Talk:Keith Howard

Image
Could someone upload a pic of Keith for this page? User: Drake Clawfang
 * Asking for help's illegal... in America! No, seriously, I uploaded one. Danny Lilithborne 03:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Clean up
After the Duel Kingdom section, this article becomes inconsistent in terms and phrases, eg. Dark Yugi but Yami Bakura, Jonouchi in the Duelist Kingdom Section but Joey Wheeler with Jonouchi in brackets in the following section.

Could someone please clean up the inconsistencies? ...in America! 12:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There are no inconsistencies, this is the naming convention used for the Yugioh pages - English anime names for anime-exclusive events, English manga names for anime and manga events, and Japanese names for Japanese references. Drake Clawfang 16:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * To explain further, Dark Yugi and Dark Bakura are used in the Jap version, and Yami Bakura and Yami Yugi for the english. Since the first season refers to the English manga, Jonouchi is used, and since the section section is anime-exclusive, it uses Joey. Drake Clawfang 16:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, fair enough if that's what's already been decided... still, it seems rather unencyclopedic ... Also, Dark being used in Japan but Yami being used in English is a little odd as yami(闇) means dark, unless you mean the official romanisation? in America! 08:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Would it be too much to ask if you could separate his life story to manga, anime and, I dunno, English anime? It's very confusing to read how he did this in the anime, but in the manga it went like this, but then again in the English version it was a bit different, AND then it really went like this and this happened... I would do it myself but I'm not that informative about Keith, so I would probably just mess it up good. Otherwise the article was very informative, thanks! Rebecca85 (talk) 10:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Protection?
Anyone else think this article is badly in need of protection? Looking at the history, it looks like 90% of the edits are vandalism. --The last sheikah (talk) 23:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Vandalism is not frequent enough to warrant semi-protection. They'll just tell us to keep reverting...in America! hbdragon88 (talk) 23:11, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Potential problems
The Yugioh Abridged series says that Bandit Keith's middle name is "Steve" and to check his wikipedia entry for it. I predict an edit war coming along70.17.192.182 (talk) 18:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * My suggestion would be that someone add a small "Yugioh Abridged" section to some of these character profiles. That way there can be two or three sentences about their characters in that, and I think it would reduce vandalism. Zephyrus11 (talk) 20:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

agreed

Agreed here too. That's why I actually came to check this page and see if it was. Is it true he's also really Canadian?

...Is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.243.182 (talk) 23:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Abridged Series is still not notable by Wikipedia standards. The fact that idiots think they're funny doesn't mean we should kowtow to their (low) standards. JuJube (talk) 00:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't diss the Abridged Series.I think its hilarious.I agree With All of Them.WWEFAN99 (talk) 23:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not dissing the series, I'm dissing people who think that it's funny is a good reason to vandalize Wikipedia. JuJube (talk) 03:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I added a YuGiOh the Abridged Series section to Keith's page to see what would happen...In America! EHeroFlareNeos (talk) 15:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I only added the section to test the waters. If there is a problem, please let me know right away on my talk page. EHeroFlareNeos (talk) 15:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Abridged series section
I know there was a fight above but I still think the article needs it because online the 'In America' has become greatly associated with the character, and as of such, it's important enough for a Trivia section, if one is created. --67.162.31.148 (talk) 00:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's not. JuJube (talk) 07:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I have an idea, why don't you just create a seperate article with bandit keith's middle name as Steve? That way, people won't have to try to vandalize this one EHeroFlareNeos (talk) 06:39, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * People have been vandalziing this article long before LK called him "Steve". They've been adding "in America" to nearly every sentence ever since episode 10 was released (sometimes they also throw in "French" but this is far less common). hbdragon88 (talk) 07:23, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Because it's a stupid idea? JuJube (talk) 07:24, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * JuJube, please. This user is new and he/she doesn't understand that our policies do not currently allow any mention of The Abridged Series.  New users believe that Wikipedia is a respository for a lot of information, but that isn't the case; "significant media coverage" is pretty much the criteria for inclusion, which TAS does not meet. hbdragon88 (talk) 07:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess. The idea that we should kowtow to vandals because they are persistent makes me annoyed, though.  Although it's true that there's the impression that Wikipedia is a repository for all kinds of information, I thought the idea that it was an encyclopedia was first and foremost.  Would we add a "George W. Bush (vandalize this page)" article to Wikipedia just because it gets vandalized a lot?  I know this is a fictional character, but please. JuJube (talk) 09:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * In regards to mentioning the Abridged Series in the article, I slightly disagree. It's stated quite clearly in the notability guidelines that notabiliy does not regulate contents of an article, just the subject.  So mentioning the Abridged Series in relation to Keith wouldn't violate any guidelines as far as I can see.  The only problem I see with the idea is that Keith isn't really represented in many forms other than the real series and the abridged series.  In other words, I don't think there is enough relevant information for a seperate section on the article for the abridged series. In addition, I can't think of any other section where putting abridged series information would be suitable at this time. However, if the format of the article is revised, or additional cultural references make a "pop" section worth having sometime in the future, I don't see any reason to exclude mention of Keith in relation to the abridged series. Soul Slayer (talk) 18:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The subject of this article is the "real" Keith Howard, that is to say, the canon Keith Howard that Kazuki Takahashi and Studio Gallop told stories about, not about fan versions. Letting the abridged version in would open the door to all sorts of ridiculousness such as telling about all the webcomics that have compared Orochimaru to Michael Jackson et al. I'm firmly against any mention of the abridged series in Wikipedia until it meets the notability criteria.  In the meantime, there is the Yu-Gi-Oh Wikia. JuJube (talk) 04:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Ive got an Idea, How about a "Yugioh the abridged series section is made and all information based on that can be put there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calcetinez (talk • contribs) 23:13, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Asked and answered... no. Nothing on the Abridged Series until reliable sources can affirm it. JuJube (talk) 01:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * neither does this article. It should probably be merged to a list of major characters just like they suggested in the Pokémon articles  Antonio Lopez  (talk) 01:38, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, good luck with that. The other GX characters were supposed to be merged into one article.  I offered to head up the work in doing so but got no support. JuJube (talk) 01:42, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * True, It would be a lot of hard work trying to merge all of these characters, plus with everyone reverting the redirects because they don't agree on the merged list. Antonio Lopez  (talk) 01:54, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Would we add a "George W. Bush (vandalize this page)" article to Wikipedia just because it gets vandalized a lot? - No, but we might acknowledge the existence of a widely used charicature of Bush that has had a significant impact on branches of popular culture.

Letting the abridged version in would open the door to all sorts of ridiculousness such as telling about all the webcomics that have compared Orochimaru to Michael Jackson et al. - Not acknowledging the existence of it (apparently because Wikipedia's elitist criteria for source material means that if a corporation isn't directly profiting from it it's useless [regardless of how large an active community is peer reviewing the material, of course], yet if some yahoo decides to hire an editorial team suddenly their opinions are important) is a mandate to wage a crusade against half the entries on List_of_Internet_phenomena.

Nothing on the Abridged Series until reliable sources can affirm it. - Hello, the original source material is available to view 24/7 online, and this article could do with some sources.

An us-and-them mindset that compels one to automatically adopt a hostile contrarian position to anything an Abridged fan has to suggest just because some of them find vandalism amusing is not going to stop the vandalism; if anything it's going to antagonise it when entirely reasonable non-vandalising additions are decreed to be beneath wikipedia's notoriously selectively-applied remit. Face facts, people hear others end sentences with ...in America!, and wikipedia is first port of reference for millions. It's in popular culture, and it's more constructive to acknowledge it than to stubbornly tar it with the vandal brush. --Lindsay40k (talk) 03:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I'm reading the List of Internet phenomena, and all of them cite reliable, third-party sources, like Snopes, New York Times, Wired, etc. If you see something that's amiss, knock the entry out.  Only a couple of entries have no citations at all; the rest are all reliable.  On the other hand, the Abridged Series has not received such mention in news media.  If it has, provide a link, and I will shut up at least (I'm sure JuJube will as well but I can't speak for him).  Until then, JuJube, I, and several others will be reverting all mentions of Canada, in America, and Steve. hbdragon88 (talk) 04:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you have a link of an article that testifies to TAS' cultural influence, I will shut up post haste. Until then, no.  Notice how the List of Internet phenomena article has indeed been the subject of extreme scrutiny, and many people have left Wikipedia because they believe the article as it is now is useless compared to the long, cancerous list it was before where things were accepted just because "people quoted them a lot".  People need to get over the idea that Wikipedia is a repository for any useless crap that some guys mentioned once.  It's an encyclopedia first and foremost and should be treated as such. JuJube (talk) 06:06, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Please consider the fact that this article does not "cite reliable, third-party sources" for ANYTHING. If you want that to be the standard for this article, fine, as long as it's not a double standard. 12.217.217.104 (talk) 06:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, since this article and many other YGO character articles are the subject of an ongoing project to merge, you, as expected, have no point. JuJube (talk) 07:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Please take a moment to read the rules of conduct at the top of this page. 12.217.217.104 (talk) 22:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm familiar with them, thank you very much. JuJube (talk) 12:15, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Eh, JuJube, it was okay to say that the other articles are subject to merging, but "as expected, you have no point" was a gross assumption of bad faith. Unless you've been around, you wouldn't know that the YGO articles are in chaos, since pure Abridged fans who have not seen the real show would have no reason to check out the GX articles (AFAIK, the only ones that have been AFD'd). hbdragon88 (talk) 18:55, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sure this article was part of a bundled AfD where the result was "Merge" recently. In any case, how can I see this as anything but yet another attempt to cite WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS to try to embarass Wikipedia editors into getting their Internet series added? JuJube (talk) 19:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I know before I post it that someones gonna have a problem with this but why dont we just LEAVE this page alone. Let them have their petty jokes and pitiful comodies. Is an article about a Japanese Manga Series charactor (that really isnt in the show that much form that matter)really worth fighting for? I say "No" Let them have this page. You may begin badgering me.....now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.153.82.220 (talk) 22:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Some articles actually mention YGOTAS..... EHeroFlareNeos (talk) 01:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for tipping me off, I just burned the article and removed a reference from Mary Sue. Do not know if we should touch April Fools Day 2008 or not. hbdragon88 (talk) 05:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser
Due to the daily addition of the specious middle name reference, I've requested a Checkuser to see if the accounts are related. If they are, their IPs are likely to be blocked. Stifle (talk) 14:20, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Result is unrelated. Stifle (talk) 20:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a website for YGO:TAS, but this article has had a long history of vandalism influened by YGO:TAS before that site came up (which came up due to YouTube removing all the videos). This is most notable in long-running "in America," since the release of episode 11 (likely October 2006 or earlier).  "Canada" was less sproadic.  But "Steve" is just out of control. hbdragon88 (talk) 21:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Confirmed, JuJube uploaded a picture of Keith Howard with the "asking for help's illegal!" on 3 October 2006. hbdragon88 (talk) 21:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. This was before the "in America" vandalism became common. JuJube (talk) 01:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protection
This page has been semi-protected until the start of August. There is a clear page comment saying not to include this Steve nonsense and that users will be blocked so if any autoconfirmed user adds it then feel free to block them or list them at WP:AIV without warning. Stifle (talk) 09:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)