, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Added the list of characters names' coming from religious figures to the Trivia section.--Mikeats 23:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Kashima City?
Why is it when visiting the page List of cities in Japan, I could only find two Kashima City's: The one in Ibaraki and the other in Saga, but no where to be found in Tokyo? Is the Kashima City in Tokyo so small that it won't even show up? Or is there really no Kashima City in Tokyo?--Juhachi 00:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The Kashima-Shi in the story is fictional. --Mikeats 07:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay then, glad that's all cleared up now. I've just edited the Trivia section in the article to reflect that.--Juhachi 05:46, 24 May 2006 (UTC)