Talk:Kevin Spacey/Archive 2

Middle name
No official book/article I've seen states that his middle name at birth was Spacey. One British newspaper article simply states his birth name was Kevin Fowler (no middle name given). The biography graph makes it even more confusing, stating that he took the name Spacey as his surname in high school. If this is true, it was already his middle name. Would it not then be more accurate to say he dropped his surname and adopted his middle name instead?Kitchawan (talk) 17:32, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

MOON-Gerty
Just thought I'd put this up. In 2009 Kevin Spacey provided voice acting in Duncan Jones' 2009 film "MOON", although he doesn't appear physicaly on screen in this he voices "Gerty" Sam Bell's only companion in his three year contract to stay on the moon, Gerty is a central character to the plot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.11.73.151 (talk) 19:33, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Caparezza's Song
The italian rapper Caparezza has made a song named "Kevin Spacey" from his last album Il sogno eretico, where he reveals a lot of important scenes from the most famous movies (not only Kevin Spacey's movies). I think it's good to write it in Kevin Spacey's page, no?

Giant Lizard (talk) 11:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

The Social Network
Spacey mightn't have starred in it, but he was executive producer. Why isn't he credited in the filmography table for that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.231.198.186 (talk) 09:29, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Cease and Desist
I don't know how important this is or if it warrants being on this page, but I thought I'd just mention it since it's kind of interesting little piece of trivia:


 * "On June 21, Los Angeles musician Cassettes Won't Listen (née Jason Drake) is due to issue an album originally called Kevinspacey. The title, Drake says, was meant to play with the idea of open spaces, something he’d been thinking about a lot as he adjusted to SoCal's urban sprawl following a move from Brooklyn. But as you might expect, none of that mattered to actor Kevin Spacey, who noticed the uncanny similarity to his name and—despite the absence of any references to him in the album itself—slapped Drake with a cease-and-desist order."

source

--24.61.191.94 (talk) 15:18, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Personal life
In September 2006, Spacey said that he intendes should read: In September 2006, Spacey said that he intends

Dauguts (talk) 23:28, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done RudolfRed (talk) 01:26, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request
Please remove the TRIVIA section titled "Curiosities".


 * In year 2011 the Italian rapper Caparezza dedicates a song to the actor, named "Kevin Spacey," included in his album Il sogno eretico. The song has been playing on Italian and Swiss radios since January 27, 2012.

The fact that the section is completely unsourced is the least of the obvious problems. --87.79.108.207 (talk) 05:05, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed and ✅. Thanks, Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:02, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Filmography
2011's Margin Call should be in there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.87.132 (talk) 16:23, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It was listed as a 2010 film. I fixed it after looking up the release date at IMDB. You're right that it was 2011.Jonesey95 (talk) 23:06, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

No mention of "The Shipping News"?
No reference to it appears anywhere in this article. Weird. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.144.252.26 (talk) 19:45, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's certainly there now. Pburka (talk) 03:49, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2013
Edit Se7en

Edit Se7en 68.0.216.233 (talk) 00:39, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. I'm unsure as to what "Edit Se7en" is a request for. Please resubmit your request in the form of "Change X to Y". Thanks, Nici  Vampire  Heart  09:04, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Early Life
I graduated from Chatsworth High School in 1975. My yearbook from that year, the Chancery, shows a picture of Kevin Fowler (Spacey), V. Kilmer, and M. Whinningham all in the 10th grade. Therefore, he could not have graduated from Canoga Park High School. He had to have attended Chatsworth High in 10th grade, which does not preclude him from having attended CPHS that same year, but makes it highly unlikely that he attended CPHS in eleventh grade. Someone should fix the information on his high school life. It appears quite inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SGoetsch (talk • contribs) 10:37, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Old Vic
The article states that he "was" artistic director of the Old Vic from 2004 to 2014 - it neglects the fact that while he will step down at some point in 2015 (to be succeeded by Matthew Warchus) - he is still still artistic director at the moment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.223.197.189 (talk) 11:05, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Where did Kevin attend 10th and 11th grade?
- The article is accurate with "... Canoga Park High School (in tenth and eleventh grades), and then Chatsworth High School... "

The Canoga Park High School Utopian yearbooks for the senior year of 1975 and 1976 has Kevin Fowler's picture, listing him as K. Fowler.

Also shown are additional pictures of him in the cast of "Dames at Sea" 1975, "All My Sons" 1976 and the Drama Club for both years.

He attended Canoga Park High School for tenth and eleventh grades and transferred his senior year to Chatsworth High School after being offered the leading male role in "The Sound of Music."

- A picture of K. Fowler, V. Kilmer, and M. Winningham in the Chatsworth 1975 Chancery yearbook "might" be from a LAUSD Drama Festival were the 3 of them participated.

Ammobox (talk) 19:15, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

= =======================

Edit Request -

The article lists him as sole valedictorian.

He actually was co valedictorian with classmate Mare Winningham.

http://www.cinequest.org/events/159568/conversation-kevin-spacey

Ammobox (talk) 19:15, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Career section
There is a reference to the song "King of the Road" which should be made a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Road_%28song%29 Jcm75 (talk) 00:14, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2015
Kevin Spacey served as executive producer on 2010's "The Social Network," and thusly should be added to his filmography.

64.72.222.15 (talk) 08:17, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  09:32, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 February 2015
Kevin Spacey also starred in a made-for-TV movie alongside Bernadette Peters that is not on his Wikipedia page's filmography. Below is a link to the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_from_Grace_(1990_film)

151.202.41.178 (talk) 02:13, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Stickee (talk) 02:57, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2015
In the personal life section at the end of the first paragraph, there is a citation needed. It's already in that same paragraph earlier, "Spacey's Odyssey". That citation can be filled out more with 'The Sunday Times Magazine', December 19, 1999. Pages 34-38.

2602:306:CE95:57B0:F0A9:3668:52E0:5848 (talk) 23:41, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

✅ Thank you for contributing. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:57, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

36 episodes in House of Cards?
Should be 39. 68.197.176.34 (talk) 02:41, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2015
On April 12, 2015, he was awarded a special Olivier Award in recognition for his tenure as the artistic director of the Old Vic Theatre London. The award was given not for the Hollywood glamour he brought to the Old Vic as its artistic director over the past 10 years but for the remarkable and lasting transformation he has achieved there.

Robert wkfrd (talk) 07:43, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 10:53, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 June 2015
Frodgers01 (talk) 05:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done – added alma mater to infobox. Thanks, Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 07:38, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Honorary British knighthood
The UK recently bestowed an honorary knighthood on Spacey for his long-standing services to the performing arts in that country. Spacey is not a British citizen, so he is not styled "Sir...", but he is granted use of the associated post nominal letters. It is a very significant recognition (essentially, the second-highest state honour for foreign civillians), so it seems odd that the post nominals to which he is entitled are not there the first time his name is given. Might the opening line not better read:


 * Kevin Spacey Fowler, KBE (born July 26, 1959), better known as Kevin Spacey, is …

? 62.156.255.22 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:15, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2016
Add appropriate honor title of "Sir" to name space.

23.30.219.158 (talk) 18:09, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * ❌ - because, although he has a KBE as a US citizen he is not "Sir". This is explained in Order of the British Empire
 * "Honorary knighthoods are appointed to citizens of nations where Queen Elizabeth II is not Head of State, and may permit use of post-nominal letters but not the title of Sir"
 * Don't ask me why, but that is the rule - Arjayay (talk) 18:23, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 November 2012
Spelling mistake – under

Sunday Times
"love affair with acting, and the absence of a visible partner in the life of an attractive 40-year-old, has resulted in misunderstanding and Esquire magazine's bet-hedging assertion two years ago that he must be gay"

The above is what the Sunday Times asserted not Kevin Spacey

EDIT REQUEST
The article lists him as sole valedictorian. "... Chatsworth High School in Chatsworth, Los Angeles, California where he graduated valedictorian of his class."

He actually was co valedictorian with classmate Mare Winningham. The article should also mention that he gradated high school in Spring 1977.

Source = http://www.cinequest.org/events/159568/conversation-kevin-spacey

Ammobox (talk) 21:34, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

EDIT REQUEST
The article lists him as sole valedictorian. "... Chatsworth High School in Chatsworth, Los Angeles, California where he graduated valedictorian of his class."

He actually was co valedictorian with classmate Mare Winningham.

The article should also mention that he gradated high school in Spring 1977.

Source = http://www.cinequest.org/events/159568/conversation-kevin-spacey

Ammobox (talk) 00:26, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅. Thanks. Sundayclose (talk) 00:57, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

the year he graduated from high school
There is a typo regarding the year he graduated from high school. The year is erroneously typed as "1997" rather than 1977. Refer to previous edit request for verification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.105.116.10 (talk) 03:40, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

✅ Thanx,  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 03:44, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2016
Kevin Spacey was recently knighted by Prince Charles of Wales. He can now style his name as Kevin Spacey KBE, which I think could be updated on his Wikipedia page. AbhishekXLR8 (talk) 20:05, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It's listed at List of awards and nominations received by Kevin Spacey and does not need to be in the parent article. Incidentally, as an American citizen, his knighthood is only honorary. The KBE style is not officially used in that case. Sundayclose (talk) 22:16, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Citation Needed
The Article currently states "...He attended Northridge Military Academy, Canoga Park High School[citation needed] (in tenth and eleventh grades),..."

The citation needed is: The Canoga Park High School Utopian Yearbook - for the senior years of 1975 and 1976 has Kevin Fowler's picture, listing him as K. Fowler. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ammobox (talk • contribs) 23:05, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Citation Needed
Early life - citation update

The Article currently states "... He attended Northridge Military Academy, Canoga Park High School[citation needed] (in tenth and eleventh grades), ..."

The citation needed is: Canoga Park High School Utopian Yearbook - for the senior years of 1975 and 1976. These books have his picture, listing him as K. Fowler. There are additional images of him in the schools plays in the drama section of these yearbooks.

Ammobox (talk) 19:02, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Citation Needed
Early life - citation update

The Article currently states "... He attended Northridge Military Academy, Canoga Park High School[citation needed] (in tenth and eleventh grades), ..."

The citation needed is: Canoga Park High School Utopian Yearbook - for the senior years of 1975 and 1976. These books have his picture, listing him as K. Fowler. There are additional images of him in the schools plays in the drama section of these yearbooks.

Ammobox (talk) 19:02, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080420102041/http://www.drivingmrspacey.com/TheImproperBostonian.htm to http://www.drivingmrspacey.com/TheImproperBostonian.htm
 * Added tag to http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2004/edition_12-05-2004/in_step_with_0
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111017163921/http://www.oldvictheatre.com/whatson.php?id=75 to http://oldvictheatre.com/whatson.php?id=75
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090108041148/http://www.drivingmrspacey.com/TheSundayTimesMagazine.htm to http://www.drivingmrspacey.com/TheSundayTimesMagazine.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060709174702/http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Kevin_Spacey.php to http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Kevin_Spacey.php

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External links modified
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External links modified
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Citation Needed
Provided

Early life - citation update

The Article currently states "... He attended Northridge Military Academy, Canoga Park High School[citation needed] (in tenth and eleventh grades), ..."

The citation needed is: Canoga Park High School Utopian Yearbook - for the senior years of 1975 and 1976. These books have his picture, listing him as K. Fowler. There are additional images of him in play productions in the drama section of these yearbooks.

Ammobox (talk) 20:37, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2017
There are some issues with the citations under Personal life:


 * Reference 49's (Sunday Times) archive link should be fixed to: https://web.archive.org/web/20090108041148/http://www.drivingmrspacey.com/TheSundayTimesMagazine.htm.
 * The last sentence on the second alinea references "personal" where it should be "Personal" instead (the different capitalization created reference 51 with a cite error).
 * Reference 50 (Playboy) has a dead URL at the time of writing, and the archive link should be fixed to: https://web.archive.org/web/20090122053756/http://www.kevinspacey.de/Presse/Playboy_englisch/playboy_englisch.html

Thanks! BriefAeon (talk) 10:08, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Gulumeemee (talk) 11:11, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

This sentence: "In 2000, Spacey took -what he considered- his girlfriend to the Academy Awards, and he thanked her during the awards' acceptance speech for his Best Actor award. [51] Reports in 1999 and 2000 suggested that she was a script supervisor named Dianne Dreyer" - makes no sense. Consider removing the "what he considered" part?

Also the final sentence of that section has a link to Jude Law, again making no sense in the context.

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2017
On October 29th 2017, Star Trek: Discovery actor Anthony Rapp accused Kevin Spacey of making a pass at him when he was 14 years old after he attended a party at Spacey’s New York apartment in 1986.

In an interview with Buzzfeed News, Rapp alleged he attended the party on his own after befriending Spacey and was the only non-adult there. Becoming bored, Rapp went into a bedroom and watched TV until after midnight, when he realized no one else was left in the apartment. At that point, Rapp said that Spacey entered the bedroom, picked him up, and climbed on top of him in a sexual advance. Spacey would have been 26 at the time.

Source: variety.com/2017/biz/news/kevin-spacey-anthony-rapp-sexual-advance-1202602082/ 98.213.142.131 (talk) 03:48, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Nihlus  05:15, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2017
He stated in a Twitter statement that he is now openly gay. 137.159.148.119 (talk) 04:04, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Nihlus  05:15, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2017
Section: Personal life The first sentence in this section contains two assertions not corroborated by a WP:RS. It has remained in the article for over a decade and has at no point in time ever been supported by a source. A citation needed template was added to it two months ago. I hereby challenge this sentence per WP:BLP and demand its immediate removal. (I am unable to quote the text here due to WP:BLP. It describes his alleged political party and names a former statesman who is his alleged friend.) 2600:8800:1880:C359:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 06:07, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * A source has been added. WWGB (talk) 06:23, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Headshot image distorted
Is it just me, or is the infobox image stretched vertically for some reason? There are no size attributes included, and it looks OK on Commons, so what is up with that? 2600:8800:1880:C359:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The image was updated to be cropped. You may need to clear your cache. See WP:BYPASS. Nihlus  18:59, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Removed per WP:BLP
[Removed per WP:BLP] 2600:8800:1880:C359:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 14:08, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Not without a citation. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 12:58, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Is sexuality even noteworthy?
I generally don't take note of famous people's Wikipedia entries, however, I noticed recently that a lot of articles always mention a person's sexuality, particularly if they are homosexual... is this even noteworthy anymore? "In 201X, person Y came out as gay".... Is this relevant to a Wikipedia article? John arneVN (talk) 07:06, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * After years of denial, yes. WWGB (talk) 07:53, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I disagree. There's no obligation for anyone to disclose such personal details. Unless in denying it he was being a hypocrite, but I see no evidence of that. It's quite possible that he was unsure. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 12:21, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, why not ? M.Karelin (talk) 08:13, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's certainly noteworthy, but all the sexuality-related categories should probably go per WP:CATDEFINING. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 09:44, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's of tabloid interest to some but, IMO, hardly noteworthy these days. What bothers me about WP is that when someone famous enough to have a biography page comes out a whole host of LGBT category tags get added. This seems discriminatory to me since confirmed straight people have no equivalent classification. I suppose I'm against pigeonholing but that doesn't necessarily sit well with encyclopædia editors who have a desire to classify and sub-classify everything. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 18:23, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I can see why his coming out is noteworthy in terms of his personal life, but is the accusation of assault and Spacey's subsequent apology: Spacey's personal life. Shouldn't it be under controversy or apology for assault allegation or something similar. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 18:40, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * How would the two things be separated into Personal life and a new section, when KS apologised and came out in the same tweet? Jim Michael (talk) 23:08, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * By using two sub-headings. There are 5 different references. Begin part of it under controversy or apology for assault allegation heading, and then under Spacey's personal life say "In the same tweet in which Spacey appologised to Anthony Rapp, he also said...." A distinction should be made. If you were assaulted by someone would you say "oh, that's [name of attacker]'s personal life." I've also noticed it on Anthony Rapp's blp, how is it Rapp's personal life? Surely a person's personal life should involve consent. I think it may be a breach of WP:AVOIDVICTIM. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 02:07, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that the allegation and apology ought to be in a separate section from his personal life. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 12:21, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay I've separated them. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 01:32, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That's a big improvement. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 17:29, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

British citizenship?
The article says "In September 2006, Spacey said that he intends to take up British citizenship when it is offered to him." Well, was it and did he? 83.104.249.240 (talk) 18:26, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * There's something odd about that statement. It may be an actual quote, but under normal circumstances no country "offers" citizenship to anyone.  Individuals need to apply or petition, and after certain conditions are met, a country may grant citizenship. — Quicksilver (Hydrargyrum)T @ 20:59, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I checked the two citations given. The Daily Telegraph one (a reliable source) says "He [Spacey] also disclosed that he is planning to take up dual citizenship after making Britain his permanent home" and "'I think if I live here [London] for as long as I hope, I can have dual citizenship which would make things much easier,' he [Spacey] said." The other source appears to be a fan site describing itself as "Driving Mr. Spacey!: The positively untrue life and times of Kevin Spacey, with a few real facts thrown in for fun." which devalues it somewhat as a reference. 83.104.249.240 (talk)


 * This is what Kevin Spacey himself had to say whilst chatting backstage with Alastair Campbell in October 2010, and he was awarded an honorary knighthood in the Queen's Birthday Honours in 2015. If he were a British Citizen then it would be a knighthood rather than an honorary knighthood and he would be Sir Kevin Spacey.


 * There is also this comment from July 2016: ...asked about the EU referendum, Spacey said: "I appreciate you asking me the question, but I am not a British citizen, I am a resident of Great Britain.


 * "And I have never in my 12 years ever gotten involved in politics in Great Britain. I think it's inappropriate for me as a, really as a guest, in Great Britain, so I'll leave that to the British people." --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 14:46, 31 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the sentence should simply be removed then. His American nationality is made clear elsewhere in the article and his residence is given as London in the infobox. He may well have desired dual citizenship at the time he was artistic director of the Old Vic but for some reason he didn't pursue it. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 17:36, 31 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I've left the original statement, as it is what he said in the past, but I've removed the fan website ref. I've also added his comments from 2016. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 01:07, 1 November 2017 (UTC)


 * That's better, though, as pointed out by Quicksilver, the original statement doesn't really make sense and there's no reference to it in the Daily Telegraph citation. It simply reports Spacey's claim that it would be convenient for him to have dual citizenship, not that he was waiting for it to be bestowed upon him. Or, perhaps, "'I think if I live here for as long as I hope, I can have dual citizenship which would make things much easier,' he said" could be interpreted that way. Perhaps he did believe at the time that if he lived in London for long enough he would be offered citizenship. Perhaps the safest thing would be to delete the words when it is offered to him. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 17:49, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Under the table assault
The sourcing on the "under the table" assault is pretty poor. Only one decent source confirms it, as well as deadline.com and the Daily Mail. Also, what did he do? we have no idea. This is just gossip and should be removed until it appears in multiple good sources.96.127.244.67 (talk) 01:34, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I was going to agree and delete it but since the source is The Boston Globe and it is reported speech: "Heather Unruh said that she had witnessed" then I think it's okay to stay for now. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 02:36, 1 November 2017 (UTC)--The Vintage Feminist (talk) 02:36, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * sure, but it's only one reliable source. it sounds true enough, but what if the single source has it wrong?96.127.244.67 (talk) 20:54, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * maybe it's ok after all, Crimoneline.com and  Perez Hilton are covering it. Not.96.127.244.67 (talk) 21:05, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Article only mentions two allegations against Spacey
Why does the article only mention two sexual abuse allegations against Kevin Spacey if there are even more against him? 2001:569:7733:AD00:AD6F:C935:4788:3388 (talk) 08:15, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You know articles don't magically appear and get updates right? People edit them. Rather than complaining that something isn't included in an article, include it. It's so annoying how often these comments pop up when the person can just edit it themselves instead of complaining that no one else has done it. Microbat98 (talk) 17:58, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

"Sleazy Spacey Showed Me His Clock"
British barman Daniel Beal says Spacey flashed at him outside a hotel then handed over his £5,000 watch to hush him up. Beal was having a cigarette break when Spacey sat beside him on a bench, flashed his privates and said: “It’s big, isn’t it?”. Beal was working at the bar in the Goodwood Park Hotel, West Sussex in 2010. This is reported in The Sun newspaper here https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4812932/kevin-spacey-flashed-british-barman-watch-buy-silence/ and in many others. There is a picture of the watch. The guy is a total sleazeball. 86.187.174.110 (talk) 18:19, 2 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Meh, it's a rather silly story. --Fæ (talk) 18:53, 2 November 2017 (UTC)


 * How do we know this is anywhere near true? It's an easy way for someone to embroider an incident, or make one up entirely, just to get a few pounds from a "total sleazeball" tabloid newspaper? What power does Spacey have to defend this claim? It sounds like someone jumping on a tabloid bandwagon. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:40, 3 November 2017 (UTC)


 * But I see it's also repeated by the BBC source currently used in that section. So maybe there is a case for mentioning it? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That particular story seems to have odd elements and though if true it shows that Spacey was being exceptionally stupid and seedy, it seems unlikely to go anywhere apart from making a good headline pun for the Sun. The Sun article and the BBC article read differently, with the BBC dropping the part about "Spacey’s management then made a complaint to the hotel about Dan" and that "he got a call from a man who said he was Spacey", which the BBC seems to be taking as a fact that this was Spacey making the call. The inconsistencies make this look far more like seedy gossip rather than encyclopaedic facts with long term value. At the end of the day this story is not about an employer misusing their position, nor is it about someone making sexual advances to a minor, nor is it about anyone being touched inappropriately. It is about someone that made £3k by selling a watch, and apparently being delighted about making the money and having a story about a celeb. flashing their cock in an apparent drunken moment. --Fæ (talk) 12:56, 4 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Those are quite subtle differences, so I'm not sure they affect the veracity, or otherwise, of the story. But I wouldn't be surprised if The Sun paid for the story just so they could run that terrible headline pun. It seems that Beal is now in the Army, so the experience must have been quite traumatic. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:05, 4 November 2017 (UTC) p.s. also turns up in The Indy.

"Members of the LGBTQ community"
The article uses the phrase "members of the LGBTQ community" and then lists some celebrities who are active on social media and are identified as LGBT+ as criticising "Spacey's timing of coming out". This does not read as encyclopaedic to my eyes, as it implies that all LGBT+ people are in one big club and the listed celebrities officially talk for us, similar to saying "Ask the Gays" which is read by most as offensive. I suggest the phrase is replaced by something more factual and neutral, such as "many established advocates for LGBT+ causes criticised...". --Fæ (talk) 22:44, 3 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The wording was fine to me. People will obviously know that we don't mean "all LGBT people." The fact remains that LGBT people in particular had an issue with the timing of Spacey's coming out, per what I noted in the section above -- the association with pedophilia. This edit was disingenuous since all of those people are quite clearly part of the LGBT community and it's easy to find sources noting that LGBT celebrities spoke out against the timing of Spacey's coming out. The text could have easily been re-worded to "Some members of the LGBT community." And the WP:Weasel wording aspect is easily taken care of by the fact that names are given via WP:In-text attribution. "LGBT" should be re-added in some context. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:29, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

hebephilia
I have removed the word hebephilia. Spacey has not been accused of this specifically, and it should not be used without supporting reliable sources due to its technical and potentially criminal reading. --Fæ (talk) 12:09, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Note (to those who didn't already know): The term pedophilia was previously used. As I noted in the section above, sources are incorrectly using that term. But they are using it. Fargo44 changed the wording to hebephilia. Fæ changed the wording to "sexual abuse of minors." It may be that we should not use "sexual abuse of minors" either unless the sources are using that wording. I know that sources are using "sexual assault," which is a form of sexual abuse, but it may be best to state "sexual assault of minors." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:29, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The twincities reference at the end of that sentence says "Worse, he seemed to make a connection between being gay and sexual abuse of minors", so this is the precise phrase from the source, not my words as an editor. So far, I have found no sources at all that use the word "hebephilia". Thanks --Fæ (talk) 20:30, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Fresh images?
Hallo there,

earlier this year I creative some pics of Kevin Spacey. They have a Creative Commons license and may add value to the article since they existing pictures are about four years old.

--Wuestenigel (talk) 04:58, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, User:Wuestenigel. I hope you don't mind that I've moved one of your images up a bit. I wonder could you sign your post? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:55, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

House of Cards cancelled
"The decision to end the drama had been made prior to the allegations." - so why is this even mentioned? Does this imply the studio was in some way tipped off, before the allegations became public? Or when and why was that decision taken? I think this should be clarified. The word "amidst" doesn't look very convincing there. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:50, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I see we now have "Sources stated that the decision to end the drama had been made prior to the allegations." Still seems to me that the article is very strongly suggesting that the cancellation was the direct result of the allegations. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:00, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It would be useful to see a summary of exactly how the most reliable sources have expressed this. The water is especially muddy due to sensationalist reporting, so what exactly wast stated by the production company gets reinterpreted or lost. --Fæ (talk) 13:03, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2017
IN SECTION ON PERSONAL LIFE, CHANGE

Suggesting a link between the two topics by combining them in one tweet was frowned upon.

TO

Some people criticized Spacey for writing about the two topics in a single tweet, implicitly suggesting a link between them.

ALTHOUGH I PERSONALLY AGREE THAT COMBINING THE TWO TOPICS IN ONE TWEET WAS INAPPROPRIATE, IT IS NOT NEUTRAL TO SUGGEST THAT EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD FROWNED UPON THE TWEET. CURRENTLY, "SOME PEOPLE" IS ACCURATE. PERHAPS IN THE COMING DAYS "MANY PEOPLE" WILL BE MORE ACCURATE. IT WILL NEVER BE "ALL PEOPLE".

MY EDIT ALSO CLARIFIES THE REASON FOR PEOPLE THINKING IT IS INAPPROPRIATE. 71.227.234.209 (talk) 20:31, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * "Some people"? Which people? Provide a reference.  Without a reference, the sentence would be challenged and probably removed for being "weasel words", per Wikipedia policy.  Moreover, printing in ALL CAPITALS is considered shouting on the Web and is considered rude. — Quicksilver (Hydrargyrum)T @ 20:56, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I only just noticed this thread. Josh Rivers editor of Gay Times and Linda Riley publisher of Diva have both been critical of Spacey's tweet as reported by the BBC. I mentioned in a thread above (Is sexuality even noteworthy?) that just because Spacey conflated the two things in a single tweet doesn't mean that Wikipedia should, for me it's a breach of WP:AVOIDVICTIM. If you were assaulted by someone would you be happy for it to be reported that you are part of his/her personal life now? --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 02:32, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

-I came here to laugh at how jacked up Wikipedia has become, and was surprised. This is probably the best way to address recent events. "In late October 2017, Spacey came out as gay after actor Anthony Rapp alleged that Spacey, while appearing drunk, made a sexual advance to him in 1986, when Rapp was 14 years old.[59][60] In response, Spacey said he did not remember the encounter, but that if he behaved as described by Rapp, he owes him "the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior."[61] Spacey disclosed that "I have had relationships with both men and women. I have loved and had romantic encounters with men throughout my life, and I choose now to live as a gay man."[62][63] Spacey's statement drew negative reactions for its combination of the two topics, as many noted Rapp's gender was not the issue.[64] The public argued on social media that Spacey's decision to come out was used to distract from allegations of underage sexual assault.[65]" Well done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.93.192 (talk • contribs) 14:50, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I trust you got the laugh you came here for. Apart from that it's really not clear what point you're trying to make. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 12:28, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Is it really that hard to understand I think the above quoted in the article is the fairest way to address recent events? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.133.114 (talk) 05:07, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Which quoted article? If it has been quoted then you should be pleased that the fairest way to address recent events has been included. Are you saying that you came here expecting the article to be jacked up but were pleasantly surprised that it wasn't and are now applauding Wikipedia for getting it right? --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 11:06, 7 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Jacked up????? --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 14:00, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

2 errors to fix
I can't fix them because the page is semi protected, but ref 90 is dead, and in the personal life once it's spelled dianne, once diane. Pick one, (I guess with nn according to the refs.) B.G. 23:56, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, done. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 13:16, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Gawker
I already removed The Sun as a tabloid source from that gossip line about Helen Hunt and Jennifer Jason Leigh. But I see now that Gawker is quoting from the Daily Star which is just as bad, if not worse. Should it be removed altogether? There's also a Daily Mail source earlier on, but I'm not going to touch that one for now. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:34, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm removing the Gawker quoting Daily Star claim. It's trivial (who he dated around some point in time) and it's an aside in a gossip article about Spacey hooking up with some male model. And it's Gawker quoting a trashy British tabloid. Cjhard (talk) 23:15, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

A separate main article regarding the Kevin Spacey sexual allegation controversy
Just like the Harvey Weinstein sexual allegation controversy, would that be necessary that a separate article regarding sexual harassment allegations against Kevin Spacey be established? Saiph121 (talk) 04:37, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No. See WP:ANTICIPATION. The two sets of allegations are nowhere near comparable at this point. Nihlus  04:40, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * +1 No. --Fæ (talk) 10:48, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Sexual assault allegations in lede
Should the lede really include the recent sexual assault allegations against Spacey? I feel that that's WP:UNDUE considering how recent these allegations are, and Spacey has had a relatively long and notorious career. I think it should be removed unless the allegations attain the level of notoriety of the Harvey Weinstein scandal. NoMoreHeroes (talk) 23:34, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Tend to agree. That is all they currently are. Just uncontested allegations. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:37, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Your comments are voided because of Spaceys recent comments stating he is "seeking treatment" and also he says "it was drunken behaviour". It is clear that he is admitting to his crimes thus these are no longer "uncontested allegations" but hard facts. CnocBride (talk) 01:15, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That is beside my point. I'm not judging whether he admitted or not (although the lede doesn't help in that regard since it doesn't clarify that). My point is that it is UNDUE to prominently include this recent scandal in the lede section since it is a brief aspect of Spacey's biography and he has been a major actor for decades. I support keeping the scandal only in the body of the article unless it reaches the Weinstein scale of sexual assault scandals. NoMoreHeroes (talk) 02:01, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This is a widely reported story and there should be little doubt that the allegations should indeed be mentioned in the lead, because of the amount of coverage they have received in the media. They will inevitably have an enduring impact, and it is thus irrelevant that they happened only recently. It is also irrelevant whether the accusations are true or not (if Spacey were somehow shown to be totally innocent, then the lead would mention that too). FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 02:31, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No, they shouldn't be contained in the lead (not yet, anyway). See WP:LEAD: Well-publicized recent events affecting a subject, whether controversial or not, should be kept in historical perspective. I feel we are not far away enough from the publicizing of the event to accurately judge its historical impact. Also see WP:RECENT. Nihlus  02:35, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No. You have missed the point of what the MOS actually states. To quote it more fully: "When writing about controversies in the lead of the biography of a living person, notable material should neither be suppressed nor allowed to overwhelm: always pay scrupulous attention to reliable sources, and make sure the lead correctly reflects the entirety of the article. Write clinically, and let the facts speak for themselves. Well-publicized recent events affecting a subject, whether controversial or not, should be kept in historical perspective. What is most recent is not necessarily what is most notable: new information should be carefully balanced against old, with due weight accorded to each." What you are advocating is suppression of controversy. Please note the words "is not necessarily" in the MOS. There can obviously be cases where recent events are some of the most important. Here we have one of them. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 06:56, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * As for WP:RECENT, it isn't a rule dictating that recent events can never be mentioned and it would be idiotic if it was. Note it states, "When dealing with contemporary subjects, editors should consider whether they are simply regurgitating media coverage of an issue or actually adding well-sourced information that will remain notable over time." The allegations against Spacey obviously are something that will remain significant over time. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 07:00, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with User:Nihlus. We do not yet know the importance of these allegations in relation to his entire life and career. I also wholly disagree with CnocBride that Spacey's own comments have transformed these allegation into "hard facts". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:38, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I also agree, the controversy is too recent to gauge how it will be viewed over time. I'm inclined to believe that it will end up back at some point but I don't have a WP:CRYSTALBALL. Best to exclude for the time being.LM2000 (talk) 11:16, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Martinevans123 and LM2000, you have both missed the point. The question isn't whether we know precisely how the controversy and the allegations will be viewed in decades to come; the question is whether we can judge now that they are the kind of material likely to be of long-term importance. It is perfectly obvious that they are. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 20:06, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it's not obvious to me. He's lost a film, he's lost a series, he's lost his agency. He might bounce back. Nobody knows. But he's had quite a full and successful career. Currently one of those four paragraphs in the lede is solely about the accusations of sexual advances. Maybe it just needs trimming down a bit? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:09, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that even if Spacey did "bounce back", that wouldn't alter the fact that these allegations would still be a major event in his life, and would require a prominent mention in his article. But I'm not going to go on endlessly arguing the point with you. This discussion is pointless unless other editors are going to weigh in. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 22:42, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It is by no means "pointless" as multiple editors (four at this point) have mentioned they are concerned with it. Disagreeing with it does not dismiss it entirely, and, fortunately, we use consensus here. Nihlus  22:44, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not convinced that there is a consensus on the matter, and I note that as of now the accusations are still mentioned in the lead, which is as it should be. If you want to establish a clear consensus for or against mentioning the accusations in the lead, perhaps you should start a request for comment? FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 22:46, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not endless. It's not just me. Give them a chance. But good luck with that ball of yours. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:47, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No, this discussion is rather one sided for its exclusion, with only you bludgeoning every comment implying that others are "missing the point" multiple times and calling the discussion pointless. That is a pretty clear consensus. A RfC would be overkill at this point. Nihlus  22:50, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not the only user who favors including that material in the lead. It was Treybien who originally added the material, not me. You should consult him for his opinion. I believe that only a small minority of users interested in the article have even commented on the issue at this stage, and that a request for comment would be perfectly appropriate. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 23:00, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Several men have made allegations against KS, which have been widely reported. Netflix has fired him. He has gone from being an A-lister to a pariah in the space of less than a week. He has lost the International Emmy Founders Award - which he was due to collect on 20 Nov - because of the allegations. Even if he isn't prosecuted, he manages to resume his acting career, and he lives to 100; the allegations and their effects will still have been a major part of his life and career path and will be mentioned in his obituaries. Jim Michael (talk) 00:46, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Returning to the opening question here, so do you think the allegations are on a par with those made against Harvey Weinstein? Perhaps the lede of that article could be used for the purposes of comparison? Or do we need to be less careful when it's unlikely there will be any criminal charges? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:23, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The allegations against KS & HW are similar in that there are sexual assault complaints by people against them which have massively changed their lives. Both men were powerful, important people in the film industry who are now pariahs. Of course we should avoid libel or prejudicing any possible legal action on any article. Jim Michael (talk) 22:30, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You seriously see no difference in the seriousness of the allegations against these two, nor in their relative levels of "power"? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:50, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd say that the allegations against KS are worse, because two of them involve 14-year-olds. KS is much more famous and had multiple times more fans - he was socially much more powerful and influential than HW. Jim Michael (talk) 22:49, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Rapp claims to have been aged 14. There's another one? Are you saying Spacey raped people? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:54, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

I've made the refs about the allegations in the lead section the same as those in the Sexual assault allegations section. I'm not quite sure why it was necessary to introduce other more sensational refs from less reliable sources including blogs and a wikilink added as an external journal ref, diff. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 03:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Some mainstream media sources have reported the recent claim by another man that when he was 14 and KS was 24, they had a sexual relationship which he ended when he was 15 because KS tried to rape him. Jim Michael (talk) 00:01, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I see. So could you give us one of those mainstream media sources? If this is meant to be supporting a "fair summary" in the lede, it should be described and sourced in the article main body? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:40, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There was a TVLine ref which was added in this diff, which I got rid of in this diff it has a link to this article published on the website Vulture.com, I wouldn't call either of them "mainstream". If the intention of putting the assault allegations is to provide a summary of the article then the same refs should be used as are already in the Kevin Spacey section, especially if the new refs are incendiary. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 11:40, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I've added a ref from USA Today, which is certainly a mainstream media publication. He is accuser 10 of the 14 listed in that article. These accusations have caused an award to be withdrawn from him, a TV series he played the protagonist in to be cancelled, a film he was to star in to be cancelled and the complete removal of him from another film he was to star in. That major change to his career makes the allegations easily important enough to justify the paragraph about them in the lede. Jim Michael (talk) 10:53, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Reminder: Adding allegations requires multiple sources
Editors improving sections with allegations, please keep in mind WP:PUBLICFIGURE. This requires multiple reliable third party sources for an allegation, especially of the serious nature seen in the article. If the exact wording of an allegation only appears in one source, the article should not include it until multiple reliable sources can be referenced, and if you see an apparent allegation with only one source, it's worth fixing it. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:53, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2017
On November 8, 2017, Former WCVB news anchor, Heather Unruh, held a press conference in Boston, during which she stated that Spacey sexually assaulted her, then 18-year-old, son in July 2016. The alleged assault occurred at the Club Car restaurant on Nantucket. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ctash (talk • contribs) 18:25 8 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Are you suggesting this paragraph should be added somewhere? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:35, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I believe it should be added to the "Sexual assault allegations" section. Ctash )talk) 21:46, 9 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.170.136.183 (talk)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:07, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
Skimming the article, I did not see Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil discussed. Did I just miss it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.212.199.2 (talk) 18:58, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil appears only in relation to Spacey's somewhat limited discography. But then it did get only 48% on Rotten Tomatoes and lost $5 million. I am surprised, though, that Kevin Spacey filmography is hidden away in "See also". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:07, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sure many people will now see that movie as having some parallels to the events in Spacey's own real life. So it may be worthy of mention separately in the article, although "midnight in the garden of good and evil" isn't really the same as "4am in the South London park", is it ? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:51, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Filmography
Who deleted the section Filmography?! Main article: Kevin Spacey filmography — 188.162.64.125 (talk) 22:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

"Sexual affair" with people below the AoC
Up until now, people have only claimed that Spacey has assaulted minors above the AoC. Now, this week's print issue of Der Spiegel claims on p. 122-123 that Spacey carried on a "sexual affair" with a 14-year-old in 1983, when Spacey himself would have been 24. --2003:71:4E07:BB94:8DD1:AF05:353A:8463 (talk) 04:04, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Beginning of second paragraph: Kevin Spacey, has the current list of allegations including the one about "sexual affair" with a 14-year-old in 1983. The original source of the story is here, but it's not particularly reliable so it's probably a bad idea to single it out for a special mention. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 15:44, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't see any such mention in the entire article. The only mention of a 14-year-old is Rapp relating to 1986 (wrong year!) and to a minor offence where Spacey has lifted him up in a drunken state and then fell asleep on him because of how drunk he was. Which is entirely different from maintaining a long openly "sexual affair" with a 14-year-old three years earlier. --2003:71:4E07:BB59:5DB9:6E6A:B4D1:170 (talk) 21:08, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Per PUBLICFIGURE, this would be a serious allegation to include and would require multiple sources. Der Spiegel may have the wrong end of the stick. Until other well respected newspapers pick this up and clarify the nature of the allegation, it should remain out of the article. --Fæ (talk) 21:17, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

LGBT categories
I am troubled by the immediate inclusion of 9 LGBT categories as soon as Spacey came out. What purpose does this excessive categorisation serve? Why is he an "LGBT screenwriter"? He does not write scripts about sexuality. There are no comparable categories for "Muslim screenwriters", "black screenwriters", "Republican screenwriters" etc. The extreme categorisation should be limited to a couple, perhaps "gay actors" and "LGBT entertainers from the United States". Thoughts? WWGB (talk) 23:16, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes. We're in agreement - see my comment in the section above questioning whether sexuality is even noteworthy. Furthermore, I'm not even happy with the two possible categories you suggest because his gayness or otherwise has no bearing on his ability as an actor or entertainer. There are some entertainers (Alan Carr and Julian Clary spring to mind) who have build their entire repertoire around their sexuality so categorising them as "gay entertainers" is fair enough, but not in the case of the subject of this article. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 13:18, 31 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree with WWGB. The article as it stands today treats the subject surprisingly well, but LGBT categories seem to be an aggressive way to make a "statement" via Wikipedia.Closedthursday (talk) 21:08, 31 October 2017 (UTC)


 * There was a discussion a while ago (I've not been able to track down a link) about the use of height / weight / bust size in infoboxes on women when they are not models and it was not relevant to their careers. At the time I also questioned why, with so many parameters in the full list of parameters in the person infobox, was there no parameter for sexual orientation. It would then say homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual or unknown (or possibly something else). Nobody really had an answer as to why there is no such parameter.


 * Having said all of that, I am concerned about the tone of this thread, and the edit summary to this diff (which I have reverted by the way, as Spacey has always been gay). Perhaps it is category overkill, and perhaps there ought to be more categories such as "Muslim screenwriters", "black screenwriters", "Republican screenwriters" etc., but if Spacey had been out since Wikipedia began, as the singer Will Young has been, then he would have always had these categories attached to his blp. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 02:25, 1 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Policy (Edit: As Flyer22 notes, WP:DEFCAT is a guideline, not policy 23:39, 1 November 2017 (UTC) ) seems pretty clear that none of the LGBT-related categories are appropriate. Perhaps there will come a time when reliable sources consistently refer to Spacey as a "gay actor" or whatever, but that's clearly not the case right now.  I've removed the categories. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 03:08, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Reliable sources do not have to consistently qualify the word "actor" with the adjective "gay", in every single future instance of the word "actor" ever again appearing in coverage of Kevin Spacey, before he merits categorization as LGBT — the only relevance we require is that the person is reliably sourceable as having come out, thereby making it relevant to their public life by the act of having put it on the public record. By the same token, a writer who is out as LGBT does not necessarily have to write about LGBT topics before they merit categorization as an LGBT writer, nor do we have to be able to demonstrate that every single instance of reliable source coverage of them always calls them a "gay writer" rather than just a writer — all we require is evidence that they're reliably sourceable as out, as opposed to being sourced to rumour or speculation or hearsay. Bearcat (talk) 17:21, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

I do not understand the conclusion that LGBT categories are inappropriate. Spacey has very publicly identified himself as gay, in an active relationship with a man, and that this was an "open secret". The article even quotes the statement "I choose now to live as a gay man". There are literally hundreds of reliable sources to select from, so it certainly and obviously is "noteworthy". There never has been a BLP "requirement" that reliable sources consistently identify an actor as "gay actor", just as there as no requirement to identify "Irish-American actor", "disabled actor" or "jewish actor" in order to apply the relevant categories. I support adding LGBT categories so that Spacey is easier for the reader to find their BLP listed. --Fæ (talk) 15:29, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Comment: I suspect that one reason editors are opposing the inclusion of the LGBT categories is because of the association with pedophilia that the media has made (when criticizing Spacey's commentary), although they have once again misused the definition of pedophilia, which is problematic because it stifles getting the public to understand that topic and the topic of child sexual abuse. Pedophilia, which is a mental condition that Spacey very likely does not have, is not a crime; child sexual abuse is. And sources are not stating that Spacey committed child sexual abuse unless they are using the term more broadly than it is typically used. But I digress. Anyway, WP:DEFCAT is a guideline. WP:BLPCAT is a policy, and it states, "Category names do not carry disclaimers or modifiers, so the case for each content category must be made clear by the article text and its reliable sources. Categories regarding religious beliefs (or lack of such) or sexual orientation should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs or sexual orientation are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources." The Spacey sexual assault allegation, which has been tied to his coming out as gay, has quite clearly made his sexual orientation very relevant to his public image/career. And unlike Jodie Foster, whose LGBT categories were also debated, Spacey has explicitly acknowledged being gay. He should be in the gay and/or LGBT categories. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:05, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Note: At the time of my "more broadly than it is typically used" commentary above, I was specifically referring to sources stating that Spacey picked up Anthony Rapp and lied on top of him. Whatever laws would have to state on that, we do know that Rapp said that this was an attempt by Spacey to seduce him. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:17, 19 November 2017 (UTC)


 * We have a separate category tree for LGBT-related works, so "his works aren't LGBT-related" isn't a strong argument for not categorizing him in the LGBT people categories. Ultimately WP uses all kinds of demographic categories and includes all kinds of fluff that really has nothing to do with the reasons for which the subject is notable; Spacey's being gay is, and has been long before he came out, far more a part of what's known or significant about him than his being from New Jersey (or having attended Valley College, which I can't even see substantiated in the article). I get the "only use what's relevant to notability" argument, but that's really not how any of these categories are used in practice. –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 18:16, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Comment: The LGBT categories should be restored. Spacey has come out openly as gay, and his sexual orientation has been widely reported by the media, which considering his A-list celebrity status would have been news regardless of when and how it happened. Spacey's sexual orientation is entirely independent of any and all sexual assault allegations. If his coming out had been in different circumstances we would likely not even be having this discussion. Funcrunch (talk) 19:34, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Okay, I've restored them back as per this discussion. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 19:55, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I disagree with total removal for the reasons laid out above, but I do agree with 's proposal to limit categorization to just "Gay actors" and "LGBT entertainers from the United States". The other categories are just extensions of those.LM2000 (talk) 06:13, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Also cut from Carol Burnett Show 50th Anniversary
https://screenrant.com/kevin-spacey-carol-burnett-show-special/

This should be added to Gore being canceled, and him being cut from All the Money in the World. 92.229.101.152 (talk) 22:24, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

List of celebrities condemning Spacey
The section now has six unconnected celebrities condemning Spacey's response. This seems excessive and an undesirable open-ended list. It would be sufficient to have quotes from organizations that actually represent a significant LGBT+ cultural view, for example if GLAAD or similar had made a statement. The ever growing haphazard list of celebrities wanting to tweet or say something to reporters, are not representing anyone but themselves, none are there because of a special relationship to Spacey, and none of the comments is by itself notable or encyclopaedic. The paragraph appears to fail NOTNEWS. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The criticisms of KS are relevant and valid. Organisations (LGBT or not) aren't likely to make official statements about him, because they don't want to appear to have any connection to him. People and organisations who have worked with him, for him, or whom he has worked for, merely made quick statements to say that they've cut all ties with him. Jim Michael (talk) 08:46, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The open ended list is a pile-on in social media. If organizations are not making a statement, that's for good reason and social media quotes from random celebs on their Twitter streams are rarely encyclopaedic in the long term.
 * Listing allegations of sexual harassment from the self-identified victims is sufficient for this article. There's no significant benefit or long term value to include lists of reactions from well known people who have no special connection with Spacey. --Fæ (talk) 18:39, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Reportage based solely on single tweets from celebrities, rather than editorials, interviews, or with a recognizable direct connection to Spacey: --Fæ (talk) 10:47, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Lance Bass - the report from elle.com is a cut and pasted tweet. Original tweet.
 * 2) * Removed as single tweet journalism from article per NOTSCANDAL. diff
 * 3) Zachary Quinto -  the report from Huffington Post is another cut and pasted tweet. Though Quinto is indirectly connected to Rapp via acting in a Star Trek film, he has no obvious personal connection to Rapp or Spacey. Original tweet.
 * 4) * Removed as single tweet journalism, per NOTSCANDAL. diff
 * 5) Dan Savage - the sources, Time and NYT, are simply a list of tweets without any specific value added. Dan Savage is a well known LGBT writer/pundit, but has no personal relationship with Spacey nor any special insight into the allegations. Adding more words to the article about Savage's tweet than were in the original tweet, is unbalanced and not encyclopaedic.
 * 6) * Removed as single tweet journalism, per NOTSCANDAL. diff
 * Those pieces were not needed. So I am fine with their removals. I wouldn't call this a WP:NOTSCANDAL matter, though. There is no scandal mongering or gossip mongering; this is a scandal (per various reliable sources) and we are not merely repeating rumors. It's just that, in cases like these, we should assess whether some commentary is worth including and we should keep WP:Recentism in mind. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:06, 3 December 2017 (UTC)