Talk:Kevin Carter/Archive 1

Two Vultures
One journalist said that there were two vultures in the picture: the bird and the photographer - but I can't find the quote...

chocolateboy 02:38, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Vulture or not he was to that poor child, at least he helped spread awareness to the world about the famine issue... May the photo help spur people to do the right thing... Haya shiloh 14:46, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

"He said that he waited about 20 minutes, hoping that the vulture would spread its wings."
"He said that he waited about 20 minutes, hoping that the vulture would spread its wings." Is there a citation for this? Seems speculative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.20.138 (talk) 10:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Poem
I removed the poem concerned with Carter's death. Wikipedia is not a creative forum, it is an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.231.191 (talk) 15:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Add the picture
The man is known for a very famous photo yet it's not even on his article. CoheedDeclara (talk) 11:18, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

the image is double on the page
Kevin Carter were indeed sorrounded by starving childrens and adults. Right after he took his shot with the girl and the vulture, he sat under a tree and prayed and cried for this people and thought of his own daughter. Being there, depression is everywhere in you. Depressed that you can't do anything about it. And he believed, that the only way he can at least help this people is to make the world see what he have felt and seen that same day through his eye-opening photographs.

hayats 12:26, 23 June 2006 (GMT+1) Several websites and blogs refer to Kevin's diary and that he stated the following "Kevin Carter also wrote the following in his diary found after he died

"Dear God, I promise I will never waste my food no matter how bad it can taste and how full I may be. I pray that He will protect this little boy, guide and deliver him away from his misery. I pray that we will be more sensitive towards the world around us and not be blinded by our own selfish nature and interests."

Does anyone know whether or not its true.


 * Snopes says it's not by Kevin Carter, it was added by someone after many years of "circulating on the internet": http://www.snopes.com/photos/people/kevincarter.asp Peter-HHH (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Received content similar to this http://www.huaren.com/UnitedNations/photo-1.htm in email fwd of the photo and the text that he committed suicide.

Could you verify it, or nulify it for sure? Hmmmm...

P.S.: Facts aside, the email was so much of an eye opener (reminds me of "FOOD IS A WEAPON") that I fwd it to all of my contacts.--The world salutes the Rising Star...Try to be One 02:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Sadly, many unhearted people use the mail forwards, just to add more and more email addresses to a database, which is sold to spammers. Because of that, I am strongly against mail forwards. AlvaroBecerra 00:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, that really was and is never MY motive :)--Nothing is free in this world 11:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Note for expansion
Should probably mention the photo of Alwyn Wolfaardt.©Geni (talk) 03:11, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Alternate Account?
I think some citations are needed for that. There doesn't seem to be anything to support it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.244.210 (talk) 10:40, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The reference produced for that account is apparently in Japanese, so someone will have to do some work in order to verify it.--Anthonzi (talk) 13:46, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello - Maybe the "Alternate Account" is not the best wording. It is a second report by an other photograph at this event. Better: Second Report : or description of an event. Citations are to find, I found some. Maybe I chance it some day.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 11:13, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

editing
The sentence: "Journalists at the time were warned never to touch famine victims for fear of disease." Is incorrect maybe not entirely but in Kevin's case it is. I've done a lot of research on carter and just finished reading the Bang-Bang club book. Kevin never said he didn't help the child because he was fearful of disease or anything close to that. He has stated saying he doesn't know why he didn't help the child that he felt it wasn't necessary because the child was 50 ft away from the food supplies that had just been dropped.

I think this line should be removed because it untrue. Yes maybe some journalists were warned but it is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with why this child was not helped. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cdynas (talk • contribs) 23:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC).


 * This citation you can find in the report of the other photograph, which was at this event too. This is correct in Kevin's case.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 11:20, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Image missing?
The famous vulture image no longer appears on this page.. Where'd it go? Kremmit (talk) 22:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The copyright by the image is in the hand of an photo agency. Info via NY-Times- The words continue: Mr. Carter was survived by his young daughter, who owns the rights to the image, which are managed by the Corbis photo agency, owned by Bill Gates. (APRIL 14, 2009) - maybe today some other photo agency.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 11:04, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * PS "Corbis Images, the photo agency owned by Bill Gates’ Corbis Group, is to be sold to Chinese new media company, Visual China Group."--Maxim Pouska (talk) 12:03, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Some new information and not relevant text
Hello,, , today exist more information in secondary sources as back in 2008. I'm preparing an update for "Prize-winning photograph in Sudan". I found for this new citations. I was surprised that about João Silva is more written then about Kevin. Maybe some of this in "Alternative account" is not relevant - the section titles is not the best. Relevant is a "Reception" type section. Because of the extrem critic by moral apostels /moralizer, which don't understand the team work in journalisms - and in connection with UN aide workers (UNICEF) and the medizin teams in a camp. Please take care of the correct formating for the citation which I use - I'm not perfect with this.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 04:27, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Hello, I start to do some work.
This is about Silvia and irrelevant: Silva also started to take photos of children on the ground as if crying, which were not published. deleted.

irrelevant: Silva went looking for guerrilla fighters, while Carter strayed no more than a few metres from the plane. deleted - no citation for "few metres".

Better word for : He then took a few more photos before chasing the bird away. drove away the vulture Source: And when the vultures came down upon the carcasses, Abram drove them away. {Ge 15:11}

Mon Dieu - this is not relevant because it is the theorie (phantasy) of an other journalist, which went 3 months later to this place - I delete it complet. Because "Some jack just added "jealous jerkface" ..." that is the best explaination for this text under the headline: La otra foto que no ganó el Pulitzer - 21.03.07 | 14:18. Archivado en Periodistas # The other photo that did not win the Pulitzer - 21.03.07 | 14:18. Filed under Journalists

However, Arenzana argued that although the photo was near a feeding center and the particular child in Carter's photo may not have been in mortal peril, that does not mean Carter's photo is a total lie.

''“It is certain that this photography is of great impact and leaves no one indifferent, but it made many people raise stupid questions. If you cut away a piece of reality and you isolate it, you’re able to either be expressing reality or not expressing reality. And in this case, that which is expressed in the photo is a pretty good reflection of that which happened and is currently happening, there in Sudan. Photography has an enormous power over the viewers, and it has to be like that in order to reflect the horrible reality.”[5]''

In the next steps I write new information with valuable sources and references.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 19:34, 5 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree about Abraham and his fowls. Even James I got that right. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:18, 5 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The word "chasing the vulture away" is used by Greg Marinovich in the book The Bang Bang Club, 2000, page 117. I change it now.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 20:21, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Technical accuracy of the quote about use of telephoto lens and the proximity of the vulture to the child
"So if you grab a telephoto crush the child's perspective in the foreground and background and it seems that the vultures will eat it, but that's an absolute hoax, perhaps the animal is 20 meters.":

As far as I can tell from the low res image, both the vulture and the child are in focus (or close to it). As the focal length of the telephoto lens gets larger, you need to use wider aperture to get enough light in - this leads to narrowing down of the depth of focus. Alternatively, you can increase the duration of exposure while using narrower aperture, but that will require a tripod, and very patient/immobile subjects (and I don't think anyone makes telephoto lenses with this narrow a aperture as it is impractical). Someone who can use a handheld >>300mm telephoto lens to get both a child and a vulture separated by 20m in focus deserves a Pulitzer just for that feat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.12.166.191 (talk) 17:08, 5 December 2013 (UTC)


 * pretty much all lenses have the option to reduce their aperture and in full sunlight you can get away with fairly small apertures and still have reasonable exposure times. Depth of field also depends a fair bit on distance to subject.©Geni (talk) 02:39, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Lock this page for editing. Some jack just added "jealous jerkface" in front of Jaos silva. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.16.198.141 (talk) 17:14, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm a little confused - the two accounts of events don't actually seem different - just more and less detailed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.73.142 (talk) 20:52, 14 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I think this discussion now probably belongs over at Talk:The vulture and the little girl. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

No Book ? Fujiwara, Akio, The Boy who became a postcard ("Ehagakini Sareta Shōnen")
Hello, I just looking for the book by: Fujiwara, Akio, The Boy who became a postcard ("Ehagakini Sareta Shōnen"), 2005, ISBN 4-08-781338-X. ButI can find nothing via Google, Amazon.com, amazon.co.jp or ABEbooks. The answers are : ""Ehagakini Sareta Shōnen""の検索に一致する商品はありませんでした. or There were no products matching your search.

Because this is the key reference for the writing Alternative version of events my question is now: is the text fiction?

I one the book The Bang-Bang Club, Snapshots from a hidden war, edition 2000. This book I use for a new text with reliable sources, citations (inline) about the photo by Kevin Carter in the next time. Maybe the part Alternative version of events need to be deleted. Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 13:20, 5 June 2017 (UTC)


 * PS now I found the book via amazon with "絵はがきにされた少年 (集英社文庫)" - but I think it is better to use as reliable source the book from 2000 by Greg Marinovich, the writer of the book The Bang-Bang Club: Snapshots from a Hidden War.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 13:34, 5 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The book 絵はがきにされた少年 (集英社文庫) you can find only via amazon.jp in Japanese. But the translation of the titel is not right, maybe. Translated via google translater into englisch: African body temperature, knit in a small story. In a review I found the information the postcard on the frontpage of the book is from around 1930 and it is a photo taken in Lesotho. Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 05:44, 27 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I asked an editor for Japan by WP to translate the titel of the book from Japanese into English. He answered today an wrote: the titel is: Postcard Boy (絵はがきにされた少年).


 * I did not find a book with this titel or the Japanese titel on Amazon.com or AbeBooks.com or ebay.com. This reference is not more valid. With oclc.org no result too. I deled this in some days. Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 15:19, 30 September 2017 (UTC)


 * PS I have already written a new text about the situation of Kevin Carter and Joao Silva in Ayod, Sudan. I will set the text tomorrow. For this I used a first valid source. Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 15:48, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * See my reply on your talk page. cart -Talk  10:20, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Joao Silva and Kevin Carter in Sudan
Hello I start with the update of the events in Sudan.

Invitation by UN Operation Lifeline Sudan
March 1993 Robert Hadley, a former photograph and at this time the information officer for the UN Operation Lifeline Sudan, offered Joao Silva and Kevin Carter to come to Sudan and report about the famine in South Sudan. It was a offer to go into southern Sudan with the rebels. Silva did see this as a change to work more as war-photographer in the future. He started the arrangements and secured assignments for the expenses of the travel. Silva told Carter about the offer and Carter was also interested to go. Kevin did see it as an chance to fix some problems „he felt trapped in“. To take photos in Sudan was a task, which an opportunity for a better career as freelancer, and to „get of the white pipe“. „Kevin was on a high, motivated and enthusiastic about the trip“. Marinovich wrote in the book. {sfn|Marinovich|Silva|2000|pp=109-110}} To pay for the travel Carter secured some money from the Associated Press and others, but need to borrow money from Marinovich, for commitments back at home too. Not known to Carter and Silva was all the time that the UN Operation Lifeline Sudan did have "great difficulties in securing funding for Sudan", explains Marinovich. Marinovich wrote further: "The UN hoped to published the famine … Without publicity to show the need, it was difficult for aid organizations to sustain funding". About the politically differences and fighting "João and Kevin knew none of this – they just wanted to get in and shoot pictures".


 * The first part more is coming. Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 11:38, 1 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Now the next part. All the text is written using the first reliable, third-party, published source - the book by Greg Marinovich Joao Silva. The book was written 1997-1999 and published 2000.

Waiting in Nairobi
Silva and Carter had prepared carefully for the trip. They flew to Nairobi to get from there to Sudan. The new fighting in Sudan forced them to wait in Nairobi for an unspecified period of time. In between Carter was flying with the UN for one day to Juba in the south Sudan to take photos of a barge, which food aid for the region. But soon the situation changed again. The UN received permission from a rebel group to fly food aid to Ayod in. Also Rob Hadley was flying on a UN light plane in and invited Silva and Carter to fly with him to Ayod.

In Ayod
The next day they arrived with the light plane in the tiny hamlet of Ayod. The cargo plane landed shortly thereafter. The villagers were already waiting next to the runway to get fast enough food. "Mother who hat joined the throng waiting for food left there children on the sandy ground nearby." wrote Marinovich and Silva. Silva and Carter separated to shoot pictures of children and people, the living and dead victims of the hunger catastrophe that had arisen through the war. Carter went several times to Silva to tell him about the shocking situation he had just photographed. Witnessing the famine touched his emotions very strongly. Silva was searching for rebel soldiers who could take him to someone in authority. He found some soldiers and Carter jointed him. The soldiers did not speak English, but one was interested in Carter's wristwatch. Carter gave him his cheap wristwatch as a gift. The soldiers were their bodyguards and followed them for their protection.

To stay a week with the rebels they need the permission of a rebel commander. Their plan would take of in an hour and without the permission they had to fly back. Again they separated and Silva went to the clinic complex to ask for the rebel commander. The rebel commander was to find in Kongor, south Sudan he was told. That was for Silva good news, "their little UN plane was heading there next". He left the clinic and went back to the runaway, taking on his way pictures of cildren and people. "Hi came across a child lying on his face in the hot sun – hi took a picture.

Prize-winning photograph in Sudan
Carter saw Silva on the runaway, coming fast toward him and saying: "'Man' he put one hand on Silva's shoulder, the other covered his eyes. You won't believe what I've just shot! … 'I was shooting this kid on her knees, and then changed my angle, and suddenly there was this vulture right behind her! … And I just kept shooting – shot lots of film!"

Silva asked him where he shot the picture and was looking around to take the photo too. Carter pointed to a place 50 m away. Then Carter told him that he had chasing the vulture away. He was completely shocked by the situation he had just photographed. He said to Silva "I see all this, and all I can think of is Megan". Megan was his young daughter. He lit a cigarette and became more and more emotional by the minute. "I can't wait to hug her when I get home." A few minutes later they got into the small UN plane and left Ayod for Kongor.

Sold to The New York Times, the photograph first appeared on 26 March 1993 and was carried in many other newspapers around the world. Hundreds of people contacted the newspaper to ask the fate of the girl. The paper reported that it was not known whether she had managed to reach the feeding centre. In April 1994, the photograph won the Pulitzer Prize for Feature Photography.


 * This new sections I insert now in the article and delete the section "Alternative version of events". Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 01:34, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Prize-winning photograph in Sudan
Carter saw Silva on the runaway, coming fast toward him and saying: "'Man' he put one hand on Silva's shoulder, the other covered his eyes. You won't believe what I've just shot! … 'I was shooting this kid on her knees, and then changed my angle, and suddenly there was this vulture right behind her! … And I just kept shooting – shot lots of film!"

Silva asked him where he shot the picture and was looking around to take the photo too. Carter pointed to a place 50 m away. Then Carter told him that he had chasing the vulture away. He was completely shocked by the situation he had just photographed. He said to Silva "I see all this, and all I can think of is Megan". Megan was his young daughter. He lit a cigarette and became more and more emotional by the minute. "I can't wait to hug her when I get home." A few minutes later they got into the small UN plane and left Ayod for Kongor.

Alternative version of events - now deleted because of the new text
Hello, in the new sections are now precisely the events described and with reliable sources as references supported.

The old text is whichout references and the Book by Akio Fujiwara exist only in Japanese language. I can not use this book as reference - I am sorry. Because of this I delete now the section "Alternative version of events". Best.--Maxim Pouska (talk) 01:20, 2 October 2017 (UTC)