Talk:King (Tekken)/Archive 1

About the story
I always believed that King's reason for leaving the orphanage in Tekken 2 was because, while he was fighting, one of his child was killed in a car accident, making King felt guilty for not being there to help him. What's the correct story? (Johnny Master 09:33, 16 April 2006 (UTC)).

Pic of T2 ending
Where's it gone? - The 4th Snake

Only one photo of King is needed. No other photos are needed. KristiRenee 21:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Tekken 3 story
Many people believe Ogre killed the first King. This is largely due to the lack of details provided over the years. However many of the T3 bios for other characters on here, including Ling and Eddy, are copied word for word from the August and September issues of Megafan magazine from 1997. In these same magazines, King's bio reveals Armor King as the killer and Ogre as the scapegoat. In actuality, this makes some things much more logical, such as King's PSX Tekken 3 ending, where Armor King is seen depressed with his mask off after King wins his match. - Xion one 10:54 24, December 2006 (UTC)


 * That is in the article, but it doesn't make much sense to me. Why would Armor King kill King I? I thought that they were friends. Friends and rivals, but friends, nontheless. Does that magazine say why Armor King killed King I? Does it explain whether it was an accident or on purpose? Unless it does, I find it hard to believe that he would do such a thing. It doesn't make sense. Your thoughts about King II's Tekken 3 ending make sense, I'll admit that. I just find the part about Armor King killing King I weird. KristiRenee 21:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The bio simply states that Armor King was full of guilt and remorse for being responsible for King's death, and that training the new King was out of respect. Armor King represents a darker and more violent side of wrestling, so anything is possible... friend or not.  Theoretically speaking, accidents happen in wrestling.  You could look at it like this:  the story makes more sense as opposed to Ogre killing King.  At the time of Tekken 3's story, Ogre had just recently surfaced and was killing random fighters. If Ogre killed King, it would have happened four years before Tekken 3 even occurred and before Ogre actually existed in the story... which makes no sense at all. Xion one 04:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * We're not here to speculate on what makes sense and what doesn't. What story does the instruction manual for Tekken 3 give?  That's the story that goes in the article.  Any other theories are going to require an attributable source. King Zeal 12:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The story in the article is the one I myself put, and it is from the sources stated above. And yes, we are here to speculate and clear things up because due to a lack of details, a false story has been led to be true for a long time.  I even edited the Tekken 3 main page where it stated King was killed by Ogre and someone edited it back.  I'm simply trying to make sure everyone is on the same page, otherwise people will just keep editing in the future. --Xion one 21:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * No, we are NOT here to speculate. If a source is posted, then it's no longer speculation but fact.  Wikipedia is not for Original Research, spearheading a particular idea, or to make a point.  If anything is added to the page without a corresponding source, it should be deleted.  Now, about your "sources" (I don't see any listed anywhere):  Is that official from Namco?  Also, is there any way that you can provide a link to it so that the rest of us may verify its authenticity?  King Zeal 22:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all, I'm not here to argue. The speculatory part stems from the fact that, although the story is legit, I and KristiRenee are speculating the "why" part of it, so cool off... it's not that serious.  Secondly, what do you mean you don't see the "sources?"  They're right there in the first post of this entire discussion.  Read that post over and you will see the source.  The story I posted on King's page is mostly intact from the magazine except for small differences, the most significant being the removal of some dialogue, and also I noted his death as being 'accidental.'  This was done because I knew people like KristiRenee would question and speculate, so the 'accidental' part was to defer from that and give people less of a reason to question it.  The 'accidental' can be edited out as it does not matter at this point... the bulk of the story is canon.  As far as links, here you go:.--Xion one 03:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/1031/13591129ha7.jpg


 * http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8589/34121444sz6.jpg


 * http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8862/71417551xy2.jpg


 * I would hope this silence the doubts.--Xion one 03:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Here's the issue: When I said I didn't see any "sources", I meant that simply saying "I read an article and it said 'X'" is not properly citing a source.  Think of it this way:  How many people could claim that?  I'm glad you provided pics of the actual article, but there's still the matter of in-universe writing as well as credibility.  To fix this problem, the article should state:  "According to Megafan magazine, King was BLAH BLAH BLAH".  That way, we don't make the assumption that this is correct or incorrect--it's simply sourced information.


 * You see what I'm saying? King Zeal 05:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I see your point, but I don't agree with it. For one, I specified an actual name for the magazine, not "I read an article and it said this and that."  To me, there is a difference.  As far as credibility goes, you're basically implying it's okay to believe everyone else's story except for King's even though they all came from the same source, since at one point on here, just about everybody had their stories copied word for word from what is written in Megafan.  Obviously some recent article cleanups have been going on and they are no longer the same as they were around the time I first posted the King bio months ago.  If they were, my point would be... if you're going to subject THIS bio to that (putting "As stated in Megafan magazine") you'd matter as well do it to every Tekken 3 bio on here which is taken from these same source.


 * Now my issue is this: why was the article edited? I'm not going to claim it was you or not, but I don't appreciate wasting time in typing up something from a magazine, wasting time to confirm it by posting images of the magazine, only to have significant parts of it edited it out.  At least leave it intact and post "Megafan" as a source.--Xion one 02:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Stop taking it so personally. Everybody here, at some point, has put considerable time and effort into editing an article only to have it undone, reverted, deleted, or re-edited by someone else later.  (The Kuja article I extensively edited has been redirected and severely reduced, for example.)  I know I've edited my fair share of the King article, but I didn't do so maliciously and was only going by what information I could personally verify.  Remember, until you posted those pics, all we really had to go on about the article was your word.  Megafan magazine hasn't been in print for a LONG time, so the information in any specific article isn't easy to come by.


 * Now, that said, the problem with what you're saying is that citing sources should be done in a very clear and formal fashion to avoid "in-universe" perspective. Now, I agree that if every article truly IS copied nearly word-for-word from the aforementioned article in Megafan, then they should all be changed.  However, in doing so, you would have to provide proper citations of the Megafan article in each one.  I personally don't have a copy, so it would be up to you and anyone else who has a copy.  (Or, of course, if you can provide a link to another source, that'd be fine, too.)


 * Take a look at what I've been trying to do in the Jin Kazama article. I've written much of it out-of-universe and provided as many sources (mostly from the games themselves) as I could.  If you have a copy of his profile, too, however, I'll add it to his page with proper citations.


 * Remember, basic rule of thumb to remember is that any information that Namco provides us takes precedent over any second-hand info. Therefore, if our goal is to provide the true "canon" story for King, we start with the games first and then add everything else to fill in details.


 * Does that sound like a plan? King Zeal 12:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not really taking it personally. It's just that it simply feels like no one wants to believe the story, and that is what is leading to the edits.  It's no longer a big deal though, since my original intent was to provide something better than the paragraph that was there prior and that has been done.  Eddy, Ling, and numerous others had Megafan-based bios at the time I typed up the one for King.  I figured since they were from that source, then it'd be okay to use that same source to provide a proper bio for King.  As it stands now, just about all those bios have been severely downsized and redone to the point where they don't even resemble the Megafan ones.  So the "if you do it to this one, do it to all of them" thing is basically thrown out the window.


 * I was reading Jin's bio in Megafan, and it appears I was wrong about something that I posted earlier. I thought Ogre had appeared only 'recently' (Tekken 3 story wise), but Jin's story definitely makes it clear Ogre was around when he was 15, which is 4 years prior to Tekken 3.  In actuality, this would make the "Ogre killed King 1" story not as farfetched as I thought, but the Armor King story in combination with King's PSX ending still adds up.


 * As far as Jin's story, do you have an email address you can provide? I'd type up what is in Megafan and send it to you, and from there you can edit and/or add details from Tekken 4 and 5.--Xion one 23:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * My email is mirrordestiny@hotmail.com. King Zeal 04:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * If the King issue hasn't been settled, here we go. My Tekken 3 manual clearly states that King 1 was "savagely attacked by Ogre. His mentor's dying wish was for King to take over the orphanage". Emperor Bohe 13:07, 03 July 2007 (UTC)

Same character
While yes, storywise, they are two seperate characters, should the two Kings, for all intents and purposes, be considered the same character. Namco themselves treat them as the same character, never referring to the King in Tekken 3 and onwards as King II or the second King. Hell, this is one of the few sites that I've seen that treat King as two seperate characters. We're nearly saying something that may not be true; we don't want to prove that this guy is right about us now do we? Take Blackadder for example. The numerous incarnations of Blackadder, despite existing in different times, are usually considered for all intents and purposes to be the same character. I'd like someone's opinion on this sometime soon. Michael Mad 13:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, the approach that this site has taken is wrong. To all intents and purposes 'King' is the name of one character in the Tekken series. Technicalities are irrelevant and certainly need to be omitted from the first line of the article description. Worse still, Wikipedia is primarily a site aimed at teaching people about a subject that they may be new to, and the most important mantra to consider is "keep it as brief and understandable as possible". The Tekken articles seem to go out of their way to disregard plain facts for the sake of showing off trivia. The precedent with the comic character The Phantom stands; As per the character's page - "The Phantom as of 2008 is the 21st in the line". Of course no-one would refer to an older version of this character as "The Phantom 19" that would be ludicrous, but for the sake of being overtly anal that's what the writer's of Wiki's Tekken articles are doing and it needs to stop, lest we misinform everyone who isn't au fait with the Tekken storylines. I'm removing the line "two different characters..." for the article's benefit - this story information can obviously be explained somewhere in the article (most probably under King's T3 story outline) but to state that there are two 'different' characters called King is just leading readers down the garden path. Mr.bonus (talk) 01:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Kingthefirst.jpg
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BetacommandBot 05:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Guin Saga
Anyone notice the similarity? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.103.101 (talk) 14:37, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Gameplay section is incorrect.
The wrestling moves King applies are based on Japanese pro wrestlers, not soley on american WWE moves. It must be remembered Namco are based in Japan and Puroresu does have it's influence.

King using the Sharpshooter is a nod to Riki Choshu, King using the Shining Wizard is a nod to Keiji Mutoh. King's Yakuza Kick is a nod to Masahiro Chono. King using the Tombstone is not soley influenced by The Undertaker or Kane, it is a move used by many light heavy weights such as Jyushin Thunder Liger and The Great Sasuke. King also uses the Liger Bomb which again is a nod to Japanese pro wrestler, Jyushin Thunder Liger. All the wrestlers mentioned are household names and are considered a major part of japan's wrestling history.

Why is there no research beyond America into King's desgin influence? 82.3.48.129 (talk) 05:25, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

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On King "the First" vs King "I/II"
A few months ago, made an edit that changed all mention of the two Kings' names from Roman numerals to "King the First" and "King the Second." Personally, I don't see any reason for this change, nor could I find any notable uses of writing their names in that way instead of with Roman numerals... So I propose we revert that change. "King the First" is how the names are spoken, not written, from what I understand. Just as with other instances of generational designations in the English language. 𝙷𝚒𝚍𝚍𝚎𝚗𝙼𝚒𝚜𝚜𝚒𝚕𝚎𝚜 (ᴛᴀʟᴋ) 18:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)


 * As a sidenote, I found plenty of instances of people referring to them at "the first King" and "the second King" respectively. Just not as "King the First." 𝙷𝚒𝚍𝚍𝚎𝚗𝙼𝚒𝚜𝚜𝚒𝚕𝚎𝚜 (ᴛᴀʟᴋ) 18:08, 19 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I realize my claims are unsubstantiated, so I'll put together some kind of evidence (albeit quite roughly). When searching for pages that contain both "King the First" and "Tekken" on Google, the first 4 results in the order that they appear are: this Wikipedia article, an analysis of Tekken plot published by Sophie Cheshire to IGN in 2003, a message posted by user "ehrgeiz" to a Neoseeker forum in 2010, and a comment left by Facebook user Andres Olag in a Tekken-related Facebook group 3 years ago. Doing the same thing with "King I" and "Tekken" gets us: two results from the Tekken Fandom wiki, this Wikipedia article, and King's character page from Neoseeker's Tekken wiki. 𝙷𝚒𝚍𝚍𝚎𝚗𝙼𝚒𝚜𝚜𝚒𝚕𝚎𝚜   (ᴛᴀʟᴋ) 01:09, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

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