Talk:Khat/Archive 1

in Islam
Where do muslims get the idea that they can bar Christians from using this plant? Do they think they own it?! Scorpionman 18:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The claims that it is "gaining popularity" among Christians for religious purposes is uncited; I'm removing it until someone has a source for these claims. Agivith 01:02, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Explain plz?
It says Orthodox Christians in Ethiopia can't use it because it's an anorexant...do they have a rule against artificially suppressing one's appetite? I feel this should be explained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.210.186 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * No, some Orthodox Christians use it now, but the church forbids it because it is a stimulant. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 21:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Somalia Islamists ban drug
That's my source, but I bad at editing and citing so someone else is free to do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imagica (talk • contribs) 17:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

France????
is khat legal in france? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benblue (talk • contribs) 20:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No. Added info. Miserlou 20:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Price Inflation
My math say Kenya exports at $2 per pound and the US imports it at $25 per pound. Really!? I wonder how man pounds of rice it would take to buy a pound of Khat in Mog? --Rcollman 23:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

khat in Debre Berhan University
News http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/01/26/tor-khat.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sonjaaa (talk • contribs) 18:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

uncited
On May 17, 2007 200 lbs. of Khat was found in a self storage facility in Louisville, KY.

uncited "fact" entered by an isp that has had been respoonsible for some vandalism. I'm not sure if it is a legit edit or not, and do not know how to cite the block as needing more inforation, can anyone verify this? Childhoodtrauma 18:46, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Apparently removed (I can't find it in the article). Probably for the best, because one-third of this article's references seem to be news reports.

Examples of why this article needs work
"Student chewing khat in Debre Berhan University,Ethiopia from Sela Dengay Funny Ato Getachew also chewing Chat president of Debre Berhan University also Chawing chat with Dr. Tamere Zewde (Academic Vice President ) Really? Not 9 or 11?

From the article:

""In Yemen it is so popular that 40% of the country's water supply goes towards irrigating it, with the percentage increasing by about 10% to 15% every year.""

The same fact, from the source cited (the BBC):

""Of the country's scarce water, 40% goes on irrigating khat - and khat cultivation is increasing by 10% to 15% a year.""

Not really the same thing, is it?

Finally, this statement:

""Withdrawal symptoms that may follow prolonged khat use include lethargy, mild depression, nightmares, and slight tremor. Long term use can precipitate the following effects: negative impact on liver function, permanent tooth darkening (of a greenish tinge), susceptibility to ulcers, and diminished sex drive. Khat is usually not an addictive drug, although there are some people who cannot stay without it for more than 4-5 days. They feel tired and have difficulty concentrating.""

So it isn't very addictive, but there are well-documented withdrawal symptoms? There is no source for the "not very addictive" statement anyway...and any fool can see that huge swaths of the population in certain countries are horribly addicted. Thus the withdrawal.

Not trying to throw stones here - I know nothing about Qat and have no business editing the article. But this article need a lot of work to be up to standard, and the three examples cited here are eggregious enough that I have added a Disputed tag. I hope some of the contributors who actually know a little bit about this substance will have a look. Kgdickey 13:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * While the only knowledge I have of the substance is from a book by P.J. O'Rourke, I cleaned up the article and integrated or corrected a lot. I'm just wondering, but do we need the list of countries and the status of Khat in them? The list could go on for a while, and I think except in certian cases (Australia and New Zealand, Great Britain) if it's simply a controlled substance we can list it as part of some form of a group, along with places it is uncontrolled. That would allow us to expand without making the article larger than it needs to be. In my opinion, we can also take out the section on Somalia from that group, since its content has been mentioned other places in the article. Ageofe 02:54, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The language journal VERBATIM (see www.verbatimmag.com), nominally a quarterly publlication but somewhat irregular in its appearance, has in the September, 2007, issue a lengthy piece on the experience and pleasures of chewing Khat (Qat) that may be worth noting in this article. Frankatca 16:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Qat in South Africa
Regarding this statement:

"In the town of Bohmensaka, South Africa the consumption of this product has been noted to date back to the 1500's. Tribes would chew on these at festivals and large gatherings. Khat was a delicacy to the natives and was customary to their nature."

I've never heard of the town of Bohmensaka, and Google returns nothing except links to this reference! Also, tribes don't tend to live in towns, or they certainly didn't in the 1500s. Finally, Khat... was customary to their nature is a nonsensical statement. I'd like to remove this.

Caroline Greenway 02:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This is documented in an article by Manton Hirst - see refs. in this article in the Daily Dispatch (East London SA): http://www.dispatch.co.za/1999/10/26/features/DRUGORNO.HTM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.236.145.80 (talk) 03:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

DJIBOUTI
Shouldn't Djibouti be mentioned in this too ? It's legal and widely used there too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.193.221 (talk • contribs) 02:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If you have info on it, it'd be great if you added it in. Perhaps nobody else workin on the article has that info —Preceding unsigned comment added by M4390116 (talk • contribs) 02:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

✅

orthography
The orthography branch of the Spanish Inquisition might as well relax. Not only are there various spellings of khat, qat, chat and totally different names, but one reason for that is that not all of them represent the same name in the same dialect. Khat has traditionally been used from the southern Cape throughout more than half of Africa, through to a sizeable slice of Asia. Not only is this more territory than Genghis Khan ever conquered, or even saw, but it is territory where the tribe over the hill might not know or even recognise your local dialect or usage of the plant, let alone, given that most of them were not even literate, your grandfather's or great-grandson's pronunciation.

That of course was the good news. What gives anyone the idea that every explorer who encountered the same word would transcribe it into the same spelling? Go to Project Gutenberg and consult Weekley. "The Romance of Names" for how patronymics varied in spelling just a century or two ago, just in England at that! Then check on how to pronounce some of the accepted spellings. For a really good laugh, tune in on discussions on how to pronounce Latin; then consult a diagram showing the size and duration and history of the regions where it was spoken.

And stop worrying. You think that quasi-Arabic is hard to spell and pernunce? Wait till you have tried some of the Celtic tongues. And of course, "Dearest creature in creation, Study English pronunciation" Not even to mention "English" spelling!

JeanGeilland (talk) 14:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Disagree with everything. There is an accepted way to render standard Arabic consonants; it should be qat. Now: why standard Arabic is better than dialectal? Well, dialectal Yemeni would be gaat. Dialectal Egyptian would be aat, dialectal Maghrebi would also be gaat. The "kh" is either used to denote another consonant altogether in Arabic (as in the names Khaled or Khalil), and to denote what we'd call a normal "k" when transliterating from Southern Asian languages (see the word "lakh" where the "h" is best ignored). Since the usage of the Indian subcontinent is immaterial here, the only accepted way is to use the "q", same as we do with Qadhafi, Qatar, Al-Quds, Qom, Iraq... elpincha (talk) 20:54, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Soon to be delegalized in Poland
This substance is on the list of

Ttg53 (talk) 14:11, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Book sources
From Jean Geilland (in South Africa) still struggling to manage this medium.

Here follow a few extracts from some books in my possession. Though most of the authors in question are by now deceased, the material is all still in copyright, but I think that as it stand here this amounts to fair quotation with full acknowledgement and due respect for some monumental works. The references I give are abridged from the title pages, but they should be adequate for most purposes. Unfortunately at least two of the books are badly out of print and I am not about to lend out my copies. You might find the originals in some major libraries.

First a quote from: The Genera Of Southern African Flowering Plants. Volume I Dicotyledons. R. Allen Dyer ISBN 0 621 02854 1. 1975

4629 CATHA Forsk. ex Scop., Introd. Hist. Nat. 228 (1777); Robson in Bol. Soc. Brot. 39: 34 (1965); under Celastrus by Sond. in FC. 1: 452 (1860). Lydenburgia Robson; Codd in Bothalia 9:124 (1966) Shrub or tree, unarmed, glabrous, with compressed, glaucous twigs. Leaves opposite on flowering shoots, alternate on older wood, petioled, lanceolate, with serrate margin; stipules soon caducous. Flowers in short, axillary cymes. Sepals 5, small, ovate, sometimes ciliate. Petals 5, much longer than sepals, oblong to elliptic. Disc saucer-shaped, with 5-crenate margin. Stamens 5, shorter than petals, filaments subterete; anthers 2-thecous. Ovary 3-locular, with 2 basal ovules in each loculus. Styles 3, free. Fruit capsular, oblong; seeds 1-3, reddish, oblong, with a wing below the point of attachment. Species 2, Africa, Madagascar, Arabia; Catha edulis, (Vahl) Forsk. ex Endl.; from tropics mainly in eastern Transvaal and Natal bush clumps to about Knysna in the Cape; C. cassinoides (Robson) Codd, endemic in Transvaal, Lydenburg district. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JeanGeilland (talk • contribs) 13:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

W&BB
The next quote is from:

THE MEDICINAL AND POISONOUS PLANTS OF SOUTHERN AND EASTERN AFRICA Being an account of their medicinal and other uses, chemical composition, pharmacological effects and toxicology in man and animal By

John Mitchell Watt and Maria Gerdina Breyer-Brandwijk

SECOND EDITION 1962

Note that I shall not at this time give the details of the references cited within the quoted text; for one thing I do not know how much interest there would be, or accordingly whether it would be worth the trouble. Many university libraries should have these books on their shelves, so I shall not at this time take the matter any further.

178 CELASTRACEAE

The fresh leaf and twig of Catha edulis Forsk. has been used as a stimulant not only in South Africa but more particularly in Arabia and Somalia by the Arab, in Abyssinia and Erithrea and in Tanganyika especially among the Masai and the Kikuyu. In South Africa the leaf and twig have been used chiefly by the Bushman, who make a stimulating beverage from the leaf as well as chewing the young shoot as a stimulant (D63). In Arabia (D22, P1, B265. M227, B319, H274), Abyssinia (D22, S83, B127, R174, C56, M120, H274), Somalia (C56), Erithrea (C56) and Tanganyika (B38) the leaf is chewed and used as a tea, in both cases as a stimulant. It has even been suggested that the plant might be used in place of tea and coffee as a beverage (B319) and it is actually served with coffee particularly in Abyssinia (H274). In Arabia and Abyssinia the leaf has been used as a protection against pestilence (D22) and in Arabia especially against bubonic plague (G47). The plant is cultivated (H274) in Arabia (G47, B319), Abyssinia (C56, G47), Erithrea (C56), Tanganyika (G47) and the Northern parts of Somalia. In Harrar and Yemen khat is an important item in social intercourse, especially at birth, circumcision, marriage and funeral services (H274). In addition, in Harrar, twigs of the plant are placed on a grave for seven days and a visitor to the grave chews a twig (H274).

The leaf is an inebriant narcotic with stimulant effects (G51, G53, P1, G42, B179, S83, B3, A163, H274). It produces a marked sustaining effect with release from fatigue and hunger feelings, as well as euphoria (R174. A163). It is said to have a slightly bitter, yet pleasant flavour, with a strong sweet taste of liquorice and has been regarded as nourishing (S79). Usually a twig of about ten leaves, weighing less than a gramme, is chewed (G47). This produces wakefulness, a feeling of well-being and mental alertness. It produces thirst and water is drunk at intervals during khat chewing. Taken in excess it produces inebriant effects which simulate those of alcohol (G47) and ultimately a deep stupor (P89). Recovery from the stupor is characterized by listlessness and quarrelsomeness, associated with antagonism to authority (P89). Immoderate use, if persisted in, produces a condition in which the habitué lives in a dream world, in which the khat chewer becomes mentally divorced from reality and develops deterioration in character (P89, H274). He becomes increasingly apathetic, dull in intellect and unable to concentrate; he is no longer able to work and becomes a burden on his family and friends (P89). He also becomes a liar (P89, C42) and acquires an attitude of irresponsible fearlessness (P89, E2). It has even been under suspicion of causing cardiac effects (H274). Similar effects are described from French Somaliland (K310).

As a rule the young leaf and twig are chewed fresh (347) but in Ethiopia (B4) and in Abyssinia (H274) they are also eaten as a paste made with honey, while in Tanganyika they are sometimes taken with sugar (B47). In Arabia the dry leaf is sometimes smoked like tobacco (B47). A 1:16 infusion is also said to have been used (P229). In the past the young leaf attached to the young branchlets, 6 to 8 inches long, was bound into bundles which were wrapped in grass to prevent withering (G47. B4). Nowadays it is said to be difficult to find such packings in East Africa but we illustrate one which had unfortunately dried out a bit before we had the opportunity of photographing it. The bundles are said to keep fresh for a week and have often been transported successfully over long distances (G47). The connoisseur distinguishes quite a number of varieties of khat and these have been fully described by Greenway (G47). Two good historical reviews of the use and effects of khat are by Greenway (G47) and Peters (P89) and the control of khat by legislation has been considered in East Africa (E3). The wood is used in Kenya and Tanganyika for rafters, building poles (B38, G47), and in Tanganyika for making spoons and combs and as fuel (G47, B38). It has also been used in cabinet-making and for pulping. In Tanganyika the leaf and root are used as an influenza remedy (G47), the root for stomach troubles (G47, B38) and the leaf to improve dental health (A163). In South Africa in the early days it has been used for cough, asthma and other diseases of the chest. It has been erroneously suggested (H221, H210) that Catha edulis may be useful in the treatment of impaired memory. Extracts of the plant have given negative antibiotic tests (K23, O13).

Flückiger and Gerock (T6) isolated an alkaloid katine from the leaf and Mosso (T6) an alkaloid celastrine which were regarded by Tschirch (T6) as identical. Beitter (B12) isolated katine C10H18ON2, a strongly odorous volatile oil, tannin and mannitol from the leaf and 50-78 per cent of fixed oil from the seed. The tannin has been found to the extent of 14 per cent of catechol tannins (P309). Dulcitol has also been isolated from the leaf (P221). Stockman (S74) has isolated three alkaloids which he named cathine 0.27 per cent, cathinine 0.15 per cent and cathidine 0.32 per cent, the presence of which has been confirmed (P309). Wolfes (W197) finds that cathine is d-norisoephedrine C9H13ON, a soluble crystalline alkaloid mp 77.5-78C. It is odourless and strongly alkaline and is isolated to the extent of 0.03-0.08 per cent. Full details of the chemistry of this substance are to be found in Henry (H218) and Manske (M277). Flückiger and Gerock and Mosso did not find any caffeine in the plant although Henry (H218) states that the flower contains a purine derivative.

Chevalier (C200) finds that cathine has a stimulant-narcotic action on the central nervous system, similar to that of cocaine but with no analgesic or anaesthetic properties. It has cardiotoxic effects similar to those of caffeine. Stockman (S75) records that cathine, cathinine and cathidine, although they differ in detail, all produce a stimulant-narcotic action resembling somewhat that of cocaine and caffeine. Cathinine does not depress the brain in the way that cathine does and is more stimulant to the spinal cord. Both cathine and cathidine in large doses, paralyse motor nerve terminations. Cathadine has much less stimulant effect on the nervous system and more marked muscle depression. Trellu (T211) also discusses the pharmacodynamics of khat and cathine. Leete (L264) says that the principal alkaloid is d-norpseudoephedrine which is synthesized in the aerial parts of the plant.

Fifty milligrammes of khat has a sedative effect but 300 to 400 mg. produces hyperexcitability, mydriasis, spinal convulsions and death from respiratory paralysis (R174). Sub-lethal doses increase the respiration and body temperature and heighten sensory perception (R174). The subcutaneous injection of 10 mg./kg. of the total alkaloids in the mouse results in passing muscular relaxation and 10 per cent mortality (P309). The infusion and a tea of the plant produces a higher mortality (P309). It appears, therefore, that the whole effect of the plant is not due only to the alkaloidal content (P309). The opinion is expressed that the khat habit is no more harmful than the tobacco habit (R174).

The action of d-norisoephedrine closely mimics that of ephedrine but is weaker than l- and dl-ephedrine (C216). Ephedrine (G187, G210) acts by inhibiting the action of an enzyme system which normally destroys adrenaline, or the substance closely resembling it, produced by adrenergic nerves. Amine oxidase does not destroy ephedrine but, in the presence of ephedrine, this enzyme is prevented from destroying adrenaline. Ephedrine is therefore essentially a symphathomimetic substance and its pharmacological effects resemble those of adrenaline with certain differences. The action of ephedrine is more prolonged than that of adrenaline because it is more stable than the latter and unlike adrenaline it is effective when administered by the mouth. The effect of ephedrine on the blood pressure is much less intense and much more prolonged than that of adrenaline and repeated doses of the former, given within a few hours, produce a diminishing effect whereas the effect of the same dose of adrenaline is invariably of the same intensity. The action of ephedrine is not reversed by ergotoxine and is abolished by cocaine. In mammals ephedrine raises the blood pressure, increases cardiac activity, dilates the pupil, dilates the bronchi, inhibits intestinal movements and raises the blood sugar level. The toxicity is low but disagreeable sideactions are common in its use as an antiallergic.

Excessive khat chewing can apparently result in insanity and also toxic effects (B6). The symptoms in the former were mild mania associated with schizophrenic symptoms. Both patients were Africans. Moderate khat intoxication usually produces a condition of excessive and effusive politeness. Recovery is rapid from the addiction if supplies are withheld. Toxic effects result in excitability and loss of articulation, inability to walk and periodic spasmodic and jerky movements of the limbs with eyes wide open and staring, pupils normal size and equal and reacting sluggishly to light accommodation (H206). Legs and arms are spastic and resist passive flexion and extension. Patient very sensitive to external impressions (H206). Sudden noises result in groaning and twitching of the limbs (H206). Marked hyperaesthesiae all over the body. Pin pricks produce pain and twitching of adjacent muscles (H206). Attempts to elicit abdominal reflexes result in violent generalized twitching of abdominal muscles and a touch on the forehead caused twitching of the whole face (H206). Opisthotonus has not been observed (H206). A patient, under observation and treatment for four days, was in coma throughout this period and then died (H206).

Addiction to khat is known (H206, P89, F2, B315) but its price and the difficulty in obtaining it probably act as good preventatives (P87). Addicts often become mentally and physically debilitated as early as 30 to 40 years of age and many become sexually impotent (P89, C56). Occasional use is said, however, to produce sexual stimulation but habituation the opposite (H274). It is also said that addiction to the chewing of khat is harmful owing to the gastric effects of the large amount of tannin consumed (B4). Two cases of insanity in the African have been attributed to the khat habit. The effects are a mild mania with some schizophrenic symptoms (C42). A striking facet is the excessive politeness displayed by the sufferer (C42). One case of aggravation of a pre-existent psychosis in a European is noted (C42). Acute homicidal mania may develop (P89) but it has also been reported that a man under the influence of khat does not become violent (E2).

The following important and significant observations (G304) made at Djibouti are quoted in extenso:


 * "In view of the situation which has been brought about by khat at Djibouti, the French Government had to consider whether it should continue to regard khat as simply a habit-forming substance. To answer that question, it referred to the definitions approved by the Expert Committee on Addiction-Producing Drugs in its seventh report.
 * It was found that khat does not fall clearly within the terms of either of the two definitions of drug addiction and drug habituation. In fact, in the light of the description of the situation prevailing in Djibouti, it can be said that khat falls within the definition of habituation given in the first three paragraphs:
 * (1) There is a desire (but not a compulsion) to continue taking the drug for the sense of improved well-being which it engenders.
 * (2) There is little or no tendency to increase the dose.
 * (3) There is some degree of psychic dependence on the effect of the drug, but absence of physical dependence and hence of an abstinence syndrome.


 * "On the other hand, although there may be some doubt with regard to the theoretical definition of the effects of khat, it is obviously necessary to take energetic steps to combat this social evil without delay.


 * In view of the urgency of the question, the French Government decided, even before the meeting of the Commission on Narcotic Drugs, to prohibit the use of this plant."

The leaf and twig yield 135.7 mg./ I00 gm. of ascorbic acid and the leaf alone 324.6 mg./100 gm.

Finally a quote (largely an extract from the former) taken from:

Food From The Veld

Edible wild plants of southern Africa botanically identified and described by

FRANCIS WILLIAM FOX and MARION EMMA NORWOOD YOUNG

In collaboration with DESMOND HALLOWES RENA SEGAL RUTH WUSTROW With botanical descriptions by GERRIT GERMISHUIZEN

DELTA BOOKS 1982

CELASTRACEAE

Catha edulis (Vahl) Forsk. ex Endl, (Methyscophyllum glaucum Eckl. & Zeyh.)

Catha edulis

Common names. English Abyssinian tea, African tea, Arabian tea, Arabic khat, Bushmen's tea, wild tea; Afrikaans — Abyssinia kat, Boesmans tee, Spelonke tee; Shona — mutsawhare, muzaramashawa, Venda — luthadzi, iwani; Xhosa — igqwaka; Zulu — umhlwazi.

Description

A shrub or small deciduous tree with a short straight stem and small sparse crown. Bark whitish, longitudinally ridged. Leaves simple, opposite, narrowly oval to lanceolate, dark green dull glossy on the upper surface, pale green below, the margins serrate. Inflorescence a lax several-flowered cyme. Flowers small, pale yellow. Fruit red, small, oblong, woody, a 3-chambered capsule. Seeds reddish, oblong, with a membranous wing.

Distribution

Occurs in mountain forests and forest verges from the Cape midlands through the eastern Cape Province, Transkei, Lesotho, Natal to Swaziland and the eastern and northern Transvaal. Also found in tropical East Africa.

Use

Watt & Breyer-Brandwijk (1962) say that in South Africa the leaf and twig have been used chiefly by Bushmen who make a stimulating beverage from the leaf as well as chewing the young shoot as a stimulant. There is a marked sustaining effect releasing tire subject from fatigue and hunger feelings. The leaf is said to have a slightly bitter yet pleasant flavour, with a strong sweet taste of liquorice and has been regarded as nourishing. Usually the young leaf and twig are chewed fresh, but in East Africa young leaves attached to young branchlets, 20cm long, are wrapped in grass to prevent withering. The bundles are reported to keep fresh for a week and have often been transported over long distances.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by JeanGeilland (talk • contribs) 13:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion
Note that although these sources go back as far as forty years or even more, the quotes sit well with several of the comments that appear on the talk pages concerning Catha. The limited and confusing incidence of abuse and damage, but apparent lack of dependence in most cases have long been known. Other points include the ephedrine-like pharmacological utility in treating congestion; the way in which anecdotal reports of effects resemble those of abuse of amphetamines; the clearly suggestive evidence that the alkaloids are not the only active ingredients; and the limited shelf-life of the fresh product. Some of the remarks I personally find confusing. The amounts the Watt et al mention are minute. Several leaves to a gram??? Perhaps there was some confusion transcribing hand written notes to the manuscript? I cannot say. Again, some of the references clearly are quoting lay opinions and even anecdotes (for example, the "excessive politeness" clearly is subjectively assessed, and the provenance and origins of the mania are unclear.) However, I am strongly of the opinion that those who mindlessly parrot the aphorism that "the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data' " drastically need to ramp up their command of the role of information theory in the accumulation and structuring of evidence in either practice or theory. Unregenerate I, either in scorning those who automatically accept and cite, or condemning those who smugly pride themselves on remaining oblivious of, unverifiable lay observations or interpretations. Such persons should be required to write contrite essays on the appropriate respect for that which may rationally affect one's assessment of the relative strength of rival hypotheses, and the treacherously simplistic views that remain once one has discarded everything that does not emerge from investigations limited to the scope of one's own preconceptions, and the laboratory work and statistical analyses based thereon.

And oh yes, speaking of anecdotal evidence, I am sure that I am not the only one to find google images of great value, or to treat them with deep suspicion. One that I treat with suspicion is the Catha edulis image on the Wiki page, no matter how solemnly I am assured of its correctness. A far more persuasive specimen is the one at www.fkog.uu.se. I also could go for the flowers at www.botany.hawaii.edu. Some others leave me breathless, not counting a couple of young ladies called Catha. Have a look at www.xplanta.com for the love of Mike! I actually went to the source and found that the actual site also had that error, and these were the guys selling the stuff! It shows a red passion flower! About half as far from Catha as you can get and still be a dicotyledon! It is pretty of course. Why not show it and label it "Not Catha, but nice"? I have a couple of line drawings from books, but don't yet know how to submit them.

PS. I am 105.37% with Caroline Greenway's remarks. I too have never heard of that place, nor anything that sounds like it. Also she is correct in her assessment of both the historical and mystical remarks she mentions.

JeanGeilland (talk) 13:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * pictures fo the actually khat plant can be found on the most reliable sorce of them all the DEA's website and what you people are discribing and what i've seen on this particuler site they look nothing like the real thing! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noone28 (talk • contribs) 06:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Qat (Khat - photo and Djibouti
As far as I can see the plannt despicted is not Catha edulis, a better photo is needed. It is quite correct that Djibouti should be included as an area consuming large amounts of Qat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.72.169.248 (talk • contribs) 10:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * the plant pictured is in fact Catha edulis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.167.177.60 (talk • contribs) 02:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe it is, but I doubt it, if you will forgive my butting in. See my comments at the end of my edit of Qat in South Africa.  There certainly are better pics on line.
 * would have to agree that the picture is pretty average and there should possibly be pictures of some of the many other varieties ?
 * JeanGeilland (talk) 14:16, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

What is the passage in the New Testament that may refer to the use of qat? I have not been able to find this in the secondary literature which this Wikipedia article cites. NANIBGAL2 (talk) 15:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Spelling
I also agree that the word Khat is not the right spelling it should be changed. I also deleted the part of the article that states that Muslims use Qat during fasting in Ramazan, as this is wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tnewsletters (talk • contribs) 05:46, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know. I could definitely believe that. Chat isn't consumed, I don't think, just chewed. I'm going to reinsert it, but with a tag saying it needs a citation and therefore may not be true. Also, the qualifier "a few" is a bit odd wording (it's not good prose, even if it's perfect grammar). Unless it's only been chewed for 2 or 3 centuries (which I doubt), it's also not very accurate.
 * ዮም  (Yom)  |  contribs  •  Talk  07:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

About qat during Ramadan: In Yemen, qat is definitely chewed more extensively during Ramadan than during the rest of the year. The point is: It is chewed at night (before sunrise), so it does not break the fasting. On whether it is halal to consume qat during Ramadan or in fact during any other time, this is up for debate: Most Zaidi scholars obviously do not consider it haram.

Catha is Latinized from Qat. The spelling Khat has no justification afaics, since kh usually transliterates ḫ, not q. The spelling Qat would maybe be preferable in this article. dab (&#5839;) 09:36, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

The Amharic transliteration has "chat," but it doesn't indicate that the "ch" is an ejective one. Also, should the Arabic and Ge'ez script be used for the other pronounciations? Yom 03:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Lem PD Actually Khat, Miraa, Qat, is a dangerous controlled substance. Khat was added to the schedule by the DEA as an emergency schedule. Yes I have chewed Khat on many occasions. But just to clarify, it is scheduled

In Canada, khat (there are numerous spellings in use, any or all of them acceptable) is illegal. It is a Controlled substance under Schedule III as #19. Cathinone ((–)–a–aminopropiophenone) and any salt thereof and Schedule IV as #19. Catha edulis Forsk., its preparations, derivatives, alkaloids and salts, including: (1) Cathine (d–threo–2–amino–1–hydroxy–1–phenylpropane).Flanman31 04:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

While there are numerous spellings, and all of them are acceptable, there is always a preferred spelling. That spelling is "Qat". (Webster's Unabriged Dictionary) As we are an encyclopedia, we should aim for accuracy.Mk5384 (talk) 17:48, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Spelling revisited
There needs to be a more definitive discussion on what spelling variant to use. It seems uncertain whether "qat" or "khat" is the most common and the previous discussion seems to have been very inconclusive. I seem to be able to find either recommended in dictionaries, for example.

And under no circumstances should any of the variants be removed altogether from the lead.

Peter Isotalo 17:44, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Khat scheduling
Khat isn't controlled under Schedule IV so whoever wrote that should actually take the time to read, I didn't see cathnione or Khat listed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.207.238.103 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * [Counter to this argument: check the DEA information at http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr072606a.html] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.141.105.2 (talk • contribs) 18:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC) [cr. 18:03, 1 July 2008]


 * Though it is true that Khat(qat)itself is not classified as a class I or class IV drug. It is in fact the the separate chemicals in the plant that have been classified and a simple chem. test.  (Which if arrested with an unknown plant they will test it.)  Will show mephedrone and cathinone which are classified in North America.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.190.231.142 (talk) 18:54, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Quantification
Anyone at all got any rough idea about the percentage of cathine and cathinone in khat? I know it's hard to quantify but a good guess would be useful for the pharmacology section.  Tu rk ey ph an t 18:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Khat vs Qat
Ctrl-F search on the page gives ~100 hits for 'qat', ~50 for 'khat'. We should probably pick one and use it exclusively, but should we use the page title or the apparently-more-popular term? 174.89.170.42 (talk) 03:59, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

It should be spelled with a q, to be consistent with how Arabic words are transliterated into English. All Arabic words that have the letter qaaf (ق) in them are transliterated with q (Iraq, Qur'an, al-Qaeda, Qatar, etc.) Kh is for transliteration of the letter khaa' (خ), as in Khartoum or Khaybar. Qaat in Arabic is with qaaf and therefore it is wrong to spell it with a kh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.152.21.205 (talk) 04:24, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Qat like ecstasy?!
The idea tha qat has an effect similar euphoric to ecstasy is highly dubious. Ecstasy has an overwhelming affect on the nervous system. Euphoria from ecstasy is extreme, not mild at all. Euphoria from qat is much more mild than from ecstasy. Get two people in two test rooms and put one on ecstasy and one on qat and watch the results. The ecstasy taker will be rolling on the floor. The qat taker will not. Any meta-analysis claiming some similarity between the euphoric feelings caused by these two drugs must have made some errors in data collection or something. It just makes no sense. I don't care if it was in Lancet or the New England Journal of Medicine. The people performing this analysis were clearly deep in left field. ask123 (talk) 19:12, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Not just dubious, outright false. Nobody rolls on the floor. Sit on the floor, sure. That's normal. Yes, it's original research, but I ate khat almost every day for 2 months in Somalia. The part about how you feel the next day is absolutely correct, but the effect while chewing it is similar to an amphetamine high, with some of the reported "cocaine euphoria". And yes, it's addictive. No question about that. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:41, 25 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree with above. I've done mmda a couple of times (that was enough!) & I've chewed qat in Yemen. There's no similarity at all.TheLongTone (talk) 13:53, 8 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Seriously, isn´t this the defintion of non-objective evidence. Ofcourse you can debate what this drug FEELS like to you but this makes little sense to anyone seeking information on anything else but what you guys think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrenochromie (talk • contribs) 10:39, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Khat and allergies
I have found that chewing khat helps with my allergies and my breathing in general. It seems to do a very good job at unblocking my nose. Does anyone know if there is a correlation between the two? VFRog 22:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The active ingredients in khat are chemically very similar to phenylpropanolamine (referred to in the main article as norephedrine.) Phenylpropanolamine is a decongestant that was removed from the market due to safety concerns. Phenylpropanolamine is chemically similar to ephedrine, a decongestant and bronchodialator that is still sold OTC as an asthma medicine, and is somewhat similar to pseudophedrine (Sudafed), an isomer of ephedrine sold as a decongestant. So, yes, khat would likely have decongestant effects, but it would be safer (both medically and legally) to use Sudafed instead, or maybe ephedrine (say, Primatene tablets or Bronkaid) if Sudafed doesn't work for you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.198.14 (talk • contribs) 00:12, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Also see the text in Khat in SOuth Africa for some discussion of the uses and active ingredients of the plant JeanGeilland (talk) 14:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

seems to me noone really knows what this really is maybe go to the source like i don't know the DEA! i for one and many other people i've asked have never even heard of it apparently the few folks in here talking about it are the only ones who have. i live in the USA and we don't get to many "khat" busts here. so good luck on actually finding information on this subject. this is why web sites like wikipedia are so in accurrate to manny people come in here and edit, edit, edit then noone knows! these web sites are not reliable and not one person could use this as a resource in a reasearch paper. too unreliable! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noone28 (talk • contribs) 06:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Ofcourse you can´t use wikipedia as a reference in a research paper. If you don´t appreciate the fact that articles get edited all the time then you have missed the point of the Wiki-concept. The whole idea is that the information is readily editable by anyone which keeps it up to date. This for you as a reader in turn requires much more scrutiny of the actual references and sources that are given in the article. Wikipedia isn´t an old school encyclopedia, i suggest you buy one of those instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrenochromie (talk • contribs) 10:48, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

UK legal status
This page may assist: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23163017 --81.23.54.142 (talk) 11:08, 3 July 2013 (UTC)



Straw poll: Preferred spelling style
A check-in to determine preferences. Anybody have any strong feelings for Aussie, British, American, Canadian, etc? Totally informal here. meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 02:32, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The American or British spelling is fine. Middayexpress (talk) 15:14, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Is khat used by any communities in America? If not I would definitely go for the British spelling but I am British so perhaps biased♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 16:34, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Never really even heard of it before now, so I'd say not. America goes straight for cannabis. meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 15:22, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

British it is then. meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 00:14, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Botany
Usually khat is depicted as a shrub but as the article tells, in some climates it can also be a tree. The current source for this information is not the best possible and a picture of khat-tree would also be nice. Vice's recent report on the subject shows these trees and the farmer argues it has a sweeter taste.--Custoo (talk) 23:38, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You're free to either upload an image or request it (&thinsp; can be placed at the top of talk pages&thinsp;). Much better visibility for your request.
 * I don't think a youtube video is a reliable source, unfortunately. You said "report"; a link to a journal article or other form of publication would be perfect. meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 01:26, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Needs cleanup
Several of the references and links are broken or outdated. Cleanup required. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrenochromie (talk • contribs) 10:40, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Did what I could and marked it for the attention of the WikiProject external links team. meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 01:28, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Loss of Appetite Reference Needed
The former loss of appetite referenced webpage has been taken down so another citation is needed. --Kwake20 (talk) 21:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks for the heads up. Flagged the statement. meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 05:09, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Proper usage of Khat / Absorption route (WILL I EVER GET AN ANSWER To THIS??)
Should the Khat juice that forms when chewing the leaves be left and swished in your mouth for mucous membrane absorption (like LSD) or should it be swallowed for gastrointestinal absorption (like alcohol/ecstasy)?

"When the khat leaves are chewed, cathine and cathinone are released and absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth and the lining of the stomach"- Based on that information and http://leda.lycaeum.org, you're supposed to have it like chewing tobacco but there are a variety of other ways you can do it. Ageofe (talk) 19:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * So with chewing tobacco, I let the juice sift around my mouth for around 5 minutes and then swallow it? Or is it any different?
 * Thanks--79.178.149.190 (talk) 16:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 11:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Sanaa" :
 * Yemen's khat habit soaks up water by Alex Kirby. Written 2007-4-7. Accessed 2007-4-8.
 * a

Simplification is a good thing
Saying things in layman's terms should be provided in addition to or instead of the more technical terms. In the article under "Health risks and benefits" it says: "Cathinone has been found to produce coronary vasoconstriction due to the norephedrine metabolite activity upon ingestion. Therefore, Khat chewers have been found to have an increase incidence of myocardial infarction, possibly arising from vasospasms." I didn't understand half of that and had to do some quick research, only to realize this entire thing could have been simplified down to saying "Increased risk of heart attack" Imagine this if you will: someone with the intention of using khat upon themselves decides to come to this article to research it first, this person is at high risk of heart attack but also mildly stupid and/or lazy and cannot understand the above statement, so they dismiss it and go on to use khat, then die of a heart attack, it's a plausible scenario is it not? regardless, I'll leave the editing to someone who knows anything about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeviKodkod (talk • contribs) 09:31, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * ✅ I'll take that. meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 04:47, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ I finished copyediting it. Enabling feedback for a while—I'm hoping anybody confused will say so. meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 05:56, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

minor edit
Changed caption from "Ugly man enjoying his khat in Sana'a, Yemen, January 2009" to "Man enjoying his khat in Sana'a, Yemen, January 2009". Beauty is subjective and in any case the caption seemed inappropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.192.132.93 (talk) 19:48, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

UNODC agents
http://news.yahoo.com/two-foreign-u-n-workers-killed-somalia-215538731--finance.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.108.8 (talk) 01:34, 8 April 2014 (UTC) That has nothing to do with khat, nor is it mentioned in the link. Wrong page. Middayexpress (talk) 12:59, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

clarification
Hello everybody, I've come across the article and noticed that there is something contradictory in the "Cultivation and uses" section. Indeed, it is explained that "Its fresh leaves and tops are chewed or, less frequently, dried and consumed as tea, to achieve a state of euphoria and stimulation; it also has anorectic side effects". So, both fresh and dried leaves elicit similar effects. But immediately after this sentence it is said that "Khat use has traditionally been confined to the regions where it is grown, because only the fresh leaves have the desired stimulating effects". Thus, it seems that the dried leaves have no stimulating effects. I am not an expert of the matter, I just want to point out that at the logical level the two statements seem to collide, and that some rewriting might be necessary. Thank you for considering it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Freakipedius (talk • contribs) 00:15, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1987-01-01_2_page006.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:15, 8 July 2015 (UTC) Cordless Larry (talk) 11:15, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

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"Among the other chemical and physical properties of khat is that it also acts as a natural refrigerant for the stomach and the liver, and relieves biliousness.[21]"
I'm a doctor with a reasonable science background and have no idea what a "natural refrigerant of the stomach and liver" is. "Relieves biliousness" is also very vague - perhaps "relieves bilary colic"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.62.149.74 (talk) 17:24, 25 January 2017 (UTC)


 * That statement appears to derive from, and be cited to, an 11th century work by Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, hence the ...special terminology. While interesting from a historical perspective, and treated as such in section "History", it probably shouldn't be featured among the medical claims. I have removed the statement. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 18:48, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

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Regulation/Denmark: In total 2 out of 3 state that khat is a problem for social integration into Danish society, while 1 of 3 users state this.
I don't get this sentence (above). I might be completely wrong as English is not my native tongue. Thanks! Lodidol (talk) 16:33, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, that doesn't make sense. I presume it means that one in three people (surveyed) disagreed that it is a problem. However, the source is in Danish, so we really need a Danish speaker check it. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:50, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I've identified the edit with which the material was added., could you help us out here? Cordless Larry (talk) 20:33, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It means that 2 out of 3 respondents said usage was a problem for integration, while of the users 1 out of 3 said the same. The relevant quote is on page 6: Samme mønster går igen, når der svares på, om khat udgør et problem for somalieres integration i Danmark. Samlet set mener to ud af tre, at khat er et problem for integrationen - blandt brugerne er det omkring en ud af tre, der mener det er tilfældet. Page 6 is not in the referred pages, so it was added. A Thousand Words (talk) 20:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, I failed to appreciate the distinction between respondents and users. I will try to improve the wording to make this clearer. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:56, 13 September 2019 (UTC)