Talk:Kent Steffes

Please help to improve my page
I am Kent Steffes and I was a professional beach volleyball player in the 1990's, Olympic Gold Medalist, Ranked Number 1, World Champion and Winningest Player of all time! I hold numerous records in the sport. I also recently wrote a book with Travis Mewhirter called Kings of Summer: The Rise of Beach Volleyball. I was recently inducted into the USA Volleyball Hall of Fame as the All-Time Great Male Beach Player and some consider me the GOAT of the sport. I am very flattered. I guess that explains all the recent activity on my Wiki page. There has been a COI inquiry regarding my page and yes I have for decades been the only one to make the major updates to my page such as when I got married, had kids, was inducted into various hall of fames, wrote a book and other notable events. If I didn't do it, I guess nobody would. I have strictly adhered to the COI guidelines but would love anyone else's interest in my career as a beach volleyball player and with my Wiki page, so come one come all. But please, beach volleyball is a small niche sport followed by very few. Very few people understand the various tours, bankruptcies, controversial records, entities and letter organizations that have mixed and match over the decades (AVP, Association of Volleyball Professionals, FIVB, BVA, USAV, EVA, World of Volleyball, etc.) so finding quality sources to link to can be tricky. You can basically find a source that says anything, and the records of the sport are highly controversial and there is no authoritative source to reconcile them all. For example I am the youngest number one ranked player in the history of the sport, but someone keep changing that to youngest number one in the history of the AVP, which is sorta, kinda, mostly right because there was no AVP when I was 21 (if you don't know the distinction be careful editing my page), but I am also, as far as I know, the youngest number #1 in the history of the sport on any of the tours (and there have been many), ever, so not sure why the person keeps changing it. Oh well I guess it's fine. But if you have a passion for beach volleyball and its history and want to help make my page better, Welcome! I could use the help and its lonely being the only one to edit your own page. Best Kent Kentsteffes (talk) 22:57, 6 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Here is a recent (like five minutes ago) perfect example of an edit to my page from someone that is not that familiar with the sport of Beach Volleyball, in 2020 I was inducted into the USA Volleyball Hall of Fame as the All-Time Great Male Beach Volleyball Player. The editor changed "the" to "an" stating that
 * ""an" not "the", as there are others. In fact, there were two other "All-Time Great Male Player" inductees in 2020."
 * Well Hondo77 those other two received the "Thomas Haine All-Time Great Male Beach Player" not the award I got which was "All-Time Great Male Beach Player" see the difference? Frankly I barely understand the difference myself. As I said above if you are not familiar with the sport you could get tripped up. Especially with the records.
 * Hondo77 then proceeded to change the page and cite a source that is highly controversial regarding who has the most wins in the history of the sport. Well, Hondo77, did you know that some of the players on that list made up wins? Just made them up. Some counted wins that were not wins, wins that were not tournaments and tournaments that were not sanctioned tournaments. That site for some reason doesn't include all of the tournaments won by the great Brazilian Beach Volleyball Player Emmanuel Rego (even by their standards). That's kinda whack (I know why but I don't want to say, not interested in getting involved).
 * Another thing, should Tier 2 and Tier 3 and Tier 4 Tournament wins count the same as Tier 1 wins? In other words, it's a mess in the sport. But it gets worse, when I played there was only one beach volleyball tour in the whole world, The Association of Volleyball Professionals Tour, and all the best players in the world played on it.
 * Now the AVP still holds tournaments (note it's not called the Association of Volleyball Professionals anymore), but only Americans can play on it. All the best players in the world play on the FIVB World Tour (well not all of them now, they did something called the Elite 16 but whatever) and none of the are Americans, so should a current AVP tournament count the same as the Association of Volleyball Professionals Tournaments I played on or an Elite 16 tournament today? I guess I see why I am alone in editing my Wiki page.
 * So, the consensus in the sport has coalesced around winning percentage as the determinate of who is "the best" and guess what? That is me! I am the winningest player in the history of the sport... if you base it on winning percentage. So, what should we put on my Wikipedia page given all that mess I just wrote? I look forward to hearing all your thoughts. Kentsteffes (talk) 23:30, 6 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello. First, I reverted your winningest change back to 4th. Both Merriam-Webster and Wiktionary define "winningest" as having the most wins. I can't find a reference for this "winningest" consensus you mention so you'll need to provide that (and, really, should percentage count? I mean, a player who wins his first tournament and then retires would be considered the winningest by percentage alone, so that doesn't make sense).  For better or worse, the tribal knowledge that you mentioned, while fascinating, isn't good enough.  Credible refs from real sources per WP:CITE are what's needed.


 * Second, if that site's statistics are controversial then you need to provide a better reference (and actual stats, not just someone's podcast). That's the way it works. I've looked for a better reference but can't find one.


 * Third, I reverted back to "an" instead of "the" and provided a ref showing all the recipients of that particular award (you were correct: the other two men I cited were bad examples): Kiraly, Stoklos, and Von Hagen in addition to Steffes.


 * It's all about the refs. Speaking of which, a bunch of yours are broken. Scroll down to the References section. See all that red? That's bad. Check out Template:Cite web for more info on how to fix those.


 * P.S. I did make some changes to this page back in July. I forget how I stumbled upon it but I saw that it needed some work and it's been on my Watchlist ever since. So, you're not the only one.;-) Hondo77 (talk) 13:39, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for taking an interest. The sport has had major changes and shocks over the last few decades including multiple bankruptcies and a transition from the AVP in the United States to the International FIVB. The change in consensus is currently occurring due to the retirement this year of Phil Dalhausser, one of the sport's greatest players and what constitutes who was "the greatest". Basically, due to the reduction in the number of tournaments competed and the introduction of "Tier's". Thus, the evolving change in consensus to winning percentage and further into winning percentage in Tier 1 Events. It is evolving. Other changes are that former events that were called "The World Championships" are recognized by one entity but no longer recognized by the FIVB. So that may in the future cause confusion. The source you used bvbinfo.com is enmeshed in that controversy and influenced by some of the people on the top of that list! You are correct about the "first win retirement" but that is usually handled in sport by having "minimums" in order to qualify, such as minimum number of... tournaments played, passes completed, etc. Please take a look at the change and let me know if you concur.
 * What does Wiki have to say about the evolution from written sources to the current preponderance of podcasts as a means to disseminate information? Thoughts?
 * As to the Award it is All-Time Great Male Beach Player which is not even awarded annually and which for some reason is different from the "Thomas Haine All-Time Great Male Beach Player". Please take a look at the change and let me know if you concur.
 * I will try to correct the refs, thanks and again thanks for taking an interest in Beach Volleyball. Hope you continue. Kentsteffes (talk) 14:34, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * - if you are in future unblocked, try not to text-wall; Wikipedia describes it as tl;dr.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:24, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Now that you have been verified as the real-life Kent Steffes, please observe the following best practices: --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 05:36, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Realize that you do not own or control the content of this article. We strive for accuracy, neutrality and balance, which means that the subject of the article cannot insist that it remain at a version they prefer. The neutral point of view policy will ensure that both positive and negative information can be included, if it is cited to reliable and independent sources.
 * 2) In cases of clear vandalism or libellous content, you are allowed to remove such content yourself without discussion. However, it is considered a best practice to mention your removal of this content on the article talk page.
 * 3) Learn the process of making edit requests for substantial changes. As it is an inherent conflict of interest to write about yourself, please refrain from editing the article directly. Instead, please make edit requests here on the article talk page; many small requests for specific changes are preferable to one large request with multiple changes.


 * Hi so I have some people giving me tips on how I should edit without a text-wall and you saying not to make edits where you included a link to the COI page which says a COI can sometimes edit. I am confused. I do not believe I own or control the article only update it when a new award is given or an induction in a Hall of Fame occurs. Nor do I insist on a version. As you can see from the discussion above, there was confusion over the name of the award, which is a matter of record, not about a neutral point of view. So I guess I would ask, can I or can I not edit the article directly? Just let me know. Thank you. Kentsteffes (talk) 16:17, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I was quite enjoying learning about a new-to-me topic area (including the inaugural Olympics), but the text-screed under this heading spoilt it to the point where I did not read through. As is mentioned in #3. above, it would be polite Wikiquette if you would use the edit request format to this Talk page, starting a new Heading as necessary, for any changes to the content and/or layout. Any changes should be supported by published reliable sources; preferably these would be secondary. There is a concept called SELFCITE, but in practice this may prove to be difficult to apply. In practice, any requests would be dealt with by a non-involved editor.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:37, 9 October 2022 (UTC)