Talk:Keith Miller/GA1

GA Review
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I'll be reviewing this article shortly (500+ citations! Wow.) Ealdgyth - Talk 16:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for criteria)

Specific concerns
 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * Really only a few bobbles that must be fixed for GA, but needs a good trim for FAC
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * sometimes a bit too much detail, suggest a good trim
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * repeat use of one pic, suggest staggering the pics left and right
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * repeat use of one pic, suggest staggering the pics left and right
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * You have duplicate pics. the Comptom Miller pic is identical and used twice.
 * Suggest moving some of the pictures to the left side to avoid the feeling of a long column of pics on the right.
 * Might also suggest trimming a few pics, to better make sure that the ones used have impact. Right now there are so many pictures that they kinda run together, losing impact.
 * Lead: You need to say who you are quoting with "He "was more than a cricketer ... he embodied the idea that there was more to life than cricket"."
 * Okay, it's 14,000 words. If (as I assume) you're headed to FAC, you'll probably need to trim trim trim trim. I'll try to point out where you can trim some as I go.
 * Early life: Suggest some trim here, as you have an entire article on his early life.
 * Suggested trim: "Born in the western Melbourne suburb of Sunshine, Miller was the youngest of four children born to Leslie and Edith Miller." You also mention later that the "three Miller boys" but that's the first mention of the fact that there were three boys.
 * Suggested trim: "At the age of seven, Miller's family moved to Elsternwick, (add)another(/add) a more central suburb of Melbourne."
 * Suggested trim: "As a child, Miller was small for his age, which forced him to develop his technique rather than rely on power, something that held him in good stead for the future ."
 * Suggested trim: "In 1934, Miller failed all of his subjects, scoring zero in his final exam for Woodfull's geometry class, and was forced to repeat the year."
 * Suggested trim: Rewrite "Keith Truscott, Miller's school cricket captain took him to a trial with local club side St Kilda at the start of the 1934–35 season, but Miller could not find a place in any of its five teams." to "Keith Truscott, Melborne High School's cricket captain, tried to find him a place with the local club St Kilda, but could not place him." or something similar.
 * Suggested trim: "In March 1936, Miller played for South Melbourne against Carlton, captained by Woodfull. Miller came to the crease at 6/32.[28] He guided his team to 141, putting on a stand of 65 with the last man and finishing with 61.[29][30] (add) His performance was good enough that the The crowd gave Miller a standing ovation, and newspapers him compared him to Ponsford and Alan Kippax."
 * War service: Again, trim of details. You have a sub-article, get the details in that article and leave the broad brush stuff for this article.
 * I don't understand what this sentence is getting at: "Miller came second in St Kilda's best and fairest for the season." clarify?
 * You have a "specify" tag in the second paragraph of war service.
 * Suggested trim: Rewrite "He trained at No. 4 Initial Training School, Victor Harbour in South Australia,[66][67] and gained his wings in late 1942." to "He entered training and gained his wings in late 1942."
 * Suggested trim: "He played only one match during the 1942 football season, while posted in South Australia. "
 * Suggested rewrite "In March, he was deployed to Bournemouth, in England, where he continued his training." to "In March, he deployed to Bournemouth, England for more training."
 * Suggested trim: Cut this sentence "Miller top-scored in the first innings with 45 and added 21 not out, with two sixes, in the second innings." Too much detail for a summary paragraph.
 * Suggested rewrite: "He went on to play for Dominions against Warner's XI in August, scoring 32 and two.[82] The match marked the first meeting between Miller and his good friend, England batsman Denis Compton and his bowling began to attract media attention." to "He also played for Dominions in August, where he first met the English batsman Denis Compton. His play also began to attract media attention."
 * Suggest cutting "In the final match of the season at Lord's between the RAAF and the Royal Air Force, Miller took 3/23 and scored 91." Unneeded detail.
 * Suggest cutting all but the "In 1944, Miller was again selected for the RAAF team." in the seventh paragraph of war service, and combine that one sentence with the next paragraph.
 * One big concern is that there is a LOT of detail on the individual scores in individual games. This is a summary article, it would be best if some of this detail was cut back, especially when there is a sub-article. The Victory tests section is very "he batted this, he scored that..." heavy and it makes the prose read heavy. I could continue to point out sections that could be trimmed, but I think you get the idea. There is a lot of detail about the victory tests that would make more sense in the actual article on them (which, I might add, is pretty poor).
 * And of course, it's jargon heavy too. Cutting some of the detail on the various games would go a long way towards cutting out the jargon level.
 * 1953 Ashes ... "He was embroiled in further controversy when one of his books criticised his captain Hassett as being too cautious." Books? He was writing books? This is the first mention of that (I think)
 * West Indies tour: "... implying a punch-up."? I assume punch-up is Australian for fight? Suggest not using a slang term.
 * Later life "After retirement, Miller remained in the public eye, augmented by persistent..." you say in the paragraph before "It was the last Test of his career, as his knee injury deteriorated to the point that he could not play in the three Tests against India." but never actually say he retired. Suggest make it explicit.
 * Later life: "...owned by the millionaire racing identity..." Huh?
 * third paragraph of later life the quote starting "Some grieved.. doesn't have an end quote mark
 * Playing style section: A number of very short paragraphs gives this section a very choppy feel. Suggest combining some.
 * Playing style: this quote in the eighth paragraph needs a citation ""... one a roundhead of massive influence, the other a cavalier and maverick".
 * Most of the above is more aimed at FAC, but I highly suggest you do some trimming before bringing it to FAC. There are a few bobbles that need clarification and I'll be happy to pass it GAN, but it probaby needs a good PR and copyedit before FAC.
 * I've put the article on hold for seven days to allow folks to address the issues I've brought up. Feel free to contact me on my talk page, or here with any concerns, and let me know one of those places when the issues have been addressed. If I may suggest that you strike out, check mark, or otherwise mark the items I've detailed, that will make it possible for me to see what's been addressed, and you can keep track of what's been done and what still needs to be worked on. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree it needs trimming. I'm focussing on working my way through the whole thing, copyediting, before addressing your concerns, before seeing what can be chopped off for daughter articles perhaps. --Dweller (talk) 14:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've fixed everything apart from the trims. Need to discuss that with the cricket crew.  YellowMonkey  ( click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model! ) 08:10, 16 March 2009 (UTC)