Talk:King Edward's School, Birmingham/Archive 1

Public school?
Is KES a "public school", in the British sense of the word? Since it is part of the HMC...

The plaque says (iirc) "independent day school." Does that mean "public school?"--Quadalpha 01:23, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

No... A "British" public school would be a boarding school, and KES pupils don't live at the school itself. --Amortize 09:31, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Scratch that, you know more about it than I do! It seems the school is sometimes referred to as a "minor public school"... --Amortize 09:36, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hm, I always thought that boarding wasn't neccessary for it to be a public school. But I'll defer to you, since you probably know more about it!

Though the HMC page does say "Membership of the HMC is often considered as what defines a school as a public school, placing it amongst the more prestigious independent schools." --


 * grin* I wouldn't say I know more about it at all! I think you're probably right, now I know a little more about this! --Amortize 16:27, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

At one stage, there was a technical difference by which KES wasn't a public school (it was something to do with the government's Direct Grant scheme - if any current boys are reading this, it's explained in detail in one year's Chronicle some time in the 1960s (hopefully the school library haven't thrown them out like they did with most of the rest of the contents of the high shelves)). Now it's not a public school because the last few Chiefies haven't wanted to call it one. Of course, there have at various times been attempts to make KES more or less élitist. The term "Chief Master" arose in an élitising phase in the early '50s - if you look at the board with the names of the Chief Masters on it, you'll see that the title has been screwed on over the former title of Head Master. 82.36.26.229 14:04, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's not a public school. Here's a list. They have Edgbaston High School here but not KES.  81.110.191.53 (talk) 21:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The school was originally founded by Edward VI, a young and short-lived monarch, and became an independent grammar school. In the 1940s it became a "direct grant" school funded by central and local government, and providing free places to many of its pupils (up to 75% at one time). Entrance was by exam, and pupils came from all over Birmingham (train and bus fares were also paid for those qualifying for free places). In the late 1970s the school became independent after prolonged opposition from the city council to the idea of selective education, thus depriving clever but poorer pupils from the opportunity to attend. The school still has an assisted places scheme. It describes itself as an "independent day school" but it is a public school in all but name, being long-established, selective, and having a similar jargon of houses, prefects, colours, and the like. Mizunooto (talk) 10:32, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

"One of the leading secondary schools in the country"
Can anyone back this up with facts (e.g. exam results) - and for that matter clarify what they mean by 'leading'? Ditto for the use of 'top' to describe the girls' school.Valiantis 00:29, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Added 2004 'league table' results to substantiate the claim and replaced 'one of the leading' and 'one of the top' with the more verifiable 'one of the most academically successful'. Valiantis 18:21, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Now, now, you know KES isn't an exam factory. It's about creating well-rounded individuals, "keep your head and play the game", and all that nonsense. 82.36.26.229 14:04, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * As the man most commonly remarked as the most hard core edwardian, i think i can answer this question. KES was once (in both GCSE and A level) a top 10 school for these results. Unfortunately, something (or someone)changed, and KES has become an exam machine. But hopefully, under the new CM, that will all change, and we will revert back to the good old days.

ummmm..I dont think I appreciate the comment on the school being an exam factory...well at least not the girls' school. As a matter of fact the general ethos is very relaxed...probs why the boy's school smells alot hee hee--me

I wouldn't think of it as an exam factory either. It's not solely paying attention to grades and image, something I can attest to since I only left a couple of years ago. It's very rounded and most of what it does doesn't get any publicity in bulletins or chronicles etc. The best of KES is that they don't seem to highlight; the personality. P-Toolan 25th Jan 2006

number of king edwards schools
There are a number of king edwards schools around Birmingham. is there an article about those schools too? tommylommykins 17:53, July 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * The other schools have articles which can be accessed via the article for King Edward Schools Foundation. This article was not wikilinked in the text of the KES article, but I'm just about to add the link. Valiantis 18:59, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Struck me that the article on the Foundation was inaccurately titled so I've moved it to Foundation of the Schools of King Edward VI Valiantis 19:30, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

The "рecnut vandal"
Hey guys, it seems that the рecnut vandal isn't a vandal. The website he links to actually has a page about the first XI cricket team.--Quadalpha 05:17, August 23, 2005 (UTC)


 * the рecnut website is of no historical or academic significance, and has a lot of other irrelevant information there. Wikipedia is not a link directory, and I will continue to delete this on sight. Fawcett5 21:52, 28 August 2005 (UTC)


 * It's fair enough to say that the Рecnut site does have some irrelevant stuff on it. Has anyone actually bothered emailing the administrator alerting him/her about the constant link on Wikipedia? Alternatively, you could just link to the Cricket part of the site. It's highly unlikely that the administrator doesn't know of the constant linking on Wiki. Also, you say that Wiki isn't a link directory, when in fact it does have quite a lot of exterior links. My suggestion would be to link to the cricket section of the site and send the administrator an email. Normally does the trick.GoldenTie 18:18, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Evans
I thought Evans was green ... --Quadalpha 16:50, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe this was changed by an anon user a few days ago. I guess it got missed when other bits of vandalism got corrected. I'm restoring the old info now. Valiantis 16:47, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Music School disappears
Is there a reason for the sections on school structure and the music school just apparently vanishing? As of this version the information is still there: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=King_Edward%27s_School%2C_Birmingham&oldid=37270785 It's a bit worrying to see information disappearing from the web. If people vandalize the page a lot, it just has to be reverted, but that's far better than having the information not even present. Any comments on the reasons for this?

P toolan 13:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Goodness, you're right! It seems that we've all missed that edit for some reason. --Quadalpha 16:27, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Repeated Vandalism
As nostalgic as it is reading all of this vandalism is (and interesting to know that nothing EVER changes, even after a couple of years after leaving KES), would it not be an idea to implement one of Wikipedia's anti-vandalism techniques to this article to prevent the usual anonymous vandals?

Photos
If anyone has any images of the school that could be placed in the public domain then it would be great to have some sort of visual representation of the school. As unexpected as it comes, I have none that could be used because they all have people in them, and since I'm not in the area at the moment, can't just run past...

Anyone? -P toolan 15:41, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Named staff
I wonder what people think about the tendency of staff names to creep into this article. I would have thought it not appropriate unless they were themselves well known and worthy of an article? Oosoom 18:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm going to tidy up the article. GoldenTie 16:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Just removed the name of the school chaplain.82.36.217.136 (talk) 19:21, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Combined Cadet Force
Does the school still have a CCF? No mention of it here. If not, when was it disbanded? Barfbagger 09:53, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it still exists. Can anyone add details? Oosoom 12:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I hopefully will get round to doing that soon - I am a member and will be able to provide some key information.Bunceboy

I have added a quick CCF section with current information. -- Woodym555 19:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

According to my leaving book, a Cadet Corps was originally formed in 1865/6 with an Officers' Training Corps estabished in 1907. On what basis is 1906 given as the foundation date? Barfbagger 01:24, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I got the information from a booklet given out to celebrate the CCF centenary year which was celebrated in 2006. Either your leaver's book is wrong or the CCF is out of sync a little bit! Woodym555 17:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Bunceboy, if you are who I think you are, aren't you in the Air Force And also, I added some stuff about clubs and societies, but I wasn't logged in at the time. --MagicMan1995 (talk) 07:38, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

The Cartland Club
Hi, I'm considering writing an article on the Cartland Club. I think it might be interesting if anyone has any memories of what it was and why it was instated to put them on the main page?

The rotters never invited me to join, elitists! Barfbagger 00:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear Barfbagger: I was a member of the Cartland Club in 1962-63. However, I can't offer you much in the way of concrete memories. We had a special room, up some special stairs (barred to non-members), we wore a special tie, and I think we had some minor disciplinary powers - not as much as a prefect's, but just enough to allow you to make a fool of yourself if you tried to use them (I tried once, and my targets just laughed in my face). Apart from that I don't remember much at all - evidently my time as a member did not leave much of an impression. I can't even remember why I was elected: perhaps they needed to make up the numbers. My most vivid single memory is an afternoon during the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962, and a group of us sitting around in the club room getting frightfully worried about the impending Third World War. As there was no telly, I can only suppose we were listening to the BBC. Interesting memory, as I can't recall any other "current events" impinging on life in our ivory tower, unless you count HM's visit in 1955, but that's another story ... Zmajevacka 00:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Out of interest, was the Cartland club held in the Cartland Room, which was accsesible by some stairs near Big School/ the immediate left after coming up the main stair way. --MagicMan1995 (talk) 20:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it was up the stairs near big school. In 88/89 the stairs weren't barred to non-members; there are several other rooms up there. It was a sixth form club that only had room for half the sixth form. Prefects, heads of school societies and first-team players formed the membership. The tie was like a prefect's tie but with red roses rather than yellow. And here's a video. 86.167.34.183 (talk) 13:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the Cartland Club's final year was my final year, 88/89. The school claimed that they abolished the club because it was elitist. The fact that they wanted the room for admin is undoubtedly coincidental. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.196.246 (talk) 01:30, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

School hours
Anybody remember when they discontinued Saturday morning attendance? I seem to think it was around 1965 or 1966. Barfbagger 00:40, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

According to the Chronicle it was 1969-70. A complaint was registered in the Chronicle (did anyone ever read it?) but soundly rebutted by other, more reasonable voices. Mizunooto (talk) 10:45, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

The Shird
When I was a pupil the annual Bromsgrove match was preceded by an illustrated story on the prefect's board about the school mascot - The Shird, a stuffed penguin toy. Does this still go on and what was the origin of the name? Barfbagger 00:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Scout troops?
When I was at KES (1955-1963), you could opt for one of three activities on Friday afternoons: CCF, scouting, or "being a Remnant". For many of my years I was a scout, then I had a spell as a "remnant", then I became a Senior Scout. Scouting could be very tedious, some of the activities taking place in two large and somewhat musty attics over the gym (I think), but it also got me to some places where I might otherwise not have gone - I remember two trips abroad, to Switzerland and Finland: very adventurous for a not-so-adventurous middle class lad like me. Reading J. Coe's novels brought all this, and much more, back in a rush! Zmajevacka 00:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC) PS I meant to ask: is there still scouting at KES? I didn't spot it in the article.

No there is no longer any school scout troop or any remnant of one left. The attics that i presume you are talking about are now modern language and music classrooms Woodym555 17:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Notable Teachers
I noticed this new section with a single entry - S.L.Stacey. I deleted it, please present some justification for this if it needs to be included. Barfbagger 21:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

School Song
I just added the school song at King Edward's School Song. This has been suggested to merge with the main KES article. I considered that it was too big a chunk of text to just drop in the middle of the article & it's kind of big for a footnote too. I think a sensible solution would be a sub-page but they are not approved of under current editorial policy... so I made a new page & here we are.

One last thought is that maybe it would be more appropriate for the song to be at WS.


 * First, what is WS?, second, I think the article might stand on its own if it was King Edward's School Songs and then add in the Quartercentenary song, when they are sung etc. Instead of just the song have the history as well. That article needs bulk to it. Otherwise it will be speedily deleted soon I imagine. Woodym555 17:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The song is not just the song of King Edward School but also of some of the other King Edward Foundation schools in Birmingham.


 * If we do end up changing it to Songs (Plural), then in the interests of completeness, we might want the lyrics and translation of the Quatercentenary Song . . . which I randomly managed to stumble across just now.   Enjoy.

1. Quadringentos iam per annos schola haec nutrivit haud ingratos nos alumnos nosque stabilivit. Nunc ferramus, nunc canamus regi nostro grates. Edwardum Edwardum regem celebramus.

2. Rex fundavit, instauravit scholam haec dilectam; urbs amavit, conservavit tutam ac protectam. Nunc ferramus, nunc canamus urbi nostrae grates. Edwardum Edwardum regem celebramus.

3. Procedamus, gaudeamus iuvenile mente; studeamus, floreamus in florenti gente. Nunc feramus, nunc canamus almae matri grates. Edwardum Edwardum regem celebramus.

Apparent translation:

1. Four hundred years, now, this school has nourished our not ungrateful pupils, stabilising them. Now let us bring, now let us sing, our thanks to the king. Edward, King Edward, we celebrate.

2. The king founded, instaurated, this delectable school; this city loved and cherished it, kept it safe and protected it. Now let us bring, now let us sing, our thanks to the city. Edward, King Edward, we celebrate.

3. Let us go forth, let us rejoice with a youthful spirit; Let us study, let us flourish Amidst a flourishing people. Now let us bring, now let us sing, thanks to our bounteous mother. Edward, King Edward, we celebrate.

I always remember it being referred to as the "Rumpty Tumpty Song", due to the jolly, bouncy, dotted rhythms it followed, all the way through. . the kind of tune that instantly brought a smile to your face. It was really kind of silly :)


 * Nice translation you have there! There was a fourth verse added for the queen's visit:


 * Iam reginae, Glorianae
 * alteri, venustae,
 * disciplinae ac doctrinae
 * memori vetustae,
 * nunc feramus, nunc canamus
 * haud ingrati grates:
 * Elissam Elissam
 * reginam celebramus.


 * --Quadalpha (talk) 02:13, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Houses & Map
Just added a really small thing about how the house names are shortened in sports etc. Also, is it worth putting a map in, similar to the one given to boys starting the school? --MagicMan1995 (talk) 20:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think a map (meaning, I assume, floor plans of the school buildings?) would add much to the article. When I was at KES (1975-82) the house colour for Levett was (as I recall) brown not white. Did this change in the 1980s? 80.176.88.21 (talk) 00:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

International Baccalaureate
I made an edit on the GCSEs, which is correct... Can you tell me why this has been done, or I'll change it back...

TheUnfortunate (talk) 16:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I am unsure of what you are asking? I can see that you have self-reverted yourself regarding the IB. Do you want to re-add it? Woody (talk) 20:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Er, yes that's pretty much it =] I know the IB isn't coming until a few years time, but KES are about to do it.... And also, they're doing iGCSEs now instead in most subjects.... Perhaps for the IB I should have just put scheduled for rather than/IB ? TheUnfortunate (talk) 21:32, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

The International Baccalaureate is now established, so I have edited and referenced accordingly.Chemical Engineer (talk) 12:43, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

House colours
In 1966 the Levett colour was brown. When did it change to white? Chemical Engineer (talk) 17:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Update the league results in the lead
Will an editor living in the area, or connected to the school please update with citations the league table ranking, thanks. Adam37 (talk) 19:30, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Done Chemical Engineer (talk) 22:31, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

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