Talk:Kate Bush/Archive 1

Vocal Range
I've just added "citation needed" for the claim she has an "expressive four octave range". Having a four octave range means she can enter tenor and baritone ranges, which she seemingly can't. This reminds me too much of the claim that Mariah Carey has 6 or 8 octaves when in fact she has one and a half. This shouldn't be here if it's not stated or proven in any way. ~ John1987.


 * She certainly has quite a range - listen to Hammer Horror for instance. -- Beardo 22:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay now I'm DYING to know what it is! somebody please find out and source it in the article. (and mentioning that Carey monster here is just so ...YUCK!)  ;>--4.158.201.177 12:00, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The 4 octave range claim should be returned to 3 octave unless someone can point out specific notes in specific songs to support the claims. Andrew "IED" Marvick's research says:

 The initial search having stirred his interest, IED decided to undertake a more thorough survey of Kate's vocal athletics, and his efforts thus far have already  necessitated significant emendations to his original posting on the subject.  Although he expressed doubt recently about the possibility of anyone having a true "four-octave range", and claimed that anyway Kate's own range appeared to  extend fewer than three full octaves, IED now admits that the second of these  assertions was false, and possibly the first, as well. In listening to Kate's first three albums and her 1979 live recordings he discovered two songs in which Kate topped  the high C which she sang on the track Don't Push Your Foot on the Heart Brake. In the Tour of Life performances of Violin Kate capped her vocal with a huge and wonderfully authoritative leap to the E above high C, when she sang the final  "Violin!" of the song. Although this pyrotechnical feat is noticeably absent from the later studio recording of Violin, Kate also reached the high E in an earlier studio  recording: James and the Cold Gun. IED has also found that Kate's voice reaches below the low E-flat which he had earlier claimed was Kate's lowest sung note (found on the extended mix of RUTH ). On the Lionheart track Coffee Homeground Kate in fact sings (albeit with some uncertainty and only on a rather minor bass harmony backing-vocal) a low D-flat. This can be heard during the brief bridge leading out of the first chorus of the song into the second set of verses. Kate accompanies the instruments with a series of "la-la-la"s, and these extend, in the lower of Kate's two overdubs, to a definite low  D-flat. The sum total of all this is that, while he earlier stated that Kate's range was two full tones shy of three octaves, he can now announce, after only an incomplete search  of her recordings, that her voice extends at least one-and-a-half tones beyond three  full octaves. Even though this still leaves Kate's range well short of the legendary four octaves so often ascribed to her, IED would not be surprised to discover, in the  course of his continuing research, that Kate has "pushed the envelope" even further.


 * I don't have the musical knowledge to answer this question. But I can confirm the quality of IED's research.K8 fan 00:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * TommasOz changed "3 octave range" to "4 octave range". I changed it to "greater than 3 octave range" to match IED's research. I'd love to see some proof of 4 octaves. It's credible, but this claim requires proof.K8 fan 05:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just measured the vocal range of Happy Rhodes using Seventh String Software's Transcribe program, and Happy's range is just a hair over 3 octaves. 4 octaves is the realm of singers like Yma Sumac.K8 fan 08:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Does someone know if Kate Bush had any operatic training and, if so, shouldn't this be mentioned in the article. I heard somewhere that she had? Ivankinsman (talk) 09:04, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No interview or TV program in my very extensive collection has stated that she has had any operatic training. K8 fan (talk) 03:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

BTW, the BBC Living Icons profile for Kate Bush says she has four. I'd trust they've done their research. (StevenEdmondson (talk) 17:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC))
 * Sadly, even the BBC does not tend to do the research beyond confirming that the claim has been made. It seems credible, but I've measured 4 octave voices and I have yet to see any proof of Kate having a larger than 3 and a half octave range. I'd love to be proven wrong. K8 fan (talk) 03:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a shame then. Surely they would have been corrected by someone though? Oh yes, there is no someone. Okay someone does exist, at very least a few of them, but it would be unlike them to make a public announcement about well, anything really, a matter that may seem so trivial especially.(StevenEdmondson (talk) 17:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC))

Keeping Opinion out of the Article
Hi, please keep in mind not to write anything that is pure opinion or point of view and only stick to the facts. The people involved in this article thus far have been doing a great job keeping their personal opinions out of the article, but recently people have started adding many comments that lend to more addressing their opinions of songs, and/or drawing conjectured conclusions. This is not an article for a magazine; it is meant to be read as an article in an encyclopedia. Currently I am unable to really go through and address these issues, but as soon as I am able I will. Any help in this would be much appreciated, and ultimately adds to the success of this article. Cheers! Kris

Singles
Hi. I noticed that in the singles chronology, "Rocket Man" and "The Man I Love" are conspicuously missing. What gives? Are we only going to list tracks released through EMI? If so, why are we mentioning "Don't Give Up?" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Does anyone have enough info about Kate Bush's charting singles to create a chart in the entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.142.232.104 (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The Dreaming and Hounds of Love
I realize I may be drifting into point of view territory, but I really think it is important to draw attention to The Dreaming and Hounds of Love. I tried to do it in a way that was objective, but maybe someone else can help me out. Konky2000

I changed the classical guitarist from Jonathan Williams to John Williams. I hope this was correct and if not will look forward to reading why not! :) --Nevilley 06:23, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

---No, you shouldn;t have changed this. Jonathan Williams is a classical guitarist and is different from John Williams the orchestra conductor. I may try and change it back.

To be added: April 20 1979 - Died this day, Billy Duffy, lighting director, was killed in a accident during a Kate Bush concert, in Southampton, England. 21 year old Duffy fell twenty feet through an open trap door on the stage. Kate Bush held a benefit concert on 12 May, with Peter Gabriel and Steve Harley at London’s Hmmersmith Odeon for his family. Off to work right now, will weave it in later. Someone else feel free to add if they are so inclined. Martin TB 08:43, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Done it Martin TB 19:54, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually, Bill Duffield died during rehearsals for the tour, not during a concert. K8 fan 07:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey Konky2000 -

Have you read gaffa.org? Just in regards to 'The Ninth Wave', I'm pretty sure there's stuff in there about how it's related to the Tennyson poem. I'll try and see if I can find it. :) Twinstar 16:22, 22 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes I love gaffa.org. I hope I haven't inadvertantly copied anything from there. I'm thrilled to see that everyone helped out not only on The Dreaming and Hounds of Love, but all her other albums as well! Konky2000


 * I don't think it's possible to write about Kate Bush without quoting Gaffa.org. It's down as I write this, but I have a backup copy posted here: Gaffaweb emergency backup Andrew Marvick wrote:

The "ninth wave" reference is not found in Tennyson's "Holy Grail". Although it is from the "Idylls", it is part of "The Coming of Arthur". The false reference was a mistake which Kate did discover before the release of the first edition of the album,  but which she could not prevail upon the printers to correct. Later pressings incorporate the correction. According to one interviewer, she was very distressed by the error. K8 fan 07:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


 * As Gaffaweb has been down for a week, I've added a link to my backup copy of Gaffa.orgK8 fan 01:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As Gaffa.org has returned, I have deleted the link to the backup copy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by K8 fan (talk • contribs) 21:45, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Moving
Is Moving really about the female orgasm? Evidence here suggests that it isn't... I commented it for now.

Re: use of lyrics
Although I support the deletion of lyrics from the caption of the Dreaming cover reproduction because they don't really fit there, my understanding is that lyrics, though copyright, may be quoted in minimal form -- a line here or there. Otherwise one could get into copyright problems if you quote a line of a song that has become vernacular, i.e. "Come on baby, light my fire" or some such. Thoughts? Official policy? 23skidoo 03:55, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

New Album?
HMV Japan has the release date for the 26th October as a two-disc album and Rolling Stone magazine has the release date for 8th November. Does anyone have any more information?
 * I don't know about the Japanese release (maybe it's a greatest hits collection), but I'm adding the Rolling Stone report to the main article. 23skidoo 16:12, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Tabloid reports
I removed the statement "There were also unconfirmed reports that she had suffered a nervous breakdown" from the article, which |the person who originally added it has seen fit to re-enter. Apart from the mirrors of Wikipedia articles mentioning, multiplying, and magnifying the prominence of the tale, a Google search for Kate Bush "nervous breakdown" reveals many reports of such a thing in regard to Peter Gabriel, Roy Harper, and Sinéad O'Connor, but none for Bush that I have yet found.

I too have read a mention of this in a major music magazine; it was reporting on the story existing in what many refer to as the "Fleet street rags". I have also seen such major music magazines echo reports that she had shot up to over 400 lbs, and others that Elvis Presley, Jim Morrison and Adolf Hitler are all indeed alive and in hiding. Are we compelled to consider all the reports that might appear second or third hand and originating in the tabloids as "encyclopedic" information that must be included in Wikipedia articles? ~ Achilles † 19:34, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The handle is 23skidoo and I'm right here. If it's published by reputable press - and the music magazines like Rolling STone qualify like it or not - then it is notable enough to be noted. And the article I saw included an interview with her and was a "where is she now" type of thing (and no I cannot recall if she said anything; I believe the interview was an old one). So in fact, unless you can provide an article in a non-"Fleet Street Rag" (a very POV term I might add) that confirms the opposite is true, then the answer to your question is Yes, it is worth noting. And if it is unconfirmed, then it should be noted as such. I don't go around making this stuff up and if you read what I original placed you'll see I made sure to include the term unconfirmed and place it within its proper context that she had all but disappeared from the public eye over the last decade. 23skidoo 19:56, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I would not insist on an absolute confirmation of all rumors before mention is made of them, but I would hold that unless normally reliable sources actually indicate that reports of a personal or private nature about someone have a strong likelihood of being genuine, it is not worthy of significant mention, let alone placement in a prominent and much duplicated encyclopedia article. ~ Achilles † 21:24, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Rolling Stone is not a reliable source on Kate. They reported on Kate's appearance at the Prince's Trust Royal Gala concert, and claimed that "...her top fell down, exposing the top of Kate Bush". Anyone who has seen the video can confirm that, while first one strap, then the other, of her spaghetti-style top broke, she managed to hold her top up and no additional skin was exposed at any point. And she didn't miss a note. Tragically, Rolling Stone sometimes follows the old dictum that "When the lie sells better than the truth, print the lie". K8 fan 23:36, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

from clementsk@hotmail.com -- i remember hearing that kate was dealing with a nervous breakdown around 1996 or 1997. it was reported on an english gossip television show. there were also reports of her "ballooning up," ( i think that was the way they said it. ) in any case, it was all in regards to her disappearance, and i think that since it was the media who was saying these things about her, it does stand to reason that we should include it in this article, if only simply to give the public feeling about kate bush's disappearance.

hi. found some reports about Kate's state of mind in the mid 90s. "May: In the May 1997 Kate Bush Club newsletter Kate responds to recent tabloid rubbish which claims she'd gone mad, called herself Catherine Earnshaw, has become a recluse etc,etc.....This always seems to happen when Kate is out of the public eye for a while. Kate says:

"Hi everyone, thanks for all your letters. Just thought I'd let you know I've had a lovely break away from work. I feel energised and I'm just starting to write again (early days yet so please don't hold your breath). I thought I should dispel a few press rumours. I have not gone mad. I have not changed my name, if Rolf Harris is going to be on the next album, I haven't thought of it yet. I am well and happy and yes, the artist formerly known as Kate Bush is still Kate Bush and is alive and kicking! I hope you're all well and thanks yet again for your continued warmth and support, with lots of love, Kate Bush"

i found it at this website: http://www.katebushnews.com/leaving.htm i think that's enough to say that if kate was reponding to it, then the rumours were at least loud enough for her to finally make a statement about them.

I believe I read an interview with her in Q Magazine a couple years ago in which Kate Bush herself confirmed that for a few years in the mid-90's she was in a very bad state. While I don't believe she said she had a 'nervous breakdown' she did confirm that her emotional state was responsible for her public absense for such a long period. Konky2000


 * I think this recent statement says a great deal upon this matter:


 * "Y'know, I'm a very strong person and I think that's why actually I find it really infuriating when I read, 'She had a nervous breakdown' or 'She's not very mentally stable, just a weak, frail little creature'." ~ Kate Bush, from an interview in MOJO magazine (due out on 3 November 2005) and quoted in The Guardian (28 October 2005)


 * I can agree with her entirely. It is appalling and extremely aggravating the degrees people will go to ridicule, deride, and condemn anything or anyone that won't fit into their neat little pigeon-holes and categories. I also find it amusing that her first single from Aerial pokes a bit of fun at all the Elvis-is-alive myths and rumours that so many people are fond of. ~ Achilles † 00:26, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

.The Press; & reporting junk.
MI5; make them do it; for one reason only; it keeps the status-quo. The more stories about celebs, they have; & less colum inches are left for serious reporting. Such as "Mr Galloway" & his; satanic breed, control, 99% of "Europe" in the name of a lawless, anarcho-syndicate. So, if you were "Kate Bush"; would you go out much; when you know dam well, that there is not a straight court room in "Europe"; never mind, one in the "UK".

Removal of images
What is rmvd, I liked that image for the article??? - Anonymous editor


 * The images that were deleted were apparently deemed to be copyright violations because whomever originally uploaded them failed to provide sufficient proof that they could be used under fair use rules. Album covers, publicity photos, screenshots and photos to which you own the copyright are pretty much all that can be used for an article such as this. 23skidoo 02:31, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Red Shoes section - POV
There is an awful lot of POV in this article, especially in the Red Shoes section. If I have time later this weekend I'm going to do a copy edit and remove much of it, but maybe someone else wants to give it a go before me. Example of POV is the talk about the "maybe she wanted to cast off her own Red Shoes", etc. We can't say stuff like that, but it's OK to quote someone who does. 23skidoo 07:06, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, and please do dive in if you get time. This article is obviously brimming with subjective opinion and commentary, obviously written by someone who is a fan. We need to be more objective in a neutral encyclopedia article, and at least cite the opinions of others. &mdash; Matt Crypto 21:18, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Never For Ever
I hope no-one minds - I just added something about the French version of 'Never For Ever' at the bottom :) Twinstar 16:24, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I removed the following statement:

"It was her first album to reach the top of the charts. In fact, she was the first woman ever to have a Number One album."

I don't object to this, but I think a statement like this needs to specify which 'chart' it was on and which chart Kate Bush was the first woman to have a Number One album on. As soon as someone can get that information, incorporate it into the sentence and add it back in. Konky2000


 * I put it back in since it IS her first number one album (look at the discography), and she is the first woman to have a number one album on the British charts (unfortunately there's no online verification of this other than fan sites, but it is in reputable books. Does that count?)  Stev0

This statement needs to be re-written:

"Never for Ever was the first Kate Bush album to be composed on synthesizers and drum machines (in particular, the Fairlight CMI which was programmed by Richard James Burgess and John L. Walters), her earlier albums being composed on the piano."

This is incorrect. Kate didn't acquire the Fairlight until well into the production of Never For Ever. The strongest evidence of this is the performance of "Babooshka" on the Doctor Hook show. It was mimed to a nearly completed version of the track, but lacked the Fairlight glass smash sounds of the album version. The Dreaming on the other hand was written on drum machines and the Fairlight (particularly the Fairlight's "Page R"  rhythm program).K8 fan 21:10, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Missing albums
I like the section on the individual albums -- but it's missing Kick Inside and Lionheart! 23skidoo 00:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Glad to see Kick Inside and Lionheart added. I wonder if we shouldn't also have paragraphs for the compilations The Whole Story and This Woman's Work, too? Certainly The Whole Story is significant as it introduced a lot of people to Bush's work and included the new song Experiment IV. Also, what about the On Stage mini-album and the later (official) Hammersmith disc? 23skidoo 14:44, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you for liking my entry on The Kick Inside and Lionheart - my very first (major) edit to a Wikipedia article (I'm also the one who added all the singles to the chart - my very first edit ever on wikipedia). I only recently found out how to comment changes, so please forgive my lack of comments on them!  Anyway, I could MAYBE see having The Whole Story there (looking at other musical artists, there doesn't seem to be ANY consistancy at all here).  Definitely not On Stage (just an EP, and an out-of-print one, as far as I know, at that).  Maybe having the Live at Hammersmith CD listed (but I lower priority than The Whole Story).  I'd say the This Woman's Work boxed set is a higher priority than Live at Hammersmith but lower than The Whole Story.  Stev0 04:05, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think the in-print status of an album is relevant. This isn't intended to be a catalogue of current releases. Live on Stage was a major release in its day and IIRC a pretty big seller. Live at Hammersmith is a bit more obscure but it was released by her record company in response to both fan demand and the fact there were so many bootlegs out there anyway. It's a bit more obscure (I've yet to find a copy myself) but certainly worthy of inclusion as well. At the moment my Wikitime is limited otherwise I'd add them myself. 23skidoo 12:40, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

In the Live albums/EP section, it states that the full concert was issued in 1989. That is incorrect. I have the UK edition and the copyright date is 1994. It was released after The Red Shoes as a compact disc and PAL video set. I have corrected the information, but if someone can show me a discography where 1989 is the release date, I'll be happy to change it back.Cloudbusting101
 * My concern isn't that it's out of print; my concern is that it's "just" an EP.  Most charts I've seen rank it with other singles, not other albums (example).  Stev0
 * It may be "just" an EP, but it contained previously unreleased material and it was not used as a promotional tool for an album, which is the usual use for an EP. The term "mini-album" is more appropriate for this release. I have an Alexei Sayle "EP" that runs 45 minutes. 23skidoo 14:41, 30 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I like the idea of specifying studio albums, because aside from the Live EP there are also numerous bootlegs of live concerts in circulation as well as a couple of interview albums, too. 23skidoo 00:50, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, besides the EP I was thinking more of The Whole Story, Live at Hammersmith, and This Woman's Work when I changed "Albums" to "Studio Albums", but that's a good idea, too. Maybe Albums should be its own separate page? Stev0

I believe that the original release of Live from Hammersmith Odeon is considered a long play single. That's why it was included in The Single File boxed set, and shows up in the liner notes for The Whole Story as a single. It did do well in the UK charts, I don't know about anywhere else. The later edition of Live at Hammersmith Odeon (with the PAL video) was almost an underground release, but was not released in America. It was only sanctioned by EMI, not Columbia. We may want to mention that it was her first gatefold single (the only other one was "Running Up That Hill." But, if we did that, we might want to cover the various packaging for all of her albums and singles, and God knows there are already a million different sites on the web that have that covered. Cloudbusting101 21:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC) Kris

Ne t'enfuis pas
The section of Never For Ever suggests that Ne t'en fui pas [NTFP] is a French language version of a song entitled 'Never For Ever'. I have removed the comment as 1) it contradicts Kate's account of writing NTFP (http://children.ofthenight.org/cloudbusting/story/1982.html) scroll almost to the bottom of the page. The relevant section is also copied below, and indicates that KB wrote the song for her own amusement rather than as a translation of a pre-existing track.  2) we have no evidence that there ever was a song called Never For Ever. Hope the majority agree. Chris

From interview:

Besides all the promotional activities, because of the decision to release another single, a b-side had to be written. It is always this way for me: even if things are carefully planned, things always happen at once - and in a big way. I've always loved the idea of singing in a foreign language, and I thought this b-side would be a perfect excuse for doing so.

Really the only language I know enough of to be able to work creatively with is French, so I thought of all the odd words I know, and tried to piece a story together. It's surprising how inspiring it can be to work from a slightly different tangent.

The tune came straight away, and I filled in all the lines that I had no proper words for with pseudo-French sounds. Luckily Patrick, who worked on Lionheart with us in Superbear [Studios, in france] was staying with Paddy to work on some tracks, so, between him and a friend Vivienne, we worked out the complete lyrics, and Ne T'enfuis pas was put to tape. Csm1701 13:46, 29 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Just by way of a point of trivia, NTFP was released in Canada as a single, the A-side to "Dreamtime" which was an instrumental version of "The Dreaming" that was one of the few tracks not included in the box set. I have a copy in my collection. 23skidoo 12:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)


 * It was also released in France with a French language version of the song, "The Infant Kiss (from Never for Ever)" as the b-side. Both songs are great.  I love how moody NTFP is.  I also really like "Dreamtime" doesn't totally correspond to "The Dreaming."  It's a little longer and there are vocals in the instrumental version which aren't heard in the original version.
 * That was from me. oops. Cloudbusting101 20:50, 7 October 2005 (UTC) Kris


 * Note that the correct song title is Ne t'enfuis pas. Official releases in France and Canada got it right, though some British ones made the (much-reproduced) error. There is no possible deliberate reason for writing Ne t'en fui pas. It is likely a confusion with "Ne t'en fais pas", which means "don't worry about it". -- Justinbb 07:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I own a book called "Kate Bush Complete," which is an official release by EMI Publishing that prints lyrics to most of her 1978 to 1986 output. The entry for "Ne T'enfuis Pas" subtitles the song as "Don't Fly Away" and translates the lyrics to English. If someone wants to work that info into the main article, it may prove helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.142.232.104 (talk) 17:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Aerial
Rather than adding a tracklist and all that other information under Aerial -- when nothing like that exists for the other albums -- wouldn't it be better to simply create a separate article? I believe separate articles already exist for all of Kate's albums anyway. 23skidoo 14:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I was just about to say the exact same thing. Right now there's a stub for Aerial - it can be fleshed out a bit more now.  Also, when it's more than just a stub don't forget to edit The Red Shoes page to update the chronology!  Stev0
 * Great minds think alike. I wonder if any online reviews and the like are going to start turning up? I know Elvis fans apparently like the references in King of the Mountain but I've yet to hear anyone state whether it (or the album) is actually any good. 23skidoo 18:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and threw together an Aerial page - Question: How does one edit the discography box?
 * Go to Template:Kate Bush Discography and just edit it as you would an article. The changes will appear on every page with the template tag. 23skidoo 18:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

On the tracklisting, one editor thinks "Pi" should be linked to the article about the number. Another editor (oh, alright, me) thinks it shouldn't. Anyone else have any opinions one way or the other? See the Aerial discussion page to see both sides. Stev0 22:15, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

As much as I hate to bring this up, I don't think the new images are licensed to EMI Records or Sony. They were first used in an Italian newspaper website and were apparently taken by fashion photographer, Trevor Leighton. In that case, they probably belong to him, and he probably owns the copyright. Before we leave them up permanently, we might want to check that EMI is using them as official publicity stills. Cloudbusting101 21:41, 5 October 2005 (UTC)Kris


 * I have seen them used on several web sites now, always listed as 'new publicity photos', tho admitedly without confirming that EMI owns the shots. The pix were sent to me in the understanding they were officially sanctioned promo photos.  Trevor Leighton may well have been commissioned to take the shots, but it does not follow that he owns them.  Feel free to remove the photos, but their widesperad and sudden appearance all over the 'net suggests to me that they're official.  Will remove reference to EMI on photo descriptions, just so as not to tick anyone off. Csm1701 22:14, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


 * [Kate Bush News and Information] (a usually reliable site) labels them "publicity photos". I didn't see them used in any news article using Google News, but I assume they really are OK-to-use publicity photos. Stev0 02:18, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Check related thread below for update.

Missing sections
"See also", "References" and possibly "Further Reading" sections need adding to this article. — Wackymacs 14:15, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Paddy Bush
Does anyone else think that the references to Paddy Bush's participation on each of her albums as being a bit overkill? He is mentioned on each album page along with the other musicians. Is there really a need to mention him in the synapsis of each record on the main artist page? This is an article on Kate Bush, not Paddy Bush. Cloudbusting
 * Maybe someone has done some cutting already, but I don't see any references to Paddy in the album section beyond his involvement in The Kick Inside, which is understandable, and his listing among the musicians, which is only proper. He's probably notable enough on his own to warrant his own article, I agree there. 23skidoo 00:39, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

The Dreaming
""Leave It Open" speaks of the need to acknowledge and express the darker sides of one's personality. The latter was inspired by the murder of John Lennon ("my door was never locked/Until one day a trigger come cocking")" I've never heard that before. Could someone clear this up? Where did Kate say this?


 * It's an educated guess (taken from gaffa.org); I personally think it makes sense, but if it should be taken out, go for it. Stev0 22:44, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

New image licensing
The new, recent image is great, but although a promophoto license tag is included on the image page, given Wiki's current zero-tolerence policy towards copyrighted images I fear it might not be enough. Besides just saying "a larger version of a publicity shot" (or whatever) the image description should state that the image is copyrighted by, er, whatever her record company is now. I'd hate to see the image deleted on a technicality. 23skidoo 04:18, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Please see above (the section titled "Aerial") where we've already discussed the photos. I posted the pix - they are in use all over the web on respected web sites.  The photo I received had no copyright info, just said "for promotional use only".  If you're worried, please feel free to track down the copyright info - I regret I haven't the time.  Csm1701 08:25, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I have to admit, I haven't seen any reference to EMI or Kate owning the images. I think they've been licensed through Trevor Leighton and should be replaced by an image we know is actually from EMI.  Why not the cover of the Whole Story, seeing as that doesn't show up anywhere else in the article?  Cloudbuster101 (I don't know why suddenly I can't sign what I write.)
 * If the image has been circulated as a promo, then I see no reason why there should be a problem. I just wanted to make sure the bases were covered as this article already lost several excellent images because of uncertainty over copyright status. 23skidoo 03:04, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * So we can finally put this to rest!!! I'm so excited, I got the "King of the Mountain" single and guess what picture is on it!!! That's right! The one that's posted!  So the caption needs to now say, "taken from the inlay of the single, "King of the Mountain," or something to that affect.  -- Cloudbusting101


 * The image was posted as being a publicity still because that is what it was issued as. There seems to be no point in now saying it's an inlay photo.  `(What if it turns up next week on a advertising poster on the Tokyo underground?  Would we change the description again?)  Saying it's taken from the inlay for KOTM is also untrue.  Please just stop fretting over what is a non-issue. 83.217.190.69 23:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It's only a non-issue until another administrator deletes the image. Right now it should be safe, but I said the same thing about some other images at Star Trek and elsewhere that got tossed. I'm not exaggerating when I say the owners of Wikipedia have gotten really strict. I myself have all but stopped uploading images as a result. 23skidoo 23:57, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The fact that it is, in fact, in the inlay for the single of "King of the Mountain" validates the fact that it is a publicity photograph, and therefore clear to be used on this site. We weren't arguing about it, we were making sure it wouldn't be taken down in a matter of days.  And it is in the inlay of the single "King of the Mountain," unless I've received a truly rare printing error.Cloudbusting101 11:03, 14 November 2005


 * I finally found an article that uses one of the pictures in question: NME; something called Teen Today uses another photo from the same session.  Neither story has a copyright notice for the photo.  NME is too mainstream to go around stealing photos - and I assume if they can't get a free-to-use publicity photo, they won't use one (note the absense of one on their Rage Against the Machine and Madonna pages, to pick two big artists at random who it would not be hard to find a photo of).  I think this proves they're generic publicity photos. Stev0 03:15, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * May I respectfully suggest that this issue is using up more debate than it requires. Even if the image has some copyright problem (and it seems not to) and even if it gets removed (there's no sign of that happening) we can always put up something in its place.  Let's keep this in persepctive - it's just a jpeg on a web page, not a matter of life and death! :-)  Csm1701 07:23, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm not very good at changing the images, but I have some objections about the new image up here. 1) why did the one that was up there get removed?  We sorted out the legality of it and everyone was pleased with it, and 2) the caption of the image is totally incorrect.  Kate never had a single for "Under the Ivy," it was the b-side of "Running Up that Hill" and that image wasn't used on it.  Could someone please change it back to the current pub. image from "King of the Mountain?"  Thanks. Cloudbusting101 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The sentiment behind the new (less license-upsetting) image is that it better captures her divine creativity during the height of her career -- perfect for this sort of biographical and discographical article. igarvey 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * BTW if by some chance the newest image runs into licensing problems, I have a copy of the book The Secret World of Kate Bush which uses the same photo on its cover so if necessary a scan of the book cover can be substituted under fair use. 23skidoo 03:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I noticed something about only using images from singles or albums on wikipedia recently. That's more concern.  The image was used in the booklet for THIS WOMAN'S WORK boxed set.  I suppose we could justify it that way.  Personally, I think the new headshots are more appropriate though.  Cloudbusting101 10:08, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The change in image is dreadful. The current one is out of date, neither more nor less open to challenge re copyright and the claim that it represents Kate at the height of her 'divine creativity' is pure POV (and there are many here who would argue that her recent work is way more 'divine'!).  Cloudbustin101 reasonably asked why the previous pic got removed.  So far nobody has given a decent answer.  As the change seems entirely to be based on one editor's POV, with no decent logic behind it, I am going to reinstate the pic I originally uploaded.  It's a pub shot, used extensively, has no lehgal problems and represents Bush as she is now.  I'd ask that it is not replaced without a proper discussion taking place on this page.  09:31, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * ... actually, forget it. It'd only get changed back again by the guy with his 'divine creativity' fetish.  What's the point?  83.217.190.69 09:36, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought nobody was questioning the legality of the photo anymore. I agree the photo should be changed back to the more current one.  But even if we keep the image that's there now, the caption should be fixed (The Singles File was a boxed set of 7" 45s, when one thinks "album" one thinks one 12" 33 1/3). Stev0 18:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think anyone's questioning the legality of the image, but rather the appropriateness. However, for it to be 'legal,' it must be correctly labelled, and was initially captioned as an image from her single, "Under the Ivy," which seeing as "Under the Ivy" was never a single, negates its legality.  Neither was it the cover of "The Single File," as the cover for "The Single File" was a close-up of the ivy featured on the back of her "The Dreaming" album.  Someone else pointed out that it was used as the cover of "The Secret History of Kate Bush," and also appears in the booklet for the "This Woman's Work" Boxed Set.

I state again that I think the more recent shots of Bush are much more appropriate. If Bush were dead, we could go back through her images and choose one that represents her career as a whole. But she is not dead, and it is more appropriate to showcase a more recent image. cloudbusting101 16:17, 13 January 2006 (PST)
 * Personally it doesn't matter to me what image is used, just so long as it is properly sourced otherwise it'll have a short lifespan because the copyright police will speedy delete it. Incidentally exactly what constitutes proper sourcing is beyond me. An image I uploaded for the Sheena Easton article was marked for speedy deletion even though it contained all the proper information and sourcing. So go figure. 23skidoo 01:43, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Suggestion: Look at other similar images that have been on Wikipedia awhile (ie, that no one has a problem with at all) for popular artists.  See how those images are labeled, and copy that labelling exactly (with appropriate edits of names, dates, etc).   Since apparently nobody has a problem with the legality, only the labelling, this should do the trick.  By the way, when I said "current image" in my above comment, I meant "the one taken which shows how Kate currently looks", not "the image that is currently on the page".Stev0 04:42, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Not a bad suggestion at all -- though my Easton image was uploaded about a year ago and no one seemed to have an issue with it. (For the record, the image wasn't speedied because I added more text to the edit summary and removed the speedy tag as I felt there was sufficient information and no one objected. Not that this would work in every case. From an aesthetic POV, I'm not that fond of the "ivy head" photo and would prefer either a recent promo shot or something like the cover of The Whole Story or The Dreaming. But that's just me. 23skidoo 04:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I just had to delete the Sheena Easton image I mentioned because (and I am not exaggerating) I could not provide a mailing address or phone number of the publicist that issued the photo back in 1981. Whoever uploaded the ivy photo -- you better do some research or it's gonna be deleted eventually, too. Me, at this point if someone suggested eliminating all images from Wikipedia, I'd vote in favor: it's too much of a pain in the butt these days. 23skidoo 19:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as the general consensus is to change the current image back to the previous one, anyone want to jump on that? I don't know how, otherwise I would. And by the way, the caption is still incorrect.

Lionheart
There was a passage recently added (then recently deleted) saying this "entire album" makes references to the dramatic arts. This passage was correctly deleted (imho, of course), but for the wrong reason. The song "Hammer Horror" does make a reference to Hunchback of Notre Dame through the clever wordplay: "I've got a hunch that you're following/To get your own back on me." However, besides "Hammer Horror" and "Wow" (and maybe "Coffee Homeground" if you include the whole "Arsenic and Old Lace" theme, and the "When you wish upon a star" line from "In Search of Peter Pan"), I can't think of any other references to the dramatic arts on this album. Maybe saying "several songs on this album" instead of "entire album" would be better wording (but even then is a bit of a stretch). Stev0 04:53, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * If I recall correctly, Kate once said that Coffee Homeground was inspired by a real life incident involving a German (hence Kate's accent) taxi driver who thought he was being poisoned. Csm1701 08:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * You are correct (Source: [Cloudbusting] ) - I'm just trying to give the editor who wrote that line about the dramatic arts the most leeway I can. Unfortunately, it's still not enough to justify what he wrote. Stev0 15:56, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Apparently they thought you were wrong, I just removed those statements again. However, there does -seem- to be a theme of the arts at work on the album, Shakespeare in mentioned in "Oh England," E. M. Barrie's play, "Wendy and Peter," "Hunchback of Notre Dame" -- I think that's actually a bit more obvious than you give it credit.  On top of the "I've got a hunch..." line, you have, "who knows all the sights of Notre Dame?"  I think it's there, but it's POV and analytical.  That's the sort of thing where it can be said, "some people think," or likewise, but for the most part, it can't be said that the entire album is about theatre.  On the other hand, maybe we should make a list of all the dramatic art she makes reference to."


 * I'm not the one who deleted the passage in question, I was just agreeing with the deletion. I'll give you "Wendy and Peter" (although when I think of Peter Pan, I think of the Disney version, but that's just me), and I already aknowledged the Hunchback reference (see comment above).  A mention could be made of it, but I think the original writer of that statement is seeing more in it than is actually there.  While I'm at it, generic question:  the article is getting rather long; how much about each album should go on the main article page, and how much should go on each album's individual page? Stev0 14:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I think having separate pages for each album would be a good idea. Maybe we should keep it limited to song titles, chart placings, year released, musicians, overlying themes, etc.  It's hard to keep everything subjective and just state the facts when so many people are so passionate about Kate. Cloudbusting101


 * There already is a separate page for each album. I'm not sure what you mean by the above - put that info in the main page, and have the separate page go into more detail, or put that info on the album page itself and just link to it from the main article? Stev0 02:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Categories
I like the new Kate Bush category, but why take out most of the old categories? She's still a singer/songwriter, a British singer, etc. Can anyone think of any reason why I shouldn't put these categories back in? Stev0 15:05, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * No. Unless somehow the Kate Bush category has been made a subcat of all these, these categories should be reinstated. I'll let you do the honors. 23skidoo 15:38, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, I took them out of the Kate Bush category and put them back in the main article page. I noticed that all other the artists (eg, David Bowie) are done that way. Stev0 14:28, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

POV (again!)
Does anyone feel that the edits by 82.1.40.174 to various bits of the article are either too inclined towards POV or just (can't quite put my finger on why) not quite right for Wikipedia?

An example: Re The Red Shoes "In retrospect, it should not be surprising that a twelve year wait would follow this album. Kate made it known in interviews that she felt work had come to dominate her life. The title track reflects her desire to be freed from her muse for some time and the album's cover art, which seems to show clouds or snow-capped hills is in fact a much-magnified view of the groove of a record and the red shoes form a stylus, condemned to endlessly spin in the groove."

Seems to me to be a mix of guesswork, opinion with a little fact thrown in.

I don't really want to alter several of his/her edits without some input. 83.217.190.69 08:17, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the "not surprising part" is definitely POV and has to go. The rest of it appears to be Kate Bush's POV but it needs to be reworked to make this more explicit. Plus the source of the interview needs to be cited if possible. What interviews? If the added description of the cover originates from Kate, then it needs to be specified. If it's an elaboration by the editor, then it has to go per NPOV. 23skidoo 16:20, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


 * This entire article reeks of defensive POV. --Dhartung | Talk 05:40, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I think the writers have done a fairly decent job of trying to keep POV out of the article. Instead of just stating that you think the article is POV, please point out specific passages and let us all try and clean it up a bit. Cloudbusting101
 * I second that. Aside from the couple of things I noted I don't see that much more POV than you'd see in other major-length articles on singers, etc. Point out the shortcomings or be bold and fix them -- worst that could happen is someone reverts the changes in which case it can be discussed here. 23skidoo 19:30, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Silverchair relevance
Daniel Johns of Silverchair was turned onto Bush while recording the band's "Neon Ballroom"- a breakout album in that band's career in terms of sophistication, experimentation and lyrical innovation.

What has this got to do with Kate Bush? Was it her influence that lead to the sophisticiation, experimentation, and lyrical innovation of Neon Ballroom?

On a different topic. In the "AERIAL" section someone wrote that there was a special release of "This Woman's Work" and it shot up the charts. Actually, it was played on a televsion show in the UK and people started downloading it, and it charted in the downloadable charts. That's all. It wasn't a special release at all. I have corrected that statement. Cloudbusting101

Chart"breaker"
"Aerial" entered the German Album Charts directly at "3" (21.Nov.2005) and is currently still in the Top 20 (place 13 this week).

Use of surnames
I have to support MattCrypto's view on this. This is an encyclopedia and encyclopedias as well as other formal writing uses the same rule-of-thumb as journalism: full name (plus title or rank if any) on first reference, and then last name only on subsequent references. Exceptions to this are allowed if the article is referring to more than one person with the same last name and even then there are ways around it. It's not considered impolite by any stretch of the imagination, and while you still encounter newspapers that use things like Mr. Smith and Ms. Bush (The Times and the Globe and Mail are the only two I can think of right now), they're generally considered old-fashioned in this regard. Of course the Times and G&M are proof that exceptions exist depending on the editorial preference of a publication, but as far as I know Wikipedia's editorial preference is to use last names. 23skidoo 02:06, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Okay, I see your point. There are still references to her as "Kate" in this article, which presumably should be removed.  Jbattersby 16:34, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Tour dates
Just added an additional date to the Tour Of Life section (13/5/1979), prompted by the rediscovery of my old ticket stub which shows the date and that the show would be filmed. If I recall correctly, this additional concert was one of two (see below) added to the end of the UK leg of the tour to meet demand. And this is where my memory gets hazy. I recall being overjoyed that Kate had added the 13 May show as I'd not been able to get a ticket to any other show, however I also have a memory of a school friend skipping an exam on 14 May so he could get to see her last show at the Odeon. Obviously I am confident of the 13/5/79 gig date, but is my memory playing tricks about the gig the next day? Anyone know for sure? Csm1701 20:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC) More clarification is needed; as far as the reason, Kate Bush never did another tour. The fear of flying issue; is pretty much pointless; & should not be mentioned; for it is more of a mind-type issue; & as such should be kept private. Artistic people; do live in the Sky to a certain extent; & as in the famous icarus fable; if you fly to close to the sun; well in their case, if yoy fly at all, a six hour flight means a loss of 14lbs in bodyweight {Sweat}; just like a race car driver. That; plus the sickness; would mean, one months recovery, between flights. There are other modes of transport. I would be more interested to hear wether or not it was a "Jimmy Jibb" dispute; rather than an "Idiot Check" gone wrong, that killed the young rigger. If that was the case; surely someone could have explained the facts of the rigger community {They kill each other on a regular basis; a clue, they, in "todays money" earned £1000 an hour; a young man in that area of work keeps his gob shut, or he is in trouble. Going of written material; he was full of vitality; & life; they don't like that. Not "POV"; but "FOL" [fact of life]}; & Kate Bush would have, lived the dream that "I" feel she is worthy of. 99% of the time; as a result of its rules; Wikipedia, is used as a write your own Mien Kamp forum for "The IWW"; "POV"; a clue, people read encyclopedia's; people have "POV". Totalitarian's do not read encyclopedia's; they do not have "POV"! My friends; you have been "Highjacked, not Freejacked"; & no matter what the "Nazi's" of this world tell you, trust me; "Life is not a dream". It would be nice; just for once; if "Ethics" took the place of "POV"; but i do addmit, "Totalitarianism" isn't "Ethical"; does "Wikipedia", have a problem with "Ethics". Either remove all inserts relating to the lack of live performance; or explain it properly; & truthfully; she was a young girl, thrown into a world of Killers; & she didn't have a clue. As a result, you have all the spinster; & old miad quips; "Fact"; a guy died; & like the Monica Seles stabing in tennis; it cost her half a lifetime; & her evolution of spirit.

'''Omitted live performance in main article- Kate appeared on stage with Peter Gabriel to perform 'Don't Give Up' on one night of his two or three date stint at Wembley Arena 1986/7. I was there but can't remember the date sorry!'''

The "Kate" of 1978; was, in "META" terms a fine malt whisky; say a "Bowmore 17y.o."; were-as; "Kate" of "Ariel", is a true matured, "Bowmore 1966, in Sherrywood". If only the "World" was a safe one; & she could feel free; & safe, to tour again; it would be superb. Alas, it ain't; "Safe"; "The World; That Is". So; she's great; she has a family; & she has the ability to enforce, her; & her families well-being; so as true fans; we get what we need; & not what we want. Lay of all the false repoting shit; & that goes to the window lickers; only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.17.225 (talk) 21:23, 10 October 2007 (UTC) As an apology to anyone of whom finds the frase "Window Licker"; in poor taste; "I", myself; have no room to lecture on "Fantasy Issues"; my issue is, us normal folk, keep ours, to, ourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.138.224 (talk) 22:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Seperate articles for albums?
This article could benefit from having the subsections on the albums made into seperate articles. Each subsection is comprehensive enought to form an articcle. Alan Liefting 03:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops! I see that there alredy seperate articles. Perhaps the extensive info on the Kate Bush page should be transfered to the album article pages. It would make this page a bit more balanced towards Kate Bush herself. Alan Liefting 03:40, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. I mean, we have all those pages for the seperate albums - we might as well use them and get some of the clutter off the main page! Stev0 07:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Inspiration/Covers
Just canvassing opinion, but does anyone think it worthwhile mentioning other dance artists who have built tracks around samples of Kate's work, a la Utah Saints? I have two such vinyl - Infusion who released a track called 'Running Up That Hill 2003' and Mighty High who released 'Here Again', with a vocal and dub mix built around 'The Man With The Child In His Eyes'. Both of these definitely feature Kate's original recordings. I realise that neither reached the popularity of 'Something Good', and there are probably many more tracks with a similar history, but I definitely think it is a point of interest. Plus, they are still for sale - Google to check it out! Twinstar 20:41, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Should Stevie Nicks really be listed as someone influenced by Kate? Several of her major works predate Kate's debut album. I don't think she's ever claimed to be influenced by Kate.

Wikitool?
Is there some sort of tool I can use (other than cutting and pasting the text and doing a global change in another editor) to correct all the Covers titles (ie, changing all the "Wuthering heights" (sic) to "Wuthering Heights")? Stev0 14:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Album pages text merge
In an effort to cut down the size of the article and at the same time eliminate redundancy, can anyone think why I shouldn't merge the text of each album with its respective page and delete the text (or at least trim it down considerably) off the main page? Stev0 19:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Do it. --mtz206 19:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Peer review with an eye to Featured status
This article is now very thorough and extensive. I would like to propose that it be submitted for peer review with an eye to being granted Featured Article status, but it needs more references.

Could I suggest that we all try to add the inline references which are needed, with an arbitrary deadline of the end of June? We could then review progress and then decide whether it is ready for peer review. - Stevecov 19:15, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * One possible issue with potential Featured Article status is in the "Kate Bush as an inspiration for other artists" lacks any links to the artists mentioned discussing Kate. For instance, someone has tried to add Madonna as being influenced by Kate...but I don't recall Madonna ever saying anything specifically about Kate. Claims should be verified.K8 fan 23:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * K.D. Lang has recently been removed from the list. But she does mention being into Kate in |this article. And in |this article on kdlang.com she says: "I really didn't start to like country music until around 1980. I actually leaned more towards being a singer/songwriter like Kate Bush. So, yeah, I only got into country in around '81 or '82." I'd describe that as a fairly clear influence.K8 fan 00:41, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Milla Jovovich should also be returned to the list. The very first result of a Google search of "Milla Jovovich" AND "Kate Bush" yielded |this interview where she says: "Kate Bush definitely inspired me when I was growing up. This first album definitely has a lot of that influence. I sound like her, but... it definitely has a Kate Bush influence." I don't think it gets any clearer than that. K8 fan 00:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Most of the artists removed from the list were sourced but the section didn't read well having such a long list so some of the less notable ones were removed. Epbr123 00:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Rather than arbitrarily removing artists who are definitely inspired by Kate Bush based on one person's idea of "notability", perhaps the section should include those who are most notably influenced by Kate Bush. For instance, Big Boi of Outkast is both astonishingly popular and a huge Kate Bush fan, going out of his way to mention her influence. K8 fan 01:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Checking again, I note that Outkast survived your purge. But Kate Bush has had a more profound influence on several of the artists that you removed than several of the ones you deleted. For instance, native alto Happy Rhodes (10 albums) trained her voice to hit the soprano range singing along to Bush's first album. K8 fan 01:51, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed Happy Rhodes because she was mentioned in the following covers section. Epbr123 01:58, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Nationality?
--89.240.143.179 22:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)==British or English?== We're have a very slow multiperson edit war here. Someone will change all the instances of "English" to "British" (And England to United Kingdom), then a few days later someone will change it back, then a few days later someone else will change it again.

Personally, I don't care (although I slightly favor English since that's more specific), as long as we can agree on what it is. Stev0 07:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, both are correct. And technically, both should be applied. English refers to people born in or living in England while British refers to people born in or living in Great Britain, i.e. England, Scotland, and Wales. Therefore, Bush is both English and British. As a native of the North of England, I've always refered to myself as English within the British Isles and British when outside the country in general. But ideally, the terms are interchangeable, and both should be listed in categories.

actually, British refers to anyone who lives in the united kingdom (even though northern ireland is not part of great britain). nationality of all uk citizens is British. Also, english is not a globally recognised nationality, similarly to the lack of regognition for the existance of the basque and bregton people. therefore, i think she should be listed as british.
 * Another revert war is going on, this time in the opening paragraph. True, all English singers are British singers by default.  To the folks in the pro-British (as opposed to English) camp, I ask:  British singers are human by default (with the exceptions of say, Mr. Blobby and Annoying Frog), so why not say "Human singer"? Stev0 15:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

This is important because its the first place I've actually read where she was born, and that she is English. Kate Bush and articles about her that I have read call her Irish. What with her brother being called Paddy I presume she is of Irish parentage/ancestry. So calling her English does 'something'. The article needs something in it to clarify how much she is Irish.Merkinsmum 23:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I have just checked, and edited. She has an English father and an Irish mother. Which means she may not wish to be called English, despite having been born here. Makes little sense to those outside the UK maybe. But then again, there's more mystique to being Irish/celtic.Merkinsmum 23:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

In response to: "Another revert war is going on, this time in the opening paragraph. True, all English singers are British singers by default.  To the folks in the pro-British (as opposed to English) camp, I ask:  British singers are human by default (with the exceptions of say, Mr. Blobby and Annoying Frog), so why not say "Human singer"? Stev0 15:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)" '''- because Wikipedia is an international body, and everyone in the world is a human being, but not everyone in the world is British you blithering merchant of piffle. All English singers are also only English "by default" ergo your own argument has defeated you and we shan't listen to your half-baked codswollop any longer. Huzzah!'''

Now, now! Manners are paramount, as all good English/British children are taught from infancy. Let us not descend into nasty vitriol like those folks who write on the discussion board of Tori Amos...Ygrasil 02:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Legally there is no such thing as Scottish, English, or Welsh citizenship or nationality. Kate Bush is a citizen of the United Kingdom. Insistence on calling people Welsh or English is a cultural identification, not a legal nationality or citizenship. Try finding an English passport - you can't, they don't exist.

It's as stupid as insisting that Wikipedia wipes out USA/America, or Australia, and favours the constituent state names such as New South Wales, or Ohio. The name of the country Kate Bush was born in and resides in is the United Kingdom. That is a legal fact. Insisting she is 'English' is a cultural and historic and personal, not a legal or administrative, identification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.230.53 (talk) 17:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Listen, this issue comes up again and again on all sorts of biographical articles. The general rule is don't change the article unless there's a good reason to, such as you can cite that the subject refers to him-/herself as a particular nationality (e.g., a cite showing that Kate refers to herself as British). In any case, please seek consensus on the article's talk page first (good luck with that!). See also UKNATIONALS ... richi (talk) 17:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Link Cleanup
A nice job was done with the link cleanup. However, two links I re-added: The HomeGround Magazine + Kate Bush News & Information Forum, since it's the largest and most active Kate forum, and rec.music.gaffa, the oldest Kate forum (and still very active - plus Usenet groups are always a good thing). I took out the link to the VRML site because, as far as I know, nobody uses VRML anymore. Stev0 16:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Inspiration
I just alphabetized the list of artists inspired by Kate because random lists are pretty pointless. However, do we really need 40+ artists here? Stev0 04:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I know what you mean. I think it would suffice it to say that many of today's artists consider her an inspiration and leave it at that.

"Deeper Understanding"
Has Kate Bush referred to this song in interviews or elsewhere as specifically representing the interpretation that is used in this article (reference to a world of the "future") or is it speculation on the part of the author? If the latter is the case, perhaps it would be better left out. AlexMondo 07:06, 23 September 2006 (UTC)AlexMondo


 * She was talking about the then-present times . Stev0 14:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand the dispute. Of course she was inspired by her own times, but the song clearly predicts a later phenomenon ("predicts" does not have to mean she intended such, only that it was alluded to and later occurred). As this is a notable fact (the record was made and a later trend echoed it's story) I really don't get the issue here or why it should be removed. Why is it better to "leave out" a historical set of facts that clearly informs the appreciation of a work of art? I did change the wording a little, hope it is better now.--Tednor 16:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Duplication?
There seems to be some duplication between the album subsections on this page and separate album pages such as The Kick Inside -- maybe the info on each album could be gathered together into one place.

Also, I remember that "Running up that hill" was a pretty big hit on New Wave radio stations in the U.S., and some people probably know Kate Bush from that song, rather than for "Wuthering Heights", but there's relatively little discussion of it on this page... AnonMoos 00:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC) "Running Up That Hill" received top 40 (not "New Wave" per se) radio play upon its release in 1985. Perhaps one of our chart spotting friends can give a reference to support this, but as someone who heard it first hand (and quite a few times) on top 40 station in Madison wI USA (never heard of kate before, and I'll never forget how the song knocked me out) I have put it in. --4.158.201.177 12:16, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Tour of Life dates - are they necessary?
An entire section devoted to just the list of places where she toured - right on the main page? Seems somewhat pointless. 2_of_8 04:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd say yes, only because she only ever gave one tour. If she ever tours again, then I agree it would be pointless. Stev0 19:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Wireless Radio Microphone
Someone has noted that a citation is needed for the claim "Bush was the first ever singer to use a wireless radio microphone on stage" in the Overview section. This information is confirmed on the following website: http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/pages/kate_bush/index.shtml. I know that's not the most ideal source, but should I go ahead and add the citation to the article for the time being?

76.168.253.250 22:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)Frank

Kate discussed the radio headset microphone with Philippe Badhorn in the French version of "Rolling Stone" magazine.

Philippe Badhorn: Is it true the head microphone was invented for you? To allow you to dance when singing during this tour? Kate Bush: Yes. A sound technician came along with this idea. I advised him to patent it. He answered: “how to patent this makeshift job made out of a coat-hanger?”.

But in an earlier interview, on the BBC program "Nationwide" Kate described how she had asked for something "...like a telephonist's headset". The initial idea appears to have been Kate's and the engineering by her sound engineer. I've not been able to find his name - I'll have to check my tour program. He was interviewed in "Nationwide" and had a Scotch accent.

Interviewer: How are you going to mic Kate so she can sing and dance at the same time? Scottish sound engineer: With a very small microphone. A small mic, on a boom arm (gestures from his ear to his mouth)

In a radio interview, possibly by Mark Radcliffe, Kate and the interviewer were laughing about the millions that could have been made by patenting the performance headset microphone.

Other performers had experimented with alternative microphone mountings, notably Todd Rundgren and his band Utopia had modified paper-clip style booklights, the lamps removed and replaced with microphones, clipped to the lapels of their jackets. But Kate was the first to mount it to a headset.K8 fan 20:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added the link to the French Rolling Stone interview as verification.K8 fan 04:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Following up, the sound engineer for the "Tour of Life", and builder of the headset was Gordon "Gungi" Paterson.K8 fan (talk) 21:31, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Musical Style
From the article: "In terms of genre, Bush is clearly part of the same British progressive rock movement that also gave rise to Genesis and Pink Floyd, although her musical style is a later manifestation of this school."

The American music magazine "Trouser Press" (I believe) reviewed "The Dreaming" and described it thus: "...what 'Progressive Rock' would have sounded like had it actually progressed.".K8 fan 21:34, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Is her current residence necessary?
A recent revision specifies the very tiny village she lives in. Is this strictly necessary? K8 fan 23:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not think the mentioning the recent storm mishap is necessary but her moving to this remote location fueled a lot of incorrect "recluse" press speculation during the twelve years between albums. Also Wikipedia correctly or incorrectly does put in celebrities addresses. I was shocked to see the addresses of President Bush's daughters place of residence listed. 69.114.117.103 07:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC) (Ed Kollin)
 * Yes, but they have the Secret Service.K8 fan 05:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * And people in the public spotlight may or may not hire security. Ms. Bush’s place of residence is very public knowledge. A good argument could be made that it should not be but that is not for Wikipedia to decide.  The only relevance here is does that information need to be included in order to have a full biographical summary. Another consideration is how "living biographies" deal with this topic.  69.114.117.103 09:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC) (Ed Kollin)

POV in the Sensual World article - "Lack of Clarity"
Isn't the comment that analogue overdubbing gives Sensual World a 'lack of clarity' a POV? The phrase 'a warmth not felt on some subsequent digital recordings' would be the opposing POV (that is to say, mine!). How about substituting something like analogue overdubbing creates a sound "considered by some to lack clarity, by others to possess a warmth missing from more precise digital recordings", with a link to Analog sound vs. digital sound ? --PRL1973 12:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PRL1973 (talk • contribs) 12:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC).
 * I've added a link to a review of the album in the audiophile magazine "The Absolute Sound" that focuses almost exclusively, and negatively, on the sound quality of this album.K8 fan 14:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for that, as I was the user who made that initial notation. "Clarity" and "Warmth" are NOT opposing sonic or aural qualities. Clarity is the precision which with a recorded sound can be identified and perceived as near or far, underwater or not, etc... Warmth is FAR more perceptual and relates as much to the musical qualities recorded as it does to the precision of the captured sonics. Anyone who thinks "The Sensual World" is a clear recording needs to stop listening exclusively to old 78 RPM discs or to have his hearing checked! In addition, we are not debating analogue vs. digital recording here, but rather making note that analogue OVERDUBBING comes at a price (sonic clarity), and that the song "The Sensual World" is one notable example of this fact.

SNL modifications
Just changed the wording a bit to tske out POV. The basic info IE she appeared and but not on the syndicated/video remains 69.114.117.103 04:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC) (Ed Kollin)
 * Actually, this is not definitive. Kate's appearance has been repeated. MTV Europe has shown the complete show. Also, NBC has been showing "classic" episodes in the slot following new ones. The Eric Idle/Kate episode has been repeated at least twice.K8 fan 14:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. Speaking of USA TV appearances do you know when and how often the Hammersmith Odean concert was broadcast on USA Network's Nightflight? I was a fan beforehand but clearly remember watching it on my 19 inch screen and getting increasing chills running down my spine. I also remember her being referred to as "The English Songbird" during that period of time but see minimal reference to that nickname on the net. 69.114.117.103 06:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC) (Ed Kollin)
 * No idea, though I remembered it being played fairly frequently. The producer of Night Flight, Cynthia Freedland, was definitely a fan (and should have conducted the notorious interview herself). Her production company had three shows on the USA network at one time, Night Flight, Heartlight City and Radio 1990, and Hammersmith Odean was a good way of filling 90 of the 3 or 4 hours they had.K8 fan 03:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Might be wrong as this was 25 years ago but I do think they only played part of the concert maybe a half hour. I remember "Wow","Babooska","Wuthering Heights", Her coming out of the "egg". Most of it is on you tube and "Feel It","L'Amour looks like you" and many others do not look familiar. The best thing about seeing it on Night Flight was as you probably know that it was an accident. She was to preform on the Queen Elizabeth but it was a no go due to mechanical issues so EMI distributed this film. Without that film Kate probably would be another "Where are they now" nostalgia question to me. There was just so much going on musically in that era she kind of got lost at the time. 69.114.117.103 06:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC) (Ed Kollin)
 * Yeah, EMI-America sent copies of "Hammersmith Odean" around as a "Video Tour". The QEII thing was never that clear, but my memory is that she was just going to travel via the QEII to the USA, not perform on the ship.K8 fan 07:30, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Here is a youtube link to the infamous "Live at 5" interview. The QE2 as well as the video are discussed. You are right in that it is unclear if she was to preform on board the ship Edkollin 06:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Um...yeah...that's my upload.K8 fan 06:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Kate Bush Under Review DVD
Article should mention that the DVD is available on YouTube and if what I have read is correct that EMI and Kate did not approve or endorse the DVD Edkollin 21:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Add inline citations NOW - GA nominated
I've just nominated this for good article status and it will fail unless inline citations are added all over the article. Here's how to add a citation: WP:CITET. It will be about a week until it's assessed so get Googling! Epbr123 21:36, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Photo needed
Does anyone have a photo of Kate taken by themselves? I don't think we can keep relying on publicity photos. Epbr123 13:02, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Video Projects
The section about "The Line, The Cross & The Curve" states: As of March 2007, none of Kate Bush's music videos have been released to DVD in either North America nor Europe (with the exception of a brief release of The Line, the Cross & the Curve).

To my knowledge this has never been released on DVD. It was released on VHS and Laserdisc, but a planned DVD release was scrapped. The engineer who was hired to perform the surround-sound mix was one day away from starting work when he received a call canceling the project. From the |post on quadraphonicquad.com:

Years ago I was hired to remix in 5.1 her film "The Line, The Cross & The Curve" for DVD release. Dreams of doing a great job and then getting to remix in surround "The Hounds Of Love", (1 of my top 3 or 4 favorites of all time), filled my head. Session time was booked, and I was good to go. The day before I was supposed to start, (at 6 PM no less), I got ''' That Call!!! '''. "Kate would like to wait until she's finished with her new album, so she won't be distracted from working on it." For a couple of years I checked back, but in the end I gave up. I'm hoping to be hearing from her soon... My guess is we will never hear anything from her in surround.

Unless someone can provide proof of an official release, this line should be removed. K8 fan 02:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

No middle name
The article now says that her middle name is "Mary". This is incorrect. She was asked in the early radio interview "Personal Call"

I just wondered what your middle name was?

''I haven't got one actually. I've got a confirmation name but that's not really an official name and that's Mary.''

Kate Bush's full name is Catherine Bush. K8 fan 17:53, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, so I've removed it. Epbr123 18:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * There is further confirmation in Fred Vermoral's "The Secret History of Kate Bush and the Strange Art of Pop" where he has a reproduction of her birth certificate. K8 fan 21:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Intro needs expansion
The lead could do with fleshing out, if anyone feels up to it. Epbr123 18:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

What EMI wanted as the very first single
The article states with a cite the EMI wanted "James and the Cold Gun" to be the first. I have read and heard several times it was "The Man with the Child in his Eyes". Edkollin 19:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Where did you read that? There are more sources in favour of "James and the Cold Gun" here and here. Epbr123 20:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The DVD "Kate Bush Under Review" claims this. I saw this recently on youtube and since this was the last reference to this topic my mind received I probably confused it with reading that "The Man with the Child in his Eyes" being the earliest written track on the Kick Inside . I know there is a web page with every conceivable interview she gave but I am not in the mood tonight to reread all of it to try and find that claim. I do want to relook at that again for more general purposes at some point so if I find a reference for it I will let you know. The problem I have with that page is that it gets tiring after reading the 20th time about how she was discovered by David Gilmore Edkollin 06:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

My Gilmour's correct name (includes a Stupid Mistake by a Brazilian Jerk & The Gilmores-Gilmours Clan Counter attack)
Dear Kate Bush fans,Pink Floyd fans & Wikipedians:let me introduce some information:the correct suedename is "Gilmour".The last two letters of Mr. Gilmour's suedename (the suffix "UR") are a proof of Armenian ethnical herritage.I'm hope to be usefull.{Bryard 01:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)} —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryard (talk • contribs)
 * The surname Gilmore is Ulster Irish; whereas Gilmour is Scottish. How does Armenia fit in with a name which is MacGiolla-Mhuire in Irish Gaelic? I should know; Gilmore was my mother's maiden name and that side of her family (The Gilmores) originally came from Coleraine,Co.Derry,Northern Irelandjeanne (talk) 17:50, 27 April 2008 (UTC) !!

I agree with you, but when I gave that piece of information, I had two intentions:1st: correct Mr. Gilmour's name.2nd: When I gave that information, I make a little extrapollation of orgin of name, based in Heraldics.For the example, my maternal suedename in portueguese is Mascarenhas,in Spanish is Mascarenãs, in Basque is Mascarenas, in Kurdish is Mascarenes,etc...But is only a speculation of my part, because I used the rules of Heraldics of Middle East and Iberic Countries (Portugal & Spain).I just not conciderated the idea of self afirmation.For the example, if you identified yourself as a Britsh citzen, I have the legal and moral obligation to respect your opinion.And if you said the name Gilmour is Scottish, I belive you.Maybe the fall of that mistake is all mine.But some journalists in the end of 80's maded a lot of consideration and speculations when David Gilmour cooperate with Cher and other artists with an event and a disc called Armenia Aid.In any way, I'm apologise.I never had any intention to ofend you.I'm sincerelly have a great respect for Great Britain and Ireland.I promise you to check my informations on the next time.It's serious, you make me blush with my mistake!...Sorry for that...{Bryard 00:35, 2 May 2008 (UTC)}
 * I was never offended. I have nothing against Armenia nor the Armenian people. I just wanted to explain the origins of my mother's surname as it's one of the oldest in the Irish province of Ulster.jeanne (talk) 06:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for you compreension.By the way:if you need any info about Kate Bush discography in Brazil, just let me know.Bye bye {Bryard 19:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)}

Kate's invention of headset performance microphone
Since the "Tour of Life" information has been moved to a separate page, her invention of the headset performance microphone is no longer in the main article. I believe this fact should be moved back into the main article, as the invention of the headset performance microphone may prove to be Bush's most long-lasting contribution to music. Bush's headset was made from a wire hanger and a Sony ECM-50 microphone, a model usually attached to a lapel. No company manufactured a headset for singers before Kate's invention (I believe Shure was the first, a year later). Kate's appearance at the Tokyo Song Festival demonstrates what performers had to use if they wished to have their hands free - in this video a standard "ball" type microphone is on a lanyard around her neck, disguised by a big bow. After the "Tour of Life", and commercial availability, other singers like Madonna adopted it. But it is definitely Kate's invention, and it is an important one. K8 fan 06:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It is actually mentioned in the 1978-1979 section. Epbr123 10:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it should be moved the "Impact" section, as the invention has had a more substantial and lasting impact than any other aspect of her career. K8 fan 23:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a lot of people would disagree that it's had a bigger impact than her music. It wasn't actually her who invented it and someone else would have probably eventually invented it anyway. It is now mentioned in the lead, so it's more prominant than it was. Epbr123 13:42, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Her music has had a great impact on my life and on a huge number of other people, especially singer/songwriters. But her invention of the headset microphone has impacted every genre of music. She did invented it, though her engineer actually constructed it - but that is the difference between invention and engineering, the inspiration is the invention (much like how sculptors often don't actually fabricate large metal works - the welder is not credited as the sculptor). As for the claim that somebody else may have eventually invented it, true. But my definition of "invention" is "the previously non-existent blindingly obvious". It didn't exist before Kate, she came up with the idea, it existed after Kate, huge numbers of performers from country to gospel to Broadway now use them. K8 fan 14:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * If you'd like to move it, I won't stop you. However, I doubt she was the very first person in the world to consider the idea of a hands-free microphone. Epbr123 15:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Prior to the "Tour of Life", singing drummers like Levon Helm used microphones on boom arms. Broadway shows used "tie-tack" style microphones on clothing. I can prove Kate's priority by when the first advertisement for a performance headset microphone appeared in "Mix" magazine. I was a sound engineer at the time, and in my experience, nobody had a performance headset microphone before Kate's invention. Kate herself acknowledges this in the French Rolling Stone interview when she jokes about the millions she lost by not patenting it. I'll write something more extensive later today. K8 fan 16:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I've located contact information for the sound engineer for the tour, Gordon "Gungi" Paterson. Hopefully he has some additional information. K8 fan 05:09, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

GA review
Once the first two points are fulfilled, I'll pass this article. MahangaTalk 21:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Considering how long the article is, the lead could use some expansion. Maybe one or two more paragraphs. See for example, Michael Jordan.
 * Also, images need fair use rationale.
 * Something to consider, if you plan on taking it to FAC, is the size. At 73kb, it's cutting it close. Michael Jordon is 70kb and there was a lot of debate over it's size.
 * Pass! MahangaTalk 03:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * All the links to Gaffaweb were removed in a recent edit, presumably in the quest for Featured Article status, and worries about copyright violations. But as the sources linked to not available in any other form, is Featured Article status worth it compared to the lessened usefulness of the entry? K8 fan 22:07, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think anyone interested in Kate would easily find Gaffaweb through Google. Reaching FA status is worth it; it would give her a lot of publicity if we get her featured on the main page. Epbr123 22:16, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Given a choice between a truly useful article on Kate Bush, and one that is less useful but is featured on the front page of Wikipedia (does anyone visit WP other than via Google search?), personally I'd rather have the former. The "people can search Google" argument can be applied to every single article on WP. K8 fan 22:45, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think we have a choice anymore. We'd be forced to remove the link anyway. Epbr123 22:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This is just odd. Both "Mojo" and "Q" (two British music mags) have published links to Gaffaweb. Neither seemed to object enough to the fact that their copyrighted material was also on Gaffaweb to not list it. Any resource on Kate Bush that doesn't list it is less than complete. K8 fan 04:00, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

The Eras of Kate Bush's Career
Since the article has broken her career down into sections I thought I would give my POV on this not as a recommendation per se but just raw food for thought

1978-1980 Her Beatlemania Period. Loved by both sexes,press following every move,many television specials etc.

1981-1986 Bush dives into the synth era and is discovered by America. The article is not wrong in that by 1980 she was experimenting with synth. Although The Dreaming was not a American commercial success the EMI America release of her "video tour" started the process.

1987-1994 Increasing Influence, Commercial Decline. The solo female singer songwriter thing becomes big (Tori,Alanis,Jewel etc)

1995-2004 Disappearance. The Rumors, Q-Awards,becoming a mommy etc. This would be a brief section.

2005-New Generations discover Kate (older ones rediscover). Ariel. YouTube and other Web 2.0 advances make her old stuff available (for the first time in America for a lot of it)with the click of a mouse,Lyra fails expectations, 50th birthday retrospectives Edkollin 07:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Picture
Could someone upload the topmost image to the  Commons? In that way Wikipedias in all languages could use it. –Finlux 23:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It has now been uploaded to the Commons. Epbr123 23:52, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! Finlux 23:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow
Congratulations everyone! This is now a Featured Article. Epbr123 22:34, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Residence
The two sources listed here for a single residence contradict one another. I'm not sure if she has homes in both Devon and Berkshire or has moved. Perhaps someone could check it out. Verica Atrebatum 10:45, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The 'Kate Bush and the war of Wuthering Heights' reference says that she has two houses. Epbr123 15:45, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
Cleaned up new section. Took out non USA Today POV. Asked for citation for Rolling Stone Magazines acknowledgment of her influence and the U.S.A. Today quote.

I think this belongs but am not sure where. "Trivia" is not the right word for discussion of male treatment of female artists.

Also remember that Rolling Stone Magazine is American. If you are from the U.K. it is hard to remember how under the radar she is here (or visa-versa). I have seen many postings from American fans that do not realize that Ariel came out or state that they did not know about her until their boyfriend/girlfriend told them about her. While Americans critics do know about her the lack of publicity/popularity means she is not something that would jump out when putting together a Top 100 list. My guess is that if one person in a room of knowledgeable Americans would mention her a "Its so obvious why did I not think of her" moment would occur. Edkollin 09:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There appears to be a revert war going on. The information might be welcome, but integrated into the correct section, not pasted in as "trivia". Rolling Stone was, at one point, a very influential critical forum, and as a long-time reader, they seem to have a willful blindness towards Kate Bush, avoiding reviewing several of her albums. At one point, they even printed an outright lie about the ill-fated "Prince's Trust Rock Gala" performance of "Babooshka" where both straps of her top broke. RS claimed that her breasts were exposed, which anyone who has actually seen the video can confirm did not happen. But Rolling Stone lost all critical standing when a number of their staff critics, in a truly amazing display of ass-kissing, voted the only song publisher Jann Wenner ever produced (Boz Skaggs' "Loan Me A Dime") as their "top rock song". Few have cared what Rolling Stone had to say about music since. David Frick is their only decent critic left, and he gets 4 to 6 column inches an issue. K8 fan 05:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Even though I agree with some of it, it is original research and POV. Contributing editor has now received a warning.  Vacant Stare 07:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

In March of this year the National Association of Record Manufacturers and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame released a top 200 albums list. No Kate Bush Albums were listed. The top female album was Carole King's Tapestry at number 7. A fair representation of albums by current era females such as Norah Jones,Lauryn Hill and The Dixie Chicks were listed Edkollin 06:07, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Inspiration?
The inspiration section mentions many people, few of whom seem to actually have demonstrably been influenced by her work. Johnny Rotten says she's fucking brilliant (and he's dead right), but where's the influence? Others have included her songs on albums/playlists, but, again, no obvious influence. KB's music has influenced most of us here in some way or another, but that is not what this section is meant (IMHO) to be about. Anyone agree that it needs pruning?

The John Lennon addition today seems barely credible, BTW. Vacant Stare 15:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably no artist has been influenced by her in the proper sense, not even Tori Amos. Most of the artists in that list are, however, claimed by newspapers and magazines as being influenced by her. Maybe the section should be renamed something like "famous people who have at sometime said nice things about her." Epbr123 17:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe. :-) Maybe the section should just be removed?  Learning that George Michael and Johnny Rotten think she's brilliant is interesting in a Hello! magazine kind of way, but... 81.151.33.104 17:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Has there been any comment in the U.K. press talking about how since the media frenzy and success of Ariel the British charts have been topped by many female singers and groups with very individualistic styles such as Lilly Allen,Amy Winehouse or even The Pippetts and Puppini Sisters? Edkollin 06:17, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Birthplace
I just stumbled across a claim by Kate in the first issue of her fan club Newsletter:

''I was born in a nursing home in Erith, Kent, while my parents were living where they are now, in Welling. The date was July 30th, 1958''

For years, the canonical answer was "Bexleyheath Maternity Hospital". Anyone from the area confirm the relationship of Erith to Bexleyheath? K8 fan 18:38, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Erith and Bexleyheath are neighbouring towns. Bexleyheath is the largest town in the area so it's possible that the whole area, including Erith, could have sometimes been referred to as Bexleyheath. So Bexleyheath Maternity Hospital may actually have been in Erith. We have to find out where exactly Bexleyheath Maternity Hospital is or was. Epbr123 18:55, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Live Performances Rumor
This section contains a cited web rumor stating she might return to live performances. Has there been further rumors or confirmation of this?. As is stands at this point this is not article worthy. Edkollin 21:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It's been removed. Epbr123 21:40, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A belated thank you Edkollin 02:11, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Sensual World
It has been forgotten that "Never be mind" features the world famous artist and harpist, Alan Stivell.86.203.120.119 09:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I wonder why. Epbr123 09:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * At one point, Kate Bush was planning to produce an album by Stivell, but nothing came of it. K8 fan 14:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Has she been affected by the floods?
This article has a link to to a October 2006 article stating that she could face a £100,000 bill after a weir collapsed, sending a torrent of water into a canal and sinking a narrowboat. As you may know this summer England has been hit by the worst flooding in that country in 60 years. The Wikipedia Article on the floods while not mentioning her property specifically mentions Berkshire where one of her residences which according to the article is a private Island (not the place you want to be in a major flood) is located. Any further information? Edkollin 04:52, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Today's featured article
Kate will be Wikipedia's "Today's featured article" on 30th July 2007. Epbr123 14:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Before this is on the Main Page, would it be possible to get a sample or two of some of her major works? 17Drew 15:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Hounds of Love recording site
Hallo, glad to see Kate featured, but according to the liner notes to the original vinyl, which I own, of The Hounds of Love, the entire album was recorded at EMI studios at Abbey Road, not in some private studio she had built. Which is the error? Clevelander96 01:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * According to the Q magazine article Sleeve Notes, the recording of the album started at Abbey Road, but soon moved to Kate's own studio behind her family home East Wickham Farm. The article describes the work at Abbey Road as "doodling". She has returned to Abbey Road to record orchestral parts, and of course to film the video for "Sat In Your Lap". K8 fan 02:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Please Clarify
"Bush's use of acoustic percussion textures throughout the years have been cited as the reason electronic drum machines became commonplace in popular recordings.[53]"

If this sentences means what it apparently means, it should be deleted for its utter preposterousness.ChristophMartel 06:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * .. not to mention its, er, ungrammaticalness AndrewWTaylor 09:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The statement has been removed pending further research and rewording. Epbr123 09:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Second "side" of "Hounds of Love"
...is about a woman drowning at sea?!? I've never heard THAT one before. My understanding is quite different from that interpretation. Am I the only one? Denimadept 21:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ISTR that this is a widely-held interpretation, backed up by the sleeve art ... richi 21:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If so, people take things waaaaay too literally. I wonder how those people account for the issue of the child who is clearly drowning. Denimadept 21:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Kate has discussed this many times, although she was usually very coy about the fate of the protagonist of the song. In the "Night Flight" interview she said "I thought it was about someone not drowning". But it definitely is about a person in the water. She even made two pieces of art on the same theme, a pair of frames filled with black velvet with a single small flashing light in the middle of each entitled "Someone Lost At Sea Signalling A Plane For Help" and "A Plane At Night Searching For Someone Lost At Sea". One theory, which has not been confirmed by Kate, is that the album was inspired by stories of people caught in the 1979 Fastnet race disaster. K8 fan 22:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The child is the child she will have if she survives the night until the plane finds her, pleading with her to hold on so the child can exist. She sees this whole life that will never exist if she falls asleep and drowns. K8 fan 22:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * A child goes out ice skating alone on thin ice and falls through. The singer falls asleep and is somehow linked to the drowning child.  She wanted to relieve the child of this horrible fate, but the child reproves her that it's not her place to do so.  It's the child's experience, and it's not for the singer to take it away.  The child drowns in the end, as the singer is unable to save it, no matter how guilty the singer feels about this.  Then the singer wakes up from the sleep those who love her couldn't wake her from.  I would have thought I was stating the obvious until I read that bit about a woman drowning in the ocean!  Denimadept 22:53, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * See the section on "The Ninth Wave" on Gaffaweb for a bunch of discussion about the song suite, as well as the following section on the Fastnet disaster. K8 fan 23:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Need to call Berkshire Police
A user on youtube named maxipaparazzi has posted within the last day or so a video taken with a long range lens aimed through her window of Kate Bush's son watching television. The area's internet reporting service is down and as I am in America I could be of little help. This is the link to the area police. Let's get this creep off the streets.
 * This is an odd edit to a talk page.....  you might like to try emailing them? I haven't seen the video yet, and I don't quite see what is illegal about this. But then again, I'm hardly a lawyer in Britain! Mathmo Talk 07:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes its odd. As I said the internet reporting service is down they do give phone numbers but I do not want to be questioned about a phone call to England. I guessed many editors are from England and it might be simple for them to call. Pappazzi and celebrities who like that sort of thing are one thing spying on somebody's kid is wrong and creepy even if it is seemingly innocuous. I do not know British law either and maybe nothing can be done but I felt that it was not my job to say nothing can be done that is up to the proper authorities. The reason I used this talk page I've made some edits here so I know a lot of the editors are passionate fans who might be offended.
 * I've posted about this on the Homeground/Kate Bush News and Information forum, and hopefully something will be done about it. The description text references Fred Vermoral, the writer of two books about Kate who appears to have crossed the line of acceptable journalistic practices on several occasions regarding Kate. K8 fan 17:40, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The video has been removed.K8 fan 02:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you K8 fan for your help on this matter. I have a couple of more requests That if possible Kate’s security is made aware of this matter if they have not been already. That the Homeground forum be made aware that you got the information about the video from an American who wishes to remain anonymous  and that he thanks all those on the forum that helped with this. This is my FINAL word on this matter.
 * Del Palmer reads the Forum, so he is aware of it, and a couple of the people on the Forum have his e-mail address (I don't). I'll pass along the info. Thanks for spotting this. K8 fan 07:10, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Personal Information
We ought to have a separate section that divulges her personal information, such as who she's had sexual relationships with and if she's married. Whether that information is included within the general timeline I don't know because I got too bored searching and searching. Renfield 17:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a lack of reliable sources regarding her sexual relationships and marital status, plus WP:BLP discourages the coverage of personal information unless it's notable. Epbr123 21:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a cite in the article from the Evening Standard that she is married to Danny McIntosh. I remember reading about a year ago in one of the websites that has endless interviews with her a 1980 interview in which she said she had many boyfriends. The material in her music of the era suggests experience. But I am just not interested enough to try and track that down. A section of the nature would very short indeed as her efforts at privacy have been remarkably successful. Edkollin 19:44, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * During her last visit to meet the Queen of England, she displayed a large diamond ring on her left "ring" finger, the traditional location for English brides to wear wedding bands. But as she has not chosen to reveal this information in any interview, or to her fan club, there is no way to confirm or deny this. Macintosh has never been interviewed. As she managed to keep the birth of her son a secret for 18 months from a very avid fan base, Bush may very well be a world's champion at keeping secrets*, and if the music thing ever falls through, she could have a fruitful career as a spy.K8 fan 20:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This article says says they are married. This seems to need a some sort of revision. The visit to the Queen if it came since 2005 should be briefly noted. This would go with stuff I put in for 2007 which showed the in the post Ariel period she has not been in the near total seclusion as she was before Ariel. A spy as she would say "eh no" that would mean she would actually have to disclose information to her employers but the MI5 could use her as a distraction. Edkollin 03:00, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The absense of any substantial personal information makes the entry have something of the 'marketing press release' feel to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.12.232 (talk) 00:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I located an image of Kate visiting Buckingham Palace where the diamond ring on her left "ring" finger is visible, supporting the idea that she is married.K8 fan (talk) 21:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Greatest Cover of All Time for Rocket Man
Kate Bush News and Information website is reporting that her cover of the Elton John classic is about to win The Observer readers award for Best Cover of all time. I put it in the awards and nominations article and the Rocket Man article but not in this one Edkollin 06:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Del Palmer
Editors here may be interested in working to improve Del Palmer or taking part in a deletion discussion about the article: see Articles for deletion/Del Palmer (second nomination). Bondegezou 11:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Removed from the article
Regarding this edit :

This sounds implausible to me; for example, if it's a documentary, why are the characters fictional? Other things also ring oddly, such as the typo in what presumably should be "June Whitfield", and the use of the term "the ITV", which is unusual and not the standard British usage of "ITV". A search for '"june whitfield" "kate bush" assault' finds nothing resembling this, using either "Whitfield" or "Whitefield". This definitely needs backing up with a cite if it is to be restored to the article. -- The Anome 20:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Followup: the removed text was made from a vandalism-only account which I have now blocked indefinitely. -- The Anome 20:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Come Back Kate
I added this fan documentary to the article and am proud to say we have it posted before Kate Bush News and Information. Does anybody have more information about this or if there will be other showings?. Are there plans to have play on cable tv?. It seems based on the web description it was filmed before the release of Aerial Edkollin 04:58, 16 November 2007

Proposal
I propose to add a subsection under the Impact section titled "Inspiration for fans" or something like that to try to fit mention of this documentry. This was deleted from the 1995-Present section due to it was not directly work by her. Just because this does not fit neatly into the sections as now set up does not mean it should not be in her article. If there are no objections I plan to add this in a week or so A documentary about her fans Come Back Kate made its debut at the International Documentary Film Festival in Amsterdam which ran from 22 November to 2 December 2007. Edkollin (talk) 07:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I decided to a link to this under further reading Edkollin (talk) 05:14, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Did Kate Bush Start her own Social Network
Anyone aware that Kate Bush has started her own social network, mimicking Myspace, called My.katesapce.cc, in which she assumes the role of 'Tom' as linchpin/moderator of the site ?:

"''the purpose of this page is to make a system similar to http://www.myspace.com where Kate has the same function as Tom has in myspace. Please register yourself and take a look around. There's lots to see and do, so take your time, meet some new friends, and make yourself at home." (This was taking directly from the log-in page) '' From what I can gather, its earnest beginnings were in September this year. The URL is referenced on her Official Myspace fanpage. As I see no reference to this endeavor here in Wikipedia, one has to wonder its validity to its relation with Kate Bush herself. Any way this can be found out? Regretably; probably not; she keeps herself to herself; & with good reason, "This is "UK" guys; if she had not gone into hiding, some fantic would have; at the very least; given the waif a fright"; & thats the fact; "If we the public, want to see more; "UK"; will have to change; & since "Thatcher" left; it [UK] has done nothing in reality, but socially decline. I do think fans including myself need to realise this; "How long would she have lasted as a "Kylie", before she became a "Sharon Tate". I for one would rather "Ariel" be her last album; than read, or hear, of some injury to the lady, as a result of giving her fans a a glimer.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.170.54.91 (talk) 03:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Roy Harper Album - HQ
I know Bush and Harper have done a few things together, but what was her contribution to the album HQ?

Infl. on metal
Didn't Kate Bush also have some infl. on metal? I've heard she influenced (partly) bands like Bathory and Emperor. That may sound crazy, especially since those bands were black metal bands, but it even mentiuons this in Ian Christe's book, Sound of the Beast, a book about heavy metal and I can assure you the book is a pretty good source (that book is often used as a source for heavy metal articles; just look up heavy metal and look at the article's sources). 76.105.40.151 (talk) 22:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You can use the book itself as a cite. If you are unsure of how to do this the Alternative Rock article uses several books as cites. Unless it says so in the book itself I would not write in the article that she influenced metal as a whole but I would add the two bands to the Inspiration for Other Artists section using the book as a cite. Actually it is not that surprising. "Don’t Push your foot on the Heartbreak" and "Hammer Horror" are damm fine metal songs Edkollin (talk) 08:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks 76.105.40.151 (talk) 21:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You are welcome Edkollin (talk) 05:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Magician of Lublin
I noticed that in the movie section there is no mention of her contribution to "The Magician of Lublin" with Alan Arkin and Valerie Perrine. I don't know the name of the song and I don't know if it is available anywhere else but it was a very haunting song. I also don't see any mention though I may have missed it, to the fact that her musicians for the first two albums were essentially the Alan Parsons Project without Alan Parsons. Keep up the good work. Chuckpwhite (talk) 06:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)chuckpwhite

Opening
I noticed that the opening to the article seems a bit long - surely this is intended to be just an opening paragraph to explain who Kate Bush is? Since the article has been starred I'll leave it, but certainly a reference to Utah Saints here is not important enough in her career in my opinion. I've also edited very slightly changing examples of songs such as "The Wedding List" being listed as an all-out rocker, where I think "Violin" is a much better example. Hope nobody minds, but feel free to change it back if the author wishes. The article on the whole is excellent. Well done. --Tuzapicabit (talk) 01:28, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Wuthering Heights release date
"The Whole Story" states that Wuthering Heights was released in November '77. Does this mean that the March '78 issue was a re-release? Anybody know? If this is true perhaps it should be mentioned--Tuzapicabit (talk) 22:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sugest to u enter in Del Palmer site.I guess he have the correct answer.Good luck,{Bryard 14:46, 06 May 2008 (UTC)}


 * Here is one account of events: . Not much of a reliable source by Wikipedia standards, but seems like the writer knows what he is talking about. Weregerbil (talk) 05:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Got an email the other day from a fan who runs a KB site and indeed this is true. 4 Nov 77 was the scheduled date, but was put back because Kate wanted to change the picture sleeve. So it was never released (apart from promotional copies), so not really worth putting in.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 22:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Heads we're dancing
IIRC, it has been said that this song is actually about a friend or relative of Kate's encounter with Robert Oppenheimer, and that the name was changed to avoid causing offence to his relatives.

This makes sense; Opppenheimer was a 'charmer' and was fascinated by the laws of chance. Walking-up to a lady, tossing a coin and saying, 'Heads we dance' would be exactly in-character. Whereas, the attributes mentioned in the song make no sense at all when applied to Herr Schickelgruber. --Anteaus (talk) 11:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Them Heavy People
Nothing said in article about her huge UK hit in September 1979 "Them Heavy People"? Not only was the song brilliant but so was the video.The song is about some Japanese philosophy in facing one's fears and overcoming them.jeanne (talk) 17:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Kashka from Baghdad
I looked up "Kashka" and I found no references to it being a name for a male (except in Nigeria, which seems a bit far from Iraq...). So why does the article include the song in the "taboo subject" paragraph? I believe the "gay" reference should be removed - makes perfect sense for it to be a female (unmarried would be unlawful in Islamic countries). --David Be (talk) 20:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There are some sources here and here. Epbr123 (talk) 00:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Come Back Kate should be put back in

 * Helena Muskens, Quirine Racké Come Back Kate. Film documentary about her fans. Dutch TV airing 11 April 2008 . Belfast Film Festival 18 April. .Warsaw DocReview festival May 2008 . Melanie Nelson who was featured in the film claims she was deceived by the filmmakers and misrepresented in the documentary.

The above was taken out because it "seemed" unnecessary. The devotion of her fan base is often noted and this documentary although not technically "reading" does what the further reading section is supposed do that is add detail that a casual article reader might not want.

Rant: I see a “cleanup” is under way. First of all major changes like this should never be done without discussing them in the Talk Page. In editing several Wikipedia articles over the years these “cleanups” is the situation I most dread. Most of the time they are needed and most of changes are long overdue. And I like some of the changes here. But the problem results when editors (including yours truly) get in the zone and start getting carried away and start cutting things that “seem” wrong. The only reason to delete things is because there a consensus to do so or it violates a rule. It is easy to cut. It is harder to go back to the archives and start putting back things that were improperly cut. Edkollin (talk) 07:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * List the documentary as a source if necessary, but there's no need to go into detail about it on this article. "Further reading" sections just require basic source formatting (author, title, publisher, etc). The thing is it was added so recently it doesn't seem like anything was sourced from it, so there was no point in keeping it. But if you've seen the documentary and there's something worth using, feel free to work it in. WesleyDodds (talk) 08:18, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Edkollin, feel free to let us know if there's anything else you want returned to the article, and we'll discuss it. Epbr123 (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * For everybody's information the documentary is on YouTube and has been a subject of discussion and controversy on Kate Bush fan websites. With a book you can source the ISDN number but how do let those interested in seeing the documentary that plays occasionally at film festivals or on TV without going into detail? Edkollin (talk) 06:39, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * List director, title, company, and year of release, at minimum. I've always found listing the source information for television documentaries difficult though, because it's hard to find precedents around Wikipedia, oddly enough. However, what the fansites think of the documentary is irrelevant for the purposes of this article. WesleyDodds (talk) 07:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes it is difficult that is why I asked the questions but there is no reason why documentaries should not be in. Edkollin (talk) 07:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Occupations - Dancer?
An editor added "dancer" as one of her occupations in the background section. Another editor deleted it saying it was not one of her "main" occupations. I agree with addition not the deletion. Although her "dancing" is not in a dance company but in video's and concerts it is a main part of her public persona. Edkollin (talk) 05:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi there. I'm the bloke who deleted it but I won't make a fuss if more people decide it's warranted. My point is that the infoboxes are always a summary of a person's career or makeup and one needs to know where to stop - the other items mentioned seem much bigger parts of her skillset. However, like I said, not a big deal. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I say it shouldn't be there. She's a singer. If she danced seperately from this, then yes - but she doesn't. Lots of artists dance in their videos and on stage (the article isn't to judge how well she dances).--Tuzapicabit (talk) 07:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Didgeridoo?
Has Kate played Didgeridoo on one of her albums? I'm not aware of this as I thought Rolf Harris had played it? Perhaps she learnt the instrument, but unless she's actually played it in a professional capacity, surely this shouldn't be listed in the infobox?--Tuzapicabit (talk) 07:26, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Believe you're right, even if she can play it herself she's not credited with doing so on any of her albums as far as I can see - removing it. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:56, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There might be some confusion because her brother Paddy Bush has also played Didgeridoo on her recordings (The Big Sky).K8 fan (talk) 05:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

That BBC Christmas Perfomance
Why is that section 'in and out' of the article? It seemed, at least to me, to be relevant, especially considering how few live performances Bush has given and have been recorded. Stephenjh (talk) 21:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Other then needing citing I really don't know what everybody has against it. Edkollin (talk) 04:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Then maybe it should be reverted. I don't want to start an edit war etc... but there was no discussion or any good reason given for it's deletion. As for a citation, it's on YouTube so it's existence isn't in question, what other kind of validation / citation is required? Stephenjh (talk) 05:51, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's a citation if needed http://gaffa.org/passing/v79_dec.html I would insert it myself but the coding for references / citations seems to have gotten a little beyond me! Stephenjh (talk) 05:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Successfully added citation. Stephenjh (talk) 23:45, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the citations.Edkollin (talk) 00:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Although it is within the rules It is disrespectful to delete something without giving a reason. I don't like edit wars either but sometimes when this happens my first reaction if I feel strongly about the addition is to treat the deleter the way I was treated and put it right back Edkollin (talk) 00:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

No DVD videography
An editor has added a good faith edit a true statement that No DVD videography has been released. I do not believe that something that did not occur is article worthy Edkollin (talk) 06:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it might be worth mentioning that none of her videos have been released on DVD, because a reader might come to page specifically looking to see which DVDs she's released. The IP's edits do need rewording though. Epbr123 (talk) 09:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Kate Bush's father
Kate Bush's father has apparently passed. Should this wording in the early life section "English physician Robert Bush" be changed to "the late English physician Robert Bush" Edkollin (talk) 07:44, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

An unnamed editor put the phrase "late" in and I took it out as there are still issues here and no consensus.

Issue 1: The word was put in without a cite. Can't do that. The cite I used was from a fan website not usually considered a reliable source. The fact that several posters claimed they got MySpace messages from Del Palmer and that that website is tightly run MIGHT be a reason to invoke the common sense clause.

Issue 2: There are strong indications Bush does not want this public. This has not been published in the media so it has not been released to them or possibly they are agreeing to withhold the information. Deaths are public information are we under any obligation here to respect privacy wishes or should an obligation to be factual for our readers or come first?

Issue 3: Is this relevant information? How does other articles treat this situation?

While I strongly believe the man has died I am conflicted over these issues. Edkollin (talk) 07:43, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I am the unamed editor who put late in - it is relevant information and is contained in many other articles. The news has been reported in the media and is not held as a secret. You mention there are "issues here " and "no consenus" - ummmmmmmmmwhere? there was one comment before you. (81.151.249.33 (talk) 10:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC))
 * I'd slightly misunderstood the insertion of "late" before the mention of her father's name, believing his death must have been mentioned and cited later in the article - hence my contention in an edit summary that its use was "unnecessary". Now I see the above discussion and have found that his death is not mentioned or cited elsewhere in the article, I agree with Edkollin that "late" must be removed simply because it's unsourced, if for no other reason. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is what did Del Palmer mean by respecting privacy in the myspace posting?. In the U.S. if somebody dies respecting privacy usually means keep the cameras away, the medical issues leading to the death should not be printed nor funeral burial information etc. Information of death is usually not withheld unless next of kin have not been notified or that safety of others might be at stake. However Bush's is notable for keeping privacy and news of the birth of her son was withheld for two years. Added that the lack of news is why I strongly believe they wanted news of his death withheld. One thing bothers me though. If the intent to keep it private why let they let the message board discussion go on?  Although not in the news it is public information which is why I felt I should discuss it here. Putting it as a myspace bulletin although supposedly private was a dicey proposition. Tabloid reporting of Lily Allen's supposedly on and relationship is being driven by her my space bulletins to "friends" Edkollin (talk) 17:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

The Wedding List performance at The Prince's Trust
IanRose recently deleted the following:

This one-off performance became notorious for her "wardrobe malfunction" when both shoulder straps of her top broke during her performance of "The Wedding List"; Bush carried on with the song, holding the offending item to her chest, before taking a very shallow bow. Townshend covered her quick exit with a "Whoops!"

...stating "no support for claim of notoriety of this interesting, but unencyclopedic tidbit". That's not correct. It was notorious enough for Rolling Stone magazine to mention it at the time. I can't find it on their site, as their search index does not include any magazine content predating the creation of their web site. It was widely reported in the UK press at the time, but I don't have access to UK newspaper archives. But the video clip is proof of what happened. I own the program on PAL VHS and NTSC CED video disc. Is there a format for citing video clips? K8 fan (talk) 05:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * "No support ..."? Joking aside, the video is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAO5CLyUH3Y&feature=related but I wouldn't cite that. I will try to find other printed references today. Sswonk (talk) 13:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Outside of using cite video and properly entering as much information as possible, there is not much other than mirror sites and passing mentions in blogs on this. Searching 20 minutes only turned up one link, http://www.virginmedia.com/music/pictures/profiles/kate-bush.php?ssid=6. The editor who removed the passage was, not IanRose, and that editor calls the mention "unencyclopedic" in the summary. It might best be left out at this time until research supporting your "widely reported" claim can provide proper printed sourcing with author, date, publication for a few UK press accounts. Sswonk (talk) 14:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Folks, my removing the mention does not infer that I don't believe it actually happened. I watched the video. Yes, the strap of her dress snapped off. The point is, unless reliable sources made non-trivial mention of this event, it simply isn't worth mentioned in an encyclopedia article attempting to chronicle this person's life. Clearly this didn't have the kind of cultural/global/political impact as the Janet Jackson/Justin Timberlake event. Interesting? Sure. Verifiable? Sure. Encyclopedic? Nope. -- Zim Zala Bim talk  14:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with that, but I don't live in England. I hope at least you enjoyed the song, literally scary good. Sswonk (talk) 14:39, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The incident happened in the UK, and the leading US rock magazine thought it significant enough to mention. As far as I can tell, it was Rolling Stone's only mention of Kate Bush until the release of The Sensual World. K8 fan (talk) 22:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * She talked about in The Guardian Article we have as an external link (near the bottom). Virgin Media mentioned it in their Kate Bush 50th Birthday tribute. Edkollin (talk) 07:55, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Frankly the case has been made for article inclusion. I will put it back but just one sentence. Edkollin (talk) 08:30, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Pointless, 'tabloidesque' tittle tattle. Her bra strap broke, big deal. Must we now include all wardrobe malfunctions, in all biographies? Ridiculous. Stephenjh (talk) 09:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, "Bush suffered an embarrassing wardrobe malfunction during her performance" actually lacks a point, and seems like a non sequitor; you might as well say "Bush wore boots at the show." Per the comments Zim and I left above, if there is any point to having mention of the incident, it must be about the reaction to it in the press. Even then, after learning about this and the amount of coverage there is on the internet, I see no value in including it here. To illustrate, George H. W. Bush famously vomitted in public during a visit to Japan while president; this incident was very widely reported and joked about on late night talk shows in the US yet is not mentioned in his Wikipedia article. Sswonk (talk) 14:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Kate Bush is the one who called it embarrassing (she used stronger language) that is why I put that word there. Most wardrobe malfunctions are not article worthy. But if a non tabloid source thinks it is important enough to put it in her bio and if Bush who rarely gives interviews brings it up it is worthy for this article. And still that would be the case if the incident received no press mention at all in 1982. Not sure about Bush's "upchucking" but I would bet in interviews he does not bring in up himself and I doubt bio articles about him would mention it. I seem to be getting criticized for putting it in at all and not putting enough information at the same time. This incident while notable enough in my view for inclusion is not notable enough in my view to have more then one sentence devoted to it. Going into details would be salacious. Edkollin (talk) 08:45, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * In my view, Kate Bush generally expresses herself with a stronger sense of irony and sarcasm than does the ex-president. "I see no value in including it here", full stop. Sswonk (talk) 14:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The two citations provided make trivial mention of the event, and erroneously so. The first does not really constitute independent coverage of the event, as it is Bush herself mis-characterizing the event as "My dress fell off". No, it didn't fall off. A strap merely came undone. The second is merely a trivial mention in a slideshow profile, also mis-characterizing the event as her "dress fell down". Again, if you watch the video, it didn't fall down. I don't consider these as fulfilling the source requirements for accurate, independent, non-trivial mention. -- Zim <b style="color:darkgreen;">Zala</b> Bim <sup style="color:black;">talk  14:35, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, both straps of her top broke. I needs to be mentioned because it was the sole mention Rolling Stone magazine made of her in a decade. It needs to be mentioned because people erroneously think that "her top fell down", and the article should make clear that, while both straps of her top broke, she managed to hold it it and finished the song without missing a note. She has performed on stage very rarely, yet was such a "pro" that she finished the song. That is a notable personality aspect for a performer. K8 fan (talk) 20:21, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Most everything you describe there as justification is your own analysis of the importance of the event. Which is the entire point here, it lacks non-trivial mention of its significance in reliable sources. -- Zim <b style="color:darkgreen;">Zala</b> Bim <sup style="color:black;">talk  03:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I am taking it out because of no consensus as per guidelines Edkollin (talk) 08:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

What about her dancing?
Is her dancing not a serious subject? At least int the popmusic scene it sa remarkable (and very good). Could someone write a section or mentioning? -DePiep (talk) 22:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * She's never danced professionally, or outside of the context of her (rare) live performances, music videos or TV performances - unlike Madonna who was in several dance troupes before her music career. That said, I believe there should be some mention of her dance history, possibly in the "Live Performances" section, with a link to a comment by her dance teacher Anthony van Laast. K8 fan (talk) 05:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with K8 fan Edkollin (talk) 10:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Breaking Glass
The Kate Bush News and Information in a 2002 archive claims that in a BBC Radio 1 interview Hazel O'Connor said that "it was disclosed that Hazel's character was called Kate after Kate Bush". This claim is repeated without citing in the Wikipedia article about the movie. In addition a poster on her fan site claimed that the promo info sheet for Toyah Wilcox's Toyah - Good Morning Universe - The Very Best Of Sleeve Notes that Bush was considered for the lead role in the seminal New Wave movie. He also wrote that "I mamanged to get an email from Hazels management who says that the character was called Kate (after Kate Bush) but Hazel was not aware Kate had been approached" Anything citeble for these claims? Edkollin (talk) 21:52, 15 November 2008 (UTC)


 * First I've ever heard of this. Kate famously refused a number of other TV and movie parts, but I had never read any Kate bio mentioning this. K8 fan (talk) 22:12, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

The Brooklyn Academy of Music made the claim that the films main character was named after Bush when they ran the film as part of its Punk'n'Pie film series. Edkollin (talk) 19:49, 22 November 2008 (UTC). I would question BAM as a source because they describe her as "New Wave". My own POV sees no comparison between Bush and the Kate character but if we get proper sourcing for this claim I do think its article worthy. Edkollin (talk) 18:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

This is an old story. Even Toyah mentions in her biography that Kate and herself were tried out for the role before Hazel got it. As for Kate named as the singer in the film this again was mentioned by Hazel during her recent Beyond Breaking Glass tour. (78.151.96.253 (talk) 21:53, 21 January 2009 (UTC))
 * Use The Toyah Wilcox autobiography as a cite for the claim that Bush was tried out. This would defiantly belong in the Movie projects section. Same goes if you can get a reliable cite that quotes Hazel as saying the singer was based on Kate Edkollin (talk) 10:14, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey I was at a Hazel gig when she mentioned it! Also sang a few lines of Man with the Childbefore she went into Will You? (212.22.3.8 (talk) 13:20, 22 January 2009 (UTC))

Sales
There's some stuff being added about sales. It's unsourced, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone does know what her estimated sales are? The addition says 20M, but I'd say this is a fairly modest sum since she must have sold at least 10M in the UK alone. I know it's her biggest market - but you're talking the entire rest of the world combined for the other half.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 22:52, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Video Project Deletions
Three video projects were deleted because they were Bush was not involved with them. 1. An unofficial A DVD entitled Kate Bush: Hounds of Love: A Classic Album Under Review MVD. 2. Babooshka on a sing star collection for Playstation3. 3. BBC1 who are making a documentary about the most admired and influential British female singers from the 1960’s onward that will profile Bush.

Number 1 and 2 in my view should be in but since they are completely unofficial I can see where people would view it as dodgy and I will not argue the point. However I do not understand why this was left in "In late 2006, a DVD documentary entitled Kate Bush Under Review was released by Sexy Intellectual, which included archival interviews with Bush, along with interviews with a selection of music historians and journalists (including Phil Sutcliffe, Nigel Williamson, and Morris Pert). The DVD also includes clips from several of Bush's music videos". It was an unofficial in the vain of Kate Bush: Hounds of Love: A Classic Album Under Review MVD that was deleted. To me it seems inconsistent to delete one and not the other.

In strongly feel that the BBC documentary should be put back in. For one the its the BBC and the information in the documentary should be reliable. Second Del Palmer has confirmed he has been interviewed for the documentary in his blog as cited. While Bush has not confirmed to be involved her close musical collaborator for over thirty years has been. I think that should be enough for inclusion. Common sense would tell us that if he is involved she is in in some way even if it was just to ok his interview. I have edited articles where the understandable desire to be cautious has led to stagnation over time. Decisions on what to edit are messy. Avoiding this unpleasantness is the wrong way to go. Edkollin (talk) 10:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Correction: She turned down the BBC's request to be involved in the project. This does not change my opinion that this should have been included because the BBC is a reliable source. The "Hounds of Love" album under review project has gotten good reviews and is reliably sourced. Edkollin (talk) 14:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Lyra
Was "Lyra" ever released as a single? It didn't chart, so I'd think it wasn't. It's listed as one in her discography, but the song's page doesn't mention it.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 18:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't have a whole lot of information when creating that article, and would welcome additions to it. I did check allmusic, and it wasn't listed in her discography there. TJRC (talk) 20:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Having had a look, it seems not. I didn't realise that Gaffaweb was so out of date and the Kate Bush site just says it's available on the album, so I'll remove it from the discography.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 20:51, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Gaffaweb is out of date in many areas, especially the discography. But the interviews and reviews section "Reaching Out" is actually fairly up to date and complete. The problem is that the different sections where built by different people and all of them other than myself have lost interest in maintaining those sections. An up-to-date and complete discography section would be wonderful. If you have one that we could use to replace the current one, it would be most welcome. I ask that it not require a database, and exists as plain HTML. The hassle of maintaining a database for an artist who releases new recordings on a geological schedule is not worth the bother. K8 fan (talk) 03:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think it should be removed from the discography. It's a released song written and performed by Kate Bush.  The fact that it was released on media with other works doesn't change that.  Although I think you're right, maybe it shouldn't be in the "Singles" table. Let's continue this discussion at Talk:Kate Bush discography. TJRC (talk) 21:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Lyra was not released on CD as a single, but it was chart eligible (and in fact reached No.187 in the UK!) on downloads, once the Golden Compass soundtrack was made available to download. You could leave it out of the discography as it wasn't an official single and didn't make the Top 75 (which is the official UK singles chart); although no doubt it would be included in the discography had it sold enough downloads to make the Top 75. Reference to This Woman's Work's re-entry on the chart in 2005/2007, on download sales alone, is made in the discography, even through it wasn't officially re-released. (rpjonesuk) 14:34, 18 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpjonesuk (talk • contribs)

Gaffa.org down
Gaffa.org is down at the moment, presumably moving to a new host. So I added a link to the backup copy, gaffaweb.org. I'll remove the link as soon as the main site returns. K8 fan (talk) 03:00, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Main site has returned. Backup link removed. K8 fan (talk) 06:23, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Main site down again, link changed to backup site gaffaweb.org. Not sure what the issues are, but the backup site contains the same data from the last update. This can be verified by e-mailing me at the maintainer address listed in the FAQ available on the copy archived at archive.org.K8 fan (talk) 23:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Gaffa.org is down yet again. I'm the owner of gaffaweb.org, and the last maintainer of gaffa.org and both sites have exactly the same information, loaded from the backup on my hard drive. Until the owner of gaffa.org can demonstrate that he is willing to keep it on-line for more than two weeks at a time we should probably link to gaffaweb.org. K8 fan (talk) 03:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Forum Discussion "Wikipedia and Kate Bush"
Edkollin (talk) 20:11, 23 January 2010 (UTC)