Talk:Ketogenesis

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gruskyd. Peer reviewers: Avevanduz, Majumak.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Acetoacetate not a ketone?

 * The three ketone bodies are acetoacetate, beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetone. (The first two are not technically ketones according to IUPAC nomenclature, but the third is.)

I see how beta-hydroxybutyrate isn't a true ketone because it lacks a ketone functional group, but it certainly seems that carbon three of acetoacetate forms part of a ketone functional group. I've updated the page pending further discussion. Also, according to ketone bodies, acetoacetate is a true ketone body. --David Iberri (talk) 22:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

HMG-CoA error
189.42.228.115 (talk) 21:29, 13 July 2008 (UTC) On the grafic, β-hydroxy-β-methylglutaryl-CoA (HMG-CoA) is decompose in acetoacetate and CoASH, but it´s impossible because 2 carbons disapear and has lack of energy. In french page, the liase forms Acetyl-Coa, that is more plausible.

Reference
I really need the reference for the statement that the ketegonesis is initiated "if the amounts of acetyl-CoA generated in fatty-acid β-oxidation challenge the processing capacity of the TCA cycle or if activity in the TCA cycle is low due to low amounts of intermediates such as oxaloacetate" - does anyone know where I can find this? i tried all the references listed without luck. I would really much appreciate it!

My email is cduun07@student.aau.dk

thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.198.198 (talk) 11:49, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

From acetyl CoA... not faty acid breakdown?
In "types of ketone bodies" it states, "each of these compounds is synthesized from acetyl CoA", yet at the intro it says "fatty acid breakdown". How about just say acetyl CoA -> ketone, is ketogenesis? 129.180.166.53 (talk) 03:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Review
... of defects in ketone body metabolism: 10.1007/s10545-014-9704-9. JFW &#124; T@lk  13:43, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

References for article expansion
I am planning expanding this article quite a bit over the next few weeks and have a list of a few sources to use as a starting point:

diapedia - https://www.diapedia.org/metabolism-insulin-and-other-hormones/51040851169/ketone-body-metabolism Metabolic acidosis - http://site.ebrary.com/lib/reed/reader.action?docID=10575608# Pain-Free Biochemistry - http://site.ebrary.com/lib/reed/reader.action?docID=10361167 Regulation of Ketone Body Metabolism and the Role of PPARα - http://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/17/12/2093/htm Mitochondrial 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-CoA synthase: a control enzyme - http://www.biochemj.org/content/ppbiochemj/338/3/569.full.pdf

I intend to add more sources as I continue to work on the article, but feedback on these sources would be greatly appreciated, as I am still relatively new to the subject.Gruskyd (talk) 04:26, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Ketoacidosis statement incorrect
The section “Insufficient gluconeogenesis can cause hypoglycemia and excessive production of ketone bodies, ultimately leading to a life-threatening condition known as ketoacidosis.[3]” Is incorrect

Life threatening Ketoacidosis is a diabetic’s condition when they have excessive sugar AND excessive ketones in the blood Eismarsh 01:48, 2 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eismarsh (talk • contribs)

No, it's not. DKA (hyperglycemic) is the most common form, but there are multiple causes of ketoacidosis, for example alcohol (euglycemic) or starvation (hypoglycemic) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mleonard85032 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

The term 'carbohydrate insufficiency' is used...
... but the assertion that a low amount of carbohydrates is an insufficiency isn't supported by any citation. Maybe this should be changed into 'carbohydrate absence' or 'absence of carbohydrates'? Thanks.Wikiario~enwiki (talk) 06:26, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * "Carbohydrate insufficiency" is better. Absence of carbohydrates in the blood leads to rapid death. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:19, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Unscientific assertions seeping through
"Ethanol is a powerful AMPK inhibitor[6] and therefore can cause profound disruptions in the metabolic state of the liver, including halting of ketogenesis,[4] even in the context of severe glucose shortage."

I have various issues with the way this is formulated. Ketogenesis seems to be one of many ways to obtain energy in the following order: If glucose is available then this will be the fuel to be used (4 kcal/g). If no glucose is available but ethanol is, then ethanol will be the fuel being used (7 kcal/g). If no glucose and no ethanol is available ketogenic state will be entered and body fat will be used (9 kcal/g).

Is there any reason to associate the absence of glucose with 'insufficiency'? Is there any reason to associate the presence of ethanol as a cause of 'profound distuption' of liver metabolism? If so, document please. Is there any reason to label the absence of glucose as 'severe glucose shortage'? It sounds as if it's a very unhealthy state, so citations would be very welcome. Thanks Wikiario~enwiki (talk) 06:37, 18 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I've reformatted the above to match what I assume you intended.
 * I'm also mystified by the claim that ethanol can halt ketogenesis. It doesn't seem supported by the existing citation nor any other I can find.  Perhaps there are complications I'm unaware of, but my understanding is that ethanol increases ketogenesis, as its metabolism leads to accumulation of acetyl CoA and a lack of NAD+.  Is it possible there was confusion with gluconeogenesis, which really is inhibited by ethanol?  Pinging  and . Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:19, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Also pinging User:Wikiario~enwiki. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:22, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

I changed the wording to remove unnecessary qualifiers. Can we stop debating it now? And for the nothing that it's worth, it isn't an "unscientific assertion" that I just pulled out of my ear. And, exactly, there is a surplus of acetyl-CoA. But that's precisely the problem; the excess NADH forces the aforementioned Ac-CoA away from ketogenesis and instead towards lipogenesis, which consumes NADH, in order to replenish the NAD+ supply. But if you do take exception to the statement then please feel free to change or remove it. User:Mleonard85032 09:33, 31 October 2020