Talk:Kazushi Sakuraba/Archive 1

Untitled
I made a few changes in the Sakuraba article to bring up points I found to be notable. Does anyone have any additional suggestions?
 * Looks good, thanks! Please consider registering, but in any case, always sign your posts with ~ . Thanks! --Malathion 21:21, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Pride Commentator (Japanese Version)
Can anyone add information about Sakuraba as a commentator for pride. After he became revered by the Japanese, they sat him ringside when he wasn't fighting. I just watched Pride 21 and he was commentating on all the fights and I know many events before this he was doing the same. Are there any Japanese-speakers out there who can add info on his role as a commentator or point us in the direction for information on the subject? Borisb73 00:41, 11 December 2007 (PST)

The Kimo fight?
I noticed the Kimo fight got erased from the article. I've seen the fight and it looks suspicious, and Saku's stated he threw that fight. Still, Kimo maintains it was not a work and it's in Sherdog's fight finder. What's to consider NPOV? NonTelly 09:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I just registered! Made a few minor aesthetic changes...
I switched the heading "biography" to "early years" and divided the rest of the bio into seperate sections. In addition to what I added regarding the UWFi-Gracie rivalry and the Saku-Gracie rivalry, I would like to at some point expand on Sakuraba's amateur career and his catch-as-catch-can training if I can ever find solid information on it. Sakuraba was at least a national freshman champion in Japan, which means he defeated all other participating freshman in a tournament to determine the best freshman...but I'm not clear on details since then...so I changed it from "national champion" to "collegiate champion", since although it is viable to call him a national champion, it is also a bit of a stretch. Let me know if anything I put in comes off as unbiased or unprofessional. I think that the Kimura parallels and the note about Sakuraba not appearing to bear the Gracies ill-will may come off as hagiographic if not phrased carefully...I did my best to put it in an objective way. Let me know if I succeeded.

--69.208.243.171 00:31, 14 July 2005 (UTC)kforcer

opinions about the Shamrock fight
As far as I know, Tito just made a comment along the lines of "they screw you in Japan if you fight against a Japanese fighter" but that was before he even saw the fight, he had just heard about it. Anyone have a source? I know that Frank Shamrock gave an detailed analysis of the stoppage and that it's in writing.

Real Height
According to the database at: http://www.fcfighter.com/news.htm Saku's height is 5'9. The Wikipedia article and Sherdog have him listed as 6'0. What is his real height? --Jayson Virissimo 06:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 6'0 sounds right, he's always looked slightly taller than Wanderlei Silva in their pre-match staredowns and Wand is 5'11. -- Trench 20:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sakuraba is 5'11" Jobjobjob 09:46, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Whose that Idiot ?
I can see that Some one has rubbed out and edited Out some useful and important imformation on the feud between Sakuraba and the gracies, especially the things that happened IN and during the match, now which Idiot did that? Could someone please put that info back in!!! --T00C00L 01:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Now listen, this is a public encyclopedia and you can ADD whenever you feel like it, but you can NEVER rub, edit out or decrease the information here.
 * Take a look through the page's | History and find out yourself. I've had a quick look at the changes since January and no major info about the Gracie rivalry has been removed. Incidentally precisely because this is a public encyclopedia anyone can remove info from articles if it's not relevant or verifiable. -- Trench 18:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

ok, since you cant say anything, than i would,(and you just shut up!)--T00C00L 08:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC) Just added these in: ''However, it could be argued that Royce's main intention in entering the tournament was not winning the Grand Prix crown but rather doing battle with the Gracie family's new nemesis, Kazushi Sakuraba. In fact, a special set of rules were requested by the Gracies that would apply only to the potential Sakuraba-Royce match, including no referee stoppages and no time-limits, the fight ending only in the event of a submission or knock-out.''

''Royce advanced to the quarterfinals by beating Sakuraba's stablemate Nobuhiko Takada (ironically enough, with a judge's decision), before finding himself matched up with Sakuraba. Gracie and Sakuraba battled for an hour and a half. Early in the fight, Sakuraba nearly ended things with a knee-bar towards the end of the first round. Later on, Royce returned the favor with a guillotine choke which Sakuraba lingered in, but eventually escaped from. As the confrontation stretched on, the Gracie's own no time-limit rules began to work against Royce asSakuraba's wrestling skills and balance nullified Royce's ability to score a takedown and — in some instances — even pull guard.''

''Even Royce's ever-present jiu-jitsu gi became a weapon for the wrestler to use against him as Sakuraba used it to help him control Gracie on the instances the fight did come to the ground. However, with Sakuraba's control of the takedown, these instances of ground warfare became increasingly sporadic. After the 90 minute battle of punishing leg kicks, Royce's brother threw in the towel. Gracie could no longer stand and suffered a broken foot from accumulated damage. Prior to the bout, there was speculation that the fight was largely personal, with Sakuraba looking to atone for his stablemate's defeats and Royce looking to avenge his brother. However, following the the stoppage, Royce and Sakuraba embraced in the ring. Gracious in victory, Sakuraba flatteringly pointed to Royce as the superior ground-technician when questioned as to why he didn't engage him on the ground more frequently.'' --T00C00L 08:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed Rickson comment
I removed the comment about Sakuraba fighting Rickson by the end of the year. I know it is possible but they have been saying this for more then 6 years! I don't really think it belongs in an encyclopedia article until it gets a mainstream MMA news organization saying it will happen. --Jayson Virissimo 00:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Protected
This page has been protected due to the editing by unregistered users wherein illegal links were posted. If you wish to discuss the policies and guidelines, you may also do so here. Let's try to keep the article clean! Wyldephang 16:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

improve or else
i believe we oughta improve and add in the championships and accomplishments section, cuz Sakuraba oughta have won at least ONE or two wrestling (or fighting) championships in his life !!! T00C00L 12:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Toocool, just to be clear, what you added regarding the Royce Gracie match was my writing...
...not to sound arrogant, but I haven't done much in life. So just wanna make sure I get credit for the little bit I do. I originally wrote it for the Royce Gracie article, before you copy and pasted it onto the Sakuraba article. Of course, then I removed it because at the time, it didn't fit. After revamping the Sakuraba article however, I figured I'd save some time and just copy the section about the Royce fight from that article and then change the description on the Royce page.

Sakuraba Out With Brain Circulatory Condition
--Jayson Virissimo 17:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism?
"On the 5th of February 2007 Yahoo Japan reported that Kazushi Sakuraba died under mysterious circumstances after the brakes failed on his Lotus Esprit Twin Turbo on 3 Fanong Highway, Tokyo. The car plummeted aproximently 200 feet into the bay below. Foul play is suspect and the accident is currently under investigation by the TADP. Yaddayanamean.."

This is random vandalism, right? 220.238.163.59 10:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Tamura vs. Sakuraba fight fake or real?
Does anybody know if this match on youtube with Kiyoshi Tamura is real?--Ty580 16:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It is fake - pro-wrestling in Japan was very stiff and resembled/resembles MMA - but is prescripted. Jobjobjob 09:38, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Sakuraba's Logo
Can somebody please put together a short explanation of what Sakuraba's logo means? I'm glad to see the "39" explanation, but the KS/ICS/ICG logo goes without mention. I always read it as KS (his initials), but some people claim that it is actually something in Japanese. The REAL story would make a great addition to this article.

To My knowledge the only reason people get other interpretations that the initials is the font.


 * ICS actually is the same thing as KS. Look at the logo again it is just a strange font. KS stands for Kazushi Sakuraba and Saku sounds kind of like saying "39" in Japanese. --Jayson Virissimo 19:22, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It is "saku."

0 zero/rei 零 1 ichi 一 2 ni 二 3 san 三 4 shi/yon 四 5 go 五 6 roku 六 7 shichi/nana 七 8 hachi 八 9 kyuu/ku 九 http://japanese.about.com/od/japanesevocabulary/a/numbers.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.253.73.146 (talk) 12:32, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Please explain to me why this article is "Start Class" in quality and of "low importance" to professional wrestling..
Apparently, when I give the article the rating I believe it deserves, I am committing "vandalism". I wouldn't want to do that, so could someone please explain the "Start Class" rating for an article which I and others have put so much work into? I believe this is the most comprehensive English-language biography of Sakuraba on the internet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kforcer (talk • contribs) 14:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Style of Fighting: More of a Shootfighter?
I noticed that the styles credited to Sakuraba are catch wrestling and freestyle wrestling. While I certainly do not wish to minimize these aspects of his fighting technique and experience (particularly catch wrestling), I feel that he would more accurately be described as a shootfighter/shootwrestler. While catch wrestling does not seem to exist as a pure grappling style anymore, Sakuraba incorporates a lot of striking into his fighting technique, and these techniques, particularly his kicks, seem to be largely influenced by striking-based martial arts, especially Muay Thai. Also, he was a pro-wrestler in Japan and, as such, was most likely trained in shoot-style wrestling.69.235.153.240 02:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)James Lopez

I agree there is even footage on youtube and dailymotion of Sakuraba competing in Shoot Fighting wrestling. He is a shootfighter technically and it should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.245.32.2 (talk) 08:31, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Sakuraba as a catch-wrestler
Actually, the Japanese pro-wrestlers of Sakuraba's time were almost catch-wrestlers and direct students of various catch-as-catch-can masters.

In Sakuraba's case, it was Billy Robinson, headmaster of the Snake Pit, where Saku originally learned submissions. And Sakuraba has made a career out of using various staples of catch-wrestling, especially the rolling double wrist-lock. Actually, although Wikipedia has a separate entry for "shoot wrestling" as opposed to "catch wrestling", the stylistic distinction between the two is a bit tenuous. Those that are characterized as shoot-wrestlers invariably were trained by and came out of a catch-wrestling tradition; ultimately, I think they are simply different names for the same style. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.240.35 (talk) 07:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, point taken, but what exactly is the source of his striking techniques, which seem to be derived mainly from Muay Thai? There seems to be no record of his having been trained in any striking-based martial arts, and I know that certainly not all catch wrestlers use the same punches and kicks that Sakuraba does.69.235.153.240 16:20, 30 September 2007 (UTC)James Lopez

It is extremely well known that Sakuraba has trained extensively at Chute Boxe. He has even walked to the ring wearing Chute Boxe. Matthew Meta 14:33, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Kimo fight redux
So, instead of discussing this in the edit summaries, can we please discuss the inclusion of the loss to Kimo here on the talk page, where people can explain their reasoning in full (and hopefully, cite sources)?

Both Sherdog and Full Contact Fighter include the bout in their listings, so absent some reliable sourcing that it should be removed, I think it should be in. However, I'd like to reach a consensus on the matter. gnfnrf 04:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Its going to be very hard to find reputable sources on the subject unless you're going to dig up some old Japanese interviews. Also, there is a bit of controversy about the subject as Kimo has always seen it as a win and Sakuraba has always winked about the loss. I think it's clear in watching the fight that Sakuraba is working and not shooting but I think that's as far as we'll ever get. Since no conclusion is ever going to be found it's probably worth simply addressing the controversy and accompanying theories. Matthew Meta 14:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree we should address the controversy, but to do so, we need a reliable source that states there IS a controversy. I can't find one.  gnfnrf 14:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and remove that "Black Belt in BJJ" Cred until someone can prove he is one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.168.186.100 (talk) 07:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)