Talk:Kathleen Wynne

"Partner" vs. "Spouse"
The fact Ms. Wynne has stated that Ms. Rounthwaite should be referred to as her "partner" does not change the fact that they are legally married and, thus, Ms. Rounthwaite is legally her "spouse". So, she needs to be listed as a "spouse" rather than "domestic partner" because that is what she actually is, whatever she might be otherwise. Besides which, I should think Ms. Wynne's intent in specifying "partner" was to avoid use of the term "wife" in the press, not to avoid the gender-neutral term "spouse" (which is almost never used by the press in the way that the terms "husband", "wife", and "partner" are used).

73.162.218.153 (talk) 00:19, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Cabinet Shuffle 2011
I added Minister Wynne's new position in the cabinet – could someone more wikisavvy then I fix the info boxes. 24.246.56.126 (talk) 23:55, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Update from 2011 Election Results
Added Election Results to WikiTable. Updated Change in Relative Party Position since John Torry did not run in this riding for a second try at it. Richard416282 (talk) 21:53, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Ideology?
Seems a remarkably barren article, in some respects, given that she's the Premier-designate in Canada's largest province. Is she on the left of the party? The right? Where might she take the province? What has she said? Holmwood (talk) 05:37, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Brief notes and quotes by or about Kathleen Wynne
This section is in response to the post wondering what Kathleen Wynne's views are:

On the political spectrum



 * DonaldRichardSands (talk) 13:09, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

These are cherry-picked quotes.Wynne is viewed as left-of-centre by many, but not quite as far left as the NDP (social democrats). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.119.6 (talk) 18:00, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

On Northern Ontario



 * DonaldRichardSands (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

As Minister of Education







 * DonaldRichardSands (talk) 17:14, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

An interesting detail...
 * In 2006 Sandra Pupatello was Ontario's Minister of Education and Kathleen Wynne was Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister. This seems to indicate that Pupatello was Wynne's boss back then. See the link following this.




 * DonaldRichardSands (talk) 17:25, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Bisexual ?
Often she is said to be a lesbian. Having been married with two children, would she not be bi-sexual ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.5.39.86 (talk) 22:38, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Since she identifies herself as a lesbian, I think this fact should be accepted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.33.27 (talk) 03:24, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Where born?
Odd that place of birth is missing. Where she "grew up" is not the same as where she was born. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.122.14 (talk) 13:50, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Head of government?
"... first openly gay head of government in the Commonwealth of Nations." What is the scope of the term "head of government" for purposes of this declaration? A mayor is the head of government for a city or town. Have there been no gay or lesbian mayors in the Commonwealth? Well, maybe not, but I saw an even stronger claim that she's the first one in the Commonwealth or in the English-speaking world, and that sure isn't true (the U.S. has had quite a few lesbian/gay mayors, such as the current mayor of Houston) unless the scope is explicitly declared to be "nations and first-level subdivisions of nations". —Largo Plazo (talk) 14:36, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If that's the case, Glenn Murray has her beat by a good 15 years — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.112.224.105 (talk) 05:12, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I guess as a term of art it is defined as indicated at Head of government. —Largo Plazo (talk) 02:28, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Should be noted that she's the first openly gay person. Richard Hatfield, for instance, was never open about his sexually but people close to him knew he was gay. Newfoundlander&#38;Labradorian (talk) 20:49, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you saying that the qualifier "open" needs to be there? I agree. 117Avenue (talk) 04:19, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand why the sentence needed changing, nothing happened at the election to change things. 117Avenue (talk) 02:48, 16 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The phrase "first openly gay head of government in the Commonwealth" is attested by the Toronto Star. In some outlets, it was wrongly reported that she had "become" as much after this year's election. (Even Pink News, which had reported her original appointment a year prior, made that mistake oddly enough). I took out the reference to the claim when a user raised the case of Lynne Brown in the Western Cape. But in fact South Africa left the Commonwealth at the same time it abolished the Monarchy of South Africa after the South African republic referendum, 1960. Carolynparrishfan (talk) 06:04, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The Monarchy of South Africa article you just linked says that South Africa rejoined the Commonwealth in 1994, in which case Brown would be first. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 06:27, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

"Head of Government" in this context may include US state governors and Jim McGreevey came out while he was Governor of New Jersey in 2004. It would be more accurate to say Kathleen Wynne is the "first openly lesbian head of government". (JaxPrat) 05:50, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

I think "Head of Government" is still confusing and should be changed. I think most people would naturally interpret it as head of local, provincial, or federal government, even if in the very technical sense it only refers to the latter two levels of government. Most people would not even realize they are mistaken or confused and thus seek further clarification. The term should be changed to "head of provincial or federal government" in the entry. 2607:FEA8:871F:FB75:98D6:7308:C7E5:D071 (talk) 03:53, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Partial sale of Hydro One, alcohol reform, and sex ed
I find it extremely surprising that there is zero mention of the partial sale of Hydro One, the reforms of the sale of alcohol in Ontario grocery stores, or the update of sex education in Ontario public schools, despite those three being major parts of her governance in 2015. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 02:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Surprisingly, this page really doesn't seem to get updated that often - it's not that the info is being kept out of the article or anything, just that no one's bothered to add it. Fyddlestix (talk) 02:26, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have mentioned them in the Toronto Star, W. Edmund Clark, Hydro One, and Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario articles; before then, there was zero mention. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 02:39, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I also have gone ahead to mention them in this article as well. It is very unfortunate that Wikipedia's editorship is declining very rapidly to the point that I had to be the first to mention them, despite them having major national attention for many months, as well as being on the front page for many consecutive weeks on the Toronto Star (and being the focus of many editorial cartoons by said newspaper's Theo Moudakis, especially with regards to the sale of alcohol) and many social media discussions, complete with well-used hashtags; most edits since the budget are primarily vandalism and virtually nothing about the budget itself before my edits; apparently, interest on social media don't necessarily translate into Wikipedia edits. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 02:45, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It is ironic that the first person who added all of this on this article had to be a teetotal NDPer critical of Kathleen Wynne though reasonable (in other words, myself). Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 13:27, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The sex ed section is much more detailed now (though elaborated not by me). However, the parts about Hydro One and alcohol reforms need much expansion.  Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 03:19, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Abuse Claim
I removed the abuse claim as there were no specifics to back it up. You can't just assume that any mundane criticism of fiscal policy is automatically a sexist of homophobic comment. MohammedMohammedمحمد 07:29, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The article cited doesn't give any specific examples, but a more detailed one published by the same company the day before does. See here. This harassment is, in fact, real and is often motivated by misogyny or homophobia. (Or, as I fund on a very cursory search through her twitter mentions, by anger at her acceptance of Muslim Canadians.) Would you agree that it would be fair to put the section back in with this other article sourced for evidence? --Mooeena (talk) 14:44, 15 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Twitter is not a reliable source. If you want to include an abuse claim (which is not the same thing as harassment​) you need to list a specific incident. Previously, there was a claim that an Alberta MLA's criticism of Ontario finances is somehow homophobic or mysogenoys. This could be seen as libel towards that MLA. Abuse is a legal term. As far as the sources go, no one has ever been convicted, let alone accused, of abusing Wynne. If you mean harrassment, you need to provide a clear example. Who are you accusing of harrassing Wynne? MohammedMohammedمحمد 18:07, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Twitter isn't the source though, numerous CBC and other news articles are, and they support the content just fine. I don't see a problem, but I did just add some extra sources and context to the Wildrose incident that makes it clear this was more than a case of someone being impolite. "Abuse," by the way, is used in several of the sources, and doesn't always imply criminality. Fyddlestix (talk) 19:22, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Note that has been checkuser blocked as a sock of, and the edit in question was made in violation of the original block of Ontario Teacher BFA BEd. Meters (talk) 19:24, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2017
I think the term "Head of Government" in the introduction is confusing and should be changed. I think most people would naturally interpret it as head of local, provincial, or federal government, though in the technical sense it only refers to the latter two levels of government. Most people would not even realize they are mistaken or confused and thus seek clarification for the terminology. The term should be changed to "head of provincial or federal government" in the introduction. 2607:FEA8:871F:FB75:98D6:7308:C7E5:D071 (talk) 03:58, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ Simplexity22 (talk) 01:06, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2017
Category:LGBT Christians should be replaced with Category:LGBT Protestants. Thanks, 142.160.131.202 (talk) 03:16, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Categories are supposed to be the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having. There is only one source that possibly mentions a denomination, a "Community Life" pdf from a church that is currently unavailable for verification. There is no indication that Wynne is "commonly and consistently" called any denomination.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 04:51, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Given her formal membership in the United Church, consistency isn't an issue. As to commonality, why do you believe her to be more commonly considered Christian than Protestant?


 * With respect to the dead link, that doesn't mean it isn't verifiable. WP:DEADREF indicates that a physical copy could be available. But nonetheless, here is a live link that verifies it:




 * 142.160.131.202 (talk) 06:58, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
 * That citation should certainly be substituted for the deadlink. It doesn't change anything about the categorization.  Please read the links I provided earlier.  Categories assigned to living persons are those characteristics that are frequently used to define the person in reliable sources.  Ms. Wynne is identified as "First woman Premier" or similar very frequently and "first out Premier" less frequently but only in that one article is their faith used as a distinct characteristic. Thank you. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 15:53, 27 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I did read the provided links. But you didn't answer the question: "why do you believe her to be more commonly considered Christian than Protestant?" And with respect to the dead link, why would you not replace it, then? You can see that the citation is already formatted, even. 142.160.131.202 (talk) 03:29, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The question you posed is irrelevant and based on an assumption that is not proven. Namely, that I consider her Christian or Protestant. The actual relevant issue is: Do reliable sources ever use phrases such as: "Kathleen Wynne, the 25th Christian Premier..." or anything else like that.  That's what WP:CATDEF is about.  As to why I didn't replace it? Well, frankly, I didn't think it was important enough to prioritize over the rest of the things I needed to do today. In other words, there's no deadline. Thanks. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 03:42, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * You specifically raised the issue of the replacement of the reference, so this seems to be a case of sofixit. Nevertheless, I have filed another semi-protected edit request.


 * Given that, as you pointed out, there is no deadline, the question is whether having Category:LGBT Protestants is an improvement upon Category:LGBT Christians as the latter is already in the article. So, again, I ask why "Christian" is more suitable than "Protestant"? 142.160.131.202 (talk) 04:20, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * ? 142.160.89.97 (talk) 17:54, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) 01:14, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

WP:BLP Issue
Hello,

I feel like the entire article is way too messy and should be re-written (see template above). What I would suggest is: 1) Sections need to be moreso in order 2) The difference between Sections and Subsections way too unclear 3) Too choppy, should use more prose if anything.

I honestly don't know where to begin with the article. Hopefully it gets cleaned up soon.

Tibbydibby (talk) 03:47, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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"Allegations of homophobia and sexism"
This section has an unfortunate title, since the most natural interpretation of the title (before you start reading the section) would be that it deals with allegations against Kathleen Wynne (which it doesn't)... AnonMoos (talk) 22:52, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131221000409/http://www.fairlawnavenueunited.ca/Community_Life/Fall_2007.pdf to http://www.fairlawnavenueunited.ca/Community_Life/Fall_2007.pdf

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Hydro One
The source says "The government believes it will get $9-billion total for 60 per cent of the shares. Of this, $5-billion will be used to pay down Hydro One’s debt, while the other $4-billion will go towards transit and transportation" https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/hydro-one-ontarios-privatization-plan-explained/article24743446/ Right now, the WP article says "Wynne is using approximately four billion dollars of the nine billion dollars which the shares were sold for to pay off government debt before the next election,[61] and the other 5 billion dollars to the Trillium Trust to improve transit lines and to build infrastructure." As you can see, the WP article has the numbers backwards, and the wording of exactly what the $4 billion and $5 billion go towards is inaccurate.2607:F2C0:9364:5000:29B7:94C:AB8E:2D1 (talk) 03:35, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

"Negativity on Social Media" Section
Why the hell is there a section essentially devoted to saying "poor Kathleen Wynne is being bullied by mean constituents on social media". Like there is nothing of substance in that section except an effort to delegitimize her critics. 108.170.143.83 (talk) 14:56, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Please edit for clarity
I can't make heads or tails of this: In March 2018, the Liberals tabled a pre-election budget in the provincial legislature which promised billions of dollars in new spending for free childcare and expanded denticare that, replaced the government's previous balanced budget with a $6.7 billion deficit which was not projected to be eliminated until 2024-2025 and which, according to former Progressive Conservative strategist Jamie Watt, "veer[ed] sharply left", turning the NDP as " little more than an afterthought", and was decried by PC leader Doug Ford as a "spending spree".

What is "turning the NDP as 'little more than an afterthought'" supposed to mean, in context? It made sense in the context of the original article, but not here. Also, this should probably be multiple sentences, and the grammar seems off as well. I think the intended meaning is something more like:

In March 2018, the Liberals tabled a pre-election budget in the provincial legislature, replacing the government's previous balanced budget, which would incur a $6.7 billion deficit. This budget includes billions of dollars in new spending for free childcare and expanded denticare, and it was projected that the resulting deficit would not be eliminated until 2024-2025. According to former Progressive Conservative strategist Jamie Watt, spending priorities in this budget "veer[ed] sharply left". PC leader Doug Ford decried the budget as a "spending spree".

74.12.95.1 (talk) 01:46, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what it means either; I don't know whether Canada uses the US or the UK definition of "table" in parliamentary procedure, and don't know what "denticare" means. Your wording is definitely better. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 23:26, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: The IP user is correct in that there is no need for the confusingly-written reaction quote from an opinion editorial when the opposition reaction is already included. Also made some minor grammatical and readability fixes. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:07, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2018
She is not the current premier, Doug Ford is. change this 142.116.194.64 (talk) 02:48, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The article currently says she "served as the 25th Premier of Ontario and Leader of the Ontario Liberal Party from 2013 to 2018." Is there somewhere in the article that says she is the current premier? Please let us know where that is. I'm not seeing it. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 02:53, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: per comment above. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 15:21, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2018
In the "see also" section the link to List of the first LGBT holders of political offices should be changed to List of the first LGBT holders of political offices in Canada, as that is the article Wynne is actually listed in. 64.229.45.173 (talk) 16:28, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Gulumeemee (talk) 07:08, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2021
References to governments as administrations (see example under gas plant scandal. Use of administration while referencing mcguinty government. No such thing as administrations in canada. They are referred to as governments.). Therefore, change administration to government. 142.116.121.183 (talk) 02:32, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌ "Administration" is used in Canada. "Government" can be ambiguous, meaning both the unchanging institution of The Government (the ministries, the hospitals, the schools, the civil service, etc.) and the evolving partisan "government of the day" (the "government of Kathleen Wynne" giving way to the "government of Doug Ford") — and "administration" most certainly can be used as a synonym for "government" in the latter context. Bearcat (talk) 13:47, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2021 (2)
In the 2018 Election section there is a typo in the first line, 'broadcasingt' instead of 'broadcasting'. See below:

Wynne's Liberals headed into the 2018 provincial election campaign trailing far behind the PCs, led by former Toronto City Councillor Doug Ford. In early April, the CBC (Canadian Broadcasingt Corporation)

should become:

Wynne's Liberals headed into the 2018 provincial election campaign trailing far behind the PCs, led by former Toronto City Councillor Doug Ford. In early April, the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) Tedbranscombe (talk) 13:35, 13 April 2021 (UTC)


 * ✅ Thanks for the catch. In fact, the words weren't even strictly necessary at all, since the link should really have been going specifically to CBC News instead of to the entire Canadian Broadcasting Corporation — so instead of fixing the spelling, I've removed the misspelled words entirely and repointed the link to the more appropriate destination. Bearcat (talk) 13:40, 13 April 2021 (UTC)