Talk:Kasumi Shintō-ryū Kenjutsu

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The article was not clear - is this a seperate martial art or a term used within Shinto muso ryu. If the former, I guess it should be listed in the Japanese martial art category (please put it back). If its a subset of Shinto-muso ryu than it should be left as is I believe.Peter Rehse 08:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is in fact a bit tricky to discern. In the Shinto Muso-ryu Densho it says besides the Jo-kata, there are "8 odachi, 4 kodachi" kata, which comprises the kenjutsu-kata and tradition seen in this article. There was, as I understood it, no name for these 12 kata in the densho itself so they have been informally (or maybe formally too, not sure), been called "Shinto-ryu Kenjutsu" since the mid 1800's.


 * However, in the past few years, Kaminoda Tsunemori, a Menkyo Kaiden of SMR, got his hands on some family documents (not his family) passed down since the 16th century or so, where it supposedly says that this particular series of kenjutsu kata were known as "Kasumi Shinto-ryu" kenjutsu. The kata were identified by comparing the family records own descriptions of the 12 kata if I recall correctly. Muso Gonnosuke, the founder of SMR, supposedly learned martial arts in part from a man named Sakurai Osumi-no-Kami. This man was a direct student of the founder of Kasumi Shinto-ryu and passed the 12 kata onto Muso Gonnosuke who in turn incorporated the 12 kata into his own system.


 * As a result of this new discovery, Kaminoda and a few others in the SMR-community have started to call the old "Shinto-ryu kenjutsu" by its new/old name: "Kasumi Shinto-ryu Kenjutsu". But as far as I know its not yet accepted by every SMR and there is some controversy over the documents. The documents has not exactly been examined with a fine tooth-comb yet by the major players in SMR Kaminoda has the documents and have invited the SMR bigshots to view them as I understood it.


 * I admit I was a bit quick to name this article Kasumi Shinto-ryu and I should in retrospect have used the old "Shinto-ryu Kenjutsu". Problem is there isnt any lack of ryu named "shinto-ryu" and hold "kenjutsu" in its system. I think I made the decision to create a Kasumi-article with the rational thought that "Kasumi" was a unique name and that the article disclaimers regarding teh Kasumi name would be enough. Regardless, I'm still not sure what to call it. "Ryu"? or something that "belongs in the SMR-system". I created this article so I wouldnt clog up the main SMR-article. I can return it of course..or rename this article, but I'm not sure what I would call it. Fred26 11:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Name is fine as is I think - interesting stuff.Peter Rehse 00:08, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

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