Talk:Kenny McLean/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Jmorrison230582 (talk · contribs) 23:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Personal bias: First of all, it's good to see an article here about a Scottish footballer from outside one of the bigger clubs.

A few initial impressions:


 * It could do with a copy edit. eg1 "Kyle Faulds signed for Arbroath on as another loan", eg2 "18-year old, McLean made his debut on 17 October coming on as a substitute in 2-2 draw against Hamilton", eg3 the interchanging use of McLean (correct) and Mclean (not correct) in the playing style section.


 * The article is very confusing in terms of which division Arbroath were in during 2009–10. The lead says First, the Arbroath text says Second, then the St. Mirren part mentions Third Division playoffs. I think he was playing in the Second and Arbroath were relegated to the Third because they lost in the playoffs. From memory I think the correct name for the playoffs is for the higher, not lower, division.

Ok, I've fixed all of the above issues and I will do a full copy edit of the article after all other issues have been fixed. Adam4267 (talk) 00:12, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't fail any of the quick-fail tests so I will move on to a more detailed review below. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 23:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

This is a nice piece of work, but it still has some shortcomings with respect to the good article criteria.
 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * See my comments above about the need for a copy edit. The organisation of the article seems fine to me. The lead is short, but this is not inappropriate for a short article like this.
 * I have done the copy edit. Adam4267 (talk) 16:48, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Updated for the second opinion below. The lead needs to mention a bit about his style of play (one sentence) and perhaps his YPOTM award. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 17:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Adam4267 (talk) 18:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * I think the article is maybe a bit too positive towards McLean, or at least it is sympathetic to his point of view. For example, is there a justification for why he was omitted from the Scotland under-21 squad? Who was picked in his place, or did Billy Stark say anything? At present the article just gives his club manager's opinion on the subject. In terms of his importance to St. Mirren, hasn't he been in and out of their team? Okay, he is under 20 years old, but I recall it being suggested that he may be a luxury type player at times. The article isn't hopelessly biased, but I think representation of other viewpoints needs to be considered.
 * I don't think Stark came out and said anything about why he was ommitted and I have been able to find anything in the media analysing why he was ommitted. Although they do take the view that he should have been in the squad. Craig Levein did mention him in an interview but I can't find out what he said. In terms of wondering why he wasn't included, he had definitely been on brilliant form for St. Mirren and was/is probably one of their best players right now. The midfielders included for Scotland were Tom Cairney, Liam Kelly, David Wotherspoon and Scott Allan. He probably should have been picked over Allan. But maybe Stark thought he was to similar to Cairney and Allan was a different option? There isn't anything in the media about it though, so I can't include it. Adam4267 (talk) 01:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the article is maybe a bit too positive towards McLean, or at least it is sympathetic to his point of view. For example, is there a justification for why he was omitted from the Scotland under-21 squad? Who was picked in his place, or did Billy Stark say anything? At present the article just gives his club manager's opinion on the subject. In terms of his importance to St. Mirren, hasn't he been in and out of their team? Okay, he is under 20 years old, but I recall it being suggested that he may be a luxury type player at times. The article isn't hopelessly biased, but I think representation of other viewpoints needs to be considered.
 * I don't think Stark came out and said anything about why he was ommitted and I have been able to find anything in the media analysing why he was ommitted. Although they do take the view that he should have been in the squad. Craig Levein did mention him in an interview but I can't find out what he said. In terms of wondering why he wasn't included, he had definitely been on brilliant form for St. Mirren and was/is probably one of their best players right now. The midfielders included for Scotland were Tom Cairney, Liam Kelly, David Wotherspoon and Scott Allan. He probably should have been picked over Allan. But maybe Stark thought he was to similar to Cairney and Allan was a different option? There isn't anything in the media about it though, so I can't include it. Adam4267 (talk) 01:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * Well, there aren't any! Images of Kenny McLean may be available on Alasdair Middleton's photostream on Flickr. He has posted freely usable images of a few St. Mirren matches (that's where the main pictures of Gary Hooper and Anthony Stokes come from). If not, it won't break the nomination, but it would be nice to add one if possible.
 * I have looked for images but there just aren't any. Middleton does seem to go to quite a lot of St. Mirren matches so one will hopefully pop up soon enough. Adam4267 (talk) 00:40, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I have looked for images but there just aren't any. Middleton does seem to go to quite a lot of St. Mirren matches so one will hopefully pop up soon enough. Adam4267 (talk) 00:40, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * I'll place this on hold because I don't think it's that far away. Good luck improving the article over the next week or so. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 00:09, 4 December 2011 (UTC) The style issues have been largely resolved and I am happy to accept there are no freely usable images. I am minded to pass the article but I am concerned that it is (unintentionally) biased towards the subject. This may be due to a lack of source material, but I would like someone else to check the article for this reason. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 23:15, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok that's fine. Can I suggest leaving a message at the WikiProject Football talk page to get an opinion more quickly. Adam4267 (talk) 23:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok some changes have been made to try and resolve the neutrality issue. How does it look now? Adam4267 (talk) 18:08, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I don't think the material in the article carries any bias. I'm not too well acquainted with the topic though, but if anything is missing from coverage that goes to broad in coverage and focused parts of the review. On the other hand, I think that the article does not comply with WP:LEAD part of the MoS (GAR criterion 1b), and the lead might be expanded a little bit - it should be able to stand on its own as an article summary. Specifically, Style of play section material is completely absent from the lead.--Tomobe03 (talk) 16:24, 10 December 2011 (UTC)