Talk:King Princess

Pronouns
Which pronouns does King Princess prefer? She? They? -ErinHowarth (talk) 21:33, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The them.us interview uses she/her. Since they're a queer publication interviewing her about being genderqueer, she/her seems to be the strongest candidate, unless there's a source that definitely says what Mikaela prefers (I haven't checked in a while, so there might be one!). --Prosperosity (talk) 04:14, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Can confirm. I went to class with Mikaela, who is fine with (she/her) pronouns. 100.12.186.112 (talk) 19:49, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * An anonymous editor (whom I'm going to invite to chip in here) has just changed the article to use they/them. Is there any more up-to-date source that suggests that the article subject prefers non-gendered pronouns?  I couldn't see one.  If not then I think that the article should be changed back again.  Thanks, Wham2001 (talk) 18:09, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * All recent articles I've seen use she/her, so unless they provide a good source I'll revert it. --Prosperosity (talk) 23:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Since there were some more edits to this a few hours ago, I looked, but it continues to be the case that all the sources I can find say she/her, e.g. this from earlier this month. I wonder where the idea that King Princess uses they/them pronouns is coming from... -sche (talk) 00:03, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

I updated the article as I believe their pronouns have changed. There is a more recent (2022) article from Rolling Stone where she stated that any pronouns work.  dizzy flamingo  (talk) 01:23, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * She was obviously joking. She doesn't use 'it' or 'xenu' as pronouns. No one does. I don't think it's reasonable to change the pronouns on this page on the basis of that statement. Lucy tesla489 (talk) 00:59, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
 * For the record, there are people who use it/its. The appendage of "Xenu" in the quote is in a joking tone, but its function within the sentence is not to discount everything said before it, but to be hyperbolic and indicate that they use "any/all" (as it's commonly annotated).  Also worth noting that when listing out pronouns they are fine with, they begin with "He", not "She", and quotes currently in the article indicate they feel like a woman less than 50% of the time. Dfsghjkgfhdg (talk) 01:41, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

No source for "they/them" pronouns
Where is the source showing that King Princess identifies using "they/them" pronouns and/or prefers it? Nothing is sourced in the article, and the most recent reliable sources I could find all refer to her using "she/her". If a source cannot be provided, I will revert to "she/her".—  Crumpled Fire  • contribs • 21:19, 19 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I similarly can't find anything clear that King Princess uses they/them. None of the official social profiles have pronouns listed, and official bios all seem to use she/her. As recently as this week, Rolling Stone used she/her. The TikTok referenced in the article may be this one from November 20, but if King Princess now uses they/them, I would have expected to see it in social media profiles, official bios, and press. MOS:GENDERBIO says to prioritize latest expressed gender, and the latest one in reliable sources is still she/her. Politanvm talk 21:40, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Here is an updated source: Rolling Stone  dizzy flamingo  (talk) 01:24, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Sapphoslefttit looping you into this discussion since I noticed you changed some pronouns in the article  dizzy flamingo  (talk) 01:26, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The article you're providing uses she/her pronouns when referring to her and she didn't say she uses they/them pronouns in that article. She said she hasn't been offended by any particular pronoun but that doesn't mean she uses they/them pronouns. Lucy tesla489 (talk) 00:44, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Relationship
I really don't think that this Cosmo article is a good enough reference to include the relationship in the article. The Wikipedia policy on writing about living people instructs us to Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources, and also to Avoid repeating gossip. The article is entirely gossip – if you read it carefully the writer has no direct evidence for the existence of a relationship – and Cosmopolitan is not a particularly reliable source. I think that we need something better to justify inclusion. Wham2001 (talk) 20:27, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

This is the genderqueer quote
What I love about the time we are living in now is that you can express gender queerness, that you’re gay, that you’re a lesbian, a girl dating girls. Because I am a girl who dates girls and I have been for a long time.

She never said she was genderqueer. She was talking about going against gender norms.

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/a27721655/king-princess-lesbian-gay/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by LoganBlade (talk • contribs) 20:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

I have changed

"Straus is genderqueer and gay.[22][23][24] From early 2018 to late 2018, Straus dated actress Amandla Stenberg. Since early 2019, Straus has been dating Quinn Whitney Wilson, the creative director of musician Lizzo.[25]"

to

"Straus is gay.[22][23][24] From early 2018 to late 2018, Straus dated actress Amandla Stenberg. Since early 2019, Straus has been dating Quinn Whitney Wilson, the creative director of musician Lizzo.[25] She has said in an interview to Cosmopolitan "What I love about the time we are living in now is that you can express gender queerness."

She never said she identified as genderqueer. Best to leave the quote and let people interpret it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LoganBlade (talk • contribs) 20:49, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Also

Policy: Unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them.[d] Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source. Do not analyze, evaluate, interpret, or synthesize material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so. Do not base an entire article on primary sources, and be cautious about basing large passages on them. Do not add unsourced material from your personal experience, because that would make Wikipedia a primary source of that material. Use extra caution when handling primary sources about living people; see WP:Biographies of living persons § Avoid misuse of primary sources, which is policy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LoganBlade (talk • contribs) 20:51, 13 August 2020 (UTC)


 * There are several sources more recent than the Cosmopolitan article that make it clear she identifies as genderqueer. I don't think they're all cited already, but I think they should be added as sources, and we can confidently state with both secondary sources and self-identification that she identifies as genderqueer.
 * https://www.wmagazine.com/story/pop-king-princess/: "For those who ask, Straus describes herself as genderqueer, but even that open-ended label can seem a bit limiting. “I like being a woman sometimes,” she says. “I would say 49 percent of the time I love my titties. But I’m not fully a woman. I’m somebody who falls center on the gender spectrum, and it changes day to day. It’s just not in me to decide.”"
 * http://www.mtv.com/news/3144454/king-princess-cheap-queen-queer-pop/: "Although she identifies as a genderqueer lesbian, King Princess doesn't necessarily want her music to be placed in the "queer pop" box."
 * https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/09/king-princess-is-pop-music-newest-crown-jewel
 * https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/23/arts/music/king-princess-cheap-queen-review.html
 * https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2019-10-30/king-princess-genderqueer-cheap-queen
 * https://www.them.us/story/king-princess-make-my-bed - this one is already cited in the article.
 * POLITANVM talk 21:11, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Alright, it seems that the direct quote those sources point back to is this one from W Magazine "I’m somebody who falls center on the gender spectrum, and it changes day to day. It’s just not in me to decide.”

I say we include this quote with respect to her gender and use W Magazine as the source. Thanks, (talk) 21:35, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks LoganBlade, I've re-added that she identifies as genderqueer and added the W Magazine quote you suggested to expand on her self-identification. I primarily cited the W Magazine, but have added the others throughout since they're more recent. I've also re-added the genderqueer and non-binary categories since we now have a consensus among multiple reliable sources that she's genderqueer. Let me know if you notice any issues with the edit. Thank you! POLITANVM talk 23:01, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Thanks for sorting it out Thanks, (talk) 04:08, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

"Miss King" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Miss King. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 30 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,Rosguill talk 17:31, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Bias and tone
I think a lot of the article reads way too congratulatory of Princess. And the way it talks about criticism makes it seem like her defense is wikipedias official stance 77.99.126.231 (talk) 01:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Agreed. MuseumHours (talk) 00:32, 22 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I also agree. I just went in and tried to clean up the public image section while still leaving the relevant, encyclopedic information. Would welcome any advice/opinions others have. Apathyash (talk) 03:07, 24 May 2022 (UTC)