Talk:Kindertotenlieder

Stub
I've turned this into a stub. Can we get rid of the speedy deletion notice now? Ortonmc 00:01, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * Sure! Mark Richards 00:04, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Timing
Undoubtedly I'm nitpicking here, but the text says this work takes about 20 minutes to perform. I'm no expert on this particular composition, but the recording I have (Bernstein, Baker, IPO) is about 29 minutes long. Unless this is uncommon, I suggest changing the text to say the work takes close to half an hour to perform. Anyone can attest at to some other recording length, or preferably even knows the true "average" performance length?

89.139.92.180 (talk) 18:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you. The Fischer-Dieskau performance currently posted on the article sums to 24:33, and I notice that since you wrote this in 2009, someone put the figure at 25 minutes.  My guess is that Bernstein is likely to be an outlier on the high side for length, so lacking further data I feel 25 is probably not too bad.  Opus33 (talk) 00:20, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Cause of Maria's death
The Mahler bio page notes the cause of death of Maria Anna as diphtheria, while here the culprit was scarlet fever. One is right, and one is wrong! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.174.102.195 (talk) 13:26, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

~Dear whomever: logic is not the domain of wikipedia. Nor sources. Until you have proof that one and not the other killed her, your observation is merely an opinion and she clearly died of both things. Sincerely: every edit and talk comment ever provided deleted. Rest assured, some astute self-ordained snob will delete this as well. Good riddance to electronic rubbish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.52.200 (talk) 10:30, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Translation (1)
I have not yet compared all of the texts given here with the Rückert poems, but I did notice that the text of the second poem is the Rückert poem and not the lyric of the Mahler song. Mahler did adapt texts to his own needs when composing.204.110.16.27 (talk) 22:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Translation (2)
Although the translation "Songs on the death of children" may be the one generally used today, I find it inappropriate. For now I will add a second translation (Children's songs about Death) that I see more closely resembling the actual meaning, since the title itself is a combination of the words Kinder (Children, though in this context children's) and Totenlieder (Songs of the dead, Death songs).

While not born into the German language, I speak only German when I travel there, and am fluent in speaking, reading and writing that language. I find "Songs on the death of children" exactly correct as a translation of "Kindertotenlieder." I don't think it was your intent, but "Children's songs about death" implies that these are the songs of children, on the subject of death. Of course, these are the songs of an adult, grieving the death of his children.Madison Max (talk) 04:06, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Of course, these aren't children's songs, and the commonly accepted translation over the last century is the appropriate one. There's no justification for "Children's songs about death".

Mommy
"Mommy", in the current translation of "Wenn dein Mütterlein", strikes me as a particularly American/slangy usage and is rather jarring as a translation of German "Mütterlein" (the diminutive of "Mutter", 'mother'). Instead I've put in "Mama"; like "Mommy" it's an affectionate term, but it would seem more plausible in referring to the parent of German children.

I also used the first two lines, rather than just one, as the incipit; this seems clearer and avoids yet another unwanted slang connotation (viz., "yo Momma"). Opus33 (talk) 21:18, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes better. Johnbod (talk) 21:33, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Much preferable. William Avery (talk) 21:36, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Much better. When I saw your edit, I just assumed you were repairing vandalism. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 22:42, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

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