Talk:Keith Jarrett/Archive 1

Comment
keith jarrett changed my life and my vision of music based on instant. he changed my vision of piano i'm pianist too — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.100.252.109 (talk) 18:42, 16 November 2004 (UTC)


 * this is a page not for fan discussion, sorry :-). if there no objections i will remove this.  Julius.kusuma 23:57, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

hahaha ;) nice. the guy confused the term "discussion". It's good to hear though to pianist saying that. He (and others) can check keithjarrett.org for scores.

the article could be better, for sure lacks his IMAGE. I search the net, found many, not sure about copyrights though. I saw the technic of Brad Mehldau's Article (site taken from his site), but I cannot find in an official site a Jarrett's Image. ECM's web site sucks big time on this.

Should the "La Scala" link to the theatre when the text is really referencing the album? Jtjones 02:59, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rearrangement
I've added some things this morning, and I've just moved chunks of the article around (separating the solo concerts from the two seventies quartets). I don't think the "Recent years" section is really necessary - I know the CFS-enforced retirement seemed like a big thing at the time and just after he returned, but looking at his career as a whole it's a minor blip, and Jarrett has made some of his strongest recordings since then, so it's probably best to add to the individual sections rather than having a "post-CFS" section. It needs mentioning, though, and I can't quite see where it should go. The "Other works" section really needs hacking into some sort of coherent shape, I don't know enough about his classical recordings to do those justice. --Andrew Norman 08:02, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

The biography in the program for the recent KJ Carnegie Hall concert plagiarized this article.

I don't understand this sentence:

"Davis invited Jarrett to join his group to play electric organ and (after Chick Corea left the group) electric piano, which he did for about a year, his respect for Davis and wish to work again with DeJohnette overcoming his distaste for amplified music and electric instruments."

--Erikyorke 16:11, 23 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I've rewritten that paragraph. Julius.kusuma 19:20, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Expansion
I've added detail throughout, expanded the album and musician lists and converted them to bullets, adding comments where appropriate. I also added some material on his work as a composer. Pretty much all of the albums should be listed here now, obviating the question of which are noteworthy. I'd like to see a bit more detail on the time with Davis, and a list of all the Blakey and Charles Lloyd albums on which Jarrett appears, as well as any other sideman dates. Also, I've never seen Jarrett perform classical works other than his own. Some eyewitness accounts would be nice. Does he play it completely straight? Does he wear the penguin suit?

Craigz 11:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Dewey Redman's passing and memorial broadcast
WKCR-FM will have a memorial broadcast on Labor Day, September 4, 2006 for Jarrett's saxophone collaborator, Dewey Redman. Dogru144 17:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

High school
I am trying to update high school affiliations for Allentown people. Does anyone know where he went to high school? PAWiki 18:07, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Eyes of the Heart
Is there any reason why this album is included as one of the American group's "noteworthy" albums? I thought the near-consensus was that it's one of their worst recordings.

Eyes of the heart is one of my favorites. But anyway, as this a matter of personal taste, I suggest there should be no subjective judgement at all in this article (applies to all Wikipedia articles, of course). --Georg Scholz 16:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Criticism of Wynton Marsalis
Someone add in Keith's criticism of Wynton Marsalis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.126.242.253 (talk) 10:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Discography
Where is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shoplifter (talk • contribs) 21:18, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Ruta & Daitya
It's not of utmost importance, but the way the description of it reads right now is not 100% accurate, in that it was not recorded "as" an ECM release. It was recorded a few months prior to the Facing You date. Jarrett offered the tapes to Eicher, who then put them out subsequently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.138.230.41 (talk) 15:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: leaving the Charles Lloyd quartet
Why was the line about Jarrett's reason for leaving the Lloyd quartet removed. I like most of the work you've been doing here. But this was referenced, and its removal was unexplained. Jazz.com says: "Jarrett left Lloyd in 1969, after a disagreement over money. According to Jarrett, he discovered Lloyd paid his sidemen only a fraction of what the bandleader kept for himself."--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 18:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry--the editing is a work in progress (and I'm brand-new to Wikipedia, so bear with me). I've taken another stab at revising, per Ian Carr's biography, which seems more authoritative than Jazz.com. There is a lengthy discussion of what happened in the Lloyd quartet on pages 36-39 of Carr. According to Carr, Lloyd was taking the vast majority of the money and paying his sidemen a pittance. But this was only part of the problem. Then DeJohnette and Jarrett approached Lloyd and told him his playing was "flat" and "debauched"; Lloyd replied that "maybe I want play debauched." Jack and Keith said this was "the beginning of the end of the band." DeJohnette left first, and apparently Jarrett stuck around (the text is unclear on this point; Carr's book needed an editor)--and then he found out Lloyd was gigging with a new quartet. So it seems fair to say that the group broke up because of differences over both money and artistry. What do you think? RedActor61 (talk) 07:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you're right, the Carr biography seems more authoritative, and I hope you include the info.Again, nice work! Hope you don't mind if I peek over your shoulder once in a while...Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 18:55, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

It's great to have another pair of eyes looking at this thing. As you can tell, it needs a lot of work, but I figure if I chip away at a section at a time I might be able to help make the overall article more solid, and at least to clean out the bad/undocumented stuff (which is rampant). I'm rereading Carr so that I have my facts straight--not that Carr is the last word. No single source is. And I'm leery of using one source so much. This is where it helps to have other people with access to different sources chiming in. Feel free to holler at me if you see a change I've made that doesn't work, for whatever reason. I appreciate it. RedActor61 (talk) 20:32, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Standards Trio
In editing this article I've noticed that the discography in the Standards Trio section provides more detail than the other discographies do. This section includes not just the year (presumably the release year), but the recording month and year and the release year of each album. It would be more consistent if the article handled this the same way throughout. I don't have access to the extra information for the discographies in the other sections, so I can't add it. Therefore I propose deleting the extra information in the Standards Trio discography, for consistency throughout the article. Anyone have any objections or alternative suggestions? If someone can point me to a source for this information, I'd be happy to add it to the other discographies. RedActor61 (talk) 21:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice catch. I don't mind deleting the month to keep consistent, but I do like the specification of live versus studio recordings. As far as the recording year versus release year, I think that's also valuable. What about you?--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 21:46, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm still concerned about the issue of consistency within the article. I think it makes sense to list both recording and release dates only if they vary considerably (in the case of Personal Mountains, for example, released ten years after it was recorded, after Jarrett had long since moved on in his career; or even the Miles tribute, Bye Bye Blackbird, released two years after it was recorded). Most albums are not released the same date they are recorded, for obvious reasons, and in most cases the difference wouldn't seem to matter much. I'll check some other sources to see how they handle discographic information. One issue that comes up again and again in Wikipedia articles is how much detail to provide. It's an ongoing struggle to find the right balance, and it's especially difficult in a format like Wikipedia where anyone can add something at any time (which can also be helpful in other ways, of course). RedActor61 (talk) 23:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was my concern, for the records released significantly later. If you are keeping it in mind to maintain that info, I think you are doing fine. Carry on.--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 00:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Gnu High
The Album "Gnu High" is not mentioned in the main article. This was a collaboration with Kenny Wheeler, Dave Holland, and Jack De Johnette. All compositions were Kenny Wheeler's. I think it's one of the most important collaborations in which Keith Jarrett participated. Even though he is not the headline musician (Kenny Wheeler is), he is at least an equal contributor in improvisation. Also, a lot of the playing is, or seems, composed and arranged beautifully. An example is the ending of Heyoke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nardis miles (talk • contribs) 22:12, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Victory Day
is it actually relevant that Jarrett was born on 'Victory Day'? I could understand the inclusion of this fact maybe if he was European, but as he's American would this day have much significance to him or his life? quercus robur 10:43, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It is relevant, as a coincidence, to mention this fact, since the European/American theme tuns through Jarrett's career in a number of ways. It would not be if it was in the summary, rather than at the start of the main body of the article. Philip Cross 19:43, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I feel that's a highly symbolic fact. I agree that it underlines the Euro/American crossover aspect of Jarrett's work, so it has a place in an extended treatment of his career. This crossopver thing also goes into his family background: though Keith is often seen as a "black" artist, he is in fact half white (I guess the word "mulatto" reeks too much of the slave age for some to use it?) Jarrett's mother Irma is/was of Norwegian/German descent while his father's black, so (like Chick Corea or Halle Berry) he is in fact just as much white as black. I'm not adding this to the article now however because it can be touchy to some and it needs a good, concise formulation.Strausszek 15:18, August 20, 2006 (CET)
 * Where is your authority / reference on hie supposed Black/German/Norwegian ethnic heritage?? Dubious claims ruin wikipedia's reputation. Dogru144 23:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The VE Day sentence jumped out at me as clunky and out of place when I first read the article. It's not obviously relevant, the above arguments notwithstanding. If these arguments for inclusion of VE Day as part of some sort of ethnic symbology or as a metaphor for his music are so important, they should be included in the article. As it stands now, the article simply appears to begin with a bizarre non-sequitur. I've edited this out.Thefellswooper 16:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Jarrett isn't black at all. In this interview on Fresh Air w/ Terry Gross ( http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4632979) he talks about being white, but having people constantly assume he was black. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BryanPHH (talk • contribs) 05:57, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Jarrett's ethnicity
The first paragraph saids he is of hungarian and irish descent. Any source on that? AKoan 15:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

--79.9.28.206 (talk) 08:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why the hell is it almost impossible to find any reliable info on this man's enthnicity? Parents? WTF? The source on this is silly.

Ian Carr, on page 1 of his biography of Jarrett, says his ethnic heritage on his father's side is unclear but definitely Hungarian and Austrian-Hungarian on his mother's side. RedActor61 (talk) 07:01, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I have found an interview where he acknowledges the common misconception about his ethnicity, that he is of african american ancestry. if ornette coleman thought he must be black, its a sweet and notable comment, which i added. Without this, the article left unresolved this matter, which felt like POV, like we didnt want to bring up his appearance.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:39, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * WHAT'S HE LOOK LIKE?!


 * lol. all this talk about whether he looks black - how about a PORTRAIT PHOTO somewhere?


 * and i agree with others here; the discussion needs a conclusion. so if he's NOT african-american, what is he?  it should be in the article, not on the talk page.


 * i left the article thinking "must be hispanic then". 66.105.218.30 (talk) 11:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Ancestor detail
Jarrett's grandmother is told to be of slovenian decent, born in Apače. (this might not be very interesting for an article, but perhaps the data can stay here). Ziga (talk) 21:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Citation needed please.-- GoP T C N 11:17, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Expelled from Berklee?
There's an assertion in the Berklee College of Music article that Jarrett was kicked out of Berklee for "plucking piano strings". Sounds possible, I suppose, but I was curious enough to Google a bit for proof with no luck. Can anyone substantiate this? --Ds13 20:02, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I think you really need to be asking whoever put that assertion into the Berklee article. Unfortunately it was an anonymous edit.  I'm about to remove the claim.  --  ajn (talk) 22:19, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It's well known that Jarrett left Berklee "early" -- so I'm not sure if that makes him an alumnus at all as far as that list goes. At any rate, this reference and this one do refer to him being kicked out and/or leaving and the second one claims the piano strings story was Jarrett's own explanation. I was hoping someone here who has researched Jarrett more would have run across references as to why/how he left the school. --Ds13 00:05, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

The Ian Carr Biography on Keith Jarrett (Keith Jarrett - The Man and his Music) has Keith explaining in his own words what happened at Berklee:

"The administrator became worried Keith was starting to collect drop-outs* and began looking for a pretext to get rid of him. This came when Jarrett was having a session with someone in the school practice rooms, and he played a few things on the strings of the piano. (Robert) Share came bursting through the door, shouting, 'Out! Out!' Jarrett went..." Page 19 ch 'From Allentown to Berklee and Boston'


 * This refers to the Berklee College drop-outs Jarrett was playing gigs with at the time

William Rodway

I seriously doubt that Berklee would justify kicking out a student for plucking the piano strings or playing gigs with dropouts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.3.69.196 (talk) 19:09, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, as someone who did a stint at Berklee I find it hard to believe too. But it was 1963, and it seems (according to Carr's book, page 19) that Jarrett had already rubbed this particular administrator the wrong way by reading paperbacks during his classes on chord progressions (the guy was apparently not a great teacher) and by bringing in original chord changes to the class that the administrator really didn't like (so the guy was pretty conservative musically, which of course Jarrett would have hated). It's quite typical for musicians to stay at Berklee only a short time and then get picked up by established players looking for sidemen. (Berklee calls all of them alumni, no matter how short their stay, because it's great public relations.) It's very possible that Jarrett wasn't too interested in sticking around Berklee anyway. To say he was "expelled" is probably an exaggeration. But it's more dramatic sounding and makes for a better story, right? (I do remember a kid getting kicked out of Berklee back in 1981, but that was because he set off fire alarms on Halloween and then assaulted a Boston firefighter when the fire truck showed up. Nice guy, huh...) RedActor61 (talk) 21:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I heard about that incident. Last name, Actor61. First name, Red. Whoops! ;-) --Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 22:32, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I have no connection with Berklee but it sounds ridiculous to me too. Why can't the article just say "dropped out" until someone finds otherwise?  As currently written, it's just odd -- "did a year at Berklee then moved to NY" sounds like some exchange program or internship or something under Berklee's auspices.


 * Worse yet, what's with "moved to Boston where he attended Berklee"? He came to Boston FOR Berklee, right?  Who says "moved to..." when they head to a college?


 * How about plain ole "attended Berklee in Boston"?


 * Was this section written by a non-native speaker? 66.105.218.30 (talk) 11:22, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Lemon Face
He makes EXTREMELY weird faces when performing. I think this should be added to the sentences about the wrything and gyrating - it's not all about "motion" per se.

Does he have tourettes or something? Does he act like this is interviews/normal conversation, or only while performing? 66.105.218.30 (talk) 11:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Perugia "Incident"
On July 10, 2007, Keith Jarrett began a concert in Perugia, Italy with the following speech (which can be seen here):

"I do not speak Italian, so someone who speaks English can tell all these assholes with cameras to turn them fucking off right now. Right now! No more photographs, including that red light right there. If we see any more lights, I reserve the right - and I think the privilege is yours to hear us - But I reserve the right, and Jack and Gary reserve the right to stop playing and leave the goddamn city." Jarrett played two sets but, after seeing a small number of flashes from the audience before he had sat down at the piano, told an audience that was giving him a standing ovation that he would not be playing an encore. In response, the Umbria Jazz Festival announced it would never invite him again.

I realize that the fact I added the video to the article makes this an interesting point (since one can actually see Mr. Jarrett's "address"), but in the context of his career this is not a major event. I've seen similar speeches (though not quite as vindictive) at solo concerts, so this is not a completely unique event. It is my belief that this section should be deleted approximately a month after the incident. Anyone else agree?
 * I think it serves as an example of why he has been subject to criticism for his public behavior. If you want to remove it from where it currently is the best thing to do would be to move it to the Idiosyncrasies section. superunknown373 August 27 2007 17:23 GMT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Superunknown373 (talk • contribs) 16:24, August 28, 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that this should be removed; we could add eventually a phrase in 'Idiosyncrasies' mentioning the incident and its consequence. 91.92.179.156 09:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Did it; the text is here at the beginning of this section.91.92.179.156 21:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Also. Someone who has the book, please make a quote in the text and remove the nagging tag about no sources.91.92.179.156 21:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Nobody seems to want to mention that Jarrett sometimes got as good as he gave to audiences. It seemed to me that sometimes Jarrett had to grope around waiting for the muse to provide him with inspiration and what he played while he waited could sound distinctly uninspired. I was at a Jarrett concert in Toronto in the early seventies and was almost dozing off but was startled when some guy just behind me a few rows leaped to his feet in the middle of the piece and started blasting Jarrett for serving up a dull potpourri of classical favourites instead of what people had come to hear. Jarrett stopped playing and looked a little shaken but finally continued without responding. Yes, I know, this isn't really discussion but if anyone has further examples of this it might add another interesting dimension to the article.

--67.49.245.122 (talk) 23:42, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Big problems: citations/verification
This article has a multitude of problems with references, important facts which are unverified, quotations with no inline citation, etc., etc. An editor tagged a number of issues with "Citation needed" 2½ years ago, however it appears very little has been done to fix the problems. Every article needs to conform to WP:VER, but when a musician has the standing of Keith Jarrett, it is even more important. It would be a great pity to have to start removing content to bring this article into line. With a big effort on cleaning it up, it could be really great!  CaesarsPalaceDude  (talk) 20:25, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It needs a lot more than improved sourcing. There's no need to remove content unless it is contentious; see Biographies of living persons. I've added one easy source. Things to look out for: editors who think that "In the liner notes to..." counts as a full reference (it's probably there, but someone else then needs to check and fill in the details); and editors who put only one citation at the end of a paragraph to cover the entire paragraph (again, someone else then has to check and no-one except the person who added information to the paragraph knows if it is in that source; however, lots of editors approve of this style). Please join in the effort... EddieHugh (talk) 20:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

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Which Emmaus?
The text "a high school girlfriend from Emmaus with whom..." had Emmaus which is wrong. 86.132.216.109 (talk) 16:26, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Appropriate link found (it's this Emmaus High School) and put in. 86.132.216.109 (talk) 16:29, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

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