Talk:Katy Perry/Archive 7

(A)
Hey, was wondering if it'd be okay to say that (A) was influenced by a more gothic rock / alt rock sound (The Box and Fingerprints come to mind) and is much more stylistically different from her main pop sound nowadays (although she does return to this a bit with 2010's Circle The Drain.) Especially in the "1999-2006" section. This could also be added not only to this article but also One Of The Boys. For a good reference for this type of "unreleased album" stuff, look at Blackout (Britney Spears Album) and how they reference The Original Doll.

The only thing keeping me from adding it in is not that many good sources, but I still feel like it's worth adding in as it's honestly super interesting. (There's an article about it with great detail on a Katy Perry fan wiki here), but since that's a fan wiki it of course doesn't hold up to Wikipedia standards. Thanks! shanghai. talk to me 12:52, 23 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely sure about that when 1) that's not a formal album title 2) it was never officially released. It of course is easier to focus on actually released material due to the higher quantity of usable references. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:39, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

there's a lot of good sources on (a). for instance, the part of me documentary does mention a. her time with ballard, b. writing 100~ songs for said album, and c. namedropping two songs directly from the album, diamond and the box. It's definitely notable enough to be included if its included in Perry's own documentary shanghai. talk to me 13:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Again, her shelved record never officially had that name (or any other as far as I know). The way you use this dubbing gives a false impression that (A) was in fact the title she planned to give it. Anyway, not much appears to be known about its content aside from how Ballard was involved, KP worked on that in between the Katy Hudson and One of the Boys (OOTB) albums, the plan was to distribute sometime in 2004/2005 (I'm not sure of an exact release date), and how at least "Thinking of You" was meant for that before getting added to the OOTB tracklist while "Simple" got added to the soundtrack of The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants (the latter of which is already mentioned). There could be others that I missed. With that in mind, all I could plausibly foresee being added without bloating the page is how certain tracks meant for her 2002–2006 work got included elsewhere (with "Long Shot" and "I Do Not Hook Up" being given to Kelly Clarkson for All I Ever Wanted and Clarkson is listed as an artist she co-wrote something for). SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:33, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Update, through some sleuthing on Twitter, I found that Fingerprints was actually going to be the official planned title for the 2007 album that was eventually reworked into One of the Boys. I found this video of Perry in November 2006 where she said it was Fingerprints. I hope this is a clear enough source? I'll try adding this info in after I'm done with class. shanghai. talk to me 09:02, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That's probably best suited for the OOTB article. SNUGGUMS (talk / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 13:29, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Scratch that; I initially misread your comment and thought it was saying something about how it became a song title for that album. Good find indeed! <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 15:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * <3 shanghai. talk to me 15:36, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Sure thing :) <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 17:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Personal life ?
Is an RFC the reason why there isn't a "Personal life" section for Perry yet? I'm confused, every time I read this article I always never see a personal life section. I think it's definitely important to have details of her fundamentalist upbringings, which influenced her first debut album, and also her exes as they've been the topic of some of her songs. Would appreciate comments on this whenever anyone's available. Thank you. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" (talk to me!~) 11:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * There was one until this article got reorganized in 2014. You'll find upbringing in the "Early life and family" subsection of "Life and career" and past relationships are interspersed throughout other subsections. The details got shifted around because there are exes who in some way worked with her professionally (which helps keep such details closer together), plus a separate "Personal life" section can easily become a magnet for fancruft, gossip, and speculation. Reinstating that here would basically be asking for trouble and getting bloated with these things or other excessive details is not at all a risk worth taking. I'm fully certain having "Personal life" would do more bad than good in this case. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 13:39, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I think the lack of a personal life is just.. in general, quite confusing. As an avid Wikipedia reader, I shouldn't have to sift through details about her career, which I am not looking for, to see her current relationship with Orlando and first child. It just makes the article hard to search for what you're looking for. I think simply, a "personal life" section saying her previous relationships and her new status as a mother is important. In all my time in Wikipedia reading articles, I've never seen details about children and what chart positions an album had in the same section, as a reader it is extremely confusing and quite aggravating. I agree that fancruft and gossip *can* be a genuine problem, but adding a personal life section would probably have more positive when it comes to again details about her relationship and child, rather than a lack of a personal life section at all. Is there any way we can get a consensus for this? "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" (talk to me!~) 12:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, the setup of incorporating relationships, children, and other details within an overarching "Life and career" section was already used for articles like Britney Spears, Madonna, and Michael Jackson before it got implemented here, and they still have such styles to this day. In fact, those were the basis I used when proposing the change; I was extensively working with a someone else to revamp this page at the time and that user agreed it was a good idea. Before your post, the only qualm with the restructuring that I can recall was one other editor not liking how it once simply listed all events in chronological order as that came off like a diary, suggesting instead to change the paragraphs so more closely connected matters would be kept together within the subsections (and the page subsequently was revised accordingly). There also is "first marriage" in the 2010-2012 section's title as well as "motherhood" within the 2019–2021 one, which should help make such locations easier. This also helps avoid unnecessary repetition of professional work with her exes. All in all, I still am very much against restoring a separate "Personal life" section when the negatives of having one outweigh any potential positives. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 13:32, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Sexuality is another important detail that could be very well explained in a personal life: Perry explains herself as not heterosexual and has had sex with women. (Her words, not mine.) Yet nothing about this is said in the article.. which is why again I believe a personal life is important. Again *as a reader* in my personal opinion it is really confusing and again in my opinion, even if you do make it easier to find, relationships and children shouldn't be intertwined with album chart positions or Hot 100 #1s. Thank you.  "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" (talk to me!~) 14:32, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * That link admittedly was something I hadn't seen before. This aspect of her is probably best suited for the LGBT paragraph of "Politics" or 2007–2009 where "I Kissed a Girl" and its lyrics are discussed (I see she mentioned the track when discussing sexuality). I've placed it within the former. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 15:34, 17 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Agree that Personal Life should be added. It is of general interest of such public figure. Zeddedm (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I still oppose restoring one for the reasons mentioned above. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 04:19, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi Protected Edit Request about Las Vegas Residency
Could you add the name of the nightclub "Zouk" to this sentence: Perry will begin to host a residency named "Play" at Resorts World Las Vegas on December 29, 2021.[261] New version: Perry will begin to host a residency named "Play" at Zouk Nightclub located at Resorts World Las Vegas on December 29, 2021.[261] Thanks.Zeddedm (talk) 01:29, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Where did this detail come from? I can't seem to find it anywhere in searches for her upcoming residency. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 04:27, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Check this and .Zeddedm (talk) 00:42, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Unless I'm missing something, these only indicate Tiesto and Zedd will be part of the Zouk Nightclub part of Resorts World in Vegas; niether state or even suggest Katy will have shows in it. Both links are also from before she formally announced anything and just were speculating about her future anyway. If KP is in fact part of that and not just the general Resorts World, then somebody can implement this once references specifically mentioning it are found. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 01:03, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * There are lot's of news about this, just do a Google search. Here are more and . Her first show will be on Dec 29, 2021 according to . Are you saying that it is not indicated that the show would be at Zouk, and rather at some other venue? Hmm maybe I was wrong about that. Just checked the Zouk website and cannot see Katy Perry in upcoming events . So ignore my request.Zeddedm (talk) 03:48, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I just meant there's no sign of her performing at Zouk. Another venue currently sounds more likely. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 04:32, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Second line in lead
I don't see the role of "widespread media coverage" in Perry's lead? Why is user:RogueShanghai trying to replicate Swift's article in Perry's word by word? That is worrying. Perry is an unique artist and deserves an independently written, good article; not a cheap photocopy. All A-list artists receive "widespread media coverage", but that's not the point. I don't know why Swift was brought up here, but since she has been now, I'll address it. Swift's career has a very intricate relationship with media, which has been widely documented by ALL publications under the topics media scrutiny and toxic tabloids. Her personal life dissected and studied like no other popstar. All this has nothing to do with Perry. If one cannot come up with a good sentence by themselves. then let other editors do the job. Stop edit warring over it. "Apprentice editors" must try to learn one or two from this. Ronherry (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Why accuse me of personal attacks because I pointed out that Swift is one of your most edited articles, but then make a blatant personal attack that specifically targets my Apprentice Editor badge and accuse me of "not being able to come up with a good sentence by myself?" You seem to be addressing Taylor's past feuds with the media, but that has nothing to do with the sentence that "widespread media coverage" is actually in, which talks about her personal songwriting.
 * Adding "widespread media coverage" does not make any article a cheap photocopy, and why are you even accusing me of trying to replicate Swift's article word by word? Besides the lead sentence, I almost see no other similarities between Perry's lead and Swift's lead. You have avoided actually disputing that Perry should not have "widespread media coverage" in her article. The only reasons you have given so far are "they are different artists" and "I don't see the role". This behavior is uncollaborative. shanghai. talk to me 18:10, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Finding a new image for the infobox
Apparently the 2019 Macy's Meet and Greet image was deleted due to license laundering, what a shame. I've been scouring around a couple of sites, trying to find a better non-copyrighted image for the infobox, but all of the options I have found are iffy at best.


 * Never Worn White music video reupload from the Vimeo of the director. I thought about this but then went against it because Capitol probably owns the copyright to this music video, not the director.
 * Met Gala 2019 from Cosmopolitan UK, which was released under a CC license. However, the photo of Perry that I was able to get was overly yellow, kind of unflattering and in a bad angle. Could still be usable, though.
 * Met Gala 2018 which was actually already uploaded to Commons here. It is kind of blurry though.
 * Grammys 2017 which also was uploaded to commons here but there's two fingers in her face and the other frames I could get from the same video are far away. Oof.

Help would be appreciated, I'm checking multiple sites to see if any of them released any recent Katy content under a CC license. There was actually a round of video interviews with Perry from several media outlets to promote Play but none of them were released under CC. *cries in pain* shanghai. talk to me 03:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I feel the same way about that Macy's Meet and Greet pic. It was quite nice! Music video screenshots are definitely copyrighted and therefore out-of-the-question here, especially when many free pictures exist. I'd say File:Katy Perry 2019 by Glenn Francis.jpg (what's currently used) or one of its alternate crops would be our best bet unless somebody can get a better shot from the 2019 Met Gala. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 03:49, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * This may not be the most ~encyclopedic~ way to say it but I don't like that photo (no shade to the photographer) because she's dressed up in-character as the fembot from the 365 music video. Note the hair, the headband, the red lip, the plastic on her clothes. Therefore imo it kind of doesn't really work as an infobox image because she's not really "Katy Perry", she's cosplaying as someone else. To put it in perspective, an image of Kathy Beth Terry (her "nerd" alter ego) wouldn't be used as an infobox image for the lead for the same reasons.
 * Anyways, I'm still trying to find more images that could be used. She has a bunch of interviews, press, and media coming out to promote Play and When I'm Gone, let's hope at least one of those is released under CC? Hahaha shanghai. talk to me 05:08, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Regarding cosplay, I see what you mean, and the Met Gala crop you inserted here isn't so bad. We can always revisit the matter when more non-copyrighted pics become available. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 05:28, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Haha yeah I was just about to comment that here, that I changed it. I ran the photo of Perry that I got through some brightness and color correcting in Photoshop and it's definitely now more usable for the lead image but I do still want to keep looking for better photos. However hopefully this Met Gala photo will be usable for a couple of weeks until more non copyrighted pics become available.
 * I am going to keep looking for better images however, already checking all the award show / red carpets Perry went to in 2019 and see if any of them are free use :b shanghai. talk to me 05:37, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * , there's a bunch of Katycats posting photos that they took of Perry during Play on Twitter right now. Doja Cat's lead image in her article is from a photo that a Twitter fan took at a concert, could this process to ask these fans to let Wikipedia use them be applicable to Perry as well? Pinging for good measure as well since he has experience with using these Twitter fan photos in Wikipedia. How would the process exactly work if I were to message a Katycat and ask for permission to use the photos that they took? Thanks!  shanghai. talk to me 16:15, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:Image use policy, we'd have to ensure any fans who post such photos indicate they're free for reuse on other sites, and asking them directly might require you to show them the page I linked. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 16:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I personally consulted the Twitter user for the Doja image and asked them to submit to Commons themselves via email. I suggest you do the same. Thanks. — cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝)  17:43, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * How would the process of submitting to Commons work? Is there a page that details this? I searched around on Commons and couldn't find anything, thanks! shanghai. talk to me 19:37, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Just copy and paste this template into DMs with the original photographer and ask them to attach their photo and send it to the given email address :) — cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝)  19:45, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

See this current discussion for why the 2019 365 video image isn't fit for the lead. She is in character as the fembot from the 365 music video, note the hair, makeup, the plastic on her clothes. The Met Gala 2019 outfit by comparison recieved hundreds and thousands of views on YouTube. [1 ] [2 ] The image of her on the Met Gala Red Carpet proves to be much more notable and significant than the 365 2019 cosplay on the red carpet. shanghai. talk to me 19:55, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 January 2022
Katy Perry is not a songwriter so redact that. The industry writes all her lyrics and beats. 87.210.92.95 (talk) 13:25, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Additionally, I would like to meet this "the industry," as I have a selection of beets for sale. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:56, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * She actually IS a songwriter who not only has written/co-written her own songs but also tracks recorded by others (e.g. Kelly Clarkson, Ariana Grande, Britney Spears). <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 15:13, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Perry has many credits across her music which clearly establishes her as a songwriter as she co-wrote many if not all her songs LaVozSA (talk) 22:54, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Katy Perry's Met Gala photo is a work of art not a suitable photo for her primary image
please establish consensus if you want Katy Perry's Met Gala photo to be her primary image. I think the previous image should remain her primary photo until a suitable alternative is available, as the Met Gala image is a work of art designed for the specific occation and it's not an actual or normal photo of Katry Perry as decribed in the article.Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 20:45, 30 December 2021 (UTC)


 * First of all:
 * Making it personal by calling me "stubborn" is a WP:PA
 * Wikipedia does not base its content based on what people are "criticizing" on social media, and where is this criticism that you speak of? I don't see any proof of it.
 * Be wary of "Don't revert again or else"-type statements as they could be seen as WP:INTIM by other editors. shanghai. talk to me 20:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry for calling you stubborn... It's mainly because you insisted on undoing something that has been undone. Naturally if your changes are reverted, you should allow what has been there before your changes to prevail prior to establishing a consensus. I just referenced certain criticisms I saw, for example this I saw on Twitter but that's not actually the main reason. The photo is just not suitable as her primary display photo. The photo is very popular, yes, but it's not an actual portrayal of Katy Perry as described in the article. MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE. It's "Katy Perry in a costume" - like a lot of people who attend the Met Gala. It could be included somewhere else in the article, such as within the "Fashion" sub-header but not as her primary photo. Better to leave the undisputed image that has been there for a while now until a recent, more suitable alternative is found. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 21:38, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Could you not argue that for the iHeart Awards picture she is dressed up as a character from her 365 music video so it technically doesn’t represent Perry either LaVozSA (talk) 22:55, 2 January 2022 (UTC)


 * In one photo Perry wore outfit to resemble "her own" alter ego (a character based on Katy Perry from her own music video), and another photo she dressed up in a well decorated costume to appear as a chandelier, as one of two of her costumes for the evening of the Met Gala (the other she dressed up as a burger). Then which photo best represents Katy Perry, as I think, at least for now, is the first one I mentioned. It might not be that appropriate but it's better than the Met Gala photo she dressed up as a Chandelier. She was wearing a costume to appear as something else (a chandelier, just like her second costume of the burger). In the iHeart Awards she was just wearing an outfit to look like her alter ego. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 00:51, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

impact of Katy Perry
Hi, I would like for you to create an "impact" section which talks about how Mrs. Perry is an iconic, influential figure.

Here are some sources that you can look at:     ADTN1210 (talk) 5:31 PM February 25, 2021 CST

Spamming edits
is really engaging in an unusual behavior of edit warring despite knowing the ongoing issue about the infobox image. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 00:40, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE DO SOMETHING! I don't want to allow them prevail over WP policies. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 01:13, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

An actual solution
I've been working on an actual solution for the lead image problem for the past couple of days. I privately messaged a Katycat on Twitter who actually went to her newest concert reisdency and was able to get lots of photos and videos of Katy who has agreed to give a new lead image for her article. Currently out of all the pics, this is the best suitable candidate for the lead image. It's a well lit, high quality, colorful photo of Katy honestly looking stunning. The only hurdle right now is the Commons email process which I'm sure will happen in time once the person finds the time to fill out the email form. But this seems to be the best way forward instead of edit warring over two mediocre images. shanghai. talk to me 01:22, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * If things get sorted out/approved through Commons, then I have no objections to using this. Glad somebody had a residency pic to offer! <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 01:25, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I told them it's just a simple form, they replied that they'll do it tomorrow :) I'm sure getting home from Vegas must be exhausting lmao shanghai. talk to me 01:29, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

That’s the best solution that you to the 2 of you guys! LaVozSA (talk) 11:31, 4 January 2022 (UTC)


 * With some editing, I think this one you've got is better than the two available alternatives, especially as it faithully portrays the real Katy Perry. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 01:43, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Because I had to make the Katycat on Twitter use the Interactive Release Generator, I pre-emptively already uploaded the actual file itself to commons under a "insufficient copyright information" tag. I did this so that the person themself doesn't have to actually upload the photo, and I could just put it in the "others have already uploaded the file to Wikimedia Commons" box. I'm hoping this is okay and will work until a VRT member gets around to confirming it? Thanks! shanghai. talk to me 02:30, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * We might have been better off letting that user upload it and I admittedly am worried about not seeing anything so far that grants permission for reuse, but at least you thankfully provided a URL to show where that came from. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 03:39, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Update: The VRT permission was approved and I finally changed the lead image :) It works great, may need some lighting adjustments but otherwise the pic looks stunning! shanghai. talk to me 08:16, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

you really did a good job on this. Kudos to you and as well :). Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 12:28, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That's quite a relief! <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 13:54, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Revisiting (A) in the lead
, there's stuff in the first paragraph of the lead that I feel can be improved better, especially regarding her two unreleased albums. I don't really know what would be the best way to solve it, so your input would be appreciated. Responding to your points in the order they were brought up: Glad you brought these up as the 2002–2006 period for her career is murky territory compared to everything that happened after November 2007 (when "Ur So Gay" and its namesake EP were distributed). <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 22:24, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) We don't really know whether (A) or Fingerprints are either seperate albums, different versions of the same album with different songs, or if there was never a final version of the album at all. There's not enough reliable coverage, all we know is that Fingerprints was an album that eventually morphed onto One Of The Boys. Because of this unreliability, it kind of creates a problem in the lead. I don't know the best solution to this (maybe make it vague, like "she worked on music/material with producer xyz before ootb" or just merge (A) and Fingerprints together and treat them as the same album anyways?) For all we know, the timeline of when Thinking of You was written meant that it very well could've appeared on the tracklist of both albums.
 * 2) Next issue is a bit more simple- why are the unreleased albums mentioned before saying she was dropped by Columbia? They're both interconnected, as Fingerprints, the unreleased album, was always meant to be her Columbia debut. This is something that I very much think could be rephrased easily, I just don't really know how to connect the sentences together with a good flow. :b
 * 3) Also, afaik, Java Records was a sublabel of Island Def Jam, so I honestly don't know why it's said as Island Def Jam, doesn't make sense because Red Hill was also a sublabel but yet it's credited as Red Hill. This is also another interconnected thing that could be mentioned, because Java is owned by Glen Ballard who is mentioned in the earlier sentence.  shanghai. talk to me 20:02, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) While I still haven't come across any proof that "(A)" was ever a formal title or even a tentative one as your use of it appears to suggest, I see no issues with adjusting the text so we have something along the lines of "She worked on music with X, Y, and Z" in between the releases of her Katy Hudson and OOTB albums.
 * 2) Quite honestly, I have no idea what to say on that placement and cannot yet think of a good way to reorganize (shrugs shoulders). Maybe someone else could rework it.
 * 3) Beats me, so I'll just boldly go ahead and use Java for consistency.


 * I agree that it's murky territory, given that it's content that is very interesting to dedicated fans of Katy like me but is hard to reliably source, given that it's the period where there was no media attention on her at all. A shame, some of her songs from her (A) period are some of the best I've heard, next to Witness.
 * However, I think that instead of trying to remove stuff, there should be enough information about the Fingerprints period so that it satisfies the general curious Katycat, so that they don't have to go looking for this information on fansites or fanwikis which generally have a lower quality standard. Anyways, I also have some comments on the rework edit you did, which is pretty good.
 * To kill two birds with one stone when it comes to points 1 and 2, I think some form of "She worked on a Columbia Record debut with x, y, and z before being dropped from the label, and some of those songs appeared on OOTB" might work the best.
 * Feel free to correct me on this, but I honestly don't think that she worked with either Dr Puke Luke or Max Martin before One Of The Boys. The Part of Me documentary says that in the 2002-2006 Fingerprints period, she wrote about 100~ songs, give or take. We know some of those songs, like Self Inflicted, Ur So Gay, Hook Up, and Long Shot. Luke nor Martin are credited on any of those songs.
 * Especially that Hook Up was given to Kelly Clarkson who's literally been forced to work with Luke before, why doesn't Luke appear on the credits of the final version of I Do Not Hook Up then? So yeah, I don't think that saying she worked with Luke or Max Martin prior to One Of The Boys. The only songs that they even have any credits on the OOTB album are I Kissed A Girl and Hot N Cold, which are the albums most pop sounding songs anyways.
 * The reason why I'm adding major label debut to the sentence regarding One Of The Boys is because the majority of people and reliable sources consider One Of The Boys to be her "debut" even though that's not technically the case. But reliable sources seem to follow it anyways. The sources you linked are retrospective articles, which deal with early life, childhood, etc, so of course Katy Hudson would be mentioned, but even huge sources like the Grammys refer to One Of The Boys as her major label debut. The general public clearly considers it to be the album that really brought her up on the scene.
 * I'll try to make some changes to kind of have the best of both worlds, per WP:BRD, because I feel that there's enough pros and cons for both sides of the discussion anyways so :b shanghai. talk to me 23:12, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Wait, I just found some more interesting stuff online that might settle the debate between "(A)" vs "Fingerprints." We all know that (A) has the leaked CD teaser, showing most if not all of the songs that were going to be on the album. Songs like Diamond, Long Shot, A Cup Of Coffee. Another one among of them is "The Box," Katy's probably most emo song ever next to Circle The Drain.
 * Anyways, this CD teaser says that the original incarnation of the (A) album was going to come out in fall 2004. However, something interesting is that in 2006, smack dab in the middle of when Fingerprints was being made, her management released a promo CD (scroll down) that included "The Box". So this at least confirms that The Box was going to be on both incarnations of this 2002-2006 album. It does kind of strengthen the argument that they were always the same album tbh. I think this could be enough grounds that justify calling them the same album in the article. Hope this reply isn't too WP:FORUM-y lmao haha, just trying to show evidence :b shanghai. talk to me 23:51, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I just watched that teaser twice and all I found were song clips and a tentative announcement for some fall 2004 release date (which of course didn't happen), no album title was given there as far as I can tell. Is there something else I missed? In any case, Fingerprints at least has firm evidence of being used as a name and looking back on my changes that involved Luke and Max, I probably should've made it clearer that they were people she collaborated with after going into secular music and before rising to fame. That was my bad. Yes, it counted work on OOTB because they minimally had to have finished its IKAG track before this premiered on April 28, 2008 and went huge. I see what you mean on how the press has often used the "major label debut" thing, but a qualm I have in using that without specifying overall count (especially when OOTB is in fact known to be her second) is that it can give a false impression that she had no previous albums at all. Sometimes it seems like certain articles try to pretend Katy Hudson never happened or counts for nothing, and I resent this because of how misleading such writings are. While KP's second record is undeniably what made her famous, we shouldn't ignore how she made music before it. Speaking of fan sites, you actually ended up linking one of them for that management tidbit with "The Box" (which I did hear in the teaser). I admittedly tried using some other page of katyhudson.ca back in 2013 when seeking to cite details on her, but it was rejected as a subpar source, even though I haven't found any inaccuracies there. In fact, the author is a friend of mine who's really knowledgeable on Ms. Hudson and I'm certain knows more about the 2002–2006 period than me, so maybe I could ask her where she found that promo image. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 00:57, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah you're right there's no strict album title for (A), I just refer to it as that to differentiate it from Fingerprints. Apologies if my use of it has confused you.
 * With Luke and Max, they can either be referred to in the section talking about Teenage Dream, since that's where they're most notable for working with Perry anyways.
 * I understand your point, but Katy Hudson is already referred to as her debut album in the lead. This is why referring to Katy Hudson as her debut album will still be correct, and my point is that it doesn't interfere with pointing out that One Of The Boys is her major label debut with the amount of press sources, but still referring to it as her second studio album.
 * I follow that person on Twitter, she seems very sweet, I'm sure she'd be able to find where she got that licensing sampler source. However, I only used it here as proof of Box being on Fingerprints but I don't actually intend on using this source in the article given that it's still a fansite at the end of the day. :b shanghai. talk to me 02:23, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I follow that person on Twitter, she seems very sweet, I'm sure she'd be able to find where she got that licensing sampler source. However, I only used it here as proof of Box being on Fingerprints but I don't actually intend on using this source in the article given that it's still a fansite at the end of the day. :b shanghai. talk to me 02:23, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

No objections to moving Luke and Max closer to the Teenage Dream mention. If you manage to get another URL for that thing on "The Box" before I do, then I'd be intrigued to see what it is. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 04:22, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs § TopHit
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs § TopHit. The matter seeking consensus is the use of TopHit.ru as a source for song release dates. Thank you, Heartfox (talk) 04:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2022
Wanna change the Katy Perry picture from 2019 to this one: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Katy_perry_2022.jpg 190.234.57.230 (talk) 01:53, 29 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm not so sure about that when A) her eyes are closed in it, B) we've already got a pic from the Play residency within this article's infobox. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 01:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This proposed photo has been deleted from Commons as a copyright violation from the Daily Mail. It's a lousy newspaper but they publish some interesting photographs. Cullen328 (talk) 05:28, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Do add 'Personal life' section
Just do copy the last par. from Orlando Bloom's subsection 'Relationships'. --67.87.177.228 (talk) 05:23, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * ❌ that isn't worth making into a separate section when this would 1) introduce needless repetition of relationship details already mentioned in the page, 2) be risking trouble as it could easily bloated with gossip and other excessive details. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 05:31, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Personal life in lead
Her relationships with Russell Brand & Orlando Bloom should be in the lead. They're high-profile, long-term relationships with very notable entertainers. The first included a marriage & divorce; the second includes a very long engagement & a daughter. This article is a biography; it's about her life, not merely her career. Likewise, the lead should be a summary of the article & of her life, not merely of her career. There's no doubt that both are major parts of her life (public as well as private) & are a world away from irrelevant, long-forgotten, trivial flings. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 08:05, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * While nobody could reasonably deny the fame of those guys, I don't see how that on its own would automatically warrant inclusion as you seem to think. Same goes being engaged/married to somebody or having children with them. It just feels like shoehorning to add them in, especially as a short paragraph when just about everything else there is more focused on KP's professional endeavors. Are they long-term? Yes. Do such relationships have as much prominence as her career? I'm not so sure. This isn't like how Mariah Carey's first husband Tommy Mottola worked on several of her albums or other couples who are famous for their joint work together like Linda and Paul McCartney being part of The Wings, how Jerry Stiller and Anne Meara made up Stiller and Meara, or how Jay-Z and Beyoncé formed The Carters and have other songs together. Overall, I'm more inclined to save relationship details for infobox and article body here. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 20:46, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You're asserting that LTRs aren't important enough for the lead unless they're a major part of the subject's career, but no rule or guideline says that. The lead is a summary of the article. In the case of a biography, the article is about the subject's life, not merely their career. Something that's an important part of the subject's life is important enough to be in the lead. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 23:54, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Straight to the point regarding WP:LEAD. Personal life doesn't coverage celebrities' important facts in a lead in our spaces. Is an encyclopedia, not a fanzine. Despite if they engage with other famous people. Certain cases, like Cher and Bono, or Beyonce and Jay-Z worth a mention, as they have collaborative projects, duos etc. With Katy Perry is not the case. My recommendation, as WikiCleanerMan suggested you in the last previous summary: convert your inquiry in a RfC. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 00:15, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It's far from trivia or gossip. Nowhere does any guideline, policy etc. say that partners are to only be included in the lead if they collaborate professionally. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 04:41, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
 * An RFC is completely unnecessary for this and would only drag things out for too long. Let's just try to sort things out promptly without one. Anyway, Jim has misunderstood my point, which is that the personal life isn't something she's noted for as much as her career. I'm not saying that working together is a requirement for adding to the lead, just that those were instances of people being linked to one another more prominently. We indeed aren't supposed to cover every single detail within the lead. It would get bloated that way. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 01:14, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Those two LTRs have gained a great deal of international media coverage, so she's certainly known for them. Not as much as her singing career, but famous entertainers are usually known primarily for their career. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 04:41, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
 * In the Internet era, for a pop singer like Katy Perry private details about their life are widely reported, even through circular reporting. But as three users, including me, noticed this doesn't deserve an inclusion for lead as you suggested. Take another additional examples, such as Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey or Celine Dion, as their marriages impacted at some point their career/life. Once again, is not the case with Perry. If you really still arguing this is important, a RfC could be your next step but as SNUGGMUS commented, could be just a WP:SNOWBALL. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 04:46, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

De Soi
Katy co-founded the beverage company De Soi with Morgan McLachlan at the start of the year. I've found a Vogue article discussing it, though I'm not sure how or if to include this information in the article. UltrasonicMadness (talk) 00:15, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * What you've added is fine. I just expanded on it a bit and revised some wording. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 00:19, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2022
Within the overview tab the word “Pretty” in the following sentence should be replaced with “Perry” to accurately reflect the artist’s name: In April 2007, Pretty signed to Capitol Records. 2A02:C7F:4A28:9C00:9013:5E82:4763:84C1 (talk) 09:26, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Cannolis (talk) 10:22, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Katy Perry's vocal type is listed incorrectly
The article mentions that Katy Perry possesses a contralto vocal range, however, Katy Perry is actually a very Britney Spears like soprano who could qualify as a contralto. On tracks such as Teenage Dream and Roar Perry showcases her usage of the falsetto, which in some ways could be referred to as a light lyric soprano. But that might be just me.

So maybe you could edit the article some and change the article to "Katy Perry is a lyric soprano" ?; Thanks. (2601:C6:8480:1F10:BC49:9A8C:2128:ACD2 (talk) 04:44, 13 December 2022 (UTC))

Twitter reference in lead
Should we remove the sentence that mentions she is the most followed woman on Twitter? Twitter has recently gone down the shitter anyways so there's no point. Besides, her Billboard Spotlight Award and being the "reigning Queen of Camp" (Vogue's words) are probably more important than having a lot of followers. PHShanghai &#124; they/them (talk) 11:04, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Unless another female gains more followers there, I object to removing this as it's a big record she achieved, and whether it has "gone down the shitter" is irrelevant to overall count. We can most definitely have that and the spotlight award in the lead at the same time. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 13:27, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Her musical influences
I'm not sure what the correct way to fix this is, but the "Influences" section of the article says, "Katy Perry primarily draws inspiration from music of the 1980s; Madonna, Queen, and Garbage have been cited as instrumental to her artistry." However, Garbage is clearly a 90's artist -- their self titled debut was released in 1995 and most of their big albums are from the late 1990s and earlier 2000's. I'm not entirely sure what should be done with the quote, though. 2601:C6:8480:1F10:21F4:277B:6C6E:328D (talk) 16:16, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2023
Katy Perry is also an actress 2601:580:C180:22D0:44CC:7D37:C786:7E4D (talk) 00:44, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Lightoil (talk) 02:31, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Katy Perry
Is Katy Perry the girl in the Skip the Dishes commercials? 2001:56A:F775:D700:B893:141C:D9CE:6F76 (talk) 01:51, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. <span style="font-family: Gill Sans MT, Arial, Helvetica; font-weight:140;"> General Ization <i style="color: #000666;">Talk </i> 01:55, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Idk
 * maybe 2601:543:437F:6930:8869:64EA:2195:AD67 (talk) 00:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:23, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Katy Perry performing Vegas residency (cropped).png

Legal name
I red somewhefe and it says that Katy Perry is her legal name. ErceÇamurOfficial (talk) 18:09, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, that's just a stage name; her legal name is Katheryn Elizabeth Hudson. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 18:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks!
 * I wonder if Katy Perry was formerly her legal name. ErceÇamurOfficial (talk) 19:52, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * No, it never has been. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 01:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Does Katy Hudson still count as her first studio album?
"Happy 15th anniversary to my first musical child, One of the Boys! (I know omg the passing of time is WILD)"

Does it still count as her first album if even Katy Perry considers One of the Boys as her first album? I'm kind of asking as the anniversary of OOTB rolls out. PHShanghai &#124; they/them (talk) 11:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * It most certainly DOES count, and OOTB still is her second. Why she would downplay that is beyond me. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 11:57, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Get her Jade. I live for shade against Ms Shoesday Tuesday . Is there any information in the main article about the 15th anniversary and 10th anniversary editions of OOTB and Prism respectively yet? It was just announced earlier (same reason why I'm so happy today lol) PHShanghai &#124; they/them (talk) 12:17, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * All I know so far is that they (along with a 13th anniversary edition of Teenage Dream) are being bundled in a box set of vinyls with other merchandise and the whole thing should come out on October 20, 2023. TBD on whether to include all of that within this article. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 12:24, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I think to a degree it should be included, if not in this article then the respective album articles. Rare gems from her 2000s catalog like A Cup of Coffee are being released on streaming and will presumably be included in said box set, finally. PHShanghai &#124; they/them (talk) 12:28, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Most definitely they should be added to the album pages. That was never something I doubted for a moment. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 16:55, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

"Katheryn Perry" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Katheryn_Perry&redirect=no Katheryn Perry] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. ErceÇamurOfficial (talk) 11:37, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Intro paragraph is absolutely awful
First it calls her the Queen of Camp, then mentions a failed Gospel album and being dropped by a record label. I’m not even particularly a huge fan but Katy is a best selling artist who has been streamed billions of times and just sold her catalogue for $200+ million. She is a huge success. The intro paragraph is negative and doesn’t at all show her relevance, mentioning Fireworks, her huge hit etc. her talent as a writer is completely ignored. Imagine your entire life being written about and the intro is a list of teenage failures. It’s mad. 85.255.234.164 (talk) 17:19, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It actually isn't so negative to bring her first album up, and Firework is mentioned later in the introduction. We can't fit all the big details into one paragraph. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 19:12, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * None of her teenage life is important enough for the first para, which should describe her notability. She became notable in 2008. Many entertainers take years to become notable. I've split the first para into two; perhaps more should be added to the first. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 17:33, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Those admittedly look kind of bare now, especially compared to subsequent paragraphs. If it's not feasible to merge those back together, then I'm not sure yet what else to add, but am open to ideas. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 20:19, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Incredibly unflattering picture
I've just got to say. The main picture of her is very unflattering. 2001:569:57B2:4D00:5935:465A:5303:5D93 (talk) 23:53, 25 October 2023 (UTC)


 * No it isn't- she looks fine. It is a photo from her Vogue Magazine video detailing all the looks in her life as an entertainer. PHShanghai &#124; they/them (talk) 09:02, 29 October 2023 (UTC)