Talk:Katyusha (song)

Media file
Whoever linked the enthusiastic performance by a drunken deaf non-Russian speaker as a sample, please find some better performer! It's a sheer insult and is as far from the original as it ever can get. The only good thing about it that it's not copyrighted, as no-one would ever consider that noise an intelectual property.

Apple trees
'Yabloki' for 'apples ' is mis-spelled both Russian and transliteration; there may be more errors. There's no 'n' in 'yabloki', just a 'k' sound'.


 * It's "yabloni" for "apple trees", not "apples", and it's correct. -- EJ 12:03, 20 August 2005 (UTC)


 * EJ is RIGHT. It's yabloni. Just heard the song again and my Russian wife confirmed. --Pinnecco 21:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Italian Version
There is also an Italian Version called "Fischia il vento" (The Wind Blows). It is a Word War Second Partisan Song. 

When "G" is "V"
Ok. It is not the first time that people edited the translateration of Katyusha and changed the words with г (such as степного) to "g" (stepnogo) instead of "v" (stepnovo).

We all know that by general rule, г transliterates as "G". However, in these cases, it is pronouced as "v". Russian is a language full of exceptions. And please, bear in mind these are TRANSLITERATIONS. If you have any doubt, please download the tune on the link provided in the article and LISTEN to it. --Pinnecco 22:13, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * What? A 'V' sound? I don't see any B (veh). It's clearly г (geh).


 * -G &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.140.52 (talk &bull; contribs).


 * Pinnecco means that степного has been phonetically transcribed stepnovo, instead of being transliterated stepnogo. It would probably be more appropriate to transliterate in this case.  —Michael Z. 2006-01-18 23:09 Z 


 * NO one, NO ONE that I EVER met that knows Russian (that includes my wife, her entire family and our friends) says 'stepnogo'. They say 'stepnoVo'. The transliterated text has been added to the article so people that can't read cyrillc can try to follow the music. --Pinnecco 09:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Pinnecco, people will be misled by seeing the 'stepnogo' transliteration, as this isn't how it is pronounced. Any 'ogo' (ого) ending in Russian is pronouned 'ova' or 'ovo' (depending on the region). The only way to reconcile the two that I can think of would be by adding a footnote on the 'stepnogo' transliteration noting how it is supposed to be pronounced. Otherwise, I think 'stepnovo' should remain. Schnabeltier Angriff 17:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Нет никакой разницы как вы это произносите "степного" или "степново". Тоже самое можно сказать про "сизого" или "сизово". Вас везде поймут правильно. Но писать следует только "степного" и "сизого". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Лаврик (talk • contribs) 09:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to be clear:


 * Transliteration is the reproduction of Cyrillic spelling using Latin letters. This is widely used in Wikipedia to make Cyrillic written text accessible to readers of English.  For the guideline, see Naming conventions (Cyrillic) and Romanization of Russian.


 * Phonetic transcription is used to convey pronunciation. This would be more suitable for a song sheet rather than an encyclopedia.  To convey pronunciation in Wikipedia, the International Phonetic Alphabet is most commonly used.  Guideline: Manual of Style (pronunciation).  Russian-language example: National Anthem of the Soviet Union.


 * So, to write stepnovo in a transliteration is misleading, because it says that the original spelling is степново. We also don't transliterate akanye, so it's not stepnova.  The pronunciation of Russian is up to the reader.  —Michael Z. 2006-08-03 18:01 Z 


 * Ok, point taken. Thanks for the explanation. I opt to have a phonetic transcription on this article, thouh. See my and Schnabeltier Angriff's views above. --Pinnecco 12:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I have changed the transliteration to match the rules listed in Romanization of Russian. I'm not sure whether a transliteration is all that valuable to English speakers as opposed to a phonetic transcription, but if it claims to be a transliteration it should be one, and the old version was very inconsistent in whether it tried to reflect Russian pronunciation or spelling (for example the "г" in "степного" was written as "v," but right after that the "г" in "сизого" was written as "g"; same with unstressed "о" being written as "o"/"a," etc.). In any case, a phonetic transcription should use the IPA. 69.91.0.20 (talk) 02:13, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Deleted text
The following text was commented out some time ago; I'm deleting from the body and moving here. - Bantman 19:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Katyusha is a Soviet song often related to Communism and the soviets, and although it is a song of a quite pleasant melody and its lyrics are about love and have nothing to do with politics, it can displease people who are against Communism. --The comment seems to be unencyclopedic and Molobish: I don't see how the song is related to Communism or soviets


 * Then I suggest that you get yourself more informed. This is a song that was often sung by Soviet officials and soldiers. It talks about a girl that misses her lover who is enlisted, and it was wrote in the Soviet times. The soviet feeling is DEEPLY IMPLIED IN THIS SONG. Your argument is like saying that "Facetta Nera" has nothing to do with Facism because it doesn't explicitly talk about it. I've been into social events where this song had upset nationals from countries that had been occupied by the USSR. --Pinnecco 22:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

"Katyusha" says that Katyusha's lover is defending their country at the front. That's the only politics/war linked part of the text. Any link to communism (which shouldn't be a problem anyway unless due to ignorance) is not explicit. Several USSR "occupied" countries have a mild despice for anything Russian due to the Cold War, but that doesn't imply that "Katyusha" promotes the political system established in USSR. It's just a war-time romantic Soviet song. -Unregistered user, "Zealot_Kommunizma"


 * I know this comment is old, but a few weeks ago I met with some Lithuanians. They are not very found of Katyusha for the reasons I have mentioned above. I agree that most of the time the connection to communism might be made due to ignorance, but I've met well educated people from former soviet countries (i.e.: post-graduate students), and whom seem to be well aware of history and origins of Katyusha -- nevertheless, then are not very found of this tune either. I agree this song doesn't imply Soviet propaganda such as The Sacred War, but nevertheless the argument I hear is that "it doesn't matter, it is a Soviet song. And we don't like Soviets". I personally disagree with this view, but who am I to judge? My country was never "invaded" by Soviets. --Pinnecco 12:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I have recently edited the introduction, but it was deleted later. I stated that Katyusha is not simply Russian folk song, but probably the most recognisable Russian melody around the world. You can hear people whistling Katyusha from Japan to Europe. I don't know why it was deleted. People should be aware of this fact also. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Banconi (talk • contribs) 10:16, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
 * in wikipedia all info requres references to reliable sources, see WP:CITE, especially for opinions like this. - Altenmann >talk 02:22, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Translation Please
Okay, I'd added information about the Chinese version about the song and also added the lyrics in Russian (my information source: the Chinese Wikipedia). I don't speak Russian, so can any kind Russian-speaking Wikipedians translate the the lyrics into English please? It would be good if we also have an English lyrics. Thanks. By the way, shall we add the lyrics in Japanese, Italian, Chinese versions as well (since these three versions were talked about in the article)? I do have the Chinese version of lyrics. --Cantaire87 13:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

22:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)22:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)22:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)22:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)22:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't speak Russian either, but I've been messing about with Google translate etc all evening and I can confirm that the two English versions of the lyrics (why two?) that have been put on the main page bear very little relation to the actual lyrics of the Russian song.

This is my version of the last verse:

Let him remember a simple woman,

Let him hear as she sings,

Let him save his homeland,

And love Katusha save.

That is about as close to a literal translation of the Russian as I could get. There's no mention of doves or proud nations in the Russian at all, yet both of the so-called English versions on the main page mention doves and one of them mentions a 'proud' nation. Those are not in the lyrics of the song at all!

This is a very nice and simple song. I think it would be useful to do a version in English that is as close to the Russian as possible. I can put mine in (in full) unless anyone has any objection. John2o2o2o (talk) 22:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Copyright Violation?!? PLEASE EXPLAIN
How can the LYRICS OF A FOLK SOVIET SONG be copyrighted? By who?! I'll be adding the lyrics back. If anyone wants to remove it, you'll have to prove that these lyrics are copyrighted. Katyusha is a traditional folk song made during the war and there is no such as thing such as copyright then. Check the Tetris article. In fact:


 * "Works belonging to the former Soviet government or other Soviet legal entities published before January 1st, 1954, are also public domain in Russia."

Also..


 * Article 6. Object of Copyright. General Provisions


 * Copyright shall not apply to ideas, methods, processes, systems, means, concepts, principles, discoveries, and facts.

Article 8. Works That Are Not Objects of Copyright


 * The following shall not be objects of copyright:

* official documents (laws, judicial decisions, and other legislative, administrative and judicial texts), as well as their official translations; * state symbols and signs (flags, emblems, orders, banknotes and other national symbols and signs); * works of folk art; news reports on events and facts.

To sum up, this whole copyright issue is bull*


 * Once again some vandal removed the Russian and transliterated lyrics of Katyusha. I'll be requesting the lyrics to be RE-ADDED and a lock-down of this article if people continue to do this. There is NO REASON to remove the original russian and transliaterated lyrics. I am neutral about the removal of the english translation, though. --201.53.160.159 (talk) 17:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Small comment: it is not a folk song. Its authors are well-known: Mikhail Isakovsky (text) and Matvey Blanter (music) --92.113.223.126 (talk) 20:59, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * IT DOESN'T MATTER!!! No such a thing such as copyright during the SOVIET ERA!!! The song belonged to the SOVIET STATE, TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SOVIET UNION! Isn't that clear enough for those who keep removing the lyrics, or do you need a diagram?! Sometimes is like trying to talk to a horseshoe --189.32.134.16 (talk) 01:06, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This is nonsense. there was copyright in the soviet union, and it is succeeded by russian copyright. - Altenmann >t 04:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

There was copyright in the Soviet Union but it was not valid in the West until the Soviets joined the Berne Convention which may have been in about 1974/75. As soon as someone drums an anonymous folk tune into shape, then copyright starts to exist. There is a rumor that Stalin gifted the copyright of the Katyusha song to the French Communist Party, copyright was obviously not personal property. Boris Rubaschkin added the 'Ras Dva Casatchok' - probably to make it sound more interesting and create a new copyright for himself. The rumor is he had to later on send it all to the French Communist Party. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:996F:6525:C8EB:B0F2 (talk) 07:19, 24 August 2021 (UTC)


 * It's great how you completely and utterly ignored the "Works belonging to the former Soviet government or other Soviet legal entities published before January 1st, 1954, are also public domain in Russia." part, along with all of the other valid points he made. 68.83.122.80 (talk) 15:26, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The author Isakovsky is not Soviet government. - Altenmann >t 14:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Katyusha.ogg
Sorry, I am going to delete a reference to this file from the article. It's terribly performed and it's completely off-key! It's very distant from the original! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.218.28.226 (talk) 07:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

"Free" translation
The "free" translation seems subjective and perhaps doesn't belong in an encyclopedic description. The more literal English translation is truer to the original Russian and yet stills sounds acceptable in English. The "free" translation should probably be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.241.232 (talk) 03:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. "Free" translation of unknown auntorship does not belog here. `'Míkka>t 08:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Why did you remooved all translations then?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yegor Chernyshev (talk • contribs) 08:25, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And what happened to the original lyrics too?... Adys (talk) 09:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I have restored from a November 2007 version. I do not know why anyone is removing these lyrics; they are clearly encyclopedic and are certainly in the public domain.  Nimur (talk) 16:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Violation of copyright laws is not some community design in wikipedia. it is against the law. If you don't know the copyright status, you dont have right to assume it is free. In fact, it is not. If you continue inserting the text of the song into wikipedia, the article will be protected from editing. Or, if you prefer, you will be blocked from editing. `'Míkka>t 21:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * PD-Russia. Nimur (talk) 05:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be made absolutely clear that the copyright status is well defined (there are no assumptions being made) - in this case, the work is in the public domain, as it was authored before 1940. As a public domain work in both the US and Russia, there is no applicable copyright to the lyric.  Nimur (talk) 05:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

and the creator (if known) died before that date - Mikhail Isakovsky died in 1973. `'Míkka>t 15:32, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Since when are lyrics/translations copyrighted? How would https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_(website) even exist? And as to "translation by unknown author" what does it matter, it is an extremely common song? This would be like not having the lyrics to 'The star spangled banner'. (just so you know, the wikipedia article on it does have the lyrics) The JJ   chat?  14:32, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Song lyrics, as any other creative works, are copyrighted. The copyright has expiration time. Therefore old songs may be freely copied. - üser:Altenmann >t 15:40, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation Page
Should there be a disambiguation or separate articles for what are clearly different songs? Nimur (talk) 15:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess the Italian version can stay here since it's actually set to the original tone, but the Japanese version? Why does every single article has to mention Japan regardless of how far-fetched it sounds in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.77.81 (talk) 22:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Because 4chan runs the internet.Shimo1989 (talk) 05:39, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Article
This article is about the russian song Katyusha, the japanese song has nothing to do in this page, (it is a completely different song) so I will remove it.--Mr nonono (talk) 20:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Reverted. You cannot delete correct information from wikipedia on formal grounds. - Altenmann >t 23:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Source
The source, which is some kind of Chinese I don't know which should be translated to English. Of course the song 'helped' win the Soviets the war, but many things did. Hehe, but just to get more info out of the Chinese source would be helpful. 81.68.255.36 (talk) 18:16, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Swedish students' version
Hardly very prominent, but much appreciated amongst Swedish university students is the version of the song called "Lille Olle". We can not hear Katyusha without thinking of a boy gone wrong in his drug abuse... http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://sekel.studorg.liu.se/sangbok/lille-olle/&hl=en&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 Do consider mentioning it in the article if appropriate. 217.159.233.210 (talk) 08:51, 25 August 2010 (UTC) CarlJohanSveningsson

Totalitarian censors at Russian Wikipedia
I think it is ironic in the extreme that the entire version of this song is rendered on the English language Wiki, but totalitarian censors at the Russian Wikipedia keep deleting it and have now issued me a "warning" for breaking copyright laws by trying to publish the full version. This is hilariously unjustified since all Soviet public works published in 1954 or earlier are in the public domain (this song was first published in 1938).

No wonder Russian Wikipedia is such a failure with far fewer articles than those of other global languages, it being directed by power hungry freaks like OneLittleMouse.

I don't know how it works on Wikipedia but please someone resolve this issue. --SublimeWik (talk) 07:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * you paranoid? ShinePhantom (talk) 07:56, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

How can I be paranoid when I am being censored on all sides? I see that OneLittleMouse has deleted my request to answer my questions on his talk page on why he censors and threatens me in a Stalinist fashion. This paints him as a coward who obviously doesn't want an open discussion on this issue. --SublimeWik (talk) 08:03, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

copyright
The song is copyrighted; see Copyright law of the Soviet Union (transitioned into the Copyright law of Russia. - Altenmann >t 17:11, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Girls und Panzer
The song surprisingly appears in the anime. Did the Japanese voice actresses sing it in correct Russian, in the original show? הראש (talk) 22:36, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Maybe, but you should add info about it if you know! Coolcam6578 (talk) 20:15, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Older than 1938?
I'll guess the melody is older than 1938, and that it originally was related to Virgin Mary. The Norwegian singer-songwriter Geirr Lystrup has written a Norwegian version, "Jomfru Majas under" (= "The Miracles of Virgin Mary"), without relations to the woman Kayusha or The Patriotic War. Pål Jensen (talk) 20:31, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Borat - Kazakhstan anthem - is this based on Katyusha?
Was listening to this song, and noticed the Kazakhstan anthem from Borat sounds very very similar. Is it just me? Would it be worth adding this to a 'popular culture' section? S eoJ (talk) 12:19, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Just you or me too does not matter. WP:RS. - Altenmann >talk 15:54, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Modern era
It would be interesting to add how the song is used in the modern era, say, the last 20 years or so. I recently saw on youtube more and more "Katyusha" variants, some of which were live performances. Evidently russian propaganda is still popularizing the song these days. 2A02:8388:1641:4980:0:0:0:2 (talk) 19:02, 1 April 2023 (UTC)