Talk:Kindred (novel)

Characters section
I'm removing this section. It has multiple inaccuracies and lacks attention to Standard English. A copy of the original text is below if someone wants to edit it and paste it back in. Naq (talk) 02:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Characters

Dana A modern black woman with the mannerisms of a white male, Dana constantly takes involuntary trips to the past. She is called upon to the Antebellum south to save her ancester, Rufus. Kindred begins on Jun 9, 1976, on the day of her twenty-sixth birthday. Her full name is Edana Franlkin, and she is married to Kevin, a white male, a fact that causes her much plight thoughout the course of kindred. When she is physically transported to the past, to aid her ancester, she feels physically ill, even naucious. When Dana is transported to the past, she notes that the "room seemed to blur and darken" around her (ZButler 13). Dana is called upon to save rufus, who was at the time a "small red haired boy" who was currently floating face down. After giving him artificial respiration, the fater of Rufus, Tom weyland, though that Dana was the reason why his son was unconcious, whereupon she was threatened with a rifle. At the time, she found that the fear of death had the power of transporting her back to the future, with her husband panic.

Cover picture
The dooky cover picture is significantly over-saturated. The purple is much closer to grey on the actual cover.Stale Fries 03:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:OctaviaEButler Kindred.jpg
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Suggestions for improvements to Kindred from Spring 2014 ENG103 class at LaGuardia

 * I've taken the liberty of refactoring the talk page, and grouping the students' suggestions into a few broad areas to clarify things and ease follow-up discussion, I hope that's ok.--Pharos (talk) 23:10, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Pharos!! Looking good. :-) DrX (talk) 02:26, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Introduction and format

 * Write a more intriguing, captivating introduction so that readers will be more interested in reading this novel.Lissetlot15 (talk) 19:02, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The intro should briefly step into the world of slavery and recollect key points in history to provide a small background on the topic. It should transition from a brief background of slavery to basic information on Edana(Dana)Franklin, and her current situation. Ronin1123 (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * My suggestions would be to add more details to the topic and write it down in bullet form so its more visual and quick to study. An286 (talk) 19:11, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Plot

 * One thing that can be changed about this article is that the summary isn't as thorough as it should be. The prologue; which is one of the most important parts of the book wasn't included at all and the prologue kind of sets the tone for the rest of the book and it was put in the book on purpose which is why it should've been included. The prologue will relate back to the end of the book and if it is not included, readers will be confused. Redhead321 (talk) 19:04, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * My suggestion the article should be a little less descriptiveAdoreher (talk) 19:05, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I think that before getting into the whole story it could've had started with what happened in the prologue. Also the summary of the chapter can be a bit more detailed.Jarika5230 (talk) 19:06, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * This is good description of the story "Kindred" by Octavia E. Butler, but theirs is a lot of information in each paragraph. This basically give away every detail, leaving none for the reader to find out when reading the book. Gpo20 (talk) 19:07, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * My suggestion would be that the author of this article did not give the whole book away, I am currently reading this book and now I'm no longer that interested because i know what happens at the end.Maxamillion412 (talk) 19:07, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * My suggestion is for the plot to be broken down into each chapter with a more in depth summary. The North Remembers16 (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I think you should of never gave away the ending. By giving away the end, you ruined the book for those you are reading the book. Goldilocks14 (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2014 (UTC) Goldilocks14


 * The novel begins in a very mysterious way, which starts with Dana's losing her left arm and about year of her life. Then her husband arrives to the hospital and they both confused and don't know how this happened. So Octavia Butler started her novel in a very mysterious way that we are readers get instantly interested that we want to read more and finish reading it right away. However, the article didn't do justice to the way author started her novel.US:Mayday (talk) 19:48, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Themes and style

 * There is so much more to the novel "Kindred". Butler as an author purposely withdraws information from the reader . It would be great to discuss Butler's writing techniques and the reasons behind them. Why does the story unfold the way that it does and what significance does it have . Primadonnagirl123 (talk) 19:01, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * A suggestion I have for this article would be to speak about the theme more instead of jumping straight into the details of the novel. Telissa18 (talk) 19:03, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The major themes of the novel Kindred should be discussed in this article. Mel26 19:08, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I would add more major themes that was throughout the story. There are more that should be written about. teekay25 (talk) 19:06, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The wiki article overview of Kindred should include a section for background information regarding slavery. It is a crucial part of understanding much of the symbolism and undertones that you will have to be able to interpret in the book. There should also be a section dedicated to the Major Themes in Kindred. It is the most important part of the book. What lessons did you learn from the book ? What were some of the motifs or reoccurring themes ?,Milokarter39 (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The story is well written but i would like to see more about history and her backgrounds. It will be very helpful because slavery is very important to understand and to feel those emotions that was written by Octavia Butler. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nina9723 (talk • contribs) 19:33, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Characters

 * One suggestion I can make toward this article is to write about the characters; how do their personalities change through the novel. Also, what are the themes that the author uses throughout the story. Redrosex1025 (talk) 19:04, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The page does not offer some of the very important concepts people would want to know when reading this article. One of them for instance, is characters in the novel. I believe is quite important for the characters to be openly discussed and sorted out. The roles that these characters play are a key point on how the story develops. Lets take Dana's husband, Kevin he is a white-modern man who cannot grasp the whole concept of slavery neither can he understand how that affects Dana. However, he is the one in which Dana relies one, the one that's always there when she comes back form the past. These type of relationships should be explained and discussed in this article, it really will improve it and will increase the understanding of the readers. Joe0312 (talk) 19:06, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I am very distressed by the way that Kevin is portrayed in this list--I do not believe that Kevin was a loving husband to Dana. Butler uses language that likens him to Tom and Rufus Weylin multiple times, perhaps trying to showcase that he is not loving, but rather that he is operating on historical oppressive dynamics. Kevin frequently makes Dana uncomfortable with his strong grip, his controlling and dismissive nature, and his ability to accept slavery and his status as a slave-owner. I don't believe Kevin has been accurately described on this page. I have made edits that rectify this in my mind, but I would be very curious to hear how others view Kevin.

Kindred Suggestions
The majority of sentences in this article should be structured differently & instead of jumping for one thing to the next add more details/information that would make the article seem more interesting and flow with the theme. SNSmith27 (talk) 23:38, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

replacing the dead link The book Of Martha
In the Bibliography In Kindred Octavia Butler there are many links and sources that aren't accurate such as (http://www.scifi.com/).Eventhough this link is dead it's no science fiction in this book at all this is why it should be deleted and replaced. Watoflifej23 (talk) 18:34, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Deleted section on time travel
here is the section deleted from the article because it is not sourced yet:
 * On each occasion that Dana travels back in time, her stay on the plantation becomes longer: though she is only gone from the present initially ranging from a period of 15 seconds, to several minutes to finally, several hours, she is stuck in the past for first some minutes, then days and months. Dana goes back in time when circumstances surrounding Rufus' survival dictate it, as perceived by him; her travels are also constrained to returning to the Weylin plantation, and not other venues. Conversely, Dana's only means of returning to the present is when she is sufficiently frightened and believes herself to be in danger of dying. It is only after she kills Rufus towards novel's end that her travels cease, but not without a price: on her last trip back to the present, she re-materializes in 1976 with her left arm embedded in the plaster wall of her house.  The arm is later amputated to the elbow. Dana also is able to transport objects and even people back in time with her, as is shown when she transports a denim bag of useful items (including a knife, a change of clothes, money, toiletries, and paper) tied around her waist with her, and her husband, Kevin, when he grabs onto her before she vanishes on her third trip, and falls on her during their return later in the novel.The North Remembers16 (talk) 18:45, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Additional References
Maryland in the American Civil War Some readers might not immediately identify with Maryland as the "antebellum south". It was, of course. But a link to this page might help. HullIntegrity (talk) 19:28, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Opening Revision?
That dangling modifier is killing me. How about the following?: Kindred (first published in 1979) is a bestselling novel by the award-winning American science-fiction author Octavia E. Butler. Widely popular, Kindred is regularly chosen as a common reading by community-wide reading programs and book organizations as well as being a consistent text choice for high school and college courses. HullIntegrity (talk) 19:49, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Assuming, of course, that you do not want to highlight "African American" in the lead. HullIntegrity (talk) 19:55, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Following the last revision how about something like this: Kindred, the bestselling novel of American science-fiction author Octavia E. Butler, is notable for its conflation of both the conventions or time-travel tales and slave narratives. HullIntegrity (talk) 14:37, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello HullIntegrity (talk). I guess we need to figure out what makes the novel notable. Certainly the fusion/splicing of the genres was an issue at the time of its publishing and has brought about much discussion among scholars. Still, the fact that it has sold steadily since 1979 is the one fact mentioned by most that I can recall. P.S. I assume the "or" in "or time-travel tales and slave narratives" is a typo and the word is  "of." --DrX (talk) 15:39, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. Typo. HullIntegrity (talk) 19:58, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Author's quotes
I moved this from the article page to the talk page because most of the quotes were used in earlier sections The North Remembers16 (talk) 19:22, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

"I was trying to get people to feel slavery," Butler said in a 2004 interview. "I was trying to get across the kind of emotional and psychological stones that slavery threw at people." In another interview, she said, "I think people really need to think what it's like to have all of society arrayed against you."

The book is set on Maryland's Eastern Shore. Butler said she chose the setting "because I wanted my character to have a legitimate hope of escape," and because two famous African Americans, Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman, had been enslaved there.

According to Octavia Butler in a later autobiographical book, Rufus's body was later found in the walls.

Reference?
This assertion was placed as part of the novel's plot, though it is not in the book. I cannot a reference to it in Kenan's interview of Butler either: Rufus's body was later found in the rubble by cleanup workers. Ref: Butler, Octavia E. "An Interview with Octavia E. Butler." Randall Kenan. Callaloo 14.2 (1991): 496. JSTOR. Web. 26 April 2014. --DrX (talk) 14:21, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello 137.112.231.88. I had to undo your addition of this assertion. As I explain here, this event does not appear anywhere in the novel, so it cannot be part of the article’s plot section. Also, I have read Kenan’s interview of Butler again and there is no reference to this event. As a matter of fact, not one of the sources I have read about Kindred mentions this event.--DrX (talk) 13:54, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Biased language/NPOV
While I think any decent person should agree with the premise that slavery is one of the worst crimes in human history, it's probably inappropriate to write the Wikipedia page from that premise. You know, we should make it mostly without moral judgment and let the reader bring their own ideas to it? It's kind of difficult to discuss because there has to be at least some indication that slavery is bad to keep from orienting the encyclopedia in a pro-slavery direction, but at the same time there shouldn't be a romantic take on this anti-slavery material. The page just has a feel of like a teacher lecturing about how the book illustrates the evils of slavery rather than being encyclopedic. I think it could use some adjustment. --OGoncho (talk) 10:33, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Too lengthy discussion of plot
It's a terrific book, but the plot is supposed to be summarized, not described in detail by chapter. See guidelines for novels and read other articles about novels. For the same reason, the discussion of characters should be shorter for each, as this section goes into great detail as well. Because of the over abundance of detail, the article is repetitive in many sections. Parkwells (talk) 17:52, 21 February 2018 (UTC)