Talk:King O'Malley

Untitled
Adam's edit has now turned this article into a propaganda diatribe against O'Malley. It needs to be extensively re-written. --14:58, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Adam, you have repeatedly deleted the following information from this article:


 * "In 1889, after working on the campaign of U.S. President James Garfield, he migrated to Queensland."


 * "He also agitated for the establishment of the Commonwealth Bank of Australia, a National bank. In a speech in federal Parliament on his proposed national bank on Sept. 30, 1909, O'Malley emphasized, "The private banking system of the Commonwealth is only a legalized monopoly for the gathering of wealth from the many, and its concentration in the hands of the privileged few... We are legislating for the countless multitudes of future generations. We are in favour of protecting, not only the manufacturer, but also the man who works for him. We wish to protect the oppressed and downtrodden of the earth." The Hamiltonian system should be counterposed to this, he said, adding, "I am the Hamilton of Australia. He was the greatest financial man who ever walked this earth, and his plans have never been improved upon. The American experience should determine us to establish a national banking system which cannot be attacked.""

Are you disputing the accuracy of these items, or are you making an ostentatious display of contempt for the Wikipedia NPOV policy?

--Herschelkrustofsky 21:47, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

For the record, the paragraph that User:Herschelkrustofsky complains has been removed was copied directly from an article, "Australia: The strategic implications of Pauline Hanson's election victory", on a LaRouche site, the Executive Intelligence Review. This copying was a direct violation on a ban by the Arbitration Committee on the addition of LaRouche material to articles that are not "closely related" to the LaRouche movement. That HK not only made this banned edit but then went on to defended it by attacking the editors who tried to remove it is evidence of a problem which is currently being addressed (again) by the Arbitration Committee. Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche Part Deux. -Willmcw 22:05, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Are you saying that the quote is not really from O'Malley? If it is a fabricated quote, that would be bad. On the other hand, if it is a genuine quote, does it really matter if it appeared in some other publication? --172.191.147.67 13:16, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem is that the user plagiarized material, then edit-warred over its inclusion. He did this on a number of other articles as well. It is never correct to copy material without attribution; doing is an "intellectual crime". And as is pointed out below, LaRouche sources are not trustworthy. -Will Beback 21:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Everything from LaRouche sources must be assumed to be false unless independely verified. Adam 16:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Are you the same bloke that got into trouble over the biographies of Australian MPs? --172.192.95.235 17:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

reverted pub image
I thought it would be good to show a modern reference to him. Isn't the pub the reason most Canberrans have heard of him? (it is for me) Cfitzart 14:12, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Some Canberrans did of course acquire a substantial amount of knowledge about their city before the pub was opened and/or before they became aware of any pubs in Canberra. Others would have learned of his name through the linkages with the suburb - a high profile suburb as far as house prices go with the median non-unit price in excess of $1 million.  When I was young there was a certain amount of comment about the suburb name because of its Irish ring and because O'Malley was seen as somewhat of a scoundrel or as per the title of one of his biographies, an American bounder.
 * Because he paid a significant role in Canberra, some of us had heard of him anyway without the reminders, just as we have heard of Menzies who is not remembered on any building or through suburb or street name in Canberra.
 * The article already references the joke about the pub's name given that thanks to O'Malley Canberra was dry until 1928. There do in fact seem to be more than enough images to go on with for the moment.  Perhaps the picture could liven up the Civic page.--A  Y  Arktos   (Talk) 19:20, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Dubious statements
The article says "It is unlikely that "King O'Malley" was his real name" without any real basis. If his mother's maiden name was Mary King, it is in fact quite likely that "King" was a given name. It might not have been the only one, of course. One obvious possibility was that he was a William Jr. who when by his second given name.

It also claims "information concerning his background is suspect as neither his name nor those of his parents occur in the United States Census at any time prior to his emigration."

It is extremely rare to see such a ludicrous claim that someone does not appear in a census. Sure, you might not find the exact spelling "O'Malley, King" in some transcribed index of the censuses, but that doesn't mean he doesn't appear in the census, and it doesn't even mean that couldn't actually appear in the census with that exact name. Furthermore, there are not all-person indexes of most of the censuses. Gene Nygaard 01:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Gene, Arthur Hoyle spends his first chapter of "King O'Malley - the American Bounder" examining his name and birthplace. I think the basis for the claim that he made up his name is well made in the Hoyle book.  Thus I will remove your first dubious alert.  But I have no view on the census claim. Maustrauser 01:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe a direct quote from the book to that effect, then. It certainly is plausible to me that "King" could have been a given name, but I haven't read the book.  Gene Nygaard 02:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It could easily be something like this in the 1880 census, a William and Mary with a William Jr. the right age. Gene Nygaard 02:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC) Name  	Relation  	Marital Status  	Gender  	Race  	Age  	Birthplace  	Occupation 	Father's Birthplace	Mother's Birthplace William O MALIE 	 Self  	 M  	 Male  	 W  	 68  	 IRE  	 Laborer  	 IRE  	 IRE Mary O MALIE 	 Wife  	   	 Female  	 W  	 47  	 IRE  	   	 IRE  	 IRE William O MALIE 	 Son  	 S  	 Male  	 W  	 21  	 NY  	 Laborer  	 IRE  	 IRE Edward O MALIE 	 Son  	 S  	 Male  	 W  	 19  	 NY  	 Barber  	 IRE  	 IRE John O MALIE 	 Son  	   	 Male  	 W  	 17  	 NY  	 Laborer  	 IRE  	 IRE Thomas O MALIE 	 Son  	   	 Male  	 W  	 16  	 NY  	 Laborer  	 IRE  	 IRE George O MALIE 	 Son  	   	 Male  	 W  	 15  	 NY  	   	 IRE  	 IRE Elisebeth O MALIE 	 Dau  	 S  	 Female  	 W  	 13  	 NY  	   	 IRE  	 IRE Alice O MALIE 	 Dau  	 S  	 Female  	 W  	 10  	 NY  	   	 IRE  	 IRE Walter O MALIE 	 Son  	 S  	 Male  	 W  	 8  	 NY  	   	 IRE  	 IRE Anna O MALIE 	 Dau  	 S  	 Female  	 W  	 2  	 NY  	   	 IRE  	 IRE

Source Information: Census Place 	Medina, Orleans, New York Family History Library Film 	1254912 NA Film Number 	T9-0912 Page Number 	298B


 * Removed dubious sentences as unsourced and original research. – S. Rich (talk) 21:49, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Rewrite needed
The artical has much important information missing such as his life in Texas and there is also incorrect or missing names and out of sequence history. It even got the name of a state wrong.

I will do a rewrite as soon as I can. I will be using a University textbook as a source so will only be able to name the book in references. Wayne 04:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Added the book and edited up to arrival in Gawler. Reading it after saving I can see why it was not in the original, it sounds crazy. But history is history and it is documented. Will look at doing more later. Wayne 15:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

"Labour" vs. "Labor"
See here for a recent dialogue about the reason why the spelling changes from "Labour" to "Labor" mid-way through the article. -- JackofOz 00:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * How about a footnote at the first occurrence of the spelling change&mdash;as I have now added to the article. It's only a suggestion, so please feel free to revert if you don't like it.
 * &mdash;David Wilson (talk · cont) 14:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems most sensible. Gillyweed 20:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Works for me. --  JackofOz 23:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Year of birth: 1854 or 1858?
The Parliament's official record of members chooses 4 July 1858, as does the Australian Dictionary of Biography's article. The latter says that date was "on his own testimony", but it's clear he stated different dates and different years at different times, so his own testimony is worth nothing much.

We should at least note that sources differ as to whether he was born in 1854 or 1858. The most honest sources are not categorical about either date, and neither should WP be.--  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:36, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

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Birthplace
Clearly it is undefined specifically where O'Malley was born. It is not in question that it was in North America. However, whether it was in Quebec, Province of Canada; Kansas Territory, United States; or somewhere else is still to be known.

In some American media outlets, O'Malley claimed that he missed the American Presidency by 30 feet (another one states 500 feet), implying that he was born in the Canada, 30, or 500, feet from the United States border.

O'Malley can certainly may have a claim to be both American and Canadian, whilst being a British subject, at least while he was an MP in Australia:
 * Born in Canada (British territory), raised in the United States, before coming to Australia in adulthood.
 * Born and raised in the United States (Independent territory), claiming to have been born in Canada, before coming to Australia in adulthood.

That O'Malley would pursue a political career in Australia and not the United States, if having no legitimacy to a position in the former, appears to be a peculiar count.


 * User:MarioBayo academic biographies (refer the Arthur Hoyle and Rowan Henderson sources used in the article) state that O'Malley's claims of Canadian birth were false. It is not appropriate to accept his claims at face value when they have been disproven. Ditto for his date of birth. All of this is already covered in detail in the article. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 15:04, 18 December 2021 (UTC)