Talk:Keele University/Archive 1

Jack Straw
Jack Straw has been added to the Famous Alumni at least twice. He did not take a degree at Keele, but it seems to be a common myth that he did: it was reported by an old page on the Independent's website among other places. Jack Straw went to Leeds University as any fule kno' (and as any reputable biography will tell you). mholland 02:20, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Jack Straw did go to Keele, the Guardian webpage and Jack Straws own Parlimentary page says so, he attented Leeds and Keele universitys. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.93.21.34 (talk &bull; contribs) 23:01, 14 September 2005.


 * Please sign your comments on talk pages. Neither the parliamentary biography or the Guardian one make any such claim. Please link your sources if you have them. mholland 23:10, 18 September 2005 (UTC)


 * As alumni officer at Keele I can confirm that Mr Straw did not attend and complete a course of study at Keele but I do believe he may have been awarded an honorary degree. As for the Foundation Year - it does exist in an amended format expecially for students from backgrounds not traditionally associated with receiving a higher education, who benefit from the broader curriculum and support that the FY programme offers. Michael Mansfield QC is definitely a Keele alumnus and one of whom we are evry proud. John Easom

Turner Bequest
I have just rewritten a pretty POV paragraph on the Turner Bequest, but am not sure when the furore broke (even though I was at Keele at the time...should have paid more attention, I know!). Any input? Peeper 17:13, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Sure, that's improved what I wrote, but I think the collection was really printed books not manuscripts -- I have rewritten to claify. 129.11.144.9 11:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I think the sale by the University was not really to several buyers. They sold the lot to a bookdealer (Simon Finch, www.simonfinch.com, no connection with the VC of same surname of course) who then split it up. The University effectively dismantled the collection as they didn't take any real steps to ensure it would be kept togther. An interesting point about the Newton items is that some had page corners turned down as bookmarks by Newton (not sure how they could be certain really). 129.11.144.154 12:53, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Cochlear implant
Can someone verify the sentence: "The cochlear implant was developed in the Department of Communication and Neuroscience at Keele." - the article on Cochlear implant says otherwise. mervyn 13:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I understood that the Cochlear implant was developed at Keele, but I can't find any information. The relevant person in Ted Evans, who is now retired (published as E.F. Evans). He certainly worked on the function of the Cochleus. He was also an excellent lecturer ;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs)

University ratings
(I'm posting this to all articles on UK universities as so far discussion hasn't really taken off on WikiProject Universities.)

There needs to be a broader convention about which university rankings to include in articles. Currently it seems most pages are listing primarily those that show the institution at its best (or worst in a few cases). See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities. Timrollpickering 22:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Date of establishment
The date of establishment has been changed several times by unregistered users from 1949 to 1974, and the date when Keele gained university status from 1962 to 1992. I don't know if someone is confusing Keele University with Staffordshire University, which is North Staffordshire's former polytechnic (which was founded in the early 1970s and became a university in 1992 with the other former polytechnics). However, Keele University, although geographically close to Staffs University, is a completely separate establishment, and isn't one of the post-1992 universities. The correct date of establishment (1949), and granting of university status (1962) is given in the following Keele University website: http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/uso/alumni/information/historyofkeele.htm as well as in numerous other sources. Ceiriog 20:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Sir Robert Aitken
I have removed the following from the History section:


 * The creation of Keele University also received substantial support from The University of Birmingham Vice-Chancellor Sir Robert Aitken, who also lobbied for the creation of Warwick University and acted as 'Godfather to the University of Warwick'.

I have removed a similar insertion once before, and I'm afraid I can't identify exactly what Sir Robert is supposed to have done for the University. I don't have a copy of the source supplied for this sentence, but it seems to be a book about the University of Birmingham. In what is quite a potted history, I don't think that Aitken merits a mention. — mholland (talk) 16:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I will find out more details but failing to acknowledge it seems to be quite blatant elitism at not acknowleding your link to Birmingham University and the work of others to support its creation. Furthermore just because the book is about Birmingham does not mean it does not link to Keele.  Birmingham University helped found Warwick University too.  I would recommend looking at the referenced book. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spfelton (talk • contribs).


 * I'm grateful for your attention. I agree that Keele owes a debt to the University of Birmingham, just as it owes an equal debt to the other sponsoring institutions (Oxford and Manchester).  I cannot, however, agree that the University owes any personal debt to Robert Aitken.  Indeed, Keele predates Aitken's involvement with Birmingham: it was Raymond Priestley (Birmingham V-C 1938–52) who lobbied Birmingham's Senate for support.  Aitken was in New Zealand at the time of Keele's establishment. — mholland (talk) 01:11, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Controversies
I was wondering if there was any use in this section? I mean compared to controversy sections on most other articles this one is quite mild and pointless.


 * Turner collection
 * Janet Finch

Nobody cares about the former (I have found one source on the issue from a guy who has spent far too much time and effort on the matter than is surely appropriate or healthy) and the latter would surely be best served if it was moved to Finch's page (where there it is already mentioned)? EchetusXe (talk) 12:03, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

User category and userbox
To any editors who attended or who do attend Keele, please check out the following! Template:User Keele Grunners (talk) 09:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Neil Baldwin
Neil is not the holder of a confered degree from Keele University, however he should be awarded an Hon Degree for his ongoing organisational skills for and on behalf of the student community at Keele. He must be recognised for his football and general sporting knowlege. Neil has been at Keele some 50 yrs, and I know of no single person who has a bad word to say about him. Neil MUST be honoured soon. I am not a graduate of Keele however I still feel a part of the community at Keele as I start my 12th season as the 1st team football coach. Neil pursues the intrests of Keele with a determination that many could learn from. Neil is not a great sportsman or academic he just happems to be a very fine human being.He is worthy of any alumni recognition you may wish to consider. Regards, Keith L. Harrison MSc FIIS, Football Coach Keele University.{JULY 2009) Neil Baldwin . Not notable, and not an alumnus.  If anyone thinks he *is* notable, give him an article of his own. - mholland 19:23, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Neil Baldwin is notable. He has been a fixture at Keele University for many years and is an integral part of the Keele community, and this makes him notable to all those who have taken part in Keele life. Neil Baldwin is an alumni in the loose sense of the word as he is a product and a contributor to the Keele environment. He was also a famous fixture at Stoke on Trent football club, ask any Stoke fan and or consult the Stoke fanzines (find the links yourself). I feel it is dismissive and rude to consider someone from a none traditional alumni background as not notable. It stinks of snobbery and ignorance of Keele and the wider stoke area. I shall return him to the notables forthwith.


 * Response is on User talk:Theflash171079. - mholland 11:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I was under the impression that Mr Baldwin did have a degree from Keele. at least that is what I have been led to believe. Can someone confirm? - gchs1186 06.37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Can't offer any evidence, but I was always led to believe he was never a Keele student. I have to agree with mholland - although Neil Baldwin has definitely long been a fixture at Keele, and a mostly well-liked fixture, he is not an alumnus as he was not a Keele student [unless someone can prove otherwise].

Secondly, he probably doesn't merit an entry of his own. Most football clubs' kit managers, however genial, do not have their own entry here. If there is sufficient interest in his exploits, someone can create an entry for him. Hippo43 16:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Someone took down the Neil Baldwin wikipedia page, whoever did this is scum. I have put it back up and will edit it again soon to make it look better. It is what Neil deserves.

JamieHill

I have removed Neil Baldwin from the alumni list - he isn't an alumnus as he didn't attend the university. By all means put him in the trivia section or somewhere else. Hippo43 13:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Removed Baldwin again - he's not an alumnus. And he's not 'Stoke's favourite son' either.Hippo43 13:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You removed Baldwin but left "Edward Benedict Trott - inventor of the water-proof sponge"? He's much less notable :)  - mholland 14:37, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I corrected the spelling of 'water proof sponge', so I must have known what I was doing :) Besides, what has Neil Baldwin ever invented? Hippo43 15:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The difficulty with the notability criteria is that, while Neil is known by thousands across the UK and is the friend of many notable people, there is a dearth of outside sources regarding him. This changed in 2010 when he celebrated 50 years at Keele. The Guardian article has been reprinted by many sources and he has been interviewed by BBC Radio Stoke 18 March 2010. Coupled with the numerous articles found by googling "Neil Baldwin Keele", there is a strong case to be made for re-creating the Neil Baldwin entry. --160.5.4.22 (talk) 10:56, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Point of clarification, while some students favour Neil Baldwin to take a paid position in Keele Univeristy, he is not currently the Vice Chancellor.... that was a joke

Updates
Some of the sections of this article require updating, since Janet Finch is no longer the vice-dean (she retired on Sunday, and has been replaced by Professor Nick Foskett). --MILLANDSON (talk) 11:23, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅--EchetusXe 14:10, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

David Bedford
As much as I like David Bedford from the Maths department, he isn't a notable enough to be a Notable Academic so I've removed his name. He is very popular with students though. KraZug (talk) 11:12, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I have now made the lists reflect only those academics and alumni with a Wikipedia article so as to set a clear criteria for inclusion.--EchetusXe 14:10, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Rankings
I've introduced a ranking table as the current table only quotes one year and the subject data is very confusing. Please feel free to post additional data, if you don't know how to please post the data to my email via wikipedia or post it here - with a reference please Cj1340 (talk) 17:22, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

New corporate identity
Keele University's corporate identity changed a few weeks ago. Does anyone have a jpeg of the new logo that could be put up on this site? Headhitter (talk) 13:03, 31 October 2011 (UTC) I will have a go at it over the next few days and with resolution avoiding copyright issues. Does anyone have a link on the official site as to how the new logo and old logos are meant to be used? Cj1340 (talk) 20:35, 31 October 2011 (UTC) Now done Cj1340 (talk) 18:08, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Richard Swinburne
Richard Swinburne taught the university from 1972 to 1985. Might be worthwhile adding him to the notable academics. --86.27.161.85 (talk) 00:00, 7 November 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.161.85 (talk) 23:58, 6 November 2011 (UTC)  He is categorised as suchCj1340 (talk) 10:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Notable People
Do we need a reference to claim that these individuals are actually Keele staff or alumni? Atraxus (talk) 17:30, 6 February 2012 (UTC) Ideally, yes. However, if they have a link, which the majority do, it should suffice if it has details/refs of their position, career etc etc. Cj1340 (talk) 19:45, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

League tables
This is probably the only uk university page that does not state it's position in the league tables. I am not able to do it right now, but here's the link UKWikiGuy (talk) 23:15, 30 April 2012 (UTC) I introduced a table of rankings about 2 months ago - feel free to add to it if you have access to the data. Cj1340 (talk) 16:20, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Keele Coat of Arms
I have been adding the university's full coat of arms to the page as this is an common action that can be seen on other university pages. Although Keele University seldom uses her full coat of arms, I believe it is important to include this to show the background and history of the university.

However, User:Cj1340 has constantly reverted the changes I have made and giving lots of invalid reasons to delete my changes. I have no idea why this user is so against the idea of putting the full coat of arms on the page. Previously, he has been making false statement to explain his action, as he said the full coat of arms I added is the Sneyd Family's arm, and I have explained to him on his talk page the differences between the Sneyd Family's arms and the Keele's arms. User_talk:Cj1340

After noticing User:Cj1340, my edits were still deleted by him. The reason he used to reverted my edit is he said the coat of arms image is duplicate with another picture captured the university's arms outside the library.

I urge User:Cj1340 to stop any further changes that would not benefit the page and respect the history and the visual image of the university.

Wymanb 10 Oct, 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wymanb (talk • contribs) 21:43, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Coat of arms
There seems to be some disagreement as to what is the correct coat of arms. Hopefully this link may clarify the situation. - Scribble Monkey (talk) 16:04, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The coat of arms is duplicated - it is already on the library image, the image proposed is very poor qualityCj1340 (talk) 16:31, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You've just removed the library image. Was that your intention? - Scribble Monkey (talk) 16:47, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Well spotted! - I've corrected itCj1340 (talk) 16:57, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not the only problem with this site: the previous editor thinks it's OK to use a quote from the Independent - It's not OK because it talks about Keele being well known for Medicine amongst other subjects. This is misleading since it's only very recent and the full GMC approval is only one or two years old. Could give the wrong impression to applicants, Moreover,the same editor wants to add Stoke on Trent to the location - also misleading since it's on the south-west side of Stoke and better referred to as Newcastle which is the Royal Mail's preferred address.
 * I agree that the Independent link is misleading and, as it is from 2006, it is also somewhat dated. On the other hand I see no problem in including a reference to Stoke-on-Trent. Perhaps something like


 * "Keele University is a public research campus university about 2 mi from Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire, England and 5 mi from the city of Stoke-on-Trent."?


 * Scribble Monkey (talk) 21:49, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * OK That's just about acceptable as Stoke has at least a section at the General Hospital for the med students which is on the med school pages. But let's kill the coat of arms which is not used at all


 * If the coat of arms is not used at all then it would be removed from the library and would never published on graduation certificate. Please respect the university history and the formal visual representation of the university, a coat of arms granted by the College of Arms. Wymanb (talk) 23:14, 10 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm realy sorry you're getting realy upset about this issue. If the uni is not prepared to put a decent image (probably for security reasons) on its website for whatever reason let's leave it alone. End of discussion for me. Cj1340 (talk) 23:29, 10 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The Loughborough University's arms is not clear either and could not be found on their official website. Please stop meaningless changes and endless invalid reason in changing the page. You are still missing a strong reason to explain why there should not be a coat of arms. Wymanb (talk) 11:06, 11 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The image isn't of great quality, but on balance I think it should stay. - Scribble Monkey (talk) 12:19, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Official name
In case it comes up again, its official name is UoK, not KU. ''The Royal Charter was granted to the "University of Keele" in 1962 and this is the formal and official name of the University. The term "Keele University" was adopted as the preferred term for day-today use in about 1989. '' Bromley86 (talk) 21:21, 12 August 2015 (UTC)


 * And it's important to note for clarity the standard of using the brand name (WP:COMMONNAME) over the charter name for British universities, examples being Durham University and most of the Oxbridge colleges (we say Jesus College over the full name in the charter: Jesus College in the University of Oxford of Queen Elizabeth's Foundation). Hence, "Keele University" is the correct article title. Aloneinthewild (talk) 21:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I was wondering why Oxford University is dealt with the other way (i.e. "UoO, informally OU" vs. here where we now have "KU, officially UoK")), but having looked at it, I'd guess that its commonname is not as clear as Keele's.  I, and everyone I know, call it OU, but many of the major media outlets stick with UoO.  Bromley86 (talk) 22:58, 12 August 2015 (UTC)