Talk:Kent State University/Archive 1

Old Discussion/Comments
The main KSU campus is not quite what I'd consider an urban campus. Its setting compares to that of Ohio University (called a rural campus on WP), Miami University (a "small town campus"), University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (an "urban campus"), and other campuses set in cities of populations in the range of 20 000 to 40 000. Urban campuses would be more along the lines of the nearby University of Akron. Perhaps another, new term could be found to designate these campuses which aren't quite urban, but are a bit more bustling than small town and rural campuses? -- SwissCelt 00:15, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

I attended the KSU main campus for four years, and I'd agree with the above comment. Perhaps "college town" would be more appropriate? It's not really suburban, since both Akron and Cleveland are too far to really be considered the city, but it's not isolated enough to really consider it rural.

Actually, "today, Kent is the largest city in Portage County and according to the 1990 census, the population is 28,835." according to Kentohio.org The campus is certainly not urban, however the city is not tiny. I would also not say that it is rural, either. Northeast Ohio in general is a unique spread of suburban/urban growth. As the largest population center in the state, most of its cities are within 30min to one and a half hours drive from Cleveland. vkxmai 01:50, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I corrected the enrollment info. Here is my reference. DKS Article from 2005 vkxmai 04:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Recent deletions
I noted that many of the bulletpoints about notable programs at Kent State were recently deleted from this article. Would anyone like to comment on this? Maybe we can go through what was taken out and re-write them if they need it? --DangApricot 18:04, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Sports Teams
I recently added links to the section on Sports teams, but the links were taken out of about half of the sports. While I would say that a few of them could be combined,(i.e. Men's and Women's Basketball) I think that the partial link formatting looks bad. Reverting back to all linked until we can talk it through. Thanks, Stealthound 03:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I re-did them (I only removed duplicate links) because it isn't necessary to have multiple links to the same page on consecutive lines, like having both Men's Cross Country and Women's Cross Country linked to the Cross Country page. I think that looks bad. It makes it look like there are two separate articles on Men's and Women's Cross Country, when in reality there is only one article on Cross Country. I searched each sport listed there that had a listing for both men and women and only basketball and golf had separate articles. Only one link is necessary and it should only be on the word or phrase that best describes the link. For instance, in the case of Women's Basketball, there is an article titled "Women's basketball," so I formatted both words. In the case of "Men's Basketball," the article connected to it is simply "basketball," (it talks of the sport in general), so I formatted only basketball so there's no confusion. I also don't think it looks bad when you have only certain words link formatted...that's how the entire article looks and that's how all the pages on Wikipedia look...some words are formatted, while unimportant words are not. Like I said, it makes it a little clearer where the link will lead you should you follow it. You link format the words that have legitimate links and that are closest to the title or subject of the ariticle linking to. --JonRidinger 07:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

May 4, 1970
There is a small detail in Kent State's history that received barely a peep in this article: FOUR STUDENTS WERE SHOT! How in the world could you omit such an important event?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.247.5.125 (talk) 09:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC).


 * There is an entire article on the Kent State shootings which is why there is not a detailed account of the events around May 4 in the article on Kent State. It would be unnecessarily redundant.  There are many things that make Kent State what it is today, not just May 4.  It is by no means "omitted" from the Kent State article, but is treated as any other part of the history of the university, with a link to the main article on that event.  And actually, thirteen students were shot, four of them died.  --JonRidinger 01:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The shootings should be mentioned much more prominently in this article. While they are a small part of KSU's history, they are by far the most notable. When else has an Ohio university been on the front page of practically every newspaper in the world? Don&#39;t Be Evil (talk) 17:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * They are appropriately mentioned in the history section with their own subheading and a title to the main article, not to mention the template at the bottom of every KSU-related page. Since there is already an article about it, only a summary is needed here.  The history section as a whole does need expansion, the shootings section included.  My worry is that this page becomes dominated by the shootings and doesn't focus on the actual subject, which is Kent State University.  It is arguably the most notable event, but hardly the only notable event or aspect of the school.  --JonRidinger (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Location of food
no mention was made regarding the location of vending machines with free doughnuts —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.31.59 (talk) 09:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

Recent Edits
Honestly some of the stuff added to this article is an improvement but a litany of new pictures right in the middle (pictures are fine but there are like 40 pictures of buildings and they're right by the top, which is non-standard) is unnecessary, and some of the new text additions strike me as a little bit NPOV in some cases. Also, the section on Kent itself isn't needed as there is already a link to that article. Cwilli201 00:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the article seems to be getting cluttered and is unorganized. For the pictures, one suggestion would be to remove duplicate shots of the same building...for instance, I think I counted at least three pictures of the library in the daytime. The pics are GREAT, but too many can take away from the article.  There are some general organization things too, like maybe putting the picture gallery in the Student Life section (which has a list of all the dorms anyway) and merge the Administration Changes paragraph with the History section.  Also, I agree that the Kent, Ohio section really isn't needed since there is an entire article on Kent and several links to it in the article.  The pics used in that section are all aerials of the University anyway (not Kent in general), so they could still be used in other areas of the article.  I'd also like to see the History section expanded with additional pictures besides just the Kent State shootings one.  There is a lot more to KSU's history than just that event.  Look at other university articles for more ideas as well and for models of what this page could look like.--JonRidinger 08:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Changes
I've added some more info and organized some photos that were originally placed at the bottom. I'm beginning to learn how to do this editing stuff. If you have any questions let me know.


 * Thanks for all your work, especially the pictures. It has really added to the KSU article.  My only advice is to be careful to not just cut and paste paragraphs directly from a given website; take the info and write your own part of the article because Wikipedia has a rule that material copied directly from other websites will be deleted. --JonRidinger 16:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Good to know! Thanks

Fair use rationale for Image:Regionalksu.png
Image:Regionalksu.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Kent State University's Offical stance on the use of "Kent Campus" vs "main campus"
We recognize that Kent does not own or control the Wiki listing for Kent State University. But for those that are representing themselves as speaking for Kent, this is the official policy.

Please respect the Kent culture that you are purporting to represent!

-

From: Stamm, Ramona Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: referring to the Kent Campus

Since I’ve been with the university (16 years), it has always been our style to refer to the Kent Campus. We never use “main campus,” and always edit that phrase to Kent Campus. Ramona

EXCELLENCE in Action

Ramona Kelley Stamm Coordinator, Publications University Communications and Marketing Kent State University PO Box 5190 Kent, OH 44242-0001

160 Administrative Services Building Phone: 330-672-8511 Fax: 330-672-2047 Web: http://www.kent.edu/ucm/

"Kent campus"
This article is about Kent State University, though it does focus on the aspects of the Kent campus since the Kent campus is the main campus and center of the university and in theory each regional campus should have its own separate page (currently only two do). That said, using the phrase "Kent campus" is only necessary when physically differentiating from the regional campuses. Every academic program at the main campus is available to students at every campus, so it is correct to refer to them as "Kent State University" programs without the "Kent campus" phrase.


 * That is inaccurate. Not every academic program at the Kent Campus is available at the other campuses, and not every academic program at the regional campuses are available at the Kent Camupus
 * See below...each regional campus website claims that students at their campus can begin any of Kent State University's majors at their campus, even if that specific department is not present. That's not to say every program is available at every campus, even Kent. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Further, many of the social programs are not offered at the regional campuses, such as the Kent Interhall Council or anything related to the dorms for that matter since KSU does not operate housing at any other campus besides Kent. Even in athletics, the regional campuses don't compete in the NCAA, so the athletic department in Kent is the Kent State University athletic department.


 * True, but several of the other campuses do offer intercollegtiate athletics, and this article only addresses Kent Campus athletics.
 * If they do offer them, they are not mentioned on their respective campus's website. I do remember hearing that the regional campuses had teams that played each other and the "JV" teams from smaller schools like Mount Union or Case Western, but no mention is made on their own website about it. In any case, they don't have much notability anyway.  --JonRidinger (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

You'll note for all departments, they are never referred to on their own websites as "Kent campus" departments; only the regional campuses use their regional campus name with their own departments and even then they are still part of the same KSU academic college.


 * This is not true. There are programs that are only available at the regional campuses.
 * I believe I addressed that (notable programs at regional campuses should be mentioned), though it is worth noting that as far as I can find, each regional campus website says that students can begin "any of Kent State University's 282 majors" at their respective campus, even if that department is not present at that campus. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The article needs to present the fact that the Kent campus is the main campus and by far the largest; it's not "just another campus".


 * In the "Kent Speak" brochure given to all new employees, as well as disucssions and "corrections" from the President's Cabinet on down, Kent State Employees are told NEVER to refer to it as the "Main Campus." It is the Kent Campus and it is an eight campus system.  It is true that it is the largest and dominant campus, but please respect the university's culture.


 * That may be true within the Kent State system (I don't doubt it), but in relating it to those outside the "university culture" it is correct in referring to the Kent campus as the "main campus" since it is the administrative center and by far the largest campus. Remember, Wikipedia is to a worldwide audience, not just a KSU audience and not even just an American audience.  Also, as I noted on the KSU websites, the individual departments and colleges at KSU never refer to themselves as "KSU-Kent campus" departments or colleges. The media also never refers to the Kent campus specifically as the Kent campus (or even as the "main campus"), only as "Kent State University". The regional campuses, however, almost always have the campus name attached. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

It is also the administrative center of the University and for each academic college. It is understood by the reader that the article will mainly refer to the main campus, much like the article Ohio State University focuses mainly on the aspects of the main campus in Columbus.


 * Yes, but Kent isn't OSU.
 * I am aware of that, but in Wikipedia we look at other articles for consistencies, standards, and examples. The Ohio State article is an example of a university with a large central campus and attached regional campuses. It has nothing to do with whether OSU and KSU are the same, but how they are explained in their respective articles since they do have similarities.  I wouldn't be surprised if OSU also referred to their main campus within their system as the "Columbus campus," but outside of the OSU system, hardly anyone uses that term.  --JonRidinger (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

That's not to say regional campus departments and programs shouldn't be mentioned on this page, but not in detail since this page also includes multiple mentions of the regional campuses and has a short description of each one along with links. --JonRidinger (talk) 19:32, 25 June 2008 (UTC) P.S. I also changed "rural college town" back to "suburban college town" since the reference used on that classification says "suburban". A city of 28,000 on the edge of a metro area of nearly 3 million is hardly "rural".


 * If it was on the edge of an urban area, that would be true. But by most measures, it could be an exurb, at best.  It is not continuous with any urban area.
 * Kent is considered part of the Akron MSA and the Cleveland-Akron-Elyria CSA, which has nearly 3 million people, so it is on the edge of an urban area. Further, the source used on the line "campus" in the infobox identifies Kent State's campus as "suburban".  That's not to say that Kent is a "suburb" of Akron or Cleveland, but it certainly is suburban in its population and characteristics.  The source used trumps all of that anyway.  It is definitely not "rural". This was actually discussed awhile back on this very talk page.  --JonRidinger (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Kent's Stance on Kent Campus vs Main Campus
Although Kent does not own or control the content, if you are trying to speak accurately for and about Kent, please respect the Kent State University publication guidelines and policies for name usage.

From: Stamm, Ramona Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: referring to the Kent Campus Since I’ve been with the university (16 years), it has always been our style to refer to the Kent Campus. We never use “main campus,” and always edit that phrase to Kent Campus.

Ramona

EXCELLENCE in Action

Ramona Kelley Stamm Coordinator, Publications University Communications and Marketing Kent State University PO Box 5190 Kent, OH 44242-0001

160 Administrative Services Building Phone: 330-672-8511 Fax: 330-672-2047 Web: http://www.kent.edu/ucm/

--- —Preceding unsigned comment added by TerriThomas (talk • contribs) 19:30, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * As you said yourself, KSU does not control the content here. This statement only applies to Kent State University (she said "we never use..."), not necessarily articles about KSU.  In Wikipedia, because it is for a broad worldwide audience, it is more clear to use the broad term "main campus" to describe the Kent Campus since the Kent Campus is the main campus even if the University feels the need to not use that term.  In every publication I have read (newspapers, magazines, websites) that mentions Kent State the phrase "Kent Campus" is never used, but neither is "main campus" with rare exceptions.  For example, you wouldn't see "Researchers at Kent State University's Kent Campus..." in an article; no, it would simply say "Researchers at Kent State University..."  However, when the article is speaking about something that is part of a regional campus, the campus name is always included.  (See this article for an example.)  Now, in a Kent State University publication, "Kent Campus" might be included more frequently, but even then it is not always included, simply because a lot of what goes on at the Kent Campus applies to the entire university, even things like athletics.  Visit their website.  There are zero uses of the term "Kent Campus". --JonRidinger (talk) 21:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Getting 'State University' Status
There is a persistant and often repeated story among older faculty members that the county seat, Ravenna, was originally supposed to get the state university because of its realtive size and importance (at the time). But according to the story, friends of then Governor Davey, a member of one of the founding families of Kent, waylayed the men sent from Columbus at the Kent train station, supplied quite a good time in one of the downtown taverns, and secured the promise that the Kent Normal College would become Kent State University. While I have not seen this account in print... I have heard it from several 'reliable sources'. Has anyone else ever hear this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.96.106.130 (talk) 23:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It sounds like two stories are being mixed together here. While certainly prominent, the Daveys did not arrive in Kent until around 1880, so they are hardly one of Kent's "founding" families.   Aside from that, Ravenna and Kent in the early 20th century were virtually the same size as they constantly battled for title of largest city in the county up until around 1960, so Ravenna did not really have significant size or importance over Kent (besides simply being the county seat) in 1910 or 1935.  I have never heard that the state had any intention of starting an additional state university in Ravenna, especially in light of the fact that Kent State at the time was already a 4-year college (not simply a normal school...it was already "Kent State College" with Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Science degrees by the 1920's and had been "Kent State Normal School" since 1915) when it received University status along with Bowling Green.  Also, the only state committee I have ever heard or read about coming to Kent and being met at the train station was the site selection committee that came in 1910 to tour the 20 competing sites for the northeast Ohio normal school. They were met at the downtown train station by the Kent welcoming committee and later treated to a dinner in Twin Lakes.  Think about it: why would Governor Davey meet a group from Columbus in Kent when he was already in Columbus as governor?  See this site for Kent State's published history.  --JonRidinger (talk) 00:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Here is the story as told on the Tavern at Twin Lakes website: www.tatwinlakes.com, and also as my grandfather, Frank A. Merrill's grandson and longtime Kent resident Richard F. Foote, has relayed it to me:

"Tavern owner Richard Gressard’s great grandparents, Frank A. Merrill and Ida Haymaker Merrill, owned the two lakes and the adjacent golf course land until 1920 when it was sold and development took over. The Twin Lakes home of Frank A. Merrill played a very large role in the establishing of what is now Kent State University. In 1910, a governor’s commission came into the Kent and Ravenna area looking for a site on which to construct a normal school. The commission was scheduled to inspect sites in both Kent and Ravenna.

The members never got to Ravenna for the following reason. A group of Kent community leaders and the commission members traveled by automobile to the Merrill home at Twin Lakes. Here, they were served a gourmet feast consisting of platters of freshly caught Twin Lakes bluegills, fried chicken, and many side dishes plus quite a few pitchers of hard cider were consumed by the group on the Merrill’s spacious back porch.

After the repast, the Kent committee convinced the commission members that Kent was the best choice and consequently Kent became the Normal School site. Richard’s great grandfather, Frank A. Merrill, who served as Superintendent of Ravenna Schools, was made a member and treasurer of the Normal School’s first board of trustees. The first building on the new campus was named Merrill Hall. He died in 1916." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stacygray (talk • contribs) 02:38, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That is basically the same story I have heard and seen published, though I would add the committee did get to Ravenna, but was several hours late. Kent and Ravenna were 2 of 20 potential sites for the state normal school in northeast Ohio.  --JonRidinger (talk) 03:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Worries
Allerton has ten apartment buildings!!! but not twelve as stated here

I am worried the article is getting too full of cruft; a lot of info that is more trivial and "interesting" than encyclopedic. The article should describe the many aspects of Kent State University, but we need to make sure it still is notable and sourced. For instance, the section recently added on the gardens is nice, but it hardly merits its own section and subheadings. The gardens are hardly unique to KSU (most every college campus has them in some variety) and I am not aware of them winning any kind of outside award or recignition, so this article is starting to look more like a KSU brochure than an encyclopedic article. Really, the gardens can be mentioned in one or two sentences in the section "Campus". Remember, the point of this article isn't to promote Kent State; it's to inform in a neutral, encyclopedic way. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I see your point but disagree. I do agree that we need to make sure it's not a promotional piece for KSU, but I view the gardens as unique attributes of KSU. Unique as the     residence halls and learning communities. So do we eliminate these sections also?--Pacificboyksu (talk) 04:08, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Many campuses like KSU have gardens funded by alumni. Unless these specific gardens have won some kind of outside recognition or award, there is nothing really notable or significant about them.  Like I already said, they can easily be integrated into the "Campuses" section (it currently just mentions "gardens" in the paragraph) as an aspect of the Kent Campus.  But the specific names, donors, and lengthy descriptions are not necessary.  As for the residence halls and learning communities, please understand their presence and current form do not necessarily follow that they are examples of what to do.  Eventually, those sections need to be restructured as well into prose instead of lists.  This article has a loooooong way to go in terms of being even a "good" article.  Look at WP:UNI for examples of "good" and "featured" articles, paying attention to how those articles address the specific things you are questioning here.  --JonRidinger (talk) 04:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I am not sure that some of the sections in Student Life are warranted. Mainly the ones dealing with activities and programming. Any thoughts? --Pacificboyksu (talk) 05:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I would look at a featured article like University of Michigan and see how they incorporated the information and what they included and didn't. That's not to say we have to do it here exactly the same, but it can give us a better idea and general model.  My biggest problem with the Student Life section is the large amount of lists present.  Lists aren't that bad, but too many or large lists are! :D  IN general the article as a whole needs to be trimmed and organized and needs a LOT more sources, both from the University, but even moreso from outside reliable sources.  --JonRidinger (talk) 05:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I put the social greek organizations in a table format, is this ideal? If so, how could I incorporate the service/honorary organizations? Additional Columns? I'm worried that the column would be really long and cause formating issues... any thoughts? --Pacificboyksu (talk) 17:10, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it looks OK, but eventually everything would need to be put into a paragraph if it's included at all. Wikipedia is not a directory, so I'm not sure we need to list every Greek organization, since again, pretty much all of them are not unique to KSU.  My best advice would again be to look at WP:UNI and see what the page guidelines are there as well as checking out university articles that have been featured to see how they have organized similar sections.  --JonRidinger (talk) 17:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

City of Kent Section
This is redundant as it is mentioned and linked off of the opening section. --Pacificboyksu (talk) 05:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. Excellent move! --JonRidinger (talk) 05:10, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

History Section
There needs to be more added in terms of a more current history. Currently this only has early early history and information related to the May 4th shootings.--Pacificboyksu (talk) 05:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You'll note this was discussed a little in a previous section. The history really only covers one event (Tent City) after the shootings in the "Later history" section.  The early history can be greatly expanded as well as the Later history.  I suppose the May 4th section could also be expanded, but not much.  I think the current paragraph summarizes it quite well other than maybe expanding on the aftermath and its effects on the campus and school. --JonRidinger (talk) 05:10, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, missed that discussion. What sources are you thinking to pull from? Let me know of some little projects you need done and I'll try to knock them out in my spare time. I know that you were looking for Florence pictures, which I had. Glad to help in any way... always learning, thanks for the patience--Pacificboyksu (talk) 05:15, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You didn't miss much...it's just above this in the section about May 4. The best sources for history are of course the University website, but I also have two books on the history of Kent which have sections on the University.  The only shortcoming is they end in 1999.  History is where we generally have to use the University website and resources.  Third-party sources are needed, however, for any outstanding claims.  --JonRidinger (talk) 05:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

"Shootings" vs. "Massacre"
In the section on the Kent State shootings, I renamed the subheading of the section in this article to match the title of the actual article, which is "Kent State shootings." This was discussed for quite some time early in the creation of the Kent State shootings article (see Talk:Kent State shootings/archive) and it was decided the term "shootings" is the most widely used term to describe the event from third-party sources. Especially when it has the article title directly below the heading ("see also"), just use the same one regardless of your personal feelings if "massacre" or "shootings" is more appropriate or "accurate". From my own perspective growing up in Kent and attending KSU (for what it's worth here), "shootings" is what is commonly used. Locally they are oftentimes simply referred to as "the shootings". --JonRidinger (talk) 17:24, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Kent Athletic Logo
Mosmof has pulled out the Kent Athletic logo several times, but its inclusion in the athletic section make sense. The logo is used to represent the department, it shows the school colors and the flash. Mosmof says that the logo is not discussed in the article, but it does not need to be. Its relevance to the athletic section is obvious, since it is the athletic logo, and the team name and colors are both discussed in the section. Since the school colors, and logo are a part of the team identity, showing the logo conveys that in useful way. --Beirne (talk) 02:51, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. As I mentioned to Mosmof, it's a visual and expected aspect of athletics and the school (probably even more so than the university seal), so it does not need a paragraph explaining its significance to merit inclusion any more than the university's seal or text logo need them.  Most university athletic logos have very little (if any) historical significance or background, so there isn't usually much to mention anyway.  In looking at FA-status university articles, the inclusion of the athletic logo in the Athletics section varies (some do it, some don't).  Of those that do, even those with copyrighted logos (i.e. not just letters) simply have a basic caption identifying it as the logo.  There is no text in the article "discussing" the logo at all. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:22, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Enrollment
In regards to the enrollment and the repeated, good-faith attempts to change first to an outdated source and now to the 2011 Spring enrollment (and the "second-largest" statement), it's easier to just leave the article at the Fall enrollment numbers and update yearly instead of every semester. On top of that, the change from "second-largest" to "third-largest" was unsourced (the only source has KSU barely at second-largest by enrollment) and was based on KSU's reported Spring enrollment numbers (which are always slightly lower than Fall) compared with the University of Cincinnati's Fall numbers. UC likely has slightly lower numbers for Spring too. Note that even KSU's enrollment report doesn't compare Fall to Spring enrollments; rather, they compare Spring to Spring and Fall to Fall enrollments. I'm not really concerned about KSU keeping "second-largest" as much as I am having an article with an unsourced "third-largest" claim that is based on an inaccurate and casual observation of two numbers that aren't supposed to be compared. --JonRidinger (talk) 20:39, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The statement in the lead As of September 2010, Kent State is the second-largest university in Ohio with an enrollment of 41,365 students in the 8-campus system and 26,589 students at the main campus in Kent.[4][5] is backed up by the reliable sources cited. I would probably change the "is" to "was" (since 2010 is in the past). I would also make sure that the body of the article provided more information on this statement - per WP:LEAD, the lead is a summary of the article, so I owuld also include this information in the body of the article, and perhaps add some details there (or in a note) which do not belong in the lead. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:04, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Only Ohio public university named for an individual?
"As such, it is the only public university in Ohio named for an individual." What about Wright State University? Also, the claim seems questionable, as there already was a municipality of Kent at the time of KSU's founding (named, as the article states, for Marvin Kent). What, does that mean Bowling Green State University was named after the park which predated KSU's sister school campus? -- JeffBillman (talk) 20:09, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, the reliable source (complete with a quote) for that was written just before Kent Hall (also named for the same individual) was renovated in the early 2000s, long after Wright State was established in the 1960s. And Wright State isn't named for an individual it was named after the Wright Brothers.  Kent State was named after William S. Kent (son of Marvin Kent) by vote of the original Board of Trustees.  It's really a technicality more than anything.  BG was named after the town it was located in.  Kent State was named after the donor of the land for the original campus (since BG was on land that was previously a park, you could say BGSU was also named for the "donor of the land"), who happened to be the same family as the city's namesake.  In short, the city of Kent and Kent State are named for the same family but not the same individual.  I guess if they had used the full name, the university would be called William S. Kent State University (thankfully they just used the last name).  If his name had been Kent S. Williams, the school would probably be known as Williams State University now!  A second reliable source is the 2010 book A Most Noble Enterprise: The Story of Kent State University 1910-2010 by William H. Hildebrand.  On page 14, it reads: "At the same July 17 (1911) meeting they (the Board of Trustees) named the state normal school in honor of William S. Kent, on whose land it would arise, making Kent the only state institution of higher education to carry the name of an individual."  --JonRidinger (talk) 02:12, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand the claim is properly sourced, but it's problematic. In addition to Wright State, there are also a number of community colleges in Ohio named for individuals.  Among these are Edison State Community College, James A. Rhodes State College, Owens Community College, and Sinclair Community College.  I realize these are community colleges as opposed to universities granting graduate degrees, but the Hildebrand quote specifies a "state institution of higher education", which would seem not to exclude community colleges.  Perhaps we could state that it was the first state institution of higher education to carry the name of an individual? -- JeffBillman (talk) 01:45, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You'd have to ask Hildebrand what he meant, but I'm assuming he didn't mean community colleges; he was referring to the 13 full-fledged public universities. I don't have a problem with your solution, but the current statement in the article "it is the only public university in Ohio named for an individual" is still true since Wright State isn't named for just one of the Wright brothers and Rhodes State and the other community colleges aren't universities in name or function.  In the end, though, it's largely trivia.  If it really bothers you, it can just be eliminated.  --JonRidinger (talk) 04:13, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Notable faculty
No notable faculty? other schools have sections, lists.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:33, 21 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Like any Wikipedia article, it's a matter of someone taking the time to make one, which hasn't happened yet (true for many schools too). There is a category: Category:Kent State University faculty, which you are aware of. Currently, the only lists for KSU people are List of Kent State University alumni and List of presidents of Kent State University. --JonRidinger (talk) 22:44, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Inclusion of court case
I have twice removed the addition of the mention of OLUSEGUN FALANA v. KENT STATE UNIVERSITY AND ALEXANDER J. SEED, not only because it isn't formatted correctly, but because it appears to lack notability. The article itself has been nominated by another editor for deletion, so the debate of whether or not it meets WP:N will be there. As for here, please hold off adding it into this article until the deletion debate is over, and if it is a keep, then it's going to need some major formatting help, not only with the all-caps title, but how/if it fits into the history section. Right now, it's not a significant event in KSU's history, so in addition to questionable notability, it also has WP:UNDUE issues. The history section here isn't for everything that's ever happened at KSU...it's for major events that have helped shape how the university has developed. This court case doesn't appear to have had any major impact on the development of KSU or resulted in any noticeable changes (such as a major administrative change, new construction, major policy change, etc.) --JonRidinger (talk) 05:44, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080513114532/http://speccoll.library.kent.edu/scfaq.html to http://speccoll.library.kent.edu/scfaq.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090522203107/http://www.kent.edu/media/2009NewsReleases/trustees3182009.cfm to http://www.kent.edu/media/2009NewsReleases/trustees3182009.cfm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061026072318/http://www.educ.kent.edu/EFSS/programs/SP/ to http://www.educ.kent.edu/EFSS/programs/SP/

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