Talk:Kegel exercise

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Mention of Kegel muscles
430 Google hits for "Kegel muscles": which of course does not make it right. Pubococcygeus muscles is correct, but we should mention the other usage, and point out that it is non-standard.-- Karada 00:32, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * How about saying what and where these muscles are, instead of using big words that Wikipedia doesn't even have?  Also, the alleged sexual benefits should be mentioned and not left to the external links.  --Zero 06:29, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

the principle muscle that stops the flow of urine isn't the pubococcgeus but the bulbospongiosus. the muscles of the pelvic floor, iliococcygeus, pubococcygeus (including the puborectalis) and the cocygeus (ishiococcygeus) are colectively refered to as the levator ani. however different anatomists disagree on which muscles constitute the levator ani group. when one contracts the pubococcygeus one will feel the rectum tighten,this will limit the flow of urine but will not totally stop it. ejaculation in males is performed by clonic contractions of both the bulbospongiosus and the muscles of the pelvic floor (including some of the levator ani —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.175.156 (talk) 12:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Revision suggested
The wording of this article seems a bit too much like a promotional brochure ("Luckily, when these muscles get weak, you can help make them strong again."). I think it should be reworded along the lines of "the exercise is believed to..." to remove the whisper of bias. -Asriel86
 * No, not really. It's highly documented that exercising a muscle strengthens it. Of course, it won't be much since you can't add resistance, but it is an endurance exercise. Tyciol 05:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Even if it's "highly documented," there is no reason to use language like "Luckily, when..." and, "...you can help make them strong again" in a medical document. Furthermore, scientific literature generally refrains from using absolutes, because every study, or multiple studies, can be contradicted by other studies.  I would suggest language like, "studies have shown the exercise to...."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.127.143.33 (talk) 08:37, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I've Improved the Article
I think I've substantially increased the quality of the article, so I removed the cleanup tag. It could probably be filled out a little more, though--perhaps the paragraph on men and Kegel exercises especially. --The Famous Movie Director 13:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Errors?
1) In the article Pubococcygeus muscle it is stated as a fact, that "Kegel exercises [...] contribute to premature ejaculation. Some doctors advise men against doing Kegel exercises for this reason.". If this is correct, this article should carry the same information. -Saperea
 * I've actually never heard of this, all I hear is of it helping to prevent ejaculation due to control. Since the muscles stop urination, you'd assume they stop ejaculation. Tyciol 05:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia article for 'premature ejaculation' lists Kegel Exercises as a means of treating said affliction...I'd really like to know which it is! *cough*

2) Under the last heading in the article it says, that "practicing Kegel exercises during urination is not recommended, as this could lead to a urinary tract infection [citation needed]." Citation needed indeed - this seems very unlikely, as infection is caused by bacteria, which certainly isn't produced by Kegel exercises nor are they (as far as I can see)liable to be moved from other parts of the body to the urinary tract by Kegel exercises. -Saperea
 * I agree it is a stupid claim, I'll fact-cite it if it's still there. Tyciol 05:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

3) You could perhaps cause some form of involuntary urine retention that could increase chances of infecion. Still, better to find a source on that. --Ben Taylor 21:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Guide to exercise requested
A sentence or two about how to perform Kegel exercizes would be nice. -71.211.208.132
 * There are a lot of guides out there. It's actually simple, you stop the flow of urination, and mimic that for long periods of increasing intensity. Tyciol 05:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You know, Tyciol, what most people would have done to solve the lack of information on how to perform them, rather than merely posting it in the discussion area, would be to put it in the article. It should not be left in external links; that defeats the purpose of wikipedia; it's not a catalogue of links, it is an encyclopaedia.John Holmes II (talk) 02:34, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Bias?

 * Although Dr. Arnold Kegel has contemporized and popularized this practice, it is by no means new. The Taoists of ancient China developed a number of different sexual practices to strengthen and tone these same muscles for health, longevity, sexual gratification, and spiritual development. Directly akin to the Kegel exercise is the Taoist practice of the Deer Exercise. However all this is not to be taken seriously. [Emphasis mine]

Is that statement appropriate for an encyclopaedic article? If it's not to be taken "seriously", why not? Certainly the Taoists took it seriously... --Sapphire Wyvern 00:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This is a fact, Wikipedia always tries to delete Chinese achievements while crediting everything to someone of so-called "western ethnicity". I'm surprised they couldn't find a way to credited it to the ancient Greeks. BarbarianInvader5thcentury (talk) 19:40, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Peter North?
Seems like a jokester put a link to Peter North on the page. I think it should be deleted, but I'm not sure about the policies concerning editing pages, so I'll just leave it for someone else to correct.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.192.127.216 (talk) 23:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

Confirmation
"Regular Kegel exercise can also increase sexual pleasure for women and their partners.[citation needed]". Too lazy to search for references on this, i'll just take the liberty to give a bit of personal experience: a woman who is able to squeeze your member to delay your ejaculation until she's ready has a very desirable quality. I once found such a person but was young and senseless enough to let her go (For your entertainment: 'dunno, in the morning i thought she reminded me of my sister. Girl if you're reading this, believe me i have been truly sorry i never called back). I was told (much) later that through the practice of Kegel exercise a woman can enable this "trick". --Jerome Potts 22:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC) (PS Hey if this becomes known, at some point you'll see it advertised in personal ads. Wanna bet?)

Although this is old, I want to mention to other people who might write stuff like this: Wikipedia is neither a forum nor a dating site. Take your personal problems where they belong; and frankly: personal experience is absolutely irrelevant here. There is neither anybody interested nor is it of any value on any subject in an encyclopedia. --78.54.16.29 (talk) 18:37, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Better phrasing for 2nd sentence

 * "The exercises consist of the regular clenching and unclenching of the sex muscles which form part of the pelvic floor (sometimes called the "Kegel muscles")."

The pubococcygeus muscles are not just "sex muscles". They function in urination, bowel movements, and probably fine balance and who knows what else. Since I haven't had anatomy and physiology yet, I would like some suggestions on replacement words for sex e.g. groin, pelvic, urethral, vaginal, bowel, ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockshop (talk • contribs) 15:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

A way to add resistance for men
I read once in a book on tantra (or maybe just a book on sexual ideas and tips, don't remember very well the book) about these exercises. It suggested that men can do them with an erect penis, and put a towel over the penis to add resistance. Next one should try to lift the towel up with the pelvic muscle. I have tried this, and it does add resistance. I believe the statement in the text is incorrect... greets (undated)
 * OK but that resistance is not on the PC muscle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.129.199.229 (talk) 22:04, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Ben Wa?
What exactly do ben wah balls have to do with Kegels? Regards, --UnicornTapestry (talk) 11:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a blog about it. Vaginal cones should also be mentioned.--88.74.222.13 (talk) 16:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Instructions
I removed the instructions on how to preform Kegal Exersises per WP:NOTHOWTO, which states that articles "should not read like a how-to style manual of instructions, advice (legal, medical or otherwise) or suggestions, or contain how-tos" Note the last part, that articles "should not contain how-tos". The section was a step-by step how-to, and therefore violated WP:NOTHOWTO. 96.240.207.190 (talk) 03:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That refers to articles, not sections. To steal your quote, articles "Should not read like a how-to style manual of instructions", but a section dedicated to talking about, you know, the fukin title of the article, is quite appropriate. While I agree that bullet point suggestions are vastly inappropriate, it would be helpful for users(including myself, who did in fact come for instructions) who came here to learn how to perform to have the resources available. Perhaps a list of actions (voluntary or involuntary) that are triggered by using "Kegel Muscles" would help clarify how to exercise them. Such actions like stopping urinary flow, or tightening of the anus, should be mentioned as actions that use these muscles. I'll try to add back in some clarification, without listing, and we'll see how that flies. John Holmes II (talk) 02:48, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge: Kegel Male Exercise Trainer
Here it was proposed by User:189.146.2.39 (who also likes spanish webcomics, apparently) that the above new article should be merged into this one. Since they did not create a topic regarding the merge, I am doing that. What are people's thoughts? There are concerns about advertisement, but at the same time, I think having a separate article for kegel exercise device would be valuable, especially if there are many different kinds of them. It is sort of like we have different articles for resistance training and for dumbbells, I guess. The format the article is currently in looks like a brand name, so if there are competing products, it would be good to list the different manufacturers on an article describing the topic more generally. I don't know where to look for those, so until we find them, it would make sense to leave it up. KMET is sort of an ugly all capitalized first-letter words though, I much prefer lowercase letters. Tyciol (talk) 00:08, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

WITH REGARD TO PROPOSED MERGE Smkovalinsky (talk) 21:17, 27 April 2009 (UTC) I think a merge with Kegel Exercise page would not be as satisfactory as a separate KMT page, denoting its history and unique properties. I would agree that there are differentiations of the subsets of resistance trainers; excellent point-I commend your for making it. Your comments would be most welcome here:    Smkovalinsky (talk) 21:16, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The trainer is sufficiently covered in this article. Wikipedia is not a marketing tool for non-notable products. OhNo itsJamie  Talk 21:54, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

In what sense is it covered sufficiently as an invention? If Mr. Dana has no gateway to sell his product, in what way does he seek advertising from having a Wikipedia page? Is an author such as Anthony Peake advertising his theory and books in his Wikipedia page? 68.196.41.39 (talk) 23:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC) addendum I think what is bothering Mr. Dana,  is that he feels neither the need nor the desire to use Wikipedia for a covert advertising venue. He simply wants the noteworthy invention and its inception to be known, as per Wikipedia criteria. He feels he is being discriminated against, and feels forced to contact his US Patent attorney, and to involve the Broward County courts in the State of Florida, for deprivation of civil liberties. It would seem he is being treated in some manner which is punitive, and he knows not the true reasons. Has anyone bothered to go to the KMT dispute page, and read the arguments? Something seems amiss here. I am not certain how this has escalated, but I would hope some editing of a feature page could achieve a resolution. Thanks kindly. 68.196.41.39 (talk) 00:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Dana nor his product do not meet Wikipedia notability guidelines, period. OhNo itsJamie Talk 00:41, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

But Mr. Dana's invention has received commendation at a major university. It has been given a rare, pioneer creation patent. This is tantamount to a Bell patent, an American inventor's dream. He holds 2 US federal patents, and an unheard of 15 irrefutable claims. He thinks you have a hidden agenda,  Jamie. Why can you not dialogue with Mr. Dana? 68.196.41.39 (talk) 01:03, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There's nothing else to discuss. I'm not concerned about your insinuations. OhNo itsJamie Talk 01:06, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I realize this topic is dead and buried, but I feel compelled to point out that a US patent is not an endorsement of an invention or an evaluation of its benefits, quality, or other merits. The issuance of a US patent means simply that the statutory requirements - novelty, utility, non-obviousness, being a process/machine/article of manufacture/composition of matter, and providing an enabling written description and best mode therefor - have been met.  This does not mean that a patented invention is superior to other similar inventions, or that a patented inventino is even good at doing what it's supposed to be used for.  Also, well over 7.5 million patents have been issued over the past 200 years.  It therefore follows that holding a patent is nowhere near sufficient to establish notability.  -- Dachannien TalkContrib 05:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Women?
"Though most commonly used by women" - any statistics please? It's POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.132.31.212 (talk) 11:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

How are those things used?
Do i have to put them fully in and squeeze them? Or let part of them stick out and lift them with my inner muscles? Without a good description of the excercise i have no idea how that stuff really works. --92.227.125.23 (talk) 17:18, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Talk pages are only for discussing improvements to the article but you can try asking at the Wikipedia Reference desk. And if someone replies to you with a good description of the exercise you should consider expanding this article with it. -- &oelig; &trade; 01:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Question about men's sexual function
I am confused about the sentence, "There are said to be significant benefits for the problem of premature ejaculation from having more muscular control of the pelvis. It is also possible that strengthening the pelvic floor may allow some men to achieve a form of orgasm without allowing ejaculation, and thereby perhaps reach multiple "climaxes" during sexual activity." Is this suggesting that the only reason men cannot achieve multiple orgasms is because of ejaculation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenhplover (talk • contribs) 05:24, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

This of course is nonsense. Doing so just redirects the semen into the bladder, which is neither of use or harm except that the urine stops being clear. The following obviously is original research, but it's perfectly possible to achieve multiple orgasms after ejaculation. Just a matter of training. The following aren't even necessarily less intense, although of course that's hard to prevent. --46.115.16.115 (talk) 16:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Needs complete rewrite with better organizational attention to women vs. men
If these exercises help both men and women, that should be clear from the start, with clearly headlined sections as to what part of the article is in reference to women, and which to men. For example, items #3 and #4 speak of the benefits for women and men respectively, implying that the other #s apply to both. But the preceding section #2 applies only to women. It was a confusing read for me, organizationally.

Further, section #4 is woefully incomplete for men. For example, it talks about the exercises, but doesn't tell what they are. ChicagoLarry (talk) 20:38, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * the basic exercises are performed the same In both sexes, contraction of the pelvic floor. Maybe I can reword it more clearly at some point. I agree that organisation is poor... Whole article should discuss the exercises generally, then subsections for aspects related to each sex. I think the article is as it is because pelvic floor disorders are much more common in women after childbirth, and most of the research was done on women too I would imagine. tepi (talk) 01:54, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Rename page Pelvic floor exercise
The original name of kegel exercise is one type of PFME (pelvic floor muscle exercise). We need a page that discusses PFME generally, including other types of exercise using TENS machines, hypopressive exercises. There is already much discussion in this article of studies that, by definition researched PFME not kegels, which appears to involve repeated and rapid contraction of Levator ani. Most modern PFME regimens now advise holding contraction for 5-10 seconds, and the resting between contractions for 5-10 seconds. I feel this is a distinction from the originally described Kegel exercise. The new page should have sections for each type of exercise and discuss the evidence of effectiveness. I propose that PFME is the more notable and modern term than Kegel. To support this claim, I performed PubMed seraches with various key words, but found that Pelvic floor exercise was the most notable. PFME was also much more notable than "Kegel exercises" and similar variations.

23_2&#123;(SBST:SU:m.&#125;&#125; (talk) 13:32, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You need to do your search again, but using quotation marks on phrases that you believe would make a suitable title. The quoted phrase   produces many fewer hits than the words   in any order.  The second search string there will pick up sentences like "I did emergency pelvic surgery right on the floor where the patient normally exercises her dog", which is obviously irrelevant.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:45, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * oh yeah, looks like i forgot to do this. "pelvic floor exercises" (299) in quotes still gives more hits than "kegel exercises" in quotes (71). "Pelvic floor muscle exercises" also more notable (145). On pubmed anyway. lesion (talk) 02:24, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Might an alternate solution be to start new articles for TENS machines and hypopressive exercises then moving some content here that doesn't count as Kegels then making pelvic floor exercise a a disambiguation page? I'm largely ignorant on the topics. Biosthmors (talk) 23:01, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Much of the content of the kegels page currently is based on references that are not strictly speaking kegel exercises (using our definition in the intro anyway). I'm not sure how many scientific citations would be left if they were removed. I guess my point was that, any term for something that involves exercising the pelvic floor muscles might be better discussed as sections in a general article called pelvic floor exercise, which I think we can now agree is a notable enough term. Certainly I feel that as far as benefits for medicial conditions go, then these should be discusses under such a term since this is what the research most commonly uses too. Probably you could argue that Kegels exercise is a notable enough term to have its own page nested from that main page, but this might be unnecessary if the Kegel section on the larger page was comprehensive. A disambig page is another idea. I'm not really sure of the best thing to do here, but I feel the current situation: kegel exercise, pelvic floor exercise (redirects to Kegels), hypopressive exercise is poorly arranged. lesion (talk) 23:52, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Pre Kegal book on the subject
Why is Kegal always generally considered as the inventor of these exercises? I somebody else has mentioned Taoist, Yogi and Tantra practices, but these are fairly different and a lot harder to reference. This book published copyrighted in 1932 (for over 20 years earlier) gives a very clear and referencable example though!

http://wellcomelibrary.org/player/b20442324#?asi=0&ai=0 https://archive.org/details/b20442324 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.185.161.131 (talk) 13:35, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * would this be a reliable source since it is so outdated and usually it’s within 5 years from current date? Very informative though haha Foley1115 (talk) 20:49, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

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Contraindications of Kegel exercise
Kegel exercise is akin to a hatha yoga bandha (contraction) called Mula Bandha. Some contraindications of mula bandha are hypertension and glaucoma. Could this also apply to Kegel exercises?—AnnaBruta (talk) 17:56, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Foundations 2 2019, Group 5a goals
Mlomanto (talk) 21:50, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Clarify health effects of Kegel exercises in men vs women (i.e. specific muscles strengthened, benefits, etc.).
 * Elaborate on devices and how to perform some Kegel exercises.
 * Okay, this is definitely a case where two groups ended up on the same article. I suggest working on your other articles until further updates. Thanks. Health policy (talk) 04:29, 31 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Mlomanto, your class needs to stick to WP:MEDRS-compliant sourcing for the medical/health material. Read WP:MEDRS for what I mean. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:37, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Group 4c Foundations 2
Update anatomy information (like which muscles used), how to do the exercises (should devices be used?), and organize information between men and women kegel exercises. Foley1115 (talk) 22:17, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, this is definitely a case where two groups ended up on the same article. I suggest working on your other articles until further updates. Thanks. Health policy (talk) 04:30, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Peer Review
 * Upon review, I find that the group’s edits substantially improve the article. By introducing new sections and renaming others, the article's contents and flow are now better. Yes, the author did achieve their goals of differentiation between male and female information. The edits have been phrased in a neutral tone. The 3 sources cited in the edits are valid secondary sources, I did fix the citation link for one source (American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV)). The formatting is consistent with Wikipedia’s manual of style. Plagiarism is not evident. Jdinger123 (talk) 20:52, 5 August 2019 (UTC) Arcmelodia (talk) 21:52, 5 August 2019 (UTC)


 * This group substantially improved this article by adding significant information differences between men and women keel exercises, which also aligned with their goals Niamh.ogrady (talk) 21:58, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

A contradition in the article?
Stumbled in on this after talking to someone who had a prostate removed. I notice that the main body of the text claims that kegel exercises improve a man's stamina and his ability to gyrate his penis on command, and they improve a woman's ability to voluntarily contract her vaginal muscles. Both of which seem to be "increasing sexual performance".

But then the end of the article says that the notion that this article improves sexual performance is a pseudoscientific myth. Is that not a bit of a wierd contradiction?2A02:C7C:2ED1:D300:3CC0:E2C4:EB0F:8440 (talk) 19:01, 2 November 2022 (UTC)