Talk:Khayelitsha

Comment
The article needs to be put into better chronological perspective.. Gregorydavid 22:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The first residents
When did the first families start settling in Khayelitsha? Gregorydavid 07:40, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

The effect of the ANC in Khayelitsha
A huge amount have people will dispute the fact that the ANC has improved the livelihood of Khayelitsha residents. Sure, some homes has been build and there have been the creation of a Khayelitsha CBD. However, many people including Khayelitsha residents will say that nothing substantial has actually happened since the end of Apartheid. This article need to be changed to make it more neutral or at least give alternative sides.

Hmmm - allow me to be frank. As an Aussie who has spent three recent years over and back to Cape Town I have developed an almost cynical sensitivity to white folk wanting to downplay the pain and damage of South Africa's history, to suggest that the ANC are poor, doing little and that black folk were better off before. So I read these comments and this dispute in these terms. The folk I have met who live in Khayelitsha seem to suggest very different views than these. I guess that most people may be more interested to hear what Khayelitsha residents have to say about the changes. I know some with some kinda internet access and shall invite their contribution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.155.55 (talk) 05:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC) wn Munic

As Americans who have worked in the Khayelitsha neighborhood of Harare for the past 15 months, and while we respect the view of our Australian friend who has become a bit sensitive to the suggests of the "white folk," we have to mention that the majority of improvements in the daily lives of the residents have been performed by the members of the communities themselves, through NGO partnerships and community based organisations, not through the ANC led national government or the Democratic Alliance led Cape Town municipality. Many initiatives have been supported or partially funded by local government entities, and while they are funded in part by government initiatives, the work is primarily performed and sustained by community members. Local soup kitchens for example, such as Mama Mimi's soup kitchen in 35 section, or the Sinethemba Community Organisation in 33 section, have received some government support but are largely sustained and driven by unpaid volunteers and community member donations. What should be done here is to highlight and honour the work and sacrifice of the community "Mamas" who are largely responsible for the maintenance of community services despite the inconsistencies of government support. The issue is not whether service delivery of the ANC led government is worse or better than the Apartheid government--having a free democracy is a right, but does not mean you will have food for your family--the issue is why there is so little commitment by the government towards: rubbish removal, street maintenance, affordable housing, access to clean water, street cleaning, storm drain clearing, food stipends, and crime prevention. -Lindsay and Ryan Sarver, L&R Social Engagements, Harare, Khayelitsha
 * I agree, neither the ANC nor the DA (nor COPE or ID for that matter) do anything for the people of Khayelitsha. Most of it is done by the residents themselves.  The only place you really see the effect of the ANC is when they build shopping malls and sell the land to developers for a few rand or when they upgrade the wealthier parts of Khayelitsha like Ilitha Park.Frombelow (talk) 06:41, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

The size of Khayelitsha
Who in South Africa can rank the size of townships? I doubt very much that Sharpeville is second on the list. Soweto is a collection of townships. What about diepsloot? Johannesburg has 290 000 shanties. Gregorydavid 07:40, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, good point. Although is one continuous area of urban development. Isn't it one municipality? Which would make the various townships of Soweto in effect suburbs of the larger urban area of Soweto. Joziboy 8 May 2006, 11:09 (UTC)


 * Khayelitsha is one very large demarcated area where Soweto is a collection of mature townships. One needs to compare Khayelitsha with townships of similar character like Diepsloot. Gregorydavid 15:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[Molo] I do not agree to comparing dieploot with Khayelitsha. In the general perspective SOWETO is one township, just as Khayelitsha is.

It is certainly difficult to estimate the population size. It depends also on the 'definition' of Khayelitsha. However, due to census 2001 Khayelitsha has as a subburb 329 000 inhabitants (see : http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/stats/2001census/Documents/Khayelitsha.htm) (User: Peter B.)
 * The 2001 census is not only inaccurate but Khayelitsha has grown drastically in size. I know it is inaccurate because people would go around and look at someones shack and estimate how many people lived there rather than asking them.  This would mean that the census person would estimate 4 persons living in a shack when there are in fact 12 or 14.  I know this to be true because some community organisations i know of did their own estimates and found their settlement to have a completely different population than government estimates.  I would say based on what I know of Khayelitsha that there is in fact about 300,000-500,000 shackdwellers alone in the area.  That would make Khayelitsha have probably about 1 million residents.  But thats really just a guess based on empirical evidence.Frombelow (talk) 06:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

NPOV
I marked this NPOV but it should be easily rectified. Mentioning things like "Smart Technology from Canada have donated an interactive whiteboard." seems out of proportion in an informal settlement of half a million souls. – Kaihsu 12:12, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The content you refer to looks more like enthusiastic news from somebody who has the connectivity to contribute to Wikipedia. The article needs to be structured better and some content could be moved to the discussion page.Gregorydavid 19:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This also seems rather emotional: "Apartheid is over, but its legacy - and the shacks, remain." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.245.163.13 (talk) 10:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The white board story seems wrong. Apparently schools in the area are being equipped with these smart boards. I am unsure whether it's been sponsored by one company or whether each company only contributes one interactive white board. 41.245.129.34 (talk) 23:52, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that there are a number of, in the broader context, relatively insignificant initiatives which are mentioned in this article, which could lead to a misrepresentation of the real state of affairs. Cnrwilste004 (talk) 20:30, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Major edits
Hi,

I would very much like to add a lot of information to this page. I think that it could be expanded on greatly. Khayelitsha has a population greater than some European capital cities, and there is a wealth of information out there.

Unfortunately, I don't have much time to do this. I only spotted the page while doing some research for work (I live in Cape Town) and noticed it was lacking. Therefore, I will update it as I find time!

Datura Greenleaf 14:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

it would be nice to have someone update and make this page on Khayelitsha useful for reseach. I do not know enough about it but it is a place dear to me and I am doing a paper on childlren in poverty (I visited there in 1997) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawnseattle (talk • contribs) 00:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

actual population
I've been told by three different locals that the population is approx 1.5 million. There numerous references to that number online. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.203.1.42 (talk) 12:43, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The Khayelitsha Population Register Update, which is where ~800k figure in the article comes from, is quite a reliable source. Where does the 1.5 million figure come from? Given that the whole City of Cape Town has a population of 3.5 million (as of 2007) it seems unlikely that 43% of that population is in Khayelitsha, when you consider the size of Gugulethu, Mitchell's Plain, Blue Downs, etc. - htonl (talk) 05:41, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a bit frustrating - the Register Update means very little when a good part of the township is 'informal' (ie: shanty). I've been there just yesterday with Nomvuyos (social tourism company). The guide (who was an expert on the subject matter as she is onsite most days and is deeply involved with several community leaders) was quoting 1.5M minimum, and that the township could have passed the 2M mark recently. Could we at least add to the page that while the register says 500K, many quote 1.5M? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.203.1.97 (talk) 08:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * sorry, one last thing - http://westcapenews.com/?p=1456 is another reference and you can find dozen more here: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Khayelitsha+1.5&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
 * What gives you the idea that the KPRU didn't count people in informal housing? On page 1 of the linked report, it says, "In terms of housing, one observes an overwhelming presence of informal housing, mainly on a separate stand and informal with reference to a shack in backyard for wards 88 to 93," and on page 7, "A strong contrast emerged between formal and informal housing for all wards, more than 50% of housing constituted is informal, i.e. informal dwelling on a separate stand and informal dwelling or shack in backyard."
 * It seems that "everyone knows" that there are 1.5 million people in Khayelitsha, but no-one seems to know where that number comes from. I ask again: the Community Survey estimated the population of the metro area as being 3.5 million; considering the size of Gugulethu, Mitchell's Plain, Blue Downs and so on, do you think Khayelitsha could contain almost half of the metro population? - htonl (talk) 14:22, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The report itself quotes that the used "a project team (...) who had no survey and fieldwork research experience" and "fieldworkers only worked till 6pm and 5pm daily and did not conduct any interviews over weekends" and "Only 67% of the dwelling units in Khayelitsha were enumerated". In a nutshell the workers (quite understandably) were not able to do their job due the risk of violence. They then used GIS to compensate for this. If you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibera you'll see the page makes an effort to enumerate all estimates - not just the 'official' ones.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.7.90.43 (talk) 17:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Can you suggest any sources that actually discuss or give evidence for the 1.5 million claim, more than just mentioning it in passing? References that dispute the KPRU (or Census 2001) statistics would be particularly nice, but anything that explains the basis for the number could be suitable for inclusion in the article. - htonl (talk) 19:58, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Htonl, there are 1.2 million black people in the whole of the City of Cape Town (2007). The stats show that 90% of Khaya is black. If Khaya has 1.5 million people, and assuming all of cape town's black people live in Khaya, then it only comes to 80%? This doesn't include Gugu, which is actually suprisingly big, and has a black majority. 1.5 million seems way too huge. Bezuidenhout (talk) 21:41, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Figures for the total population of Cape Town may well be incorrect (underestimated), precisely because the population of Khayelitsha is substantially larger than official figures would suggest (the same probably applies to other densely populated, impoverished suburbs, as well). This would invalidate calculations such as the one above. There are suggestions that some people considered it advantageous not to be officially recorded. Cnrwilste004 (talk) 20:16, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * (outdent) the infobox says ~329K, Demographics says 407k. We need a fresher figure. Wizzy&hellip; &#9742; 12:53, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * In a couple of weeks we should have figures from the 2011 census - stats for main places and subplaces should be coming out in March. - htonl (talk) 13:00, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The census population figure seems to be suspiciously low, compared, for example, to the above mentioned KPRU and the voter registration figures for some areas. The 2011 census data, in general, were the subject of vigorous debate, with some prominent UCT demographers publicly questioning the results. The number of households quoted (118 000) in this article would also correspond to a residents per household ratio of only about 3.3, which appears rather low for Khayelitsha (I should be able to obtain statistics from research that will hopefully be published soon to back up these claims). Cnrwilste004 (talk) 20:16, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Someone should at least standardise to population figures. The article has very different numbers in the summary box on the right, in the body of the article, and in the tables in the body.  Why not reflect the census numbers in all three places -  probably the most accurate  - and note that there is some debate and disagreement.... 41.56.43.50 (talk) 15:55, 31 May 2015 (UTC) Charley Lewis

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Notable people
The following names with descriptions were removed from this section as they don't have pages in this WP project: The editor who added these names will be notified. -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:46, 26 March 2018 (UTC)'
 * Wandisile Nqeketho (social entrepreneur)
 * Siyabulela Daweti (tourist guide & entrepreneur)

"Along the N2"???
The section Demographics begins with this sentence:

"Khayelitsha has a population of 391,749 (as of 2011) and runs for a number of kilometres along the N2."

Does whoever wrote this really not recognize that virtually nobody outside of the area knows what "the N2" means? Virtually nobody even knows that this refers to a road!

Do Wikipedia writers really think that providing links to words their readers will not understand is a substitute for adequate writing?

It most certainly is not. If you're going to write for Wikipedia, please explain unfamiliar terms to readers.50.205.142.50 (talk) 19:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I removed it because it was in the first sentence of the Demographics section while having nothing to do with the place's demographics. But there's nothing unusual about indicating a major road a place may be along just as one might mention rivers, coasts, mountains, and so forth, whether or not a given reader might have heard of them before. Lots of articles discuss their topics in terms of other things that a given reader might also be unfamiliar with, but which are distinct topics that don't merit their own explanation within the article that mentions them. For those readers, that's the point of wikilinks. Largoplazo (talk) 19:47, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

In dire need of an update
This subject is in dire need of an update. I expect the footprint of Khayelitsha has virtually doubled if not more, the number of people residing in the township has grown significantly and also the exchange rate of the Rand against the dollar has changed significantly compared to the rate used in the article. Fred6255 (talk) 09:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Regrettably also the statistics South Africa page (https://www.statssa.gov.za/?page_id=4286&id=328) still uses the data of 2011.
 * One of the ngo's working in the township estimates that the population size is about 2,000,000.
 * This webpage may have more up to date information alhough they also refer to wi9kipedia as the source of their data, they do provide more realistic numbers. Possibly they only used wikipedia as a source for historic data.
 * https://www.sikhulasonke.org.za/about-khayelitsha.html Fred6255 (talk) 10:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The following coordinate fixes are needed for

—197.229.1.153 (talk) 07:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You haven't said what you think is wrong with the coordinates in the article, and they appear to be correct. If you still think that there is an error, you'll need to supply a clear explanation of what it is. Deor (talk) 14:36, 7 May 2024 (UTC)