Talk:Kaskians

[Untitled]
what language did Kaska people speak? were they anyhow related to other indigenous inhabitants of the Eastern shores of the Black Sea area like mushks, colkhs? and is there a link b/n kaskas & kavkas (Caucasus) ?

t.u. (anon.)


 * They are only attested by their enemies the Hittites. As they were non-literatev and there is no indication through toponymy, their own language is completely unknown. --Wetman (talk) 22:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * IIRC there are some remains of their language, mostly religious rituals, quoted in Hittite documents. But even if my memory is correct, that doesn't mean these fragments have been read & understood. (Anyone who would want to attempt to use comparative linguistics to understand them would need a working knowledge of Georgian, Hattic, & several other less familiar languages -- or just be a crank & make up stuff.) -- llywrch (talk) 20:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I can get by in Georgian (at least the "mainstream" dialect) as well as Chechen and Kabard (or Qabard as it should be as that is not how east Circassians pronounce their K's). The interesting thing about these Kaska is Pharoah's request for some of them.  Many smaller ethnic groups went "legit" by serving as frontier guards for Egypt, Assyria, China, whoever was big.  The idea that Colchans came from Egypt probably comes from the such mercenary work yielding a skilled military caste.  Soldiering in foreign lands is a very long tradition for Georgians as well as Circassians.

Also, they seem to be grain farmers who raised pigs. So they weren't nomads, simply displaced people. Circassians tend to dislike farming which they associate with slavery; they preferred to fish or raise dairy animals. They don't seem to be hard-core nomads but were always popular caravan escorts and such.

Kaska-land is not Colchis, though, but they might've spoken a Kart language. "Kaska" means "young men" in Zan-dialects and "Muski" means "father" with a suffix common to Lazican and southern Georgian names. Also they could've been Phrygian or Armenian types. They might've spoken a Turkic language as "Kashka" means "wolf" in several of them. Though the thought of a Turkic languages being spoken anywhere in Anatolia back then. . . well, it upsets certain people for certain reasons. Point out the obvious similarities between Hurrian and Turkish, and that the former may have an eastern cousin, and no-one wants to hear it. Obviously the Turks were all locked in a box in Siberia until the Chinese and Byzantines needed their horsemen.

Perhaps they spoke Kassite, which matches Kart languages only slightly less well than it does Hurrian. Though the Hittites would've probably mentioned this as well since they seem to have taken over Babylon in sync.

It might also just mean "starving people" in Hittite. Or it might mean "helmet", in which case could be generic for soldier.

In any case

I hate to say anything discouraging to the Circassians, but the similarity of "Kaska" to "Kossog" and similar names applied to them in the Khazar era were given by people with n

Them being Hattic is pleasing to modern minds eager for an underdog story. In truth the Kaska were (I don't know where this idea that Hattic = Circassian ... Hattic bears little resemblance to any Kart or Circ language . . . whereas Hurrian is very connectable to the Nakh/Dagestani languages, and   are just both of which can only be approximated though   which is a fascinating  (as There is no folklore in the area about "that time we took down the Hittites"; Nationalistic arguments over Kaska and Colchis - Both the Kaska and Muski names could've

Standard reference?
Is E. von Shuler, Die Kaškäer: ein Beitrag zur Ethnographie des Alten Kleinasien (Berlin: de Gruyter) 1965 still the standard. I hasten to add that I haven't read it myself, but the article needs to point to some standard presentation of the topic. --Wetman (talk) 22:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

A suggestion

 * Kaska is so generally the name of the "Kaskians" [sic] of Wikipedia that the following arrangement might be preferred:


 * Kaska Dena, one of the First People of northwest North America.
 * Kaska, the inveterate enemies of the Hittites.
 * Kaska (disambiguation) disambiguating page with the above text.

Might there be drawbacks to such a change? Please respond here at Talk:Kaskians. --Wetman (talk) 23:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Are there no drawbacks then?--Wetman (talk) 22:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In terms of wikistyle, the only way to accomplish that is to approve the name change, and I continue to oppose it (see next xection). You say "so generally the name of" - but generally to whom?  Certainly not to lingiusts, or Athapaskan-field linguists anyway, as also the Kaska people who are alive, not thousands of years dead.  I'd say somewhere there's gonna be a Wiki guidelines about living people vs dead peoples and what's the "more general usage".  "Kaska Dean" does mean "Kaska people" anyway (name format for indigneous peoples in this region various, though, some with "people", some without; left off in some cases because redundnat, e.g. Skwxwu7mesh and Secwepemc where -mesh and -emc mean "people".  Kaska anyway is a modern endngered language, a living peoplek, and known generally in lniguistics and anthropology and BC/indiegneous peoples' pollitic and culture.  I'm rooting for them, but if you can prove there's more hits or whatever on the anti-hittite Kaskians, go ahead; but don't rejigger page titles without consensus, and I'd say we need an outside party;  Kaska language is another article, Kaska Dena First Nation (or whatever their badn-government name is) and so on are other articles.Skookum1 (talk) 01:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Kaska
The Kaska are a living people, not an ancient/extinct one, that's one reason the Kaska article is primarily theirs; also "it was there first" and Wiki naming conventions operate on that principle. Kaska as a people and a modern (if endangered) language is very widely known in linguistics, and also of course to the Kaska Dena themselves. Also "Kaskian" is an English formation or who knows whta they called themselves; "Kaska" is how the Kaska Dena name their language and themselves, it's not an English variant, it's Kaska language. So it has a priori that way, as a proper name in its original language, as well as a pre-existing title/article.Skookum1 (talk) 23:18, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Kaska can be a straight disambig, though, with teh Kaska Dena entries grouped accordingly; but I wouldn't agree with you at all that Kaska is the most common/priority usage; especially again since they're a dead people and also since it's a Hittite name, not even in Kaskian.Skookum1 (talk) 23:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

weaving / ref
The one short comment on their ethnography is "supported" by ^ Concise Britannica, s.v. "Kaska". But this link appears to be dead. Can some-one get another source (e.g., EB paper copy)?

What does Kaska have to do with Georgia?
There is no single evidence of any possible connection, just might might might... Georgians on the other hand were first referred to by Greek myth march of 10000s as Kardus(they call themselves kartli) in a distamt land than Blacksea(Armenians lived between them and blacksea during their march from Euphrates).

And there are clear references in Hittite tablets to Kaska tribes, which suggests a NW caucasian connection. They may be remnants of Hatti(NW Caucasian), or a branch of Ari (aka Urartu, NE Caucasian). ANd Arabic name for NW caucasians was Kaskas during early arabic calypthe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.253.249.205 (talk) 10:15, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Problem with the word "Kolkha"
Please explain why are you removing the original edits? There is no such thing as the word "Qulkhi", but Kolkha know to the ancient Urartuans and Colchis was Mingrelian-Laz state. Imorthodox23 (talk) 22:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Do you have any sources to back up your assertions? Because I'm finding all kinds of sources agreeing that Qulhi is the word for them used in cuneiform tablets. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 18:14, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


 * There is no such things as finding our was it the letter "K" or "Q" in cuneiform tablets, read the articles about Colchis, it was knows as Kolkha or Kolkhida in the ancient times, in the kingdom of Urartu. Imorthodox23 (talk) 22:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


 * So do I take that as a "no", you don't have any source backing up your assertion? Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 18:30, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I am sure that the word "Qulhi" might mean something else already, see the article about Colchis before you write something about it elsewhere, you can see the "Kolkha" written everywhere.

By the way, you wrote forgot to mention letter "k", it's either "Kolkha" or "Qulkhi", the term "Qulhi" is not written anywhere. Imorthodox23 (talk) 23:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Here on wikipedia we go by reliable sources, and if you don;t have any, it really won't help us what you are sure of, or what you say your personal knowledge is. When I looked for Qulhi, I found abundant sources agreeing that this was the cuneiform name for the region. That's what matters according to WP:VER. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 19:16, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Why it is suggested that the Kaskians were related to Kartvelian?
Why it is suggested that the Kaskians were related to Kartvelian people? It looks like a nonsense, and like an idea that is harshly determined by a certain politics. Kaska are usually considered as a branch of Hattians who are rather close relatives of Abkhazo-Adygean people, but not Kartvelian (see: Igor M. Diakonoff, Itamar Singer, Ahmet Ünal). Also I am to tell that in the region where Kaska lived (according to Hittite chronicles) can be found some toponyms containing Northwestcaucasian roots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepe mantani (talk • contribs) 00:27, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

About Where Kaskians From
"The Kaska, probably originating from the eastern shore of the Propontis" is it true?

You can check the source here: https://www.twirpx.com/file/1723810/ I think it's not reliable.

This book was written in 1960s. we need up-to-date resources. We dont know where Kaskians from yet. But, we guess where Kaskians region. For this, I can offer up-to-date resources here: https://www.academia.edu/9816488

Also, you can check the Turkish Kaskians article for more information: https://tr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaşkalar

Finally, sorry for my useless English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emre Güneş123 (talk • contribs) 14:41, 16 February 2020 (UTC)