Talk:Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah

Wording of the third paragraph
Some of the wording in the third paragraph is a bit off. "Over the months and years that followed, commentators questioned the accuracy of France 2's report." Doesn't this kind of sound like a trend? Like a lot of people didn't question it at first but then started questioning it, and that opinions decidedly changed after this? Especially as the first sentence of the lead's longest paragraph, this sets the tone. "French journalists who saw the raw footage confirmed that France 2 had cut a final few seconds in which Muhammad appeared to lift his hand from his face; they acknowledged that he had died, but said the footage alone did not show it. France 2's news editor said in 2005 that no one could be sure who fired the shots." I don't understand how this could be taken from the source provided. That article is about how frustrated people from Channel 2 were that every time they address a rumor or accusation and disprove it, another one pops up. The full quote is this: "Every time we address one question, then another question surfaces. It's very difficult to fight a rumor. The point is that four years later, no one can say for certain who killed him, Palestinians or Israelis." In context, this specific part of the quote is more ambiguous than it would be on its own and should probably not be attributed to them in a way that makes it sound official or "Channel 2's view". In any case, while it is still not agreed upon what killed him, the "staged" argument is pretty groundless. In light of the circumstances it should really be handled more carefully than it is now. It reeks of those reports about people saying Sandy Hook was "staged" and the kids are still alive. Since there's no way to disprove such rumours, don't expect these theories to ever be refuted. Media reported on it as they do with many fringe theories without necessarily endorsing them, but that doesn't mean it should be featured in the lead along with the main view. By the way: "Postage stamps in the Middle East carried the images; one of the images was visible in the background when Daniel Pearl, a Jewish-American journalist, was beheaded by al-Qaeda in 2002." Unless it's just me who can't find any prominent media attention for this... notability? Prinsgezinde (talk) 00:39, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 2 October 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (non-admin closure)  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 12:27, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Muhammad al-Durrah incident → Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah – Since the boy was killed, this is the proper title. Im The IP (talk) 02:35, 2 October 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 11:55, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Neutral on moving the article's main title header to Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah, but would support move to Shooting of Muhammad al-Durrah. This article appears under Category:Filmed killings by law enforcement, where the majority of entries use the form "Shooting of..." Even if there is no consensus that Muhammad al-Durrah was killed by shots fired by members of law enforcement, there is agreement that his death was caused by gunfire. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:33, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with that. Other voters: feel free to indicate whether you prefer killing of or shooting of. Im The IP  (talk) 11:36, 2 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Support move to Shooting of Muhammad al-Durrah, a more typical formulation that has less of an implication of intent. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Support this request, YES, the boy was killed by the Israeli Occupation Forces.--Imad_J (talk) 18:41, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. The event is most commonly known as "Muhammad al-Durrah incident" and the article should stay at that title. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  01:37, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Support - I would prefer this page just be titled "Muhammad al-Durrah", but the proposed "Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah" is better than the current "Muhammad al-Durrah incident". Looking at Google books, ngrams, scholar, news, and web, I cannot find evidence that "Muhammad al-Durrah incident" is the common name, or even a common name, for this. I can find almost no examples in RSes, and those that I can find seem to be the product of WP:CITOGENESIS originating in this article. "Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah" seems equally as prevalent, and I think it's a better choice than "incident", based on other "Killing of..." article titles for articles about homicides. "Incident" obscures what it is, and is euphemistic. However, I'm persuadable if there is evidence of common name. I notified WP:Palestine and WP:Israel of this RM. I oppose "Shooting of" for reasons detailed at the concurrent discussion at WT:AT (from whence I came). Lev!vich 05:01, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Support – No evidence the current title is the clear COMMONNAME. Looking through GBooks, it appears both "Death of ..." and "Killing of ..." are more prevalent. I can't tell which of the two is more common. As an apparent homicide with video footage to confirm, this is should be titled as Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah. --- C &amp; C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"may not have been shot at all"
Does anyone else feel the utter absurdity of the Israeli government conclusion that Muhammad al-Durrah may not have been shot, despite images of his corpse, his funeral, and examination of his corpse by doctors? I find his father's reaction is quite apt: "Israel says my son isn't dead. He's not dead? Then bring him to me."VR (Please ping on reply) 20:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC)