Talk:Kimmie Meissner

Biography assessment rating comment
WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 19:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Quad-jumping comment
Though CastAStone pointed out that one female skater has landed a quad, is it really necessary or particularly relevant to note on another skater's page that she has not landed a quad? Considering the rarity and difficulty of a female doing a quad, I don't think that information should be listed on a given female skater's page, and it may be seen as a detractor from her accomplishments. For example, should we list "has not won the Nobel Peace Prize" on the page of every humanitarian who has not won this selective award? Fabricationary 04:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand your point. It's really a judgement call - women will be attempting quads soon regularly, an additional rotation seemes to get added to jumps about every 35 years, and this is about that time. other women are attempting quads, toe loops and salchows, and likely are landing them on occasion, but not often enough to make it worth it to use it in competition (a quad salchow is worth 9.5, if you fall you lose a rotation and have an automatic deduction, leaving the jump worth anywhere from 0.5-3.5, making it an enormous risk). Figure skaters keep these things under wraps, but apparently it is out that Meissner is not attempting quads, despite some other female juniors and seniors definately doing so. It's not a big deal if consensus goes the other way, but its a bit of relevant trivia. --CastAStone|(talk) 06:07, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but at the Olympics this year, several competitors remarked that multiple jump combinations may be the way to go compared to more rotations or more difficult rotations. They evidently score better under the new system and are generally less difficult.

Novice and junior titles
I've removed a claim that "Meissner became the second U.S. lady to ever win the novice and junior national titles in two consecutive years.", because it is untrue. Other ladies who have done this include at least Michelle Cho (1992/93), Lisa Ervin (1990/91), Kathryn Adams (1982/83), Jill Sawyer (1977/78), and probably others going back in earlier years. Dr.frog 21:15, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

You were the one who replaced it with "since barbara roles" then, right? 76.22.63.203 07:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)Erin, 4/22/07

Picture
Shouldn't there be a (non-copyrighted) picture somewhere of Kimmie? Emily ( Funtrivia Freak ) 01:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That picture of her next to the table... maybe there should be a caption or something? It doesn't really add much to the article if there's just a random picture of her without explaining the context.Ychennay 22:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've added the caption. It was from the 2005 World Junior Championships long program. There really should be a more recent picture somewhere (Circa 2006 Worlds, perhaps?). –- kungming·  2 (Talk)  05:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It is my photo of Meissner. Unfortunately, I haven't been to any events where she competed since 2005. A more recent photo would be ideal but most are unfree and of poor quality. She doesn't look that different ... yet. :) Vesperholly 10:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Location
"A native of Maryland, Meissner moved to Newark, Delaware" is incorrect--Kimmie still lives in Bel Air and goes to FHS.

She is not the first American women to win Four Continents. In 2006, Katy Taylor (American) won Four Continents.

"lady" v. "woman"
I don't really need to get into a discussion about which word "should" be used. But if you insist on using "lady", at least be consistent. The intro paragraph first uses "woman" and then "lady", which does not make sense. --Fang Aili talk 18:46, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

GA hold
This article is close to passing, but I have a few concerns I'd like to see addressed. First, I feel the introduction needs to be better conform to Lead section standards and possibility being a little longer. The guidelines suggest that the lead should be between 1 to 2 paragraphs, but the if the article was just a little bit bigger, the lead would need to be between 2-3 paragraphs. I'm suggesting the lead should be 2 paragraphs to allow the article to grow. As it stands, we have one short paragraph. Secondly, I feel the personal life section is too short. I'd like to see it at least another 3 lines longer. What do her parents do? What kind of high school student was she? This is based on the coverage requirement. Thirdly, more critically, it seems to me that some of text merely states her placement at events. It would be great if more details of those events were added to the article. Adding details can get out of hand, but a little adding would be nice. For example, the paragraph that mentions the Four Continents Championship doesn't give the event much detail when the event has some significance. The event occurred in the United States at Colorado Springs and it was probably one of the first times (as far as I know), where the top US skaters (1-3 place) actually showed up. Similarly, the 2008 US Nationals, for instance, she was the favorite. Same in 2007. When she won the World title in 2006, it was an upset. Additionally, there are some other points that might warrant bringing up. What about what she declared she was concentrating on during a season? In 2006-2007 season, I recall Meissner saying she was working on her spins. There's no talk of her skating style of strengths, but that's really hard to define so I won't require the article to try to describe it. Also, there might be something from her post skate question and answer that could be added but that is just an optional suggestion. Adding post event tv commentary can get difficult. Not all these details need to be added. If you have any questions, please feel free to message me on my talk page. And I added a reference needed tag in the one place in the article that needed it. Good luck.User:calbear22 (talk) 06:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm working on some of these. I really don't want to add television comments, because I know that they are trying to build a storyline to sell to viewers which may or may not have any resemblance to reality, and I don't have any faith in their ability to explain COP. I'd like to get into the article somewhere about Meissner's jumps, specifically the fact that she lips and has a true lutz, but I'm not sure where something like should go. Ideas? Considering ladies skating these days, it might even be notable that she doesn't do a Biellmann, but I'm not sure that's notable enough (and probably would be OR anyway.) Kolindigo (talk) 21:04, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * She's had a lot of trouble doing a true lutz this season, but you would need to find a source that said she was doing the triple flutz in the past. The judges got stricter on the calling of that jump this year.
 * Being notable or not notable is really debatable. You could add the Biellmann but you would need to provide a source establishing that that position had become common place among top female skaters.  Such a claim would probably require more than one source.  I do agree with you that the Biellmann has become common place.  A skating style or skills section would be a great addition to this article, but adding one is not required for the article to gain good article status.  In short from my last comments, the article just needs the intro longer (twice as long or more), a few more sentences in the personal section, and a few more sourced facts, like the ones I mentioned, added to the senior career section.User:calbear22 (talk) 00:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

GA approval
I made a few other small changes concerning the introduction and combining paragraphs in the personal section. The layout guidelines prefer not having short paragraphs.

1. Prose-Check, 2. Verifiable-Check 3. Coverage- Check 4. Neutral- Check 5. Stable- Check 6. Images- Check

Suggestions for improvement: Some expansion of the personal section, some added detail to events in her career (much improvement made), and some section concerning her skating skills or style.User:calbear22 (talk) 00:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Re-write/re-vamp
Hi everyone, I've just finished re-writing, re-vamping, and updating this article. It passed as GA 12 years ago, and no longer fulfilled the GA criteria, so I took it on, much like bios of other skaters I've edited. I feel it's necessary to point out a few things.
 * Sources were a challenge for this article. I think that most of the sources are reliable enough for a GA.  I used many of the sources used in other skating bios: Golden Skate for event reports, U.S. Figure Skating (Ice Network for older, archived articles) for event reports and some competition results, ISU sources for competition results.  I had to use some paywalled sources, such as The New York Times, the Chicago Tribune, the Washington Post, and most notably, the Baltimore Sun.  The Sun makes up for 36 of the total references used, or almost 1/4th, and out of that, reporter Candis Thomson wrote 21 (over 58%, she must have been put on the Kimmmie Meissner beat, lol).  I think the reason is obvious, Kimmie is from the area, of course.  I also think that reporters were focusing and writing about other skaters at the time--Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Johnny Weir, Evan Lysacek, and they didn't realize her importance at first.  The variety of sources increased after her triple axel, but it went down again towards the end of her career.
 * Images: I personally don't think that any article should have too many images; one per section, depending on the topic. The issue with this skating bio is that there are only a couple of images in Commons of Kimmie on a podium, so there aren't many images in the Programs and Results sections.  I'll leave the decision of adding other images to other editors.  In other words, does anyone think that some of her other available images should be placed in those sections?
 * My fellow editors, how is the tone of this article? Is it balanced, or overly harsh regarding Kimmie's "inconsistency", or too positive?  I tried to reflect what the sources state. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 03:04, 3 July 2020 (UTC)