Talk:Katzenberger Trial

Racial Laws
The racial laws did not prohibit sexual relations between "Aryans" and "Non-Aryans" it only banned sexual relations with Jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.246.232.41 (talk) 21:50, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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Irene Seiler
Irene Seiler died aged 74 in Apolda. She has a German Wikipedia entry too, but that's the best source I can find for this information. If the reference was acceptable, I think this fact should be added to the article.--TrottieTrue (talk) 00:33, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Added it. TrottieTrue (talk) 12:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Grammatical style
An editor to this article, User:AlsoWukai, keeps edit warring here (see recent edit history). They seem to insist the article maintains at least one usage of the word “But” (which they introduced) to start a sentence. Their argument goes that there is nothing grammatically wrong with this style. This may be, but it’s far more widespread on Wikipedia to find the word “However” starting sentences - it sounds more encyclopaedic. The article was temporarily protected as a result of this edit warring. It was suggested that the issue be discussed on the article’s talk page, so I’m starting this discussion. The problem is I’m not sure there’s enough traffic on this article to generate any responses. I have removed instances of “But” starting a sentence here because it makes the article stand out from others on WP. I’d say that improves the article. TrottieTrue (talk) 12:14, 20 June 2022 (UTC)


 * You keep saying that "However" starts sentences on Wikipedia "far more" than "But" does. But (a) you've offered no proof of that, (b) that something is more common does not mean it's better, and (c) I have repeatedly pointed out to you that your prejudice against starting sentences with "But" has no basis whatsoever, and you have been unable to refute that. Grammarians agree with me, not with you. Why do you persist in this quixotic mission? AlsoWukai (talk) 04:59, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * This article used "However" for over a decade before you decided to replace it with "But". I don't see any valid justification for that. Also, looking at your edit history, I can see that you changed words in a similar manner elsewhere many times - so I think it is not TrottieTrue who is on a mission here... Futurix (talk) 11:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)


 * User:AlsoWukai, I did offer some proof of “however” being used to start sentences more frequently than “but” on Wikipedia. I pointed out that the former could be found on the WP featured articles from the last week, and the latter could not. From my experience reading WP articles, that is generally the case. Therefore, there is a tone on WP which means that your preferred usage jars when reading it. I’ve also pointed out that your preferred usage may be fine in journalism (for example), or fiction. Wikipedia, however, is neither of those things. It’s an encyclopaedia. You keep linking to that Wikipedia article, which is unsurprisingly something you’ve been involved in editing, so reflects your POV. And unsurprisingly, it is littered with usage of “but” to start a sentence. I’ve modified the article, and again you reverted the changes. From what I recall, reversion is unnecessary when the edit you wish to revert has not actually made the article worse. If anyone is on a “mission”, it is you - two other editors, User:Futurix and User:Denham331 have undone your reversion here, and you have repeatedly reverted it back. I have been replacing “but” at the start of articles where I find it simply because it does not sound like the vast majority of what I have read on WP. As Futurix has pointed out, you introduced your usage on this article only recently. That you’re apparently doing so elsewhere is concerning.—TrottieTrue (talk) 12:03, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Your reply is incorrect and illogical in several ways. Here are the main ones:
 * (1) You claim that some featured articles' use of "However" shows that Wikipedia uses it to start sentences more often than "but". Such a small sample cannot show any such thing.
 * (2) You imply that if (1) is true, "However" is preferable to "But". But as you well know as an experienced editor, most Wikipedia articles are not in good stylistic shape. So even if (1) is true, it does not follow that "However" is preferable.
 * (3) You allege that Common_English_usage_misconceptions reflects my POV on starting sentences with conjunctions because I have edited it. In fact, that article always claimed that it is a misconception that starting sentences with conjunctions is wrong. As is my wont, I have edited the article for style only, not content. If I had changed it to reflect my POV as opposed to that of the usage authorities it cites, my changes would rightly have been reverted.
 * (4) It is true that reversion is unnecessary when an edit has not made an article worse. But it is not prohibited either. The real question is whether there is any reason to change sentences that start with "But" so that they start with "However" instead. As I have clearly and repeatedly shown, you have not offered any. That is because there is none. AlsoWukai (talk) 22:35, 28 June 2022 (UTC)