Talk:Killing Floor (video game)

the other killing floor game
this video game is the official version of the original Killing Floor UT2k4 mod. Shouldn't they be merged? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.12.149.149 (talk) 06:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

They should certainly mention eachother, but the mod and the game are 2 seperate beasts. I'd say they each deserve their own page. TopGunSF 03:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. While it's essentially the "same" game, the engine has been quite heavily modified, to the point where it's hard for the average player to even recognize it as Unreal 2.5. CaptainColon (talk) 23:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to add the Killing Floor allows the player to eat their own crap and dress in ladies' underwear. Unreal doesn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.229.249.59 (talk) 05:56, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Rename Wiki Article Title?
Currently, the title "Killing Floor (Video Game)" is taken by the original UT2K4 mod. Since this is the official version, I propose that the mod's wiki page should be renamed to "Killing Floor (Unreal Tournament 2004 Mod)", or just "Killing Floor (Mod)", and give the "(Video Game)" page to the official version. Anunnakki (talk) 00:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Renamed game type
It is a computer game, not a video game. Have to play it over steam only.

Majinsnake (talk) 01:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)majinsnake


 * Majinsnake, first of all, a computer game is a video game. Second of all, you are breaking links. Notice how they all turned red? -Anunnakki (talk) 04:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Video games are played on a video game console. Computer games are played on a computer. Alot of people fail to realize that. There is a difference. Then why do people still classify them together? Because those same people thought why not just put them together since their is so much hassle. Any game played on whatever system/console will always be referred as the system it is played on. Computer/Computer game, Video or video console/Video game. If a computer game is a computer game, why not call it a Computer video game. I know you are seeing my reason even if not considered right on wiki. Sorry about the links, been a while since i update. Majinsnake (talk) 06:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)majinsnake


 * No there's not. I don't know why you think there is a difference. A computer game is a video game specifically played on the home computer platform. Seriously, just look it up if you don't believe me. —Anunnakki (talk) 08:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Comparisons between Left 4 Dead and Killing Floor
Does this really belong in the article? All it has for examples are two types of infected that are only descriptively similiar to each other. The developers of the game themselves say the two should not be compared, so thereby I find it unneeded. 98.218.81.113 (talk) 02:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that's the very reason it should be there. If people look up this game on Wikipedia because they want to consider buying it, but don't just want an "L4D rip-off" (which is inaccurate, but most people will not know that), they should see the explanation that they are two different games. Anunnakki (talk) 04:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia isn't a catalog magazine, it's a free source encyclopedia. The description and summary of the game itself should suffice in informing the reader that it is a standalone game. And it couldn't be confused as a Left 4 Dead rip-off as it was an original mod for the Unreal Engine right around the time production had originally started for Left 4 Dead. 98.218.81.113 (talk) 02:21, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Even though it's completely untrue, it definitely could be and will be confused as a Left 4 Dead rip-off, since the original Killing Floor was just a mod that wasn't easily accessible and widely advertised as Left 4 Dead. Although, you do make a good point, so I am unopposed to the section's removal. —Anunnakki (talk) 05:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Here is what was removed:
 * ===Comparisons to Left 4 Dead===

Even though Killing Floor was released as a total conversion mod for Unreal Tournament 2004 three years before Valve Corporation's Left 4 Dead, another survival horror first-person shooter, the retail version of the game, being released relatively close to Left 4 Dead, has drawn some inevitable comparisons. The Killing Floor developers have stated that the two games are very different.

Removed: 07:46, 14 June 2009 by 98.218.81.113.

Ikip (talk) 21:52, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Edit Wars
Guys, come on, keep up the edit wars! This article was starting to get really boring. —Anunnakki (talk) 00:42, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Two reverts from two users doesn't really constitute an edit war (don't think so anyway!). I'd discuss more controversial changes on the talk page, but removing the perks was per wikipedia not being a game guide, the enemies section too, though it might be more gamecruft. Both changes were following policy, and the policies were noted in my edit summary, so I didn't think it necessary to bring it up on the talk. Thanks! Fin©™ 18:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Perk summaries
why was this entire convenient, informative and concise section on perks removed? 82.10.96.138 (talk) 18:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See the edit summaries (WP:NOTGUIDE and WP:GAMECRUFT) and what I've noted above. Thanks! Fin©™ 18:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Here is the Perks information that was removed from the main page:

Ikip (talk) 21:56, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I added a little block of text giving a vague summary(sorry, was out of time, please edit it to improve), and I think that the perks should be explained in depth in the article.Timur Amir (talk)Timur Amir —Preceding undated comment added 16:59, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
 * "In depth"? Not really something that should be detailed in a Wikipedia article.  Per WP:GAMEGUIDE, only brief descriptions should be used.  DP 76764  (Talk) 17:08, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Money Train
There should be a mention of the ultimate objective of the game, the killing of the specimens being only a means to acquire the finances to sustain an end game money train. Kernel Corn (talk) 23:14, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * you think so huh
 * Anunnakki (talk) 23:33, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

The actual objective is to get through all of the waves of 'Specimens' and defeat the 'Patriarch' (The boss), the money is to buy the weapons and the equipment to complete the objective.Yousou (talk) 20:56, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

SDK
I added a small SDK section of the article.Ithae (talk) 16:28, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

DLC
Many other articles one Wikipedia cover large content releases in much the same way as the article had been written. Examples of this are recent iterations of Call of Duty, with pages covering "map packs" and Fallout New Vegas, with the page covering all downloadable content releases. That said, have you even read WP:Gameguide? Because if you had, you'd have seen this has nothing - at all - to do with covering content releases for games. For this reason, i'm reverting it back to how it was. -Evaristé93 19:21, 18 May 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evaristé93 (talk • contribs)
 * "Video game guides. An article about a computer game or video game should summarize the main actions the player does to win the game. But avoid lists of gameplay weapons, items, or concepts. Specific point values, achievements and trophies, time-limits, levels, character moves, character weight classes, and so on are also considered inappropriate. A concise summary is appropriate if it is essential to understanding the game or its significance in the industry. See WP:VGSCOPE." Also, just because other articles do something does not automatically make it okay to do in this article. See WP:OTHERSTUFF. –Cosmopolitan (talk) 05:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The paragraph you quoted says nothing about DLCs, as they are not gameplay weapons, items, concepts, etc. Unlike what's generally considered gamecruft, DLCs are extensively covered in press releases and news articles by reliable sources.  Some mention of the DLCs is warranted, but since Killing Floor's are relatively small, we don't need a subsection for each one. — LOL T/C 17:24, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding me? What's in these DLCs? New weapons, maps, and costumes. How does this not fall under that category? Just because the specific term "DLC" is not used? And besides, noteworthy DLC generally adds substantial content to the game's main story line, or otherwise significantly modify the gameplay. Obviously, DLC for a game like Fallout 3 is noteworthy, as it significantly supplement's the game's story line. One of Mass Effect's DLC added a multiplayer component to a game that was otherwise single-player. A few new weapons, maps, and costumes do not change the game substantially enough to be noteworthy. –Cosmopolitan (talk) 06:06, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding me? A DLC is not a weapon, nor a map, nor a costume; it's an add-on officially released by the developers and covered by reliable publications.  What's featured in it doesn't matter because mentioning a DLC doesn't entail writing a detailed list of its contents.  Each of Left 4 Dead 2's DLCs so far added just three new maps, but the article would definitely be incomplete if it lacked any mention of those highly publicized releases.  Furthermore, if we were to determine the inclusion of a DLC based on our perception of what's "significant", then there would have to be a great discussion over where to draw the line between "significant" and "insignificant", especially with the abundance of DLCs nowadays. — LOL T/C 20:52, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, Jesus Christ, look, I'm not interested in arguing semantics, especially over a general term that encompasses such a ridiculously wide array of content. I took it out precisely because Evaristé93 wrote a detailed list of their contents. And none of them are very significant additions to the game. Discussion over what's significant is part of the article writing process; you have to do that in every article on Wikipedia. If you really think the DLC packs released so far deserve a mention, then it shouldn't be anything more than a sentence or two, and in any case, it certainly doesn't deserve its own level 1 heading. And also, it's not like the significance of a DLC is very ambiguous. The Left 4 Dead 2 DLC you're talking about also happened to kill one of the main characters from the first game. And even so, just the mere fact that the DLC was so highly publicized is reason enough for its inclusion in the article. These aren't difficult concepts. –Cosmopolitan (talk) 03:24, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, Jesus Christ, look, you can't stretch the term "video game guide" to encompass something that does not belong in any of the 11 categories listed in WP:VGSCOPE. Discussion over whether or not a DLC is "significant" when there isn't even a guideline on what makes a DLC significant is like running WP:AFD before establishing notability guidelines—so again, there would have to be a great discussion over where to draw the line between "significant" and "insignificant" if you're going to play that card.  I already stated above that the DLCs didn't each deserve their own subsection, and mainspace articles never use level 1 headings anyway (with the exception of the article title).  The significance of a DLC is clearly ambiguous if you're going to call Left 4 Dead 2's significant based on the removal of one character from another game, and then call Killing Floor's insignificant when 20+ new characters have been added since the game's release.  These aren't difficult concepts. — LOL T/C 00:54, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The term "DLC" cannot be fit into any of those categories, since it can be additional story campaigns, extra characters, extra character skins, new weapons, new maps, bug fixes, entirely new game modes or other additions that radically alter the game, and many other things. The list in WP:VGSCOPE is not a lawful edict that is to be followed to the letter—it is just a guide, and this is evident in its language. Since DownLoadable Content has such a wide domain, it is necessary to consider the content of each DLC to determine its noteworthiness. Just because a guideline does not exist that specifically covers this term does not mean every video game article is a free-for-all as far as DLC coverage goes. In the absence of more specific guidance, discussion is necessary on a case-by-case basis. Use your head here. And my mistake, I meant it doesn't deserve a level 2 heading. Also, Left 4 Dead 2's characters are actually developed characters with story lines and personality. The death of a character in Left 4 Dead 2 is as significant as the death of a character in a movie. The characters in Killing Floor are purely aesthetic, and so are the additional characters. If you're telling me that it's still not clear to you why the death of a character from Left 4 Dead 2 is more significant than the addition of a character in Killing Floor, then honestly, I don't know how you muster the brain cells necessary to type the words on this page and breathe at the same time. –Cosmopolitan (talk) 05:19, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Showing that the paragraph you quoted doesn't apply to DLCs does not mean I believe all DLCs belong. The fact that WP:VGSCOPE is only a guide is yet another reason you can't use it to further your position.  In the absence of guidance on DLCs, find a larger forum to discuss the significance of DLCs.  Many of the arguments regarding one game's DLCs can be applied to so many others, so adopting the case-by-case approach and having a myriad of similar, independent discussions over a large number of articles will waste time while producing inconsistencies and double standards within Wikipedia.  Use your head here.


 * Besides appearance, the characters of Left 4 Dead 2 are only distinguished by their voice actors, random conversations, and backgrounds (Killing Floor has profiles for each character too, by the way). Equating the deaths of L4D characters to those of movie characters makes me wonder if you've even played Left 4 Dead because anybody can go through the vanilla game, start to finish, with Bill kicked from the server at the very first saferoom like nothing happened.  How many films are the same without their protagonist?  The tie-in with the comic is nice and all, but I don't agree that it draws the line between the removal of Killing Floor's DLCs and inclusion of L4D's.  Now that you're making jokes about the brain cells I can muster (ironically), I don't think I'll be taking our discussion seriously anymore.  Evaristé will most likely support the additions I will be making to the article in the future, so if you have any problems with it, then I suggest bringing it to a larger forum as I mentioned before. — LOL T/C 05:02, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, that was already a week and a half ago that i made that edit. "[...]I took it out precisely because Evaristé93 wrote a detailed list of their contents." And what exactly should i have written about? Granted, it was monotonous the way i'd written it, simply listing the contents of each pack, but i'd left an expansion tag on it because i'd hoped to return and expand upon it and have other users do the same. The choice of header for each DLC pack was used based on what i'd seen in other articles, though it looks like i shouldn't have used a separate header for each. "And none of them are very significant additions to the game." What? How are they not significant additions? Each and every one of them has made a very significant change to the game. I feel that each pack deserves its contents listed and its release date considering how much the content packs have affected the game; giving them their own header was clearly a little over the top. (Also, any ideas as to why my name isn't being hyperlinked when i do the usual dash with four tildes? It just comes up as a normal-text timestamp, and then gets autocorrected by a bot)-Evaristé93 15:28, 29 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evaristé93 (talk • contribs)

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