Talk:Keith Raniere/Archive 3

The "NXIVM Nine"
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisrus (talk • contribs) 04:34, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Sources on the Nine
| http://web.timesunion.com/pdf/NXIVM9AllegedExtortionLetter.pdf

Identity of the Nine

 * 1) Barbara Bouchey
 * 2) Ellen Gibson
 * 3) Nina Cowell
 * 4) Jan Heim
 * 5) Sheila Cote
 * 6) Kathy Ethier
 * 7) Susan Dones
 * 8) Kim Woolhouse
 * 9) Angela Ucci

Forbes Article Comments
If you look at the following article that is listed above: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0724/044a.html It is interesting to note that it actually calls NXIVM a "an executive training firm", in the text of the article, it does not list it as a "cult" itself. The title itself was actually part of a follow-through investigation of the 2003 article, so it had to bear the same name, but the text of the follow-through did not explicitly state that NXIVM was a "cult". Is there any objection to its removal from the list above? U21980 (talk) 16:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So basically what I am saying is, the 2003 original article can be included in the list which claims that NXIVM is a "cult" but the 2006 follow-through should not. U21980 (talk) 16:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What's the title of the 2006 follow-up? Chrisrus (talk) 05:54, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The title of the article is Follow-Up: The Bronfmans and the Cult (referring to the title of the 2003 article). My point is, if the 2003 article had been named The Bronfmans and NXIVM, then the title for this article would have reflected that instead. So the 2006 article by that standard, does not actually refer to NXIVM as being a "cult" itself. U21980 (talk) 17:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * An article titled "The Bronfmans and the Cult" doesn't refer to NXIVM as a cult? That's just wrong.--Milowent • talkblp-r  18:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * A follow-up article that simply restates the title of the 2003 article but does not label NXIVM as a cult does not actually count. Now the 2003 article, that is a different story of course. U21980 (talk) 05:16, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Press

 * 1) New York Magazine | http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2007/10/all_about_nxivm_the_cultlike_o.htmlThis article is from New York Magazine. It's entitled "All About NXIVM, the Cultlike Organization With Ties to Albany".
 * 2) New York Observer  http://www.observer.com/2010/daily-transom/poor-little-rich-girls  In this August, 2010 New York Observer article, Maureen Tkacik, tells how the Bronfman heiresses (to the Seagram fortune) continue to be influenced by Keith Raniere and NXIVM into spending their fortune on lawsuits, private investigators with disreputable backgrounds, and subversive methods attempting to silence or discredit K.R./NXIVM critics including Rick Ross (consultant). It also says that NXIVM's sponsorship of the Dalai Lama's visit to Albany, NY to publically meet KR was Sara Bronfman's doing.  She used her fortune and influence and years of hard work and dedication to make it happen, flying to Tibet.
 * 3) Forbes Magazine
 * 4) http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/1013/088.html The Forbes article "Cult of Personality" includes indirect quotations from KR denying that it's a cult.
 * 5) http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0724/044a.html *(no explicit mention of NXIVM as cult, see discussion post below)*This July 25, 2005 follow-up article to The Bronfmans and the Cult reports that sources including a former NXIVM consultant say that the sisters have lost so much money with KR and NXIVM that they have had to borrow money from Citigroup against their future trust fund allowances.   It also reports that Sara bought an apartment in the Trump Tower for Salzman and a jet for NXVM, on which Sara and Nancy flew with a NXIVM new member recruitment team to Ireland.  Also, Clare has paid NXIVM two million dollars in exchange for 24/7 access to Nancy.  The reporter, whose name is “Phyllis Berman“, says she didn’t get replies from repeated requests for comment from KR, NS, or NXM or Bronfman reps.
 * 6) http://blogs.forbes.com/docket/2010/03/29/the-bronfmans-and-the-cult/ This article from Forbes Magazine called "the Bronfmans and the Cult" by Nathan Vardi is about how the Bronfman sisters are involved in a creepy cult that takes all their money.
 * 7) Metroland  |http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol29_no32/features.html  NXIVM sued Metroland for publishing this article on the grounds that it portrayed them as a cult.
 * 8) Village Voice | http://www.villagevoice.com/2007-10-16/news/secret-agent-schmuck/full In the Village Voice article, Secret Agent Schmuck" the author, in the course of talking about something else, defines the organzation thusly: "...the NXIVM Corporation, an Albany-based company that offers seminars in achieving personal and business goals, and whose devotees include heirs to some of the richest fortunes in America and Mexico. In the last few years, former members of NXIVM have come forward to claim that the company is in fact a predatory personal-growth cult that subjects its members to intensive brainwashing and requires them to swear their lives to its leader"
 * 9) The Times Union | http://www.timesunion.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=home&search=1&firstRequest=1&query=keith+raniere&x=23&y=10&searchindex=property
 * 10) Daily Gazette | http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2009/mar/29/0329_weaver/ The Daily Gazzette Archives returns many hits for "NXIVM" and "Keith Reniere".  This one is titled "Dalai Lama's visit to Albany sponsored by cult-like group", and was in the Sunday Gazette on March 29, 2009
 * 11) Macleans http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/09/how-to-lose-100-million/
 * 12) Vanity Fair | http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/11/bronfman-201011?currentPage=1] This article is called The Heiresses and the Cult.
 * 13) The Buffalo News | http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article377475.ece Local developer tangled in legal battle : Parlato accused of fraud in dispute over fee in Los Angeles real estate negotiations By Phil Fairbanks, News Staff Reporter, Published: March 27, 2011, 8:07 AM This news report says that many people say that it's a cult who loses money wrecklessly. It names some of the people who say it's a cult.

Ex-members

 * 1) Joseph O'Hara [http://albarchive.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6305760]
 * 2) Barbara Bouchey
 * 3) Becca Friedman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.235.16.2 (talk) 22:27, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Paid Experts

 * 1) Dr. John Hochman, M.D.
 * 2) Dr. Paul Martin, Ph.D.
 * 3) Rick Ross (consultant)

Family of Members

 * 1) Edgar Bronfman, Sr. (Cite NYObserver, above)

Positive Reviews, Denials/No-mention of "cult" description

 * 1) KR himself
 * 2) Former members
 * 3) Present members
 * 4) The Bronfmans
 * 5) Sarah Edmondson | http://sarahedmondson.wordpress.com/ Notable Canadian Actress
 * 6) Ivy Nevares | In Spanish Seems to be one of the Mexican members that some articles spoke of. Loves KR and NXM and seems to be trying to start some kind of movement in Mexico. Check it out!
 * 7) The organization itself | http://www.nxivm.com/
 * 8) Lawyers for NXIVM
 * 9) http://albarchive.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6305760
 * 10) Satisfied Customers
 * 11) That British Billionaire who owns Virgin Airlines and such
 * 12) Bill and Hilary Clinton family friend (according to NY Mag article)
 * 13) Others
 * 14) Press
 * Times Union|http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/NXIVM-flexes-legal-muscle-1410120.php (no mention of NXIVM as a "cult" just as a "unusual self-improvement business")

Discussion of positive review section

 * This list basically means we have no reliable sources (under wikipedia policies) to say its not a cult.--Milowent • talkblp-r 04:52, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Is this meant to state that Ross, and the NXIVM Nine are reliable sources? In terms of being fair, if we are going to consider Rick Ross a reliable source, than so is Raniere, Bronfman, and others who have actually taken courses. U21980 (talk) 23:06, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, let's not forget that unlike Raniere and the Bronfmans, Ross has a criminal background. So we have to consider what "reliable" actually means in context here. If Raniere, the Bronfmans', or the people who had taken the courses are not considered to be valid or "reliable", how much more that of Bouchey along with the rest of the NXIVM Nine who are accused of extorting money from the organization? My point is, at what point are the sources I have highlighted above reliable? Please let me know if I have misunderstood the meaning behind your post above. I look forward to hearing your response! U21980 (talk) 23:10, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi everyone, I hope that this post finds you well. I am going to go ahead and modify the above category to be a bit more fair towards NXIVM in lieu of no responses to my previous post about possibly revising the category. Let me know if this is an issue! U21980 (talk) 16:20, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Discussion of this subproject
Based on birth date he would be 20 in 1981 not 16. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.105.252 (talk) 14:23, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Chrisrus (talk) 02:00, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, we should list any mainstream news article that has done a thorough examination and concluded it is not a cult.--Milowent • talkblp-r 02:10, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, agreed. But this was in response to your most recent edit.  "former members" isn't enough. We should say how many and in the body who they are and what they said.  Then we should list everyone else.  So please help me with the list and then we'll complete your last edit, or at least make it more complete.  Then yes we should also say who says no it's not and what you said or whatever else.  Then let the reader decide or read on for more before deciding. Chrisrus (talk) 02:29, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * My point was there are no such articles.--Milowent • talkblp-r 03:04, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Understood. Please help with the list.  Then your clause can be expanded.  We want to say something like "...a "cult" or "cult-like organization" by Forbes {cite}, etc."  Don't you agree? Chrisrus (talk) 18:33, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps its just me, but doesn't it seem like the page will just be bogged down if we expand upon supporters and critics of the organization? I can see listing a few of them, but to go ahead and list everyone who supports or is against the organization may be a bit unnecessary for this type of page. Just my opinion though. U21980 (talk) 01:20, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I see. I suggest we see what we've got when it's done here and then decide what to do with this information.  I quess I'll procede, feel free to help.  Chrisrus (talk) 03:09, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * To be fair, Times-Union's most recent article on NXIVM describes it not as a "cult" but as an "unusual self-improvement business" U21980 (talk) 04:19, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Far from fair, the Times-Union has been clear that Raniere is a two-bit charlatan.--Milowent • talkblp-r 04:51, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I am citing the exact words of a Times-Union article. My question is, at what point do we discount this description of NXIVM (With this quote being the most recent description of the organization - which does not list it as a "cult") in place of that of another Times-Union article? Being fair, I haven't seen anyone describe Raniere as a "two-bit charlatan" though. U21980 (talk) 23:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Not in so many words, no. But that's pretty much how it consistantly portrays him to my reading, minus the "two-bit." More like two-billion bit, how many "bits" equals two-hundred million dollars?  Anyway, I get it delivered and read the articles and I'd say based on that that, on balance, "charlatan" is what I've gotten out of it.  Like the Gazette, the Times-Union has done tons of articles about this topic, all pretty clearly negative, although you could also use the TU to cite people who've said nice things about it.  Someone needs to go through them all, but all of mine (except this week's) have gone out with the recycling.  I researched this before and reported back here, maybe in the archives or above.  But like the Gazette, someone's got to either "take one for the team" and pay to see those articles and summerize them here, or go down to the library, of somesuch.  I'll try again and let you know.  Chrisrus (talk) 02:57, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Chrisrus, thanks for your response! According to the description of the organization in the latest article, is it possible that the Times-Union is pulling away from the perjorative "cult" label? This is my point, the latest article seems to avoid calling it a "cult", so do we cite the Times-Union as calling it a "cult" in the past with the recognition that as of the latest article it seems to avoid doing so? U21980 (talk) 15:45, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The TU is always very professional about how they phrase things. They wouldn't call someone (or something) by a negative word without being very careful to say "alleged" or somesuch.  To the extent that they do, in fact, call it that, therefore, it's very significant.  You wouldn't expect the TU or another traditional professional newspaper like the Gazzette to say "cult", as it's not a well defined technical term.  That's why it's so powerful when they call it "cultlike".  Chrisrus (talk) 04:20, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand what you mean here, and I appreciate the discourse. I think we should acknowledge that it seems like it is doing both (avoiding the label currently, while calling it a "cult" in the past). What do you think about that? U21980 (talk) 05:19, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Discussion of Vanity Fair Summary
Please keep the discussion out of the workspace. Chrisrus (talk) 03:14, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

In a November, 2010 five-page VANITY FAIR article, NXIVM, is described as a "cult" founded by Keith Raniere and based on his theories. It reports that Raniere has lost nearly $200 million funded by 2 wealthy sisters who are among his followers and rank highly in the organization. It alleges that Raniere spent the funds in commodities trading and real estate ventures and notes that the losses occurred during bull markets, prior to the 2008 economic collapse or decline in either market. The article examines the "cult"'s role in the heiresses' family dynamics, and suggests NXIVM and Raniere are using them to take advantage of the young women and rob them of their inheritance.


 * These allegations seem damning in a sense, but if true (and this is a questionable accusation) this begs the question: aren't the Bronfman sisters entitled to spend their money however they like? From what I have read so far of this article, it doesn't indicate that they are being deceived or are being coerced, but are supporting NXIVM through their own volition. At a point in the article, the following quote appears: "Sara and Clare Bronfman appear to be claiming that they are not responsible for what many would consider to be the squandering of their fortune. They were victims—of an unscrupulous financial manager, among the many other people who took advantage of them." So there is obviously a second side to this story. U21980 (talk) 04:21, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * So how would you like to edit the summary? Chrisrus (talk) 04:58, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I think that the summary should indicate that while these allegations are being made, the Bronfman's have a different perspective and then we can begin to lay that out. I just want all views about this controversy to be represented. U21980 (talk) 15:45, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, you might want to try writing your own fair, honest, non-POV summary of the Vanity Fair article. Feel free to write something along the lines of "This article says that _____. " Just the facts, Ma'am.  What does the Vanity Fair Article say?  Feel free to edit the existing summary or write your own summary or combine them both.  Chrisrus (talk) 16:08, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

New York Observer article discussion
The New York Observer never calls NXIVM a "cult" or states that it is "cult-like", so why is it included in the list above? If anything, it should be listed as an article that does not label NXIVM as a "cult". U21980 (talk) 15:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't agree. To me, it is called a cult or cultlike several times in the article. Chrisrus (talk) 01:51, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, here, for example "On the evening of my visit to Saratoga Springs, Mr. Tighe called to inform me that a NXIVM member with whom I had met a few hours earlier had been “spotted” talking to me by a few apparent members of the cult." Chrisrus (talk) 01:56, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Discussion of the Daily Gazette articles
Also the Daily Gazette article is an op-ed that seems to require possibly paid subscriptions to access. Has anyone had the chance to read the entire article? There had been concerns raised about citing from this source before, but these issues had never been resolved. With that said, I have to ask again, is this op-ed a work of "factual journalism" or just a random New Yorker's opinion? If it is more of the latter, is it valid under the strict standards of WP:RS or would it be in violation of WP:BLP? These are questions that are important to resolve. U21980 (talk) 04:29, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if it's a Letter from the Editor or some such, it's the official opinion of the paper, so we can truely say that the paper called it that. If it's from a report, it might be the reporter's conclusion or that of someone being interviewed in the paper.  If it's a letter TO the editor, then it's the conclusion of the writer, who might be an expert on the subject or, as you say "some random New Yorker".
 * As to access to the article, yes, I read it at the time and I think others here did, too. But since then, it's aged off and into the archives.  And yes, if you want to look at any of their old stuff from the archives, it costs money.  The last time I checked (I wrote you all a short report about it) there were a whole bunch of hits of "NXIVM" and "Keith Raniere" there, many, many more than just this one.  They've been following it for years.  Getting access to all that material is very important for this article, I think.  What we need is for someone to take a hit for the team and pay the $20.00 or whatever it is to get to all those articles and read them and summarize them here.  I'm hoping that's not going to have to be me, so I'll wait a bit and see who's willing to go for it.  The alternative might be just to go down to a library that has a collection of old Gazettes and bring your lap top or a notebook and a pencil and make like you're back in high school and research all that for us, and, again, post it here.  Or actually, you might be some strange catlady hoarder who saves all their old newspapers and can dig around in the basement and get that stuff.  Chrisrus (talk) 05:10, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well we have to figure out who the author is, if he is some random New Yorker, then he wouldn't be listed as a news source, but just that, a "random citizen". U21980 (talk) 15:56, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

The "NXIVM Nine"
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisrus (talk • contribs) 04:34, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Sources on the Nine
| http://web.timesunion.com/pdf/NXIVM9AllegedExtortionLetter.pdf

Identity of the Nine

 * 1) Barbara Bouchey
 * 2) Ellen Gibson
 * 3) Nina Cowell
 * 4) Jan Heim
 * 5) Sheila Cote
 * 6) Kathy Ethier
 * 7) Susan Dones
 * 8) Kim Woolhouse
 * 9) Angela Ucci

Metroland Article
Hi everyone, even though I disagree with its inclusion, (my opposition is well noted on this discussion page) I looked through this article and can for sure say that the author himself never states that NXIVM is a "cult". U21980 (talk) 16:32, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Does he quote anyone else saying so? And I'm happy that you've looked through it, please tell us all what it is and says.  Chrisrus (talk) 05:32, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * My point is simply this, if the author of the article is not making the claim, then by stating that "Metroland states that NXIVM is a 'cult'" is a bit misleading. Wouldn't you agree? U21980 (talk) 17:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * NXIVM thought it depicted them as a cult. They said so in court when they sued, claiming that the article contains attempts to "make the (cult) connection" and lists them.  Also, when I read it, I can't imagine anyone coming away from it with any other impression than "some kind of creepy mind-control organization" or "cult".  When you read it, doesn't it give you the impression that they're a cult? Chrisrus (talk) 20:13, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Forbes Article Comments
If you look at the following article that is listed above: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0724/044a.html It is interesting to note that it actually calls NXIVM a "an executive training firm", in the text of the article, it does not list it as a "cult" itself. The title itself was actually part of a follow-through investigation of the 2003 article, so it had to bear the same name, but the text of the follow-through did not explicitly state that NXIVM was a "cult". Is there any objection to its removal from the list above? U21980 (talk) 16:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So basically what I am saying is, the 2003 original article can be included in the list which claims that NXIVM is a "cult" but the 2006 follow-through should not. U21980 (talk) 16:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What's the title of the 2006 follow-up? Chrisrus (talk) 05:54, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The title of the article is Follow-Up: The Bronfmans and the Cult (referring to the title of the 2003 article). My point is, if the 2003 article had been named The Bronfmans and NXIVM, then the title for this article would have reflected that instead. So the 2006 article by that standard, does not actually refer to NXIVM as being a "cult" itself. U21980 (talk) 17:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * An article titled "The Bronfmans and the Cult" doesn't refer to NXIVM as a cult? That's just wrong.--Milowent • talkblp-r  18:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * A follow-up article that simply restates the title of the 2003 article but does not label NXIVM as a cult does not actually count. Now the 2003 article, that is a different story of course. U21980 (talk) 05:16, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Book Information
Hi everyone, I actually came across this result in Amazon when I searched for one of Raniere's books: Odin & the Sphinx by Ethical Publishing LLC (2007) with an ISBN#: 0979873207 Apparently there are two used copies for sale for $30.00, which is not an expense I can afford to take at the moment. The reason I ask this is that I was wondering if anyone with access to library resources can look this book up. I figure it could give us some material to add into the page itself. U21980 (talk) 05:30, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I personally am very interested in it. A few points:


 * 1) I think it seems to me to be "self-published". I mean, if you have enough money you can have copies of a book you've written printed up and to try to sell them mail order or the net or just keep them or make gifts of them.  But unless it's done by a "real" publisher such as Random House or some such, I suppose you could call yourself an author, but depending on the context you are saying that you are an author, it might be a disengenous thing to say because many people might question whether that makes you a real writer.  This seems to be the only book ever put out by the "publisher", "Ethical Publishing, LLC, except for the "Thelxiepia" book I'll talk about below.  It makes you think that the publishing house was created for the book, not the other way around.  The name "Ethical" is a clue because as you may know about half of the things associated with him/it are called "Ethical".  Anyway, in conclusion, someone might object if we simply added "KR wrote this book" in the article for these reasons.
 * 2) I found conflicting evidence as to whether KR really wrote the books himself, co-authored them with another person, "contributed" to them, or just "edited" them. The others to which the books are credited include "Ivy Nevares" and "Sean H. Craney", neither of whom I could find anything about.
 * 3) It might turn out to be a good source for citing a description of his ethical philosophy, if it does that. We could say something like "KR's ethical philosophy is such-and-so", and the add this book as a reference.  I doubt it, personally, though.  It might be one of these philopsopy books that are intended more to convince people that the author is an impressive person and less to actually make a clear, coherent point.  Some of these are written in such a way that if we were to summarize it, others could come along and say that we'd misinterpreted it because we're not smart or educated or enlightened enough to understand the profundity of the statements and the common English words specially re-defined with new meanings in the text, leading to a risk of "emporor's new clothes-ism" if you will. But that's just my guess.  We could look at it and find him clearly explaining his ethical philosophy and state that "KR's ethics hold that the most important thing is to focus on one's family" or the exact opposite.
 * 4) I personally would love to get get to the bottom of this book mystery because I'm just very curioius, so thanks for bringing it up and putting out a plea for someone to get it or have their library do so. Good luck with that and please let us know all about it and who knows it might lead to improving this article.
 * 5) There's another one, The Sphinx and Thelxiepeia, ISBN 0979873215, 9780979873218. I don't know why it has two ISBNumbers. Google Books has him as an author, but Barnes and Noble says it's by someone else, so I don't really know if he wrote it or not. Chrisrus (talk) 18:49, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Chrisrus, thanks for the research! I haven't seen anything on that book, so thanks for providing the information about it. I look forward to trying to get down to the bottom of this. U21980 (talk) 05:18, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

An open letter to Keith Raniere
Hello Mr. Raniere;

If you can read this, or someone can get this message to him, please, It might be a good idea for you to read BLPSELF.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisrus (talk • contribs) 02:15, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Companies Raniere is Associated with
Hey everyone, I've went ahead and added a neutral list of organizations that Raniere is listed as either Founding or being the Conceptual Founder of. I have deliberately limited the amount of information about the organizations since it is not necessary to list anything else about them. Please let me know what you think!U21980 (talk) 05:16, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it'd be fine to mention each of these organizations in their proper context. Just saying that he's associated with these organizations is pretty weak, without any explanation of what any of what these organizations are or are all about.  And please, not just his promotional stuff but also from the newpaper articles and whatnot that mention each organization, and in the text not until the text describing the facts comes to the point that it's appropriate to mention them, such as the organization specifically created to sponsor the Dahli Llama. Unless these organizations come up during the course of talking about something notable about the man, we shouldn't mention them.  And by "something notable", let that judgement be that of the sources, not of Wikipedia. Chrisrus (talk) 22:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I've removed that section, since they don't appear to be notable, and because there is no independent sourcing to verify it and make a case for its relevance. Drmies (talk) 16:12, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

The Daily Gazette Collection

 * 1) June 28, 2003 News Article: Private center for 'human potential' under review by PAM ALLEN Gazette Reporter, Length: 392 Words, Page: B-01 HALFMOON - Town planning officials are reviewing a proposal for an unusually styled building set in a quarry area off Woodin Road that would serve as a center for self-improvement. At a Planning Board meeting this week, the applicant, Nancy Salzman, described the facility as a "human potential school" that would help people improve in all areas of their lives, including parenting, relationships, time management, nutrition and professional goals. The...
 * 2) August 9, 2003 News ArticleSelf-help enterprise sues over cult claim by BRIAN McGUIRE Gazette Reporter, 567 Words, Page: D-01 "ALBANY - An international self-help organization that has met local resistance to its plans for a Halfmoon headquarters has filed a multimillion-dollar federal lawsuit against a former member and two others for making what it says are false and defamatory claims about its work. NXIVM Corp., formerly known as Executive Success Programs Inc., was founded by Brooklyn native and RPI graduate Keith Raniere in 1998. The group attracts members by offering what its Web site describes as..."
 * 3) October 7, 2003 Op ed. Column Writer: Guru teaches 'blind ambition ethos', Publication: Daily Gazette, The (Schenectady, NY), Length: 259 Words, Page: C-07, HALFMOON - The local controversy surrounding self-help guru Keith Raniere and the Capital Region-based business he helped found five years ago is the subject of a cover article in the Oct. 13 Forbes magazine. Raniere, a 43-year-old RPI graduate whose Executive Success Seminars have attracted more than 3,700 attendees to seminars in Albany, Seattle, Boston, New York, and several cities in Mexico since 1998, has come under increasing scrutiny over the past several.
 * 4) September 19, 2003 News Article: Spa County boardsays no to NXIVM: Halfmoon to discuss recommendation on building proposal of self-help group by PAM ALLEN Gazette Reporter, Length: 571 Words, Page: B-06 HALFMOON - An international self-help organization that applied to build its headquarters off Woodin Road is not a permitted use in the town's commercial zone, according to a recommendation by the Saratoga County Planning Board. Town planners say they will meet Monday with their attorneys to discuss the county board's recommendations regarding a proposal by NXIVM to build the two-story, 66,900-square-foot facility at the corner of Woodin Road and Stone...
 * 5) November 9, 2003 Local News Article: 'Human-potential' guru under scrutiny by PAM ALLEN Gazette Reporter,, 1,507 Words, Page: A-01 NXIVM in a nutshell: Who are they? NXIVM is a 5-year-old company that operates on New Karner Road in Colonie, NY. Trainers conduct "human potential" courses designed to improve personal and professional skills by "removing self-imposed" limitations.
 * 6) November 9, 2003 Local News Article Group's founder settled state allegations of pyramid scheme by PAM ALLEN Gazette reporter, Length: 757 Words, Page: A-09 HALFMOON - NXIVM founder Keith Raniere is no stranger to the business world - or to legal wrangling. In 1990 in Clifton Park, Raniere started a multilevel marketing program called Consumers' Buyline. The now-defunct service offered discounts on myriad items, with about 250,000 customers paying $19 a month. The company filed for bankruptcy and ceased operations in 1993, and attorneys general in 20 states began investigating the business as an alleged pyramid...
 * 7) November 17, 2003 Letter to the editor, Concerned Local Person, Shame on NXIVM by CHARLES DEMARCO, Length: 146 Words Page: A-11 Wow! It amazes me daily how truly clueless we're becoming as a society and how far people are willing to take advantage of it (Nov. 9 story on NXIVM). Let me give anyone who wants "a deeper feeling of existence" some free info: Improve your "human potential" and you won't have to bow to me, wear a sash, or call me "Vanguard." Millions do it daily since the dawn of time. Go...
 * 8) December 20, 2003 Letter to the Editor, Notable Expert/Critic Story on NXIVM's Raniere failed to tell all Author: RICK ROSS, Length: 408 Words, Page: A-09 The Gazette published two stories by Pam Allen Nov. 9 titled, "'Human-potential' guru under scrutiny" and "Group's leader settled state allegations of pyramid scheme." Both of these reports were about Keith Raniere, a failed marketing guru who has launched a new business that sells "intensive" training programs called NXIVM (pronounced Nexium). But Ms. Allen did not...
 * 9) January 3, 2004 News Article: NXIVM drops classroom space from proposal by PAM ALLEN, Gazette Reporter, Length: 882 Words, Page: B-01 HALFMOON - A self-improvement program that claims to help people reach their full human potential has downsized a proposal that would have included building a training center in the southern part of town. The organization, NXIVM, will eliminate all of the educational facilities proposed for the eight-acre property, which is located in a rural area near the intersection of Stone Quarry and Woodin roads.  A letter from the company's engineering consultant to Stephen...
 * 10) August 15, 2006 News Brief Office building proposed at site of Romano's, Length: 326 Words, Page: B2, HALFMOON -- Romano's Family Restaurant at 1475 Route 9, which closed in May after decades in operation, has been proposed as a 4,000-square-foot office building. The plans, submitted to the Planning Board in early June by NXIVM speaker Barbara Bouchey, call for converting the former eatery into business space with four offices, a meeting room, cafe, reception area and rest rooms, town officials said. The property initially listed for $875,000, but was sold to Bouchey for...
 * 11) August 25, 2006 "Details of NXIVM suit filed with clerk" by Kathy Parker, Gazette Reporter. Length: 601 Words, Page: B4 Details of a lawsuit pending in a federal court have been filed in the Saratoga County Clerk's office as a buyer-beware notice to anyone interested in a 17-acre parcel of land next to the Spa State Park in Saratoga Springs. The lawsuit filed by NXIVM Corporation and several of its stakeholders seeks millions of dollars from two former company lawyers, Joseph O'Hara and Douglas Rutnik, as well as from O'Hara's ex-wife Denise Polit.
 * 12) November 2, 2006 Local News Article: "Planning Board tables NXIVM's proposal to open cafe, offices, two from company fail to agree on use for building by PAM ALLEN Gazette Reporter. Length: 410 Words, Page: B1 A proposal by NXIVM to open a cafe and offices in the former Romano's restaurant was tabled recently after two representatives for the company couldn't agree on how the building would be occupied. After the Planning Board peppered the pair with questions and agreed to table the proposal, Dan Morelli, of Morelli Design and Construction, told the board, "Let's just sit there and let Romano's sit there and get overgrown. This has...
 * 13) November 21, 2006 News: Property to house cafe, offices Author: PAM ALLEN, Gazette Reporter, Length: 403 Words, Page: B1 The former Romano's restaurant on Route 9 will become an organic cafe offering public work space with Internet hookups and access to fax machines, photocopying and other office-related services. The Planning Board approved the new use last week, after NXM Trust confirmed that the plans did not include training seminars. Board members said they had concerns with multiple uses in the building. NXM's plans also include renting space to a commercial...
 * 14) March 29, 2009 Editorial Dalai Lama's visit to Albany sponsored by cult-like group Author: DANIEL T. WEAVER for The Sunday Gazette, Length: 883 Words, Page: D1  The Dalai Lama should cancel his April 19 visit to Albany, or find a new group to sponsor it. While I have a few issues with the Dalai Lama himself, my primary objection to his visit is the group sponsoring it, the World Ethical Foundations Consortium (www.worldethicalfoundations.org). Keith Raniere is founder of the sponsoring group. Sara and Clare Bronfman, heiresses to the Seagram fortune, are co-founders of the Consortium; but what I have to say in this column applies primarily to...
 * 15) May 7, 2009 News: Event is no money maker Author: JUSTIN MASON, Gazette Reporter, Length: 400 Words, Page: A6, Bringing the austere Dalai Lama to the Capital Region is no cheap task. When everything was tallied Wednesday, the nonprofit World Ethical Foundations Consortium found itself holding a $283,510 bill. After including ticket receipts, co-founder and Seagram liquor heiress Clare Bronfman estimated the event lost $142,749, a figure she announced to an audience of roughly 2,600 after the Dalai Lama's speech. "So I'm sorry," she said...
 * 16) September 16, 2010 News Article: NXIVM president sues airline over loss by Kathy Bowen, Gazette Reporter, Length: 317 Words, Page: B2 The president of NXIVM is suing Continental Airlines for $792,500 for the loss of a laptop computer in 2003 that contained proprietary training materials. Nancy Salzman said the information on the laptop had to be recreated and she spent 317 hours over 12 months rewriting educational materials used by her company. NXIVM Corporation and Executive Success Programs seek to bring students to their full potential for success in business and their lives, according to the company...
 * 17) October 24, 2013 News article: http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/around-saratoga/2013/oct/24/police-seize-computer-local-blogger/ "Police seize computer of local blogger" by David Lombardo. "State police on Wednesday seized the computer of a prolific and controversial citizen blogger in Saratoga Springs. Milton resident John Tighe, author of Saratoga in Decline, confirmed that the seizure was connected with the group NXIVM, which he has written about in the past..."

Times Union Collection
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisrus (talk • contribs) 21:29, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) June 26, 1988 Sunday Living Feature: TRY THIS ONE-IN-A-MILLION TEST Section: Sunday LIVING TODAY, Page: G4 Some of the questions Keith Raniere had to answer to qualify for membership in the Mega Society appear below. Try them and see how well you do. Don't look here for the answers, however. They are never published…”
 * 2) Sunday, June 26, 1988 New Report: TROY MAN HAS A LOT ON HIS MIND; IQ TEST PROVES WHAT MANY SUSPECTED: HE'S ONE IN 10 MILLION Irene Gardner Keeney Page: G1 “You might say that Keith Raniere is one in a million. He's a member of Mega, a high-IQ society with a minimum requirement at the one-in-a-million level. Actually, the 27-year-old Troy resident is in an even more exclusive category. By answering correctly all but two questions on a 48-question, self- administered test, Raniere moved up to the rarified one-in-10-million level. To qualify for membership in the Mega Society, aspirants must answer correctly at least 45 questions. According to…”
 * 3) May 21, 1992 News: DISCOUNT SERVICE TARGET OF PROBE PYRAMID SCHEME ALLEGED, Thursday,, Page: B1 Consumer Buylines Inc., a locally based discount buying service with 200,000 members nationally, is being investigated by authorities in New York and Maine and has been sued by the Arkansas attorney general for allegedly using deceptive trade practices. "They're essentially operating what appears to be an illegal pyramid," said Perrin Jones, a spokesman for the Arkansas Attorney General. "Everything depends on you bringing in more and more people until the thing collapses under its own weigh…”
 * 4) April 20, 1993 News CONSUMERS BUYLINE A PYRAMID SCHEME, ABRAMS ALLEGES “State Attorney General Robert Abrams has sued a Clifton Park-based discount buying club, alleging that it is an illegal, multimillion-dollar pyramid scheme. Consumers Buyline, with headquarters at 100 Sitterly Road, has 5,000 members in New York and 200,000 around the country. Company President Keith Raniere denied the charges. In May, the Times Union reported that Consumers Buyline had been sued by the Arkansas attorney general and was under investigation by authorities in Maine and Ne…”
 * 5) August 24, 1997 SOME DIP, OTHERS DIVE INTO SELLING “Thousands of Capital Region residents are overcoming their inherent caution and skepticism and diving into multilevel marketing as a result of economic pressures and industry promises of easy, supplemental incomes earned from the home. The state Labor Department estimates that 1,140 people are employed in the region in vending, soliciting and door-to-door sales, a category that includes MLM distributors. But the category does not include the vast majority of people who are involved in ML..”.
 * 6)  August 24, 1997SUCCESS CAN QUICKLY TURN TO RUIN Page: C2 “The Capital Region's claim to national notoriety in the world of multilevel marketing was Consumers Buyline Inc., which toppled under the weight of 25 separate investigations by state attorneys general and others several years ago. Keith Raniere of Clifton Park founded the now-defunct company in 1990. At its height in the early '90s, Raniere had 250,000 distributors nationwide and 173 direct employees in the region. Consumers Buyline was forced to close after investigations by 23 states a…”
 * 7) July 29, 2003 News `SUCCESS SCHOOL' PLANS RAISE CONCERN “The architect of an alleged multimillion-dollar pyramid scheme that toppled under dozens of state and federal investigations wants to build a headquarters here for his latest controversial enterprise: a human potential school. Self-described ``scientist, mathematician, philosopher and entrepreneur'' Keith Raniere has proposed a 66,900-square-foot complex for rapidly growing southern Saratoga County that would serve as a training center for his company, NXIVM, and its Executive Success Program…”
 * 8) July 29, 2003 `SUCCESS SCHOOL' PLANS RAISE CONCERN, Page: B1 “The architect of an alleged multimillion-dollar pyramid scheme that toppled under dozens of state and federal investigations wants to build a headquarters here for his latest controversial enterprise: a human potential school. Self-described ``scientist, mathematician, philosopher and entrepreneur'' Keith Raniere has proposed a 66,900-square-foot complex for rapidly growing southern Saratoga County that would serve as a training center for his company, NXIVM, and its Executive Success Program...
 * 9) August 8, 2003 News GROUP SUES ITS CRITICS OVER CLAIMS IT IS A CULT, Page: A1 “The group that wants to build a controversial personal training center in Halfmoon has filed a $10 million federal lawsuit against its detractors, claiming they falsely characterized it as a cult and publicized its confidential manual. The NXIVM Corp., also known as Executive Success Programs, filed the $9.7 million civil suit Wednesday in U.S. District Court, naming as defendants The Ross Institute of New Jersey; its executive director, Rick Ross; California psychiatrist John Hochman; and St…”
 * 10) August 28, 2003 GROUP GATHERS BOTH ACOLYTES, DOUBTERS, Page: A1 “HAGUE -- More than 300 students from around the world are in the Adirondacks this week to celebrate ``Vanguard Week, the birthday of Keith Raniere, a self-described philosopher and entrepreneur. During courses run by his personal training company, NXIVM, students wear special scarves and bow to both Raniere, whom they know as ``Vanguard, and the company president, Nancy Salzman, or ``Prefect.'' Both Raniere and Salzman live in Clifton Park. Though laid-back in appearance, the sessions…”
 * 11) August 30, 2003 LAWSUIT CLAIMS GROUP WAS PORTRAYED AS A CULT, Page: B1 “A new lawsuit filed by NXIVM, the controversial company that wants to build what it calls a human potential school in Halfmoon, claims it is losing members and money because of negative publicity characterizing it as a cult. Named as defendants in the copyright infringement suit are social movement commentator Rick Ross of New Jersey; the Ross Institute; clinical psychologist Paul Martin of the Wellspring Retreat of Ohio; and former NXIVM student Stephanie Franco of Deal, N.J. Franco's di…”
 * 12) September 9, 2003 News RULING LETS WEB SITE CRITICAL OF NXIVM STAY ONLINE, Page: B4 “A Web site that accuses a Colonie-based human potential school of being a cult can remain online, a U.S. judge ruled Monday. U.S. District Judge Thomas J. McAvoy denied multiple requests from NXIVM (pronounced NEX-ee-um) to have critical opinions of the group removed from the Web site of The Ross Institute, which tracks information about alleged cults, controversial groups and movements. He cited NXIVM's failure to demonstrate a strong case and said irreparable damage to the company was not p…”
 * 13) COUNTY PLANNERS SAY NO TO NXIVM Thursday, September 18, 2003, Page: B1 “A self-improvement school proposed off Woodin Road in Halfmoon would not be permitted under the area's commercial zoning laws, according to the the Saratoga County Planning Board. Lawrence Benton, director of the county Planning Board, said Wednesday that the 67,000-square-foot facility proposed by Colonie-based NXIVM (pronounced NEX-ee-um) is a private training center, which would not be authorized for a commercial district in the town. In addition, drivers leaving the proposed site's pa…”
 * 14) September 28, 2003, News NEW VISION FOR MIND IN EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, Page: A1 “Halfmoon resident Keith Raniere says he conceptualized a practice called ``Rational Inquiry at the age of 12 while reading ``The Second Foundation by Isaac Asimov. The premise of the science fiction series is that a mathematician forecasts the end of civilization and devises a plan to shorten the period of barbarity before a new civilization is established. Rational Inquiry, a formula for analyzing and optimizing how the mind handles data, as Raniere describes it, is the basis for NXI…”
 * 15) December 21, 2003 NXIVM CUTS TRAINING SCHOOL FROM PLAN, Page: A1 “A company that says it instructs people in how to reach their full potential has again downsized its building proposal for Woodin Road, saying it no longer will include a training center for its controversial self-improvement courses. NXIVM, pronounced NEX-ee-um, said it has scratched plans to build a ``human potential'' school on 8 acres at the intersection of Stone Quarry Road. The company, which teaches self-described philosopher and Halfmoon resident Keith Raniere's Executive Success Prog…”
 * 16) February 1, 2004 AN ESPIAN'S BRIEF LIFE ONCE A DYNAMIC OVERACHIEVER, A WOMAN SAW HER WORLD DETERIORATE AFTER SHE TOOK CLASSES OFFERED BY A HALFMOON-BASED GROUP., Page: A1 “Kristin Marie Snyder's life as an ``Espian lasted just four months. From November 2002 to February 2003, the 35-year-old Alaskan immersed herself in Executive Success Programs (ESP), the teachings of Halfmoon residents Keith Raniere and Nancy Salzman. She attended four ESP ``human potential courses in Anchorage, and traveled to Halfmoon and Colonie to meet ESP leaders on their home turf. An overachiever, Snyder believed ESP would improve her career, personal life and outlook, just as…”
 * 17) April 23, 2004 COURT UPHOLDS NXIVM RULING, Page: B5 “Allegations that a Colonie-based human potential company is a cult can stay online, a federal court has affirmed. Nxivm (pronounced NEX-ee-um), which offers human potential seminars, alleged that Rick Ross of New Jersey, a ``cult deprogrammer,'' published critical commentary of its program after obtaining information through copyright infringement. In September, a federal district judge in Albany denied its request for an injunction to remove the information from a Web site. This week, t…”
 * 18) December 3, 2004 High court rejects Nxivm appeal: “Company had sued researcher over cult label, criticism on Web, Page: B5 ALBANY - The U.S. Supreme Court denied without elaboration an appeal to review a case involving a Colonie human potential training company, free speech and the Internet. The top court refused this week to hear from Nxivm, which hired the Washington law firm Sidley, Austin, Brown & Wood to have allegations that the company is a cult struck from the Web site of cult researcher Rick Ross. The decision moves the case and a $10 million suit filed by Nxivm back to U.S. District Court in Albany,…”
 * 19) August 25, 2005 Nxivm accuses Albany businessman of fraud: Self-awareness training firm, 11 other plaintiffs allege former attorney bilked $2.5M, Page: A1 “ALBANY - A local company that offers self-awareness training for professionals has sued an Albany businessman, alleging he defrauded it and several wealthy members through racketeering schemes that he allegedly masterminded while acting as the company's attorney. In the latest lawsuit filed by Nxivm (pronounced "NEX-ee-um") of Colonie, the company and 11 plaintiffs charge that Joseph O'Hara, the former owner of th…”
 * 20) September 13, 2005 Nxivm loses assets claim Judge refuses to freeze holdings of businessman who is being sued by company, Page: B1 “ALBANY - A federal judge denied a motion on Monday by Nxivm Corp. to freeze the assets of Albany businessman Joe O'Hara, and the company withdrew its lawsuit against him and submitted it in state Supreme Court in Manhattan. Nxivm and 11 staffers alleged in a suit filed in August in U.S. District Court in Albany that O'Hara, the former owner of sports teams in Albany, unlawfully acted as their attorney, and used the position to improperly acquire $317,000 in payments and $2 million in loans f...…”
 * 21) November 3, 2005 Ex-aide calls Nxivm `extremely dangerous':Company attorney denies allegations; neighbors concerned about home, Page: A1 “HALFMOON - A former Nxivm Corp. insider recently became the first to publicly condemn the secretive human development company, while unauthorized construction on a $400,000 Halfmoon home has raised local concerns. The construction on the home recently purchased for Nancy Salzman, Nxivm's president, has worried neighbors, some of whom opposed construction of the company's proposed $15 million headquarters nearby. Separately, Joseph O'Hara, an Albany consultant and former Nxivm official who…”
 * 22) August 6, 2006 Fear and tears after Nxivm class Woman claims stressful, probing conditions used at leadership seminar in Colonie, Page: D1 “Math teacher Nellie Forst wanted to control her temper better so she could one day become a principal. So at the advice of her father, the 28-year-old Philadelphia resident drove to Nxivm in Colonie for a five-day seminar expecting enlightenment and career advice. But by the first evening, Forst says she ran out of the personal development company's New Karner Road office and left the Capital Region in tears. She says the course, held June 10, consisted of 14-hour classes, probing personal q…”
 * 23) October 24, 2006 Board puts off Nxivm plan “Planning panel says applicants contradict each other on proposal for former Romano's, Page: B7 HALFMOON - A failure by Nxivm representatives to provide specifics on how members plan to use the former Romano's restaurant prompted the town Planning Board on Monday to adjourn taking action on the proposal. Attorney Sarah Biscome and Dan Morelli of Morelli Design and Construction are seeking a change of tenant designation for the property on behalf of their clients, high-level Nxivm member Pamela Cafritz and Nxivm Regional Vice President Barbara Bouchey. Bouchey bought the 4,056-square…”
 * 24) November 14, 2006 New tenant OK'd for Romano's, Page: B9 “HALFMOON - The Planning Board approved a change-of-tenant application for the new owner of the former Romano's Restaurant Monday after the client's representative promised the site would not be used for training seminars. Attorney Sarah Biscome said the property would be split into four main parts: an 800-square-foot public cafe with a capacity of 24; a public work station resembling Kinko's where patrons can send faxes and make photocopies; a 1,300-square-foot space to lease to an unknown c…”
 * 25) March 10, 2007 Local Patent Listing SLEEP EFFICIENCY MONITOR and methods for pacing and leading a sleeper through an optimal sleep pattern, Page: B10 “Inventor: Keith Raniere, Clifton Park Patent number: 7,179,218 Issued: Feb. 20 Filed: Dec. 28, 2005 Assigned to: First Principles Inc., Albany
 * 26) News: September 14, 2007 Political connections take to the air: Senate Republicans fly on jet owned by controversial executive training group, Page: A1 “ALBANY - Some Senate Republicans have been getting rides on an aircraft tied to the controversial executive training organization in Halfmoon whose inner circle appears to be getting increasingly involved in politics. The Republican Senate Campaign Committee lists $34,763 in five "in-kind" donations - air transportation - and four monetary donations totaling $31,600 over the last year-and-a-half from two women, who list the address of 1471 Route 9, Suite 202, Halfmoon. The women, Sara and…”
 * 27) October 9, 2007 An unlikely political flight plan: State helicopters carried Bruno to meetings with members of splinter party, Page: A1: ALBANY - Two of Senate Majority Leader Joseph L. Bruno's flights aboard state helicopters to Manhattan took him to meetings with three political activists critics have described as radical, State Police records show. Bruno met on Sept. 29 and Dec. 15, 2004, with Cathy L. Stewart, Jackie Salit and Fred Newman, leaders of the Independence Party of New York County. They split with the third party's hierarchy in 2005. New York County Independence Party members have also been described as cult…”
 * 28) January 16, 2009 DALAI LAMA COMING HERE Spiritual leader of Tibet slated to speak at Times Union Center on April 19 key go here and go here and go here and go it here and go here and go it here it go Spiritual leader of Tibet slated to speak at Times Union Center on April 19, Page: A4 “ALBANY -- World renowned spiritual leader Dalai Lama is appearing at the Times Union Center in April, sponsored by Seagram heiresses Clare and Sara Bronfman and a humanitarian foundation affiliated with the sisters. Clare Bronfman and her group have leased the arena for April 19 and are in the process of booking entertainers to fill out the evening after the Dalai Lama appears. Bronfman, who lives locally, declined to discuss the event Thursday, saying she was preparing a news release with det…”
 * 29) March 13, 2009 THIRD CHOICE IS CHARMED UAlbany plans to welcome Tibetan Buddhist leader after two other schools decline chance to play host, Page: A1 ALBANY -- The University at Albany is finalizing plans to bring the Dalai Lama to campus next month, a move that comes after two other local schools passed on the rare chance to host one of the world's most famous spiritual leaders. Both Skidmore College and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute declined to make their facilities available for events that would have featured the Dalai Lama, according to Seagram heiress Clare Bronfman, a trustee of the Ethical Humanitarian Foundation. The Dalai Lama'...
 * 30) March 18, 2009 DETAILS ON DALAI LAMA'S VISIT Spiritual leader to be at UAlbany in addition to Times Union Center, Page: B7 “More details about the Dalai Lama's April Albany visit were announced Tuesday at the Times Union Center by sisters Sara and Clare Bronfman, the Seagram's heiresses organizing the spiritual leader's area appearances. At a news event attended by Albany Mayor Jerry Jennings, Sara Bronfman said that in addition to a 2 p.m. event April 19 at the Times Union Center, the Dalai Lama will be at the University at Albany April 20 to 22; details on campus events were not yet available. The Bronfmans, who…”
 * 31) March 29, 2009 DETAILS LIGHT ON DALAI LAMA VISIT Emissary OK with event's connection to personal growth group NXIVM, Page: D1 “The Dalai Lama is a busy man. Take a look at his upcoming appearance schedule, posted on his official Web site, http://www.dalailama.com/. Between April 24 and Dec. 2, the 73-year-old spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism with a pop star aura will be globe-trotting from the United States to Europe, from India to Australia, lecturing on peace, compassion and Buddhist teachings. What isn't on that schedule is any mention of his planned five-day visit to Albany. Organizers say that from April 18...”
 * 32) April 6, 2009 DALAI LAMA'S VISIT CANCELED “Tibetan spiritual leader's office cites controversy, Page: A1, The Dalai Lama has canceled his scheduled April appearances in Albany, apparently because of negative publicity connected to the sponsoring organization. In a Sunday e-mail to the Times Union, Tenzin Dickyi, a special assistant to the representative of the Dalai Lama in the New York-based Office of Tibet, stated, "His Holiness's visit to Albany has been canceled." Times Union Publisher George R. Hearst III, president of the University at Albany Foundation, a fundraising arm of UAlbany, where…”
 * 33) April 7, 2009 DALAI LAMA CANCELLATION DISAPPOINTS:Those who wanted to see spiritual leader here will have to travel instead, Page: B1 “Jeanne Mathewson was keyed up when she heard the Dalai Lama was scheduled to speak April 19 at the Times Union Center. "I know several people were not going to buy tickets to this event because of the controversial sponsor; they were talking about going to Boston or New York or another venue," said Mathewson, a member of Albany Karma Thegsum Choling, a Tibetan Buddhist group. "But I was so excited about the Dalai Lama coming to Albany that I just couldn't help it. I bought tickets." As it turn…”
 * 34) April 18, 2009 DALAI LAMA'S CHANGE OF HEART: “Decision to visit Albany follows meeting with group, Page: B1 The Dalai Lama had been scheduled to appear today through Wednesday in Albany. He canceled those appearances because of negative publicity connected to the sponsoring organization, a Dalai Lama representative wrote in an e-mail Friday. Yet days after scrubbing his April appearances in Albany, the Dalai Lama agreed to give a public talk May 6 at the Palace Theatre sponsored by the same organization, the Ethical Humanitarian Foundation (the World Ethical Foundations Consortium is an EHF initiativ…”
 * 35) April 19, 2009, Opinion Colum HELLO (OR GOODBYE), DALAI, Page: B1 “Instead of seeing the Dalai Lama today at the Times Union Center, I will probably be practicing mindfulness and compassion in my backyard, which has suffered a winter's worth of damage at the hands of nature, and our dog. The exiled spiritual leader of Tibet had been scheduled to appear at the Albany arena in a lecture that came with ticket prices that ranged from $52 to $112. I will admit to finding the idea of shelling out that sort of cash -- Springsteen/Coldplay-type sums -- to see a religi…”
 * 36) April 22, 2009, News DALAI LAMA INFO OUT TODAY Page: A2 “Palace Theatre marketing manager Sean Allen said he expects ticket information and the time for the Dalai Lama's public talk in Albany on May 6 at the Palace to be released today. The Dalai Lama is scheduled to speak on compassionate ethics in difficult times as a guest of the World Ethical Foundations Consortium. The Dalai Lama had canceled April 18-22 appearances at the Times Union Center, the University at Albany and The College of St. Rose because of negative publicity connected to the WEF…”
 * 37) May 7, 2009, A MESSAGE OF WISDOM, OPTIMISM: Dalai Lama offers words of hope during his long-awaited visit to Albany, Page: A1 “ALBANY -- With a rock star's aura and a guru's mystique, the Dalai Lama captivated the capital city Wednesday, offering a simple message of tolerance, peace and happiness with an impish grin, a deep chortle and playful exchanges. His underlying theme seemed borrowed from a hit song of an earlier decade: Don't worry, be happy. At a news conference in the Crowne Plaza before his talk at the Palace Theatre, the exiled Tibetan Buddhist spiritual leader delivered gentle wisdom whether he was asked…”
 * 38) May 7, 2009 DALAI LAMA'S MESSAGE COMES THROUGH, Page: A9 “ALBANY -- Because of the 14th Dalai Lama's heavy Tibetan accent and soft-spoken voice, and the lower volume at the back of the Palace Theatre, it was often hard to hear what the renowned spiritual leader was saying during his public talk here Wednesday. Several patrons used binoculars to try to read his lips. The Dalai Lama's message of practicing compassion and tolerance was understood nonetheless by a rapt audience. Palace General Manager Chris Gould estimated the event was about 200 tickets…”
 * 39) January 31, 2010 News: COURT FILING: NXIVM 'A CULT':Lawsuit suggests leader Keith Raniere lost millions from Bronfman fortune in trading system, Page: A1 “New documents filed in a lawsuit claim that NXIVM, an Albany County personal growth organization, is actually a cult whose leader is a compulsive gambler and investor who risks other people's money -- especially that of a pair of wealthy sisters tapped for about $100 million in recent years. The court dispute, in Los Angeles County, Calif., involves a $26 million real estate deal gone sour and reveals what one ex-NXIVM member described as a "crazy" scheme to make money in commodities trades tha…”
 * 40) March 7, 2010 NXIVM SISTERS EMPLOY TRACKER: Former followers of group say a private investigator intimidates them at homes, other Capital Region sites, Page: A1 “ALBANY -- Clare and Sara Bronfman, wealthy sisters who are major financial backers of the cult-like group called NXIVM, have employed a controversial private investigator to confront friends of a former NXIVM official who has been revealing embarrassing information about them in court. The investigator, Steven Paul Rombom, 51, was once charged by federal prosecutors with trying to intimidate a federal witness and posing as an FBI agent, and was investigated for threatening a client, according t…”
 * 41) June 18, 2010 Ex-NXIVM official seeks protection; Federal bankruptcy court judge told records reveal "potentially illegal" activity By JAMES M. ODATO http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Ex-NXIVM-official-seeks-protection-561798.php#ixzz1U7aUYTMP
 * 42) July 25, 2010 Secret mission: A child NXIVM is years into project "Rainbow Cultural Garden," an intensive effort to raise potential By JAMES M. ODATO http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Secret-mission-A-child-589818.php#ixzz1U7ZlOpdC
 * 43) August 3, 2010 NXIVM critic's plea over child gets little action; Attorney hopes letters spur action by Cuomo's office on behalf of 3-year-old boy JAMES M. ODATO Capitol bureau. Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/NXIVM-critic-s-plea-over-child-gets-little-action-600579.php#ixzz1U7Z6Pf5V
 * 44) August 19, 2010 Press leaks prompt action in bankruptcy; NXIVM heiresses allege private data released; charge contempt of court By JAMES M. ODATO http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Press-leaks-prompt-action-in-bankruptcy-621231.php#ixzz1U7YDpnfJ
 * 45) October 23, 2010 NXIVM sues former officer Ex-Washington training center chief latest target By JAMES M. ODATO http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/NXIVM-sues-former-officer-719268.php#ixzz1U7PbeJTL
 * 46) November 22, 2010Ex-NXIVM trainer: Students are prey: Court filing says founder Keith A. Raniere hunted sessions for sex, cash BY JAMES M. ODATO http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Ex-NXIVM-trainer-Students-are-prey-824046.php#ixzz1U7P2AXOz
 * 47) January 31, 2011 Papers reveal NXIVM secrets: NXIVM founder Keith Raniere's private mission and fear of government unveiled by testimony By JAMES M. ODATO
 * 48) March 21, 2011 Lawyer attacks NXIVM 'scheme' Sealed court transcript reveals argument over notes showing NXIVM's internal practices. By JAMES M. ODATO
 * 49) June 6, 2011 News Report: NXIVM flexes legal muscle Executive success program sues ex-officer, subpoenas defectors, cult-watcher lawyer By JAMES M. ODATO
 * 50) July 28, 2011 News Report: Nine years with NXIVM: Buried under deluge of lawsuits, woman begins to reveal her life inside secretive groupvBy JAMES M. ODATO: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Nine-years-with-NXIVM-1636484.php#ixzz1U7JUD3GV
 * 51) http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/NXIVM-pressed-district-attorney-3379748.php
 * 52) http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Private-eye-lands-in-public-trouble-3872765.php
 * 1) http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/A-split-from-NXIVM-5468731.php Kristin Keefe defects from NXIVM, plans to disclose "shocking" information.

Ex-"cult" member Becca Friedman (and her Daughter, Katya) interviewed
Becca Friedman of Woodstock talks about the three years she spent in the NXIVM program. (Lori Van Buren/Times Union) / Times Union URL | http://www.timesunion.com/default/media/NXIVM-Becca-Friedman-4173.php Retrieved by Chrisrus (talk) 04:40, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

The Metroland Collection

 * 1) Stress in the Family by Chet Hardin “To some, it is a useful training program; to others, a cult. Either way, NXIVM and founder Keith Raniere remain embroiled in controversy” | http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol33_no24/newsfront.html
 * 2) … And yet more from the Nxivm follies by Chet Hardin on June 28, 2010 | http://metroland.net/2010/06/28/and-yet-more-from-the-nxivm-follies/
 * 3) The Stars Come Out in Troy by Chet Hardin “Two TV celebrities—and apparent students of NXIVM—visit the Capital Region with hopes of starting a business” | http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol32_no01/features.html
 * 4) Jennings, a Dalai Lama Fan Boy? As we are reporting online, Albany Mayor Jerry Jennings has endorsed the latest scheme from the region’s favorite bizarre recluse, Keith Raniere. | http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol32_no02/newsfront.html
 * 5) We’ve Been Served—Oh Wait $65 million lawsuit filed over 2008 Metroland article | http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol32_no14/newsfront.html
 * 6) Sue Happy by Chet Hardin “After years of battling NXIVM in court, a nationally known “cult deprogrammer” says the end is nigh“ | http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol32_no51/newsfront.html#2
 * 7) Big Time: Nxivm founder Keith Raniere doesn’t like all the attention; he is notoriously reclusive. But when you create an executive-training system that attracts TV stars, billionaires, and the children of a Mexican ex-president for clients, you get noticed. And when your followers donate $30,000 to Hillary Clinton’s presidential war chest, even New York Post and Village Voice take note. We suspect that even more big surprises await us from Capital Region’s “Vanguard.” | http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol31_no01/features.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisrus (talk • contribs) 02:08, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Discussion of whether Metroland passes NPOV

 * Is metroland.net a NPOV source? Scholar999 (talk) 21:26, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it is. Don't you? I get it once a week because it's free and there, and I always read the cartoons and do the crossword puzzle and at least look at if not read the articles.  It's mostly about arts and local happenings and politics and such, has a sort of artsy liberal bais most evident in the cartoons and some of the news stories.  It reminds me most of DC's City Paper or the Villiage Voice.  Are you saying that we couldn't use it for any purpose?  For example, the story about the notable actors coming here to promote NXIUM, that's a simple report on the fact of a local event.  We don't have to include the opinion of the writer if it says that the event he attended and reported on was good or not.  I assume you wouldn't object if we used it to report the fact that these notable people publically supported him and NXIVM at an event in Troy or whatever it says, have you read it? I think you would only object if we included some of the negative characterizations in the articles as objective fact given the fact that they are just allegations made in a WP:RS and not facts established in court or some such. Is this understanding on my part correct? Chrisrus (talk) 16:53, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

The Saratogian Collection

 * 1) October 19, 2003 Self-improvement program draws mixed reviews By PAUL POST | http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2003/10/19/todays_stories/10344189.txt?viewmode=fullstory “But Executive Success, also called Nxivm, has drawn national attention with allegations that its self-improvement and business strategies have the earmarks of a cult. "It is so not a cult," Salzman said.”
 * 2) October 19, 2003 Business born when former nurse met motivator By PAUL POST story| http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2003/10/19/todays_stories/10344191.txt?viewmode=fullstory Executive Success is based on the premise that people have free will and that they're the product of their choices, says owner Nancy Salzman.”
 * 3) May 07, 2009 Dalai Lama inspires at The Palace by By TOM CAPROOD story| http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2009/05/07/news/doc4a02409ca9e11935930320.txt?viewmode=fullstory “…according to the company’s Web site. However, NXIVM’s operation has been…labeled as a cult-like organization in several media reports, including…"  "...The Dalai Lama…said the cancellation had come after his staff learned of certain allegations surrounding the organization which invited him to the area. Upon further investigation, he and his staff determined there was no problem and decided to accept the invitation….”

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisrus (talk • contribs) 04:57, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

"successful"
I don't think this edit is necessary. For one, having supporters say something suggests there is at least an attempt at impartiality... Drmies (talk) 17:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad to see you policing this mess, Drmies. Raniere appears to be a total fraud from everything I could read on him, but I haven't worried too much about the incessant editing as long as the word "cult" stayed in the lead.--Milowent • talkblp-r  17:23, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Right. Thanks. I have no intention of removing it--did you read through the sources? There's plenty of verification for it. Anyway, I think one of the questions is whether this article and that of the club should be merged. I'm inclined to think that they can both stand on their own, but I'm interested in your opinion, and that of others active here. Thanks again, Drmies (talk) 17:53, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If we are going to keep them separate, then all we need to say in the lead is "...of NXIVM.", period, and then put the onus on that article to say what it is, although it could be restated below. Then, if there is going to be an apositive after a comma that says what it is, then it should be a fair summary of that article.  At the moment, I'm not so sure that whether that's true.
 * Also, as you know, we're not really supposed to cite leads, they are summaries of the article that follows. Ergo, we can say that some people found it very "succesful" (if that's the word they used) if that's cited in the text below, which we can do (It's a bit cherry-picking, I think, please have a look at the sources on this discussion page, to bring that out of the main points of the sources, but nevertheless I'll work it back in because you're right, we have to be as neutral as we can.  What I was trying to do, my main purpose for the edit, was about what the nature and scope of this article and that one was going to be: If we keep them separate, we can link in place of explaining, but I really think we should consider merging because otherwise it should be written diffently.
 * sources could support separate articles, but merger might make sense as editorially the best way to handle the subjects.--Milowent • talkblp-r 19:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Merge with NXIVM?
I suggest we Merge with NXIVM.

For one reason, it'd be so much easier that way than to keep them separate, because otherwise we're asking people to help write two articles instead of just one, and getting this one written is difficult enough as it is.

Also, he's mostly notable only for his association with it. Pretty much all of the sources about it are also about him, and the two topics are pretty much inseparable.

Furthermore, I don't think that it would be good if this article didn't do as good a job explaining what it is than that article does, or will do once if fixed up and kept separate. What job would that article have that this one wouldn't? There's no role to be fulfilled by a separate article.

We should turn the article NXIVM into a redirect here or to a subsection here. Chrisrus (talk) 19:02, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

No Criticism of NXIVM on Raniere page
They aren't the same thing and shouldn't be treated as such. In addition, I wonder about the reliability of some of the sources. Using "Poor Little Rich Girls" as a source is wayyyy too POV-laden, as our many of the sources that User:Chrisus has tried to put up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GoCubs88 (talk • contribs) 22:48, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Dangerous POV violations here
It seems to me that there are two users who are routinely going on to this page and the page of NXIVM and injecting their POV into both pages. They have accused me, without proof, of being a COI editor and insist on acting like WP:OWN on both pages. GoCubs88 (talk) 22:50, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You haven't denied your COI, either, of course, because you can't. What are the dangerous POV violations, sir? That every news source under the sun has concluded that Keith Raniere operates NXIVM in a cult or cult-like fashion?--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">talk<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">blp-r  23:03, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, as I see it there are only two types of editors on these pages, haters and fans; and that's about it, other than some bots and such that roll through and are gone. Yes, that's far from an ideal situation, but there is nothing that can be done about it because no one else cares.  Believe me, I've tried.
 * One difference between us is the fact that fans deny their fandome, but this is in vain as they are judged by thier action and edits, not by thier words. They will react with indignation and say something like "no, I have no opinion whatsoever about him and it and am completely objective.  I simply am an ordinary Wikipedian who cares about nothing but the principles of NPOV and BLP guidelines."  They can say this until the heat death of the universe and it will not change my personal conviction that they are in fact fans, because they edit in ways that convince me that they must be fans, and until that changes my conviction will not change; you are not fooling anyone.  So go ahead and protest that I have unfairly mischaracterized your true feelings about him and it by calling you fans.  I'm just going to ignore all that and we can continue doing what we do here.  If others what to keep trying to get the fans to admit their fandom, that's their business, but I don't see the point, because there's nothing we can do about it that I know of, and actually there are advantages to our side in being the clearly honest ones.
 * I'm sure there are plenty of other articles with editors have much the same situation. Which side has the advantage in such cases depends to a large extent on whose case the WP:RSs support.  In this particular case, that gives the advantage to us haters, because the RSes are pretty much universally negative about him and it.  While the fans have to dig around for this or that which could be somehow construed as praise for the object of their admiration; lean heavily on self-published non-RS sources such as promotional private websites; and ignore or reject the main points in the RSes.  If the situation were different; if the RSes were stories about how effective their personal development programming is, what a good guy KR is, and so on, they wouldn't be much we could do about it because as wikipedians, all we allow each other to do is to inform the readers of the contents of the RSes, and if we do that, in this particular case, there's only one way this is going to go.  Chrisrus (talk) 04:25, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * There's a lot to respond to here. First, I'm glad that you have finally come out and called yourself a "hater" of NXIVM and Raniere. This is good. It means that you admit, User:Chrisrus to bias and should remove yourself from editing this page. It also suggests that you should go back to editing things about animals. Wikipedia isn't about having an "advantage" to place material that is obviously POV-laden as a reliable source. We would disagree as to which of the sources you list are reliable. Describing the Bronfman sisters as, as one of your sources does, "poor little rich girls" isn't a fair or reliable source. It is opinion-laden and there's a ban on using such sources for reliable sources.


 * Second, I'm glad that you have also admitted that there is no proof of me having a COI because I don't have one. I'm following Wikipedia's rules and suggest you do too. There's a reason we have strict rules about WP:BLPs. You are free to read those rules, just as I have, to familiarize yourself with them.


 * Now, to the substance of your charges. I don't believe NXIVM to be a cult. I also don't believe it not to be a cult. I'm agnostic on this question. I don't think that the evidence is as weighty as User:Chrisrus thinks, because, having dabbled in journalism when I was younger, I know how this stuff works. Journalists read other journalists work and then ape their conclusions, rather than drawing their own conclusions themselves.


 * Nevertheless, if you do want to feature a section discussing NXIVM as a cult, do it on the NXIVM page, not on the Raniere one. Next, make sure that that charge isn't in the lede so that readers can form their own opinions on the merits or demerits of the organization before injecting your prejudgments. This is fair. Lots of things are potentially cults. Here are some examples: Harry Potter, most major religions, the Twilight series, Star Trek, or the Taylor Swift page. The point isn't to convey that these things are odd, but to fairly convey them on their own terms. There is always the potential for a criticism section in articles, but we have a criticism section for a reason. We don't want to poison the rest of the article.


 * I'll give you an example of this. I've been involved in editing recently on the pages of Ingvar Kamprad, the founder of IKEA. Nearly every source under the sun also suggests that the guy is, at the very worst, weird and a bit cult-y himself, but accusations of "cult-like" behavior, etc. are placed in a section that readers can evaluate or not evaluate as they see fit.


 * Is NXIVM a cult? How should I know? Former members call it that, but former members of organizations are almost always disgruntled. It bills itself as an executive coaching program and some highly successful people are members. In that assessment, I'd say, tie goes to the view of NXIVM as an executive coaching program and not a cult. Any journalists can claim whatever they like, but the people who use the organization's services tend to support it, so in my view, NXIVM's own claims about itself should get proper billing.


 * This is an issue of fairness--and of following the rules within Wikipedia--more than anything else. I'm happy to bring in administrators and other adjudicators.GoCubs88 (talk) 07:18, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't like NXIVM because I get the paper delivered, that's all. I'm just a local who reads the paper, so of course I don't like him and it.  That's why I can't believe you have familiarity with the RSes, or if you do, you must have other reasons to believe what you do about it, because a simple carpenter from Chicago who read the RSes on him wouldn't type "he's a friend to the Dali Lama who loves peace" and the other stuff you write.  There's no way a person who knew nothing about him and it except the what the RSes have to say about him would come to any other conclusion than they guy is some kind of villain or something.
 * The problem is, you seem to believe that, if you establish that I'm biased against him and no one can prove that you are biased for him, you can have me banned from editing the article on those grounds. That's not the way it works.  You see, it's the article, not the editors, who must be NPOV.  The article must simply repeat the important interesting main points in the RSes.  Editors can feel however they want about things.  So long as my edits faithfully represent what is in the RSes, using NPOV language, I'm good.  So long as you go through the entire Forbes piece and come back and report, in essence, "according to Forbes, it's a successful training program", conventiently omitting the main point of the Forbes, you are the one who is out of line, not me.  This is what you don't seem to understand.
 * Having said that, however, if we could find a good proven author who knows nothing about him and it to simply follow procedure and write the article, I will withdraw from editing it completely. I will not leave it to fans.  Chrisrus (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * "I'd say, tie goes to the view of NXIVM as an executive coaching program and not a cult." This is such bollocks.  I see no independent reliable sources supporting NXIVM's claim that its simply an "executive coaching program."  If anything, THAT should be removed from the article, but realistically, we need to report what NXIVM/Raniere claim it to be, though no one can verify it beyond their claim.  GoCubs, why don't you just send one of your children to join NXIVM and let us know how that goes.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">talk<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">blp-r  14:45, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Dalai Lama Story
The article currently says that Raniere founded an organization that got the Dalai Lama to give a talk in Albany on April 19, 2009. However, http://www.albany.com/news/dalai-lama.cfm and http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Dalai-Lama-cancels-his-visit-to-Albany-118447.php say that the talk was cancelled and never happened.

I am posting this fact to the discussion page because I am not sure whether correct practice would be to delete the entire reference to the episode or whether further discussion around the ethics controversies surrounding Mr. Raniere and his organizations would be more appropriate.
 * So it looks like the original talk was cancelled, but the Dalai Lama did come in May 2009? .--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">has<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">spoken 19:31, 21 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello Milo and thank you for your interest in transferring the information about KR's involvement in sponsoring the Dalai Lama's visit to Albany. While I believe that the matter is spread out through the local broadsheet articles, I believe that the Village Voice and the New York Observer articles have pretty good summaries. It seems like the authors of these articles have already collected and summarized the important facts, details, and allegations from the broadsheet articles there. the Times Union and the Gazzette.  I have tried to do my part behind the scenes to facilitate and promote the transfer of all this information into the article, but hesitate to do so myself.  Please, if you would, familiarize yourself with the relevent citations and transfer the info to the article.  I have several ideas as to how to help from my end and will try to play the part of a research librarian here for others, perhaps you, who will author the text, but you may be able to find everything just by scrolling around this page.  Thanks again for caring and I'll be back to help more soon. Chrisrus (talk) 21:56, 21 October 2011 (UTC)


 * We should get this situation straight and then transfer it to the article. I also made the same mistake because I remembered reading in the paper that it was off, and then it was back on again but I missed that so I used to think it never happend also.  It is indeed confusing!  I will try to find the relevant R.S.es on this page and arrange them in chronological order.  Chrisrus (talk) 21:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The Dalai Lama had been scheduled to appear today through Wednesday in Albany. He canceled those appearances because of negative publicity connected to the sponsoring organization, a Dalai Lama representative wrote in an e-mail Friday.
 * 1) The NYObserver article, |http://www.observer.com/2010/daily-transom/poor-little-rich-girls?show=all portrays the entire thing as basically Claire's doing.
 * 2) This Metroland article bills the event as "the inaugural event of the World Ethical Foundations Consortium, conceptually founded by Raniere, featuring the Dalai Lama". | http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol32_no14/newsfront.html.
 * 3) Times Union articles that returned on an archive search for "Raniere" and "Lama" today, Chrisrus (talk) 01:45, 8 November 2011 (UTC) follow:
 * 4) Times Union January 16, 2009 DALAI LAMA COMING HERE Spiritual leader of Tibet slated to speak at Times Union Center on April 19 key go here and go here and go here and go it here and go here and go it here it go Spiritual leader of Tibet slated to speak at Times Union Center on April 19, Page: A4 “ALBANY -- World renowned spiritual leader Dalai Lama is appearing at the Times Union Center in April, sponsored by Seagram heiresses Clare and Sara Bronfman and a humanitarian foundation affiliated with the sisters. Clare Bronfman and her group have leased the arena for April 19 and are in the process of booking entertainers to fill out the evening after the Dalai Lama appears. Bronfman, who lives locally, declined to discuss the event Thursday, saying she was preparing a news release with det…”
 * 5) March 13, 2009 THIRD CHOICE IS CHARMED UAlbany plans to welcome Tibetan Buddhist leader after two other schools decline chance to play host, Page: A1 ALBANY -- The University at Albany is finalizing plans to bring the Dalai Lama to campus next month, a move that comes after two other local schools passed on the rare chance to host one of the world's most famous spiritual leaders. Both Skidmore College and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute declined to make their facilities available for events that would have featured the Dalai Lama, according to Seagram heiress Clare Bronfman, a trustee of the Ethical Humanitarian Foundation. The Dalai Lama'...
 * 6) March 18, 2009 DETAILS ON DALAI LAMA'S VISIT Spiritual leader to be at UAlbany in addition to Times Union Center, Page: B7 “More details about the Dalai Lama's April Albany visit were announced Tuesday at the Times Union Center by sisters Sara and Clare Bronfman, the Seagram's heiresses organizing the spiritual leader's area appearances. At a news event attended by Albany Mayor Jerry Jennings, Sara Bronfman said that in addition to a 2 p.m. event April 19 at the Times Union Center, the Dalai Lama will be at the University at Albany April 20 to 22; details on campus events were not yet available. The Bronfmans, who…”
 * 7) March 29, 2009 DETAILS LIGHT ON DALAI LAMA VISIT Emissary OK with event's connection to personal growth group NXIVM, Page: D1 “The Dalai Lama is a busy man. Take a look at his upcoming appearance schedule, posted on his official Web site, http://www.dalailama.com/. Between April 24 and Dec. 2, the 73-year-old spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism with a pop star aura will be globe-trotting from the United States to Europe, from India to Australia, lecturing on peace, compassion and Buddhist teachings. What isn't on that schedule is any mention of his planned five-day visit to Albany. Organizers say that from April 18...”
 * 8) April 6, 2009 DALAI LAMA'S VISIT CANCELED “Tibetan spiritual leader's office cites controversy, Page: A1, The Dalai Lama has canceled his scheduled April appearances in Albany, apparently because of negative publicity connected to the sponsoring organization. In a Sunday e-mail to the Times Union, Tenzin Dickyi, a special assistant to the representative of the Dalai Lama in the New York-based Office of Tibet, stated, "His Holiness's visit to Albany has been canceled." Times Union Publisher George R. Hearst III, president of the University at Albany Foundation, a fundraising arm of UAlbany, where…”
 * 9) April 7, 2009 DALAI LAMA CANCELLATION DISAPPOINTS:Those who wanted to see spiritual leader here will have to travel instead, Page: B1 “Jeanne Mathewson was keyed up when she heard the Dalai Lama was scheduled to speak April 19 at the Times Union Center. "I know several people were not going to buy tickets to this event because of the controversial sponsor; they were talking about going to Boston or New York or another venue," said Mathewson, a member of Albany Karma Thegsum Choling, a Tibetan Buddhist group. "But I was so excited about the Dalai Lama coming to Albany that I just couldn't help it. I bought tickets." As it turn…”
 * 10) April 12, 2009 Week In Review:SOME OF THE TOP STORIES IN THE CAPITAL REGION Section: Capital Region, Page: B8 "Dalai Lama cancels scheduled visit to Albany" "The Dalai Lama canceled his scheduled April appearances in Albany.  Times Union Publisher George R. Hearst III, president of the University at Albany Foundation, a fundraising arm of UAlbany, one of several places where the Dalai Lama had been scheduled to appear, said he received an e-mail about the cancellation from a representative of the Dalai Lama. The Times Union received a similar e-mail. Negative press reports surrounding NXIVM as a sponsor of the events "caused them to rethink the appropriateness of the visit," Hearst said. The Dalai Lama's April 18 to 22 appearances were to be presented by the Ethical Humanitarian Foundation. Its trustees and the event organizers, Sara and Clare Bronfman, are affiliated with NXIVM, which conducts personal-growth training courses. Keith Raniere, EHF's "conceptual founder," is the founder of NXIVM.
 * 11) April 18, 2009 DALAI LAMA'S CHANGE OF HEART: “Decision to visit Albany follows meeting with group, Page: B The Dalai Lama had been scheduled to appear today through Wednesday in Albany. He canceled those appearances because of negative publicity connected to the sponsoring organization, a Dalai Lama representative wrote in an e-mail Friday. Yet days after scrubbing his April appearances in Albany, the Dalai Lama agreed to give a public talk May 6 at the Palace Theatre sponsored by the same organization, the Ethical Humanitarian Foundation (the World Ethical Foundations Consortium is an EHF initiativ…”
 * 12) April 19, 2009, Opinion Colum HELLO (OR GOODBYE), DALAI, Page: B1 "The exiled spiritual leader of Tibet had been scheduled to appear at the Albany arena in a lecture that came with ticket prices that ranged from $52 to $112. The University at Albany was scheduled to host several events during the Dalai Lama's April visit, an arrangement that two other regional schools -- including Raniere's alma mater, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute -- took a pass on.  The Dalai Lama's representatives cancelled the initial visit two weeks ago. But last week, the World Ethical Foundations Consortium -- which lists Raniere as "conceptual" founder and the Bronfman sisters as co-founders -- announced the Dalai Lama will appear at Albany's Palace Theatre on Wednesday, May 6. Clare Bronfman initially approached Times Union Center chief Bob Belber about the new date, only to learn that the site was already booked for a show by the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. Instead, the Dalai Lama will take part in what could turn into a public relations circus. Don't get me wrong: I would heartily like to see the Buddhist leader come to Albany. His grace and the personal example of his stand against China's criminal occupation of Tibet offer an example or moral force that New York's capital city could use. So for the Dalai Lama's sake as well as ours, I hope the Palace appearance remains locked in despite the continued involvement of people I consider to be of dubious merit to his reputation."
 * 13) April 20, 2009 News DALAI LAMA EXPLAINS WHY HE WILL COME TO ALBANY By BRIAN ETTKIN, Staff writer Housed at the Dalai Lama Organization's website, http://www.phayul.com. (http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=24492/news/article.aspx?id=24492)

Yet days after scrubbing his April appearances in Albany, the Dalai Lama agreed to give a public talk May 6 at the Palace Theatre sponsored by the same organization, the Ethical Humanitarian Foundation (the World Ethical Foundations Consortium is an EHF initiative).

Lobsang Nyandak, representative of His Holiness the Dalai Lama to the Americas, explained the Dalai Lama's change of heart in an e-mail:

"A delegation from the World Ethical Foundation Consortium recently met with His Holiness the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala to discuss His Holiness's proposed visit to Albany, which adverse publicity had caused to be postponed," Nyandak wrote. "The delegation expressed sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused by their association with the Albany plans. They took the opportunity to clarify the background to the allegations that had been made against them and explained that their basic outlook is rooted in a proper sense of ethics based on truth, contentment and giving help to those in need.

"His Holiness expressed his appreciation of their views and suggested that if the allegations against them are unfounded, as they claim, they should exert themselves to clear their names. Otherwise, they should admit their mistakes and undertake not to repeat them in future.

"His Holiness emphasized the necessity of acting truthfully and transparently in whatever you do.

"Taking everything into consideration, His Holiness feels committed to supporting the expression of worthy ideals. Therefore, he has agreed to visit Albany on May 6th where he will give a public talk."

The EHF's and WEFC's co-founders, Sara and Clare Bronfman, the Seagram liquor heiresses, are affiliated with NXIVM, a Colonie-based company that conducts personal-growth training courses. Keith Raniere, the EHF's and WEFC's "conceptual founder," is the founder of NXIVM.

Critics say NXIVM (pronounced NEX-ee-um) is a cult-like organization that employs psychologically damaging mind-control techniques. Raniere's supporters say those accusations are unfounded. Numerous media accounts in recent years have pointed to the controversy surrounding Raniere and NXIVM.

Asked if the EHF, the Bronfmans, NXIVM, or its subsidiaries was making a charitable contribution to the Dalai Lama or a cause of his choosing, Nyandak wrote no, "nor does his Holiness charge fees or receive offerings for any events that he takes part."

Any proceeds from the Dalai Lama's appearances are "used for charitable and other purposes as per His Holiness' guidance," Nyandak wrote in a second e-mail when asked for clarification.

Clare Bronfman, the WEFC's event organizer, didn't immediately return calls to her cellphone Friday.

Sean Allen, the marketing manager for the 2,800-seat Palace, said he expects ticket information to be available early next week.

Brian Ettkin can be reached at 454-5457 or by e-mail at bettkin@timesunion.com
 * 1) April 22, 2009, News DALAI LAMA INFO OUT TODAY Page: A2 “Palace Theatre marketing manager Sean Allen said he expects ticket information and the time for the Dalai Lama's public talk in Albany on May 6 at the Palace to be released today. The Dalai Lama is scheduled to speak on compassionate ethics in difficult times as a guest of the World Ethical Foundations Consortium. The Dalai Lama had canceled April 18-22 appearances at the Times Union Center, the University at Albany and The College of St. Rose because of negative publicity connected to the WEFC, a Dalai Lama representative wrote in an e-mail to the Times Union on Friday. The WEFC's co-founders, Sara and Clare Bronfman, are affiliated with NXIVM, a Colonie-based company that conducts personal-growth training courses. Keith Raniere, the WEFC's "conceptual founder," is the founder of NXIVM.  Critics say NXIVM (pronounced NEX-ee-um) is a cult-like organization that employs psychologically damaging mind-control techniques. Raniere's supporters say those accusations are unfounded. Numerous media accounts in recent years have pointed to the controversy surrounding Raniere and NXIVM. The Dalai Lama rescheduled an appearance in Albany after a WEFC delegation recently visited him in Dharamsala, India.
 * 2) May 7, 2009, A MESSAGE OF WISDOM, OPTIMISM: "At a news conference in the Crowne Plaza before his talk at the Palace Theatre (the DL)delivered gentle wisdom...He sidestepped a question about his appearance in Albany, which was sponsored by the controversial group NXIVM, which some have labeled a cult. "I had an invitation, so I accepted," he said...Clare Bronfman, one of the organizers of the Dalai Lama's visit, said: "I think it's a wonderful occasion and the whole city is abuzz." The Dalai Lama's appearance is sponsored by the Ethical Humanitarian Foundation (the World Ethical Foundations Consortium is an EHF initiative). The EHF's and WEFC's co-founders, Clare Bronfman and her sister, Sara,....are affiliated with NXIVM, a Colonie-based company that conducts personal-growth training courses. Keith Raniere, the EHF's and WEFC's "conceptual founder," is the founder of NXIVM. Raniere was at the Crowne Plaza. (Quoted attendees seemed very happy.)
 * 3) May 7, 2009 DALAI LAMA'S MESSAGE COMES THROUGH, Page: A9 “ALBANY -- Because of the 14th Dalai Lama's heavy Tibetan accent and soft-spoken voice, and the lower volume at the back of the Palace Theatre, it was often hard to hear what the renowned spiritual leader was saying during his public talk here Wednesday.... Palace General Manager Chris Gould estimated the event was about 200 tickets…ALBANY -- Because of the 14th Dalai Lama's heavy Tibetan accent and soft-spoken voice, and the lower volume at the back of the Palace Theatre, it was often hard to hear what the renowned spiritual leader was saying during his public talk here Wednesday. Several patrons used binoculars to try to read his lips....the event was about 200 tickets short of a sellout of the 2,600 available seats....The Dalai Lama...sat on a leather armchair...as he shared wit and wisdom...to his left sat Bishop Howard Hubbard; event organizers Sara and Clare Bronfman; and Mayor Jerry Jennings....The Dalai Lama presented each with a khata, a ceremonial scarf. To his right was his translator ...he addressed why he rescheduled a visit to Albany after a delegation from event organizer the World Ethical Foundations Consortium visited him in India, following the cancellation of his previously scheduled April 18-22 visit because of negative publicity connected to the WEFC. The Dalai Lama said after observing and speaking to the delegation he concluded they care about ethics...."It is my moral responsibility to support any movement" that cares about ethics, he said...one can't believe everything presented by the media, the Dalai Lama said, gesturing as if his nose were growing like Pinocchio's. "Where there be doubt, make clear," the Dalai Lama said, referring to the WEFC, whose conceptual founder, Keith Raniere, is the founder of NXIVM. "All your work must be transparent."...Raniere came on stage to receive a khata from the Dalai Lama near the event's end....Clare Bronfman, co-founder of the WEFC along with her sister, Sara...told the audience the WEFC lost $142,749 on the event because of the earlier cancellation..."I apologize we have no gifts in that way," Clare Bronfman told the Dalai Lama on stage. The Dalai Lama replied he doesn't accept nor want money for public talks or teachings...Attendees questioned why finances were a point of emphasis....(an attendee said that)...a financial accounting was done the three other times he saw the Dalai Lama speak, though not as overtly as at this event....I find the ending rather embarrassing. I'm not sure that's the time for the accounting of this event," said (another attendee).
 * 4) The Daily Gazette
 * Daily Gazette, The (Schenectady, NY) May 7, 2009 Column: ALBANY Title:Event is no money maker Author: JUSTIN MASON Gazette Reporter Edition: Schenectady/Albany; Final Section: A: Front Page -> A6
 * This article gives more detail about what Claire said after the event, and other details not found in the TU. It says that Claire told everyone @2,600 people gathered there that event lost $142,749.  She apologized to the DL and said that "We have nothing to send you back with." instead of a donation to a cause of the DL's choosing as they had planned to do.  She blamed the New York-based Office of Tibet for canceling the orignially scheduled Times Union Center event in April 2009.
 * This article also confirms that the Dalai Lama explained during his speech that it was he that canceled it because of "allegations" that concerned him enough to decline. The article explains that in early April, the Dalai Lama's office had "indicated negative publicity was at the root of the cancelation", and that reports had come out about the connection between Sara and Clare Bronfman and Keith Raniere and NXIVM and alleged brainwashing and acting like a cult.  The article mentions the Metroland article as an example.  The Dalai Lama told everyone that felt compelled to further investigate and had arranged a meeting with the organizers, who convinced him to change his mind.  He scolded the media, saying "Media people should have a long nose. Long as an elephant nose." and said the media hadn't investigated deeply enough.  He told the media to meet with WEF organizers "face-to-face" and to be honest and unbiased assessments. "Not biased as Chinese propaganda." People laughed. KR doesn't seem to have sat in the audience or on stage because he just came on stage once and accepted a scarf from the Dalai Lama.  A group of people in the front few rows cheered and applauded KR.
 * Copyright (c) 2009 The Daily Gazette Co. All Rights Reserved.
 * Record Number: 1280A77672277658

From www.leagal.com

 * 1) Case decision: NXIVM v. FAYE DONES and NXIVM v WOOLHOUSE | http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In%20BCO%2020111025873.xml&docbase=CSLWAR3-2007-CURR <-- NEW!
 * 2) NXIVM v. ROSS | http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=2004835364F3d471_1789.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006

BLP and notability issues
I just tidied up some WP:BLP issues, namely uncited claims seemingly asserting notability, claims about third parties (was approaching WP:COATRACK), and WP:BLPSPS (self-serving/third parties/large basis). I'm concerned that at least half of the background section, namely the passage about IQ, is not notable. It doesn't seem this subject was the object of substantial media coverage. We've got a single contemporary source – a human interest article now hosted on the NXIVM website – and one other from much after the fact. If his IQ really made him notable at all, references should be readily available. If his IQ is not notable, and if it has nothing to do with his notability, it should be removed. JFHJr (㊟) 14:09, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Please stick around, you might see something else you'd like to do here. Chrisrus (talk) 03:39, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Another WP:BLP/WP:V issue: I've been looking at some of the claims on the sourcing of claims about this subject's IQ. I'm having a very hard time finding any WP:RS on the claim to a Guinness listing, and what's offered currently is:

''As a young student, Raniere attracted media attention for his high IQ scores and his academic achievements at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. In 1988, a test developed by New York philosopher Ron Hoeflin and printed in Omni magazine placed his IQ at between 188 and 194 (Hoeflin confirms the result). The score is said to have landed him in the 1989 Guinness Book of World Records in the category of "Highest IQ" .'' based on

The source may ultimately have been from the following article, which gives context indicating it was a claim by the subject about a future listing:

However, neither edition – and  – that I found seems to contain such an entry (Raniere should appear where Marilyn vos Savant in fact does, or at least on the page). The source is probably correct as far as Hoeflin and claims elsewhere about Mega, his IQ association. So I think in this case the claims about this subject's Guinness mentions fail WP:V and need not be repeated here. I'll remove until someone can offer verification by Guinness.


 * Here it is: . Seems to be a different edition of some kind, but legit. ScottAllenOnline (talk) 04:56, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

I'll also remove the unsupported claim that the subject received media attention in connection with Rensselaer. I realize it's written in Maclean's, but since it repeated the apparently unsubstantiated Guinness claim, and since there's no actual media coverage cited, the claim should go until it's better supported by a WP:RS. Finally, I'm removing the entirely unsupported PhD-level math course claims until it can be supported by a reliable source. JFHJr (㊟) 06:46, 17 November 2011 (UTC) -
 * He didn't "attract attentinon as a young student". He graduated in the early 80's and, if you believe his father, spent most of the 80's "drifting", or if you listen to Barbara Bushey, being involved in different multi-level marketing programs, Amway or something.  The first time he was in the paper was in the late 80's, the "Local man has a lot on his mind" article, the earliest we have.  He'd long been out of school by then.  There was also an accompanying piece in the Life section on the same day where we got to look at some of the questions.  One of them was "Heel is to Achilles as box is to (blank)"  Another was, what's the summer version of hibernation?  I thought the answer might have been "torpor".  But it said they didn't know the answer and never would.  Wow, that was a long time ago.  Funny, we were all so proud of him then, so anxious to see what great things he would achieve.  Then everyone forgot about him.  I forgot his name, but remembered im and the the questions for a long time.
 * So still there was no real notablity until the early 90's, when all of the Consumer's Buyline started to come out. It was a somewhat big story.  He orignally came to any kind of significant media attention for the collapse of CB. As soon as the DA started looking into it, he shut it down and it collapsed.  Please refer to the Times Union Collection, above.  Treat me as the research librarian, if you want something or need any help it should be there but I'll get you what you need.  Chrisrus (talk) 14:50, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Recent edits
Why have none of the recent edits had anything to do with what the WP:RSes have to say about this topic? All recent edits are based on non-WP:RS sources. Please, someone revert this stuff and agree to do nothing but report to the readers what the WP:RSes say about the topic. That's the rule, and it's there for good reasons. Please everyone who edits this article, please familiarize yourself with the sources before editing. How can you edit this article beyond a few cosmetic edits if you don't know what the sources say? This article is no WP:GOOD! Chrisrus (talk) 09:26, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Google Scholar Patent Search used as a citation
This article offers as a source a Google Scholar Patent search for "Keith Raniere", all of which seemed clearly him and not someone else by that name.

Intelligent switch: one invention or many?
Most of those hits, however, appeared to me to be the same "intelligent switching" thing over and over and over. I don't know what that means or the difference between them all, nor could I tell if they were granted patents or patents pending, or the difference between them all, it seemed to be somehow re-patenting the same thing over and over and over. Can you be confident saying that he has "many technological" patents, or is this intelligent switching just one thing?

Intelligent switching: Has it ever been used?
If no one uses it, wouldn't that be a failed invention? I mean, it's all well and good to patent something, but Edison isn't a famous inventor for having patents so much as inventions. The phone changed the world, but if someone has a patent on internet switching system that never gets used, he's not an inventor or an inventor of any significance unless it gets used or has some impact on something.

Atheletic track roof: real thing, or dream?
This I assume is the source of your claim that he has invented architectual things. Another patent he has is a sort of extendable-roof thing for atheletic tracks. Again, has it ever been built or used? I mean, is one an architectual inventor if you patent some fantasy of a thing by simply applying to the patent office, paying his fees or whatever it is that you have to do to get a patent on a thing, and it's never made into a real thing, are you an inventor in your wikipedia bio lede subject complement definition of who you are? Patent offices only check that your application is novel. That doesn't make an idea economically viable, feasable, work properly, work at all, or otherwise be a good invention or the kind of a thing that would justify referring to the person as "an inventor". Like I could go jogging and imagine a solid diamond running surface, but if it's a bad idea am I an inventor of any importance just because I'm granted a patent?

Entrance-exchange structure: Some kind of gambling game
This, by far, I'm sure you'll agree, is the most concerning or alarming "thing" he has patented: an elaborate scheme for enticing people into a an elaborate casino game againt the "house", which is slanted of course for the house to make money. Does it seem consistant with what one of the most ethical people in the world would do?

Wikipedia doesn't seem to know what an "enterance-exchange structure" is. Should it? You have said that his patents are related to his business. Is this a description of the idea behind NXIVM? There should be no notable referent which doesn't have an article on Wikipedia. "Entrance-exchange structure"? Is the term unique to him? C'mon, feel free to speculate, what do you think it is?

Sashes
And finally, I found that he had patents on each of the NXIVM sashes. Makes sense that the business should copyright on those, but when we call him an inventor, will the reader understand something like sashes? Why did it show up in the google scholar patent search, you can patent a sash? I'd've thought that a sash would be the kind of thing one would copyright, not patent. But then again, I've never seen a sash quite like those. Should we tell the reader that he invented sashes used in his business as motivational awards?

Rational Inquiry
I didn't find the patent for Rational Inquiry but I'd like to. It's what I expected you meant when you said his patents were related to his business, but there is still no example to support this. Is it true that "rational inquiry" is a thing, that it belongs to him or it, and if so can you say that it's patented?

Please anyone feel free to reply, investigate, and report anything about the topic of his patents. Chrisrus (talk) 19:32, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Continuation
This thread was brought up to me by Chrisrus. my original intention with calling him an "inventor" came from a seminar on youtube where it mentions "In Lak'ech".. which it says he founded. looking through the google scholar search brings up the "Sleep guidance system and related methods" and "Method and apparatus for improving performance" as inventions. MinorColossal (talk) 00:13, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

A few comments on this article
This series will be appearing in the Times-Union newspaper over the next few weeks and should be reviewed carefully.

I have not reviewed our article's history in sufficient detail to understand how it got to the current state, but this article on Keith Raniere is very weak. It does not even mention many important episodes in his biography, and contains not even a hint of criticism. I have been gently critical of Chrisrus for editing this entry and the NXIVM entry while acknowledging himself as a 'hater' of the subject, but he does make the valid point that the entry should not be edited by fans alone, either. And if this entry is any indication, even if Chrisrus is a highly POV editor with an agenda, well, he's not had any real impact here.

I don't want this article to turn into a mere reflection of the negative press about Raniere, nor a laundry list of tabloid-style negative speculation. There's unfortunately a lot of that, as opposed to substantive criticism (of where there is some), in the reliable sources. NPOV requires us to not simply be transcription monkeys writing down every random speculation that has appeared, but rather to exercise thoughtful editorial judgment to present a balanced and informative picture. We are currently completely failing in that mission.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:09, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Have you been able to find someone to work on it? Chrisrus (talk) 18:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Sweet Jesus, among other things, that Times Union series has damning evidence that Raniere had sex with numerous underage teens. I've attempted to fix this article a few times before, but Raniere's scrubbers always come back.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">has<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">spoken  15:54, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Jimbo, this is Milowent. As I recall, and Milo, please correct any aspect of what follows, Milowent came to see this article in order to help moderate an apparent dispute, with no previous knowledge or background about the subject.  He then took a brief look at the available WP:RSes upon which this article may be based and it wasn't very long before Milo arrived at the conviction that he is a cult leader and reacted with understandable concern or alarm.  He has no connection to me, the John Tighe sockpuppets, the area, KR or NXM, but wants the article to summarize the important points in the sources for our readers.
 * Milo, thank you for caring about these articles. For complicated but not particularly hard to understand reasons, I will not be editing the mainspace.  However, I also have good news.  The complex of users responsible for the problems with these articles has been caught sockpuppeting and banned.  This means you are free to edit the article without interference from them.  I hope you will be motivated to do so.  Please also help to recruit other editors to work on it.  I promise to do whatever I can from the talk page and such.  Perhaps we could stratagize, or work on an outline here on the talk page.  Or I would add a "to do" list here.  Please be WP:BOLD but not wreckless.  For example, there is no reason to go directly to the sexual stuff right if we don't think it would be the best strategy. Chrisrus (talk) 21:05, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Chris, I will see what I can do. The sexual stuff really is only a symptom, albeit an eye-grabbing one for newspaper readers, it should only be treated in a broader context.  My inclination is to keep this article shorter rather than longer, with sufficient citation for interested readers, to make it easier to manage.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">has<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">spoken  04:05, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent. A short article would contain a fair summary of the "Consumer's Buyline" affair.  We want the article to say the same things that the WP:RSes say about CB in an appropriately encyclopedic way.  I think I have everything on this talk page. Chrisrus (talk) 06:31, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Milowent, I welcome your work on this article. But I caution you to be very very careful to go no further than reliable sources do, particularly with respect to this: "damning evidence that Raniere had sex with numerous underage teens".  I don't know the laws of New York at all, but presumably what you mean by 'underage' is beneath the legal age of consent, and in most states that's a pretty serious crime.  Given that there has been no arrest, no conviction, etc., we have to treat such allegations with extreme care.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:42, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. Maybe I shouldn't have even commented on that one piece even on this talk page, but the article shocked me.  If this part of the story even gets mentioned in the article, the word "underage" would probably not be proper to use.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">has<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">spoken  16:09, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Fox23 News
Local Fox News affiliate report "Kindlon calling on AG's office to investigate DA abuse of power" link worked |Link http://www.fox23news.com/news/local/story/Kindlon-calling-on-AGs-office-to-investigate-DA/78OHS1utgECZn_0d0xSoXg.cspx retrieved 04:15, 21 February 2012: Chrisrus (talk) 04:37, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Summary, feel free to edit
This news report states that Lee Kindlon, an Albany defense attorney running for the Albany County district attorney against the incumbant, David Sores, has accused Sores of illegally leaking Grand Jury information to NXIVM officials in order to help them silence a former member. He said Sores had knowing allowed a NXIVM member to work on a case being prepared against NXIVM which included testimony from the former member accusing NXIVM of illegal behavior, and that by doing so, helped NXIVM get the case dismissed. He called on Sores to release information regarding the case, and said "David Soares allowed his office to be infiltrated by an interested civilian witness who then manipulated the grand jury process for her own ends." Sores didn't call Fox23 back by press time.

Please help collect WAMC reports in this section
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wamc/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1501604
 * 1) A Dalai Lama Preview (aired 5/4/09) Sara Bronfman/Joe Donahue Conversation (2009-05-04)
 * 1) The Dalai Lama to Visit Albany Dave Lucas (2009-03-17) http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wamc/news.newsmain/article/0/0/1481971/WAMC.New.York.News/The.Dalai.Lama.to.Visit.Albany
 * 2) The Dalai Lama in Albany Dave Lucas (2009-05-06) http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wamc/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1502726

Artvoice items
Buffalo area news and culture weekly Artvoice has written about KR and NXIVM.


 * 1) last modified 11/23/2010 http://artvoice.com/issues/v9n47/week_in_review/seven_days retreived Chrisrus (talk) 20:23, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

"NXIVM Nexus" by Geoff Kelly

The week in review item for the week of 11/23/2010

A formerly high-ranking member of the Albany-based NXIVM, Susan Dones are sueing each other. NXIVM "ostensibly trades in personal fulfillment training but has all the hallmarks of a cult." NXIVM founder Keith Raniere "is a truly strange agent". S.D. claims Raniere uses NXIVM to seduce women and diverts company funds to support his gambling habit.

Kelly explains why this is of interst to western New Yorkers. Raniere clients Clare and Sara Bronfman invited many important Buffalians to attend the Dalai Lama event, which they’d paid with Raniere’s guidance. Kelly names these influential Buffalo people including area political operative Steve Pigeon’s Niagara Falls sidekick Gary Parenti, who Kelly states "is the connection between these Western New Yorkers and the Bronfmans, and, by extension NXIVM and Raniere." Pigeon introduced the sisters to Frank Parlato, who with Raniere got the sisters to finance a disasterous failed real estate deal which resulted in lawsuits in Buffalo courts.

See [] #10 article in the Buffalo News article for more information about Parlato v. NXIVM case.


 * 1) 2/22/2012 http://artvoice.com/issues/v11n8/week_in_review/odds_and_ends retreived Chrisrus (talk) 20:23, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Odds & Ends by Geoff Kelly calls NXIVM a "cultish group" and states:

"(Buffalo Democratic party operative Steve) Pigeon and several of his political associates—including Niagara Falls developer Frank Parlato, who became embroiled in a lawsuit for his trouble—have had close dealings with NXIVM and the Bronfmans, who have insinuated themselves deeply into the political fabric of the state capitol."

Collect Troy Record articles here
http://www.troyrecord.com/articles/2009/05/07/news/doc4a025c5097861433033602.txt?viewmode=2 Dalai Lama fills Palace with message of compassion Published: Thursday, May 07, 2009 By Tom Caprood

The Dalai Lama was invited to the city by the World Ethical Foundations Consortium, which was co-founded by Sara and Clare Bronfman, heiresses to the Seagram’s liquor fortune, and based on the beliefs of Keith Raniere. Raniere is the founder of NXIVM, a Colonie-based organization which offers “programs that provide the philosophical and practical foundation necessary to acquire and build the skills for success,” according to the company’s Web site. However, NXIVM’s operation has been criticized for years and has been labeled as a cult-like organization in several media reports, including in-depth features that have appeared in Metroland.

The Dalai Lama addressed this issue briefly by answering one of the questions submitted to him regarding the initial cancellation and rescheduling of his appearance. Gyatso said that the cancellation had come after his staff learned of certain allegations surrounding the organization which invited him to the area. Upon further investigation, he and his staff determined there was no problem and decided to accept the invitation.

“Media people should have long noses — as long as an elephant nose,” said Gyatso, who noted that a newspaper report may have been biased in the matter. “It’s very important to make clear to the public what is wrong — they must be very honest, unbiased, and objective. If you come face to face to talk, and do more investigation, the truth will become more clear.”

Unlike other reports of this event, this article does not mention anything about the DL scolding him and it for a lack of openness, nor does it discuss Bronfman's statements to the DL to the crowd about being sorry that the event lost so much money. Chrisrus (talk) 20:27, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what statements you are referring to in this last sentence. Do you have a source for that?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:39, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course, it's all here if you'd just scroll up. At one point, I tried to collect those articles from different sources that dealt specifically with the DL's visit.  Please look it over: Talk:Keith_Raniere, but a few excerpts:

TU "Where there be doubt, make clear," the Dalai Lama said, referring to the WEFC, whose conceptual founder, Keith Raniere, is the founder of NXIVM. "All your work must be transparent."... The Gazette reported that Claire told everyone @2,600 people gathered there that event lost $142,749.00. She apologized to the DL and said that "We have nothing to send you back with." instead of a donation to a cause of the DL's choosing as they had planned to do. She blamed the New York-based Office of Tibet for canceling the orignially scheduled Times Union Center event in April 2009. But don't take anything from me. Scroll up and read all about it! Chrisrus (talk) 16:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

User:Laundry Week

 * The latest sock, fyi. Trust me, no one in the world joins wikipedia to edit the Raniere or NXIVM articles unless they have some interest in them.  I'm apparently cursed to have run across them, but I'm taking on the unbiased job of policing these articles.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">has<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">spoken  02:22, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You're right. Stay frosty.  You can do it.   Like Mr. Spock. Play it like your name was Nemoy. Chrisrus (talk) 05:04, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello Laundry Week and welcome to Wikipedia!

Thank you for sharing our interest in improving this article!

Please have a look around this page at some of the WP:RSes, are you familiar with them? I have tried to summarize some of them, did I do a good job? Is there information in any of them which we should transfer to the article? Are you aware of others? If so, please do share. What do they say? Chrisrus (talk) 05:15, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Patent case lost
According to http://www.corpcounsel.com/home/id=1202766913677/SelfHelp-Guru-Takes-Expensive-Hit-in-Patent-Suit?mcode=1202617073467&curindex=5&slreturn=20160809080006

Raniere was unable to get sole ownership of a patent for an "intelligent switching system for voice and data" that he had asserted against Microsoft Corp. and AT&T Inc.

The case is going to cost Raniere as much as $1 million in legal fees.

U.S. District Judge Barbara M.G. Lynn explained that Raniere had given “untruthful testimony” and shown "a pattern of obfuscation and bad faith." Chrisrus (talk) 15:20, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Birth date?
How does someone listed in 1950 births attend Rensselaer Polytechnic institute at age 16... in 1981? I sure wish I could do that kind of time travel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.227.52.206 (talk) 01:26, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Some of these dates are wrong. I updated this information based on personal knowledge of/acquaintance with Keith Raniere. He was accepted into RPI at 16 years old and turned 17 on August 26 just before his freshman year at RPI began (1977-1978). His mother died while he was attending RPI. He left school for a year before returning to graduate in 1982. He was enrolled in Amway before he began Consumers Buyline. Pirelliselixer (talk) 12:36, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Dalai Llama visit cancelled due to negative press
Rainiere did not successfully bring the Dalai Llama to speak at an event, the trip was cancelled due to negative press surrounding NXIVM.

Merger Discussion
Request received to merge articles: Keith Raniere into NXIVM; dated: November/2017. Proposer's Rationale: Raniere is not independently notable beyond NXIVM. Should merge to NXIVM (or vice versa) with an appropriate redirect. This revives a previous merge proposal to which no one responded. Discuss here. Rhode Island Red (talk) 01:55, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. I'm all for it. The NXIVM article has much more information than this one, so my vote is to merge Keith Raniere to NXIVM with a redirect there. Kerdooskis (talk) 19:34, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge I agree that Keith Raniere's alma mater is not notable beyond NXIVM. I also suggest merging with NXIVM, even though Keith Raniere has been arrested and is currently facing charges of sex trafficking and forced labour, these charges relate to his involvement with NXIVM. -- Waddie96 (talk) 14:34, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge. Raniere does not seem to be notable independently of NXIVM. Rhode Island Red (talk) 17:27, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge per others. Daniel Case (talk) 21:30, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: has the subject of the article been indicted or not? First the article says he did, then it continues to state that he's "facing charges", which last time i checked means that the trial isn't over yet.-- Farang Rak Tham   (Talk) 21:50, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


 * If the action is noncontroversial, be bold. (not watching, please )  czar  00:04, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Merger has been completed. -- Waddie96 (talk) 11:55, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Merger completed

 * Waddie96, the redirect was reverted as an editor disputes whether any content was merged. I've tagged the page as in the process of merging. Please merge in the content so details of Raniere's bio are not lost in the process. Fences  &amp;  Windows  10:26, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I was that user who reverted that content removal. The reason was because much (at least in my opinion) of the content from this article had not been transfered to the NXIVM article. I have since transfered the information to the NXIVM article as can be seen with this edit. selfworm <small style="color: #FDD017">Talk ) 17:20, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I have a question about this merger. The way that I see it, there are three primary aspects of the Raniere/NXIVM articles. There's (1) the natural person Raniere, (2) the corporate person NXIVM, and (3) the scandal. When dealing with all things related to Raniere, the article must meet the strict requirement of biographies of living people, which will limit much of the information that may be taken from even professional media when taking about the scandal (context matters!). Such restrictions do not apply when talking about the corporate person NXIVM. By merging the article on Raniere into the article on NXIVM we would be conflating the natural person Raniere with the corporate person NXIVM. So after the merger, wouldn't we potentially be limiting ourselves from writing about much of the scandal since we'd have to worry violating some aspect of Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living people where as with two separate articles (on Raniere and NXIVM) we wouldn't have to worry so much about violating the policy on biographies of living people? selfworm <small style="color: #FDD017">Talk ) 17:36, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The discretion on info about living persons extends to any article that contains such info, even if it's only a single sentence. The merge is largely irrelevant in that regard. This article didn't suddenly become a BLP with the merger. But even if it did, the same level of discretion in regards to writing about living persons would still apply. Lizard  (talk) 19:06, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you! selfworm <small style="color: #FDD017">Talk ) 19:59, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Not Merge with NXIVM?
I suggest we do not Merge Keith Raniere article with NXIVM article. Within the context of their new and present 2018 legal challenges, I'm re-opening this discuss as the previous 2017 discussion was closed.


 * Support. This is my proposal to not merge. I suggest two articles. One for NXIVM and one for Keith Raniere. Mainly because within the context of their present legal challenges, legally speaking according to the US laws, NXIVM is a corporation/company. In turn, this means NXIVM and Keith Raniere are two different legal entities. In other words, and translated to English, this means criminal charges may affect one entity without affecting the other entity. Read more.Francewhoa (talk) 05:27, 16 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Strong Support. Unmerge. With recent revelations (Allison Mack pleading guilty, A LOT of media focusing on the leader of the cult, etc.), there's enough notability for an article of his own. Obviously most sources focus on his alleged crimes (and for worries of WP:BLP we should treat them as such, as any crime suspect), but there's enough information in those WP:RS to make an entire biography of this guy and more. In my opinion it's pretty weird that Wikipedia doesn't have an article on the leader of one of the most famous cults right now, with the amount of celebrities involved, everyone's going to wonder who this guy is and there not being a Wiki article on him is pretty embarrassing. There's not even a section on the NXIVM titled by his name. Per WP:NOTTEMPORARY I'd say seeing this guy had an article about him for years there's no case about not being article about him right now. --Loganmac (talk) 11:28, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Revert by User:24.31.22.101
Hi, please provide an explanation why you reverted the complete merger? Waddie96 (talk) 11:42, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Unmerge
With recent revelations (Allison Mack pleading guilty, A LOT of media focusing on the leader of the cult, etc.), there's enough notability for an article of his own. Obviously most sources focus on his alleged crimes (and for worries of WP:BLP we should treat them as such, as any crime suspect), but there's enough information in those WP:RS to make an entire biography of this guy and more. In my opinion it's pretty weird that Wikipedia doesn't have an article on the leader of one of the most famous cults right now, with the amount of celebrities involved, everyone's going to wonder who this guy is and there not being a Wiki article on him is pretty embarrassing. There's not even a section on the NXIVM titled by his name. Per WP:NOTTEMPORARY I'd say seeing this guy had an article about him for years there's no case about not being article about him right now. --Loganmac (talk) 11:28, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * There should be an article now, even if it was debatable at some point in the past. The problem with NXIVM and this article for many years had been Keith (or someone closely associated with him) editing it himself.  Back in 2011 I was editing NXIVM to say "IT'S A CULT" based on New York newspaper reports and then the cultists would chip away at it over time.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">has<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">spoken  12:07, 9 April 2019 (UTC)