Talk:King of the Hill/Archive 2

Not Tibetan Buddhists
The show showed that Kahn worshipped the dali lama, but laotians are adherents to theravada buddhsim. Theravada are a diffrent sect and do not believe in the Dali Lama. Please add this to the error section. CanCanDuo 23:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It would fit better if they were Theravada, but in one episode they take in some lamas and discuss who'd be the reincarnation of one. The process of finding one is like Tibetan Buddhism although the Dalai Lama is never specifically mentioned. I'm not sure he's mentioned in the entire series to be honest. Still any kind of lamaism might not fit Laotians, but despite that I think they handled Buddhism in a respectful way. Many shows just sort of make Buddhism a kind of Hollywood fad, but they treated more as the legitimate and ancient religion it actually is. I liked that, even if I'm Catholic. Also, judging by Kahn's mother, they might be like a lot of Buddhists in that they apparently have some pre-Buddhist folk traditions about spirits.--T. Anthony 08:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean 'worshipped' the Dalai Lama? I'd be happy to look back at a particular ep. if you have the #, but I don't think respecting/admiring or acknowledging the Dalai Lama in itself precludes any specific sect.. I think the show has done a more than decent job of representing Buddhism from what I've seen. TTTina 19:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I only think Kahn worships whatever Ted Wasanasong worships just to get into the Nine River's Country Club. Any fan of the show should easily know what this is, but the NRCC is an All-Laotian country club and Ted is a member with a lot of pull. Just my two cents. Havoc1310 (talk) 02:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

International Versions
The Quebecois version of the show, "Henri Pis Sa Gang", is not transplanted to Quebec. http://www.ledetour.ca/shows/shows.php?showName=kingOfTheHill

The text notes that the show is about a typical middle-class family from Texas. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.107.35.75 (talk) 22:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

Racial slur in King of the Hill article
How did a huge mistake get into the Wilkipedia "King of the Hill" article? Who is responsible for checking what goes into the articles, and if not why haden't SOMEBODY said something about this by now. In the fourth paragraph, in capital letters, is the word "NIGGER". This needs to be rectified immediately! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.130.156.189 (talk) 06:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Sorry, the vandalism has been removed. It was added just a few hours ago, so it's understandable that nobody has noticed it until now. You could have even removed it yourself. :: ZJH (T C E) 06:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Peggy Hill
The "Peggy Hill" section in the main "King of the Hill" article says that Peggy can't speak Spanish. This is not true, she can speak the language, even if she mispronnounces some words. She has spoken Spanish on several occasions. In one episode, she even got a job answering phones in Spanish for Alamo beer. I still don't like her arrogance and egotism, but that's not the point. According to some characters other than Peggy, she can speak Spanish fluently. Also, it looks like the "Peggy Hill" article doesn't even mention her speaking Spanish.

Mathew Williams 06:14, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * A large portion of the humor relating to Peggy Hill is her attempt to speak Spanish. She always fails miserably, though - in one episode, she is on trial in Mexico, and her butchering of the language proves to the judge that her understanding is sufficiently poor to prove her ignorance - and hence, innocence. The fact is, she speaks as much Spanish as one would ordering dinner at Taco Bell. --Milton

Why would Alamo Beer hire her if her Spanish is so terrible? One employee said that she was fluent. I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think some episodes contradict each other. --Mathew Williams 10:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * They kind of seem to vary it a little. Although I think the Alamo people might have just been impressed, on the hotline, because her Spanish was better than normal for someone in a mostly white suburb. (They would've known where she was calling from I think) In the early seasons I got the sense that her Spanish was bad in the way you might expect for a substitute Spanish teacher in a small-town with few Spanish language speakers. In other words she could speak enough to teach kids a few phrases, and maybe even to get by in basic conversations, but spoke it in a highly accented and limited way. The Lupe/trial episode made her out to be totally ignorant, which was a bit poorer at it than I'd thought she was. (Although it was funny)--T. Anthony 11:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Peggy definitely does not speak Spanish, even though she thinks so. Just one of her many delusions of perfection. Hank: "Well, buenos dias then!" - Peggy: "Oh hahaha hehe, you just said "my great aunt, Hank!". Or words to that effect. Kar98 (talk) 02:08, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Texan Politicians
I've been searching for a credible source to document a very distinct feeling I get from watching the show--many of the characters are drawn and voiced to resemble famous Texan politicians.


 * George Bush, Sr. -- Dale Gribble
 * Lyndon Johnson -- Hank Hill
 * Cotton Hill -- Ross Perot
 * Tilly Mae Hill -- Ann Richards

But my impression would be considered original research. Has anyone seen this from a verifiable source?

SonPraises (talk) (contributions) 06:27, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that's a bit of a stretch. Dale was specifically drawn to resemble Robert Patrick, and his voice changes throughout the series. Hank Hill looks (and sounds) like Mr. Anderson from Beavis and Butthead. Cotton I don't know about, and Tilly Mae Hill, I think, is simply supposed to be a good counter to Cotton. --Milton 02:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of Trivia Section
It doesn't need one now, it never needed one in the past, and now it doesn't have one. Every element of the trivia section has either been a) incorporated into the main article, b) incorporated into a character's article, or c) wasn't trivia to start with. If anyone disagrees, please refrain from adding it back in until it has been discussed here. I will justify every change. --Milton 02:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * it seems trivial to have an inside joke section with two facts that don't seem to have a real basis in the show. if no one opposes within the next few days, i will remove. 65.67.212.225 14:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I second the motion! --Milton 19:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks better already. --Milton 20:05, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Confusion on town KOTH's Arlen is based off of
I'm not claiming to know which IS right... but on Mike Judge's wikipage neither Garland or Temple, Texas are named as inspiration for the show. However, at the same time the Garland, Texas page claims inspiriation, and Temple merely suggest that some viewers think Temple influences the show.

My point is, nowhere on those 3 wikipages or on THIS one is documentation given for the claim that Temple, Texas is the inspiration/origin of KOTH's Arlen.

I just feel like something should be done to correct this... I'm leaving it as-is for someone who edits this page more regularly to act on according to the local consensus. 74.134.228.189 08:05, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Eh, I don't think anyone really knows except Mike Judge himself. Unless Mr. Judge sets the record straight, all of it is original research. I think it should all be removed. --Milton 20:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it is possible that the town of arlen is not based off of anything, and that particular towns, zip codes, landmarks etc. are used when they are needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onopearls (talk • contribs)
 * I agree. More reasons to delete it. --Milton 20:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * if no one disagree's within the next dat or so, i think that the arlen portion of the page should be either removed, or cut significantly. Onopearls 20:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I tried to cut it down some, please tell me what you think. it is still way too long, as is the politics part. any suggestions anyone? Onopearls 20:43, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That looks better. I think it could still do with some more editing, but that's a good start. --Milton 20:47, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

My guess is that Arlington is more likely then Garland. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2akedlu&s=5 But then they did put Denton in the wrong spot so who knows. And for those unfamiliar with North Texas, Arlington is west of Dallas and to go north one would take I-35W. If you lived in Garland you would take I-35E. --173.74.55.158 (talk) 04:08, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I seem to remember seeing Mike Judge in an interview saying that it was based on Garland. I think it was the local news in Dallas. Of course, I can't cite what I saw, so I guess it doesn't matter. Belasted (talk) 04:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Luanne's Name
Lucky's Last name should be added, and Luanne's Name altered to show it since they are now married. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yami Takashi (talk • contribs)


 * I've changed her name in the main article, and it has been changed in her article. However, naming conventions dictate that the Luanne article stay the same name and not be moved. --Milton 19:09, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * i did add Lucky to the list of family members. hopefully that is all right. feel free to remove it. i also catergorized the characters page, because it semmed slightly jumbled. if there are mistakes, or if it wasn't done correctly, please undo my edit. thanks, Onopearls 20:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Inside Jokes section
Should be incorporated elsewhere and removed. Two jokes hardly deserve their own section. The first one borders on a WP:NOR violation, and the second one is mentioned in the Hank Hill article, I think - if not, it should be- and that will be sufficient. The page is already horrible bloated and grotesque, like a. --Milton 01:55, 1 June 2007 (UTC) I like the hut example :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.223.240 (talk) 22:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Trimmed Character List
Everything I deleted was either redundant, not important (only happening in one episode), not related to the character, mentioned dominantly in the character's main article, and so on. If anyone disagrees, please discuss it here. The page is still too long. --Milton 04:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm currently going through and shortening the character bios by restricting comment to recurring/important themes. Everything I've deleted may be found in the character's individual article. --Milton 07:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Changes
Something still needs to be done about that infernally long Arlen debate section. Maybe turning it into a list, something like that? Massive, unformatted blocks of text don't work well.
 * Zip codes point to Austin, Dallas, or Houston
 * Phone numbers point to etc etc

Also, the long section about themes and such smacks of original research. I'm gonna delete it in a few days if references don't get put in, per WP:NOR --Milton 04:49, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm also gonna trim out the continuity error section, the majority of it is pointless. --Milton 20:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Already did. I will defend every deletion if anyone wants me to. Basically, though, I deleted things that either weren't continuity errors to begin with, things which admit that they may not be, and things that fail to assert wherein lie the errors. --Milton 22:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The Texas Culture section also needs to go. It is completely original research and contains no references. I very much doubt that anyone would be able to be find any for most of it. Possibly parts could be referenced from DVD commentary, if that exists, but unless anyone is able to provide this the section should be deleted.212.140.167.99 10:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. Per WP:CONSENSUS, I'll delete it at the end of one week if that is the informal vote. --Milton 19:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I flagged the Texas culture section as OR and reading like an essay but someone removed the templates without explanation. If removed again hopefully it can be discussed here first. 212.140.167.99 11:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There are several parties that edit this page and remove any material that they disagree with - I have had comments on this page deleted by vandals. I'd recommend replacing the templates, and if they're removed, warning the parties responsible - and leave a message on my talk page. Regards --Milton 00:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I hope that i am not one of the ones you are talking about milton, i only attempt to make the page flow better, or add information i think is valuable to the page. i apologize for any inconvience. i did accidentally remove the template, because i thought the problem had been fixed, but i suppose it hasnt. again, sorry for any inconvience. best wishes, Onopearls 20:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I'm referring to a wave of vandalism a year ago or so. Don't sweat it. --Milton 02:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I appologise for the tone of my edit summary. I hope it didn't sound like a personal attack. My problem with that section, as described above, is that it is full of unverifiable information and is basically a paragraphed list of any thing to do with Texas that appears in any episode. Although much of the content may be true it's very unencyclopedic. I would have tried to improve it myself but without any sources I can't, that's why I added the template in the hope somebody could.212.140.167.99 20:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * i likewise tried to edit that page, but without knowing where the informaiton came from, it is difficult. i would suggest deleting a part or all of the page until a time when the sources can be verified. thanks Onopearls 20:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That sounds good to me. Since edit histories would preserve the information, it could be easily put back when sources are found. General consensus seems to be to delete it, and put it back in when sources are found. I'll do so in a few days unless consensus changes (or I've misunderstood anyone [which can happen] ). --Milton 02:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I say delete it today. it really is just useless words taking up space. Onopearls 20:32, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Merger (and article length)
I suggested that the continuity errors article be merged here, so I wanted to start the discussion. The other article is unsourced, and many of the points there are in this article in a much more concise form. The other list seems just to be some trivia points from certain episodes that could go into a goofs section of the individual episodes. The ones that impact the show the most (the most important I guess) could be on this page. Just my thoughts, anyone agree or whatnot? Phydend 01:17, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The page is already WAY to long and wordy. I'd rather see continuity errors from THIS article merged into the OTHER article, and then have pointless stuff deleted. --Milton 04:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I agree that the page is way too long right now, but the other article needs to be cleaned up and sourced or it'll probably be deleted eventually on the basis of a lack of notability. I still think they should be merged to here, and the non-notable ones to be cut out, many are unneeded and those that aren't sourced should be deleted eventually anyway. On the problem of the length of the article though, a big cut could come in the characters section, the full descriptions of a paragraph each aren't needed, as they are almost the same as sections from each individual article. That section could easily consist of the first paragraph, a list of the main characters, and maybe that last paragraph on the guests who actually did their own voices. (Since I kind of changed the direction of this section I added to the title of it so it would encompass the talk, for anyone's reference). Phydend 05:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That sounds good. Feel free to incorporate material into this article, and feel even freer to delete anything not-sourced, and then feel even freelier to trim the characters section some more (I've done a little). --Milton 05:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

moved two major categories
I Hope no one is offended, but i just relocated arlen, texas and continuity errors to pages of their own. I did this because they were both so long. if you must move them back, please discuss it here first. thanks to all, Onopearls 17:46, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * and i did move continuity errors to the page as suggested above, by Milton and i deleted useless information, i also merged arlen texas with the page already created, and deleted redundant and useless information. Onopearls 17:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was going to work on the merger and never got around to it. This page was definitely too long to merge into it anyway, so good job at cutting down the length. Phydend 18:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Now we just need to parse out unsourced material. --Milton 21:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Comment
I've added a comment in the code of the article that the name "Jeff" should not be added, per WP:NOR. Hopefully that'll help dissuade IP's from adding it. --Milton 20:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Episode pages
The individual episode articles are now being reviewed according to episode notability guidelines. Please contribute to the discussion on the review page. Thanks.  BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  11:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Might I suggest, and I don't know if it has already been done, that someone create a King of the Hill Wikia. The consensus so far, on the handful of episodes that have been reviewed, is leaning toward redirecting. Plots are generally a dime a dozen, but unless all the trivia was merely taken from IMDb, a Wikia project would be a good place to store it, since it isn't bound by the rules of an encyclopedia.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  19:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's outside my area of expertise. How would I go about starting/figuring out how to start one?


 * I don't know exactly, but I think you have to put in a request for a specific Wikia at that website. I would go find some shows that have one and find out what they did to create them.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  23:10, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

continuity errors
since the article is about to be deleted, should we merge the text on that page into the main article? Ono 17:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Note on soup family
should it be noted that connie doesn't really look down on them? posted by unknown on 8-25-0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.154.8 (talk • contribs)

Hank Hill in 2000 presidential elections
In Fictionalized_portrayals_of_George_W._Bush, it is stated that Hank Hill voted or Al Gore in the 2000 presidential elections, while this article claims he voted for Bush - what is correct? 76.200.136.82 05:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The episode never said who Hank voted for. Lighthope 04:52, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

"Souphanousinphones" - NPOV issues
Okay, there are some major issues with this section. I'll try to address them one by one:

"The interaction between the Hills and the Souphanousinphones highlights the culture gap that often ensues in immigrant families - particularly those from Southeast Asia."

Blatantly POV.

"The Souphanousinphones are generally disliked by their neighbors who see them as uppity and snobbish, while the Souphanousinphones look down on the locals as ignorant rednecks."

Although this does accurately describe how the series portrays these characters, this still needs to be referenced. Otherwise, it just sounds like someone else's interpretation of the characters and setting.

"Kahn mockingly refers to the Hills as the "Hillbillies" and is never hesitant to rub his daughter's academic prowess in the faces of the Hills who are less assured about the academic success of Bobby."

Again, needs some kind of reference.

"The interactions between the Souphanousinphones and other Asian American families (like the Wasonasongs) point out that there are divisions within race, just as there are between races."

Indidivual interpretation. This either needs to be referenced or removed.

"Kahn and Minh regard financial success above happiness and personal fulfillment. They frequently try to forge a romantic relationship between their daughter Connie and Chane Wasonasong, in hopes that this alliance will aid their family;"

Again, needs references. More individual interpretation of character movites.

"Kahn's attempt to join the exclusive Asian-dominated Nine Rivers Country Club is another example of this (it can also be seen as an inversion of the country club culture of the early and mid twentieth century, which was often highly elitist and racist)."

Blatantly POV.

"Connie envies the Hills, who are much more tolerant of Bobby's interests and predilections."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hank is often contrarian to Bobby's personal interests. In fact, many episodes revolve around Hank trying to talk Bobby out of doing something "extreme" or "immoral," according to his own traditional values.

"Kahn and Hank, despite their differences, do sometimes get along which is ironic given that Kahn considers Hank his best friend."

POV. Whether or not it is ironic is up to the reader to decide.

"(It is not hard to spot that their names are anagrams of one another.)"

It would be a lot better to simply state this as a trivial fact. (a referenced one) The current wording is closely POV.

"At one point, Hank offers financial support to Kahn when Kahn loses his job and on another occasion, when Hank, Dale, and Kahn were trapped in Mexico, it was Kahn, rather than Dale, who risked his own life to help bring Hank back to the States."

It would help to reference the particular episode where this occurs.68.209.235.149 (talk) 00:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup needed
So far, I’ve done a moderate cleanup of the article (added more sources, cleaned up opening paragraphs) and removed a heap of unoriginal resource. I think more work needs to be done in order to improve the quality, so take a look at The Simpsons page for inspiration on standards that should be taken.Disco dog23 (talk) 12:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Derivated usage
I am surprised to find the TV-series as the main entry here. After all, the game is the original meaning, the TV-series just borrow it name from it- and so does everything else. This means, I think King of the Hill (game) should be King of the Hill, and this TV-series should be King of the Hill (TV-series]... Greswik (talk) 19:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Coven of Artemis question
Does anyone know the name of the song playing when Bobby first enters Ward's basement. I know it's Rush, I just don't know the name of the song... 70.51.65.251 (talk) 06:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Out of memory, wasn't it The Trees from Hemispheres? Haven't seen it in while, I could be way off... 204.69.139.16 (talk) 16:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Buddy Ebsen
Does anyone know who Buddy Ebsen of The Beverly Hillbillies played? his page says "in 1999, make his final acting appearance anywhere, providing a voice for an episode of King of the Hill", who did he provid a voice for? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Underoathfan90 (talk • contribs) 06:16, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Since you are too lazy to look on IMDB, he did the voice of "Chet Elderson" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.181.253.68 (talk) 02:36, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Bt2.PNG
The image Image:Bt2.PNG is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --00:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Peggy Hill's Death in the 13th season
On the main KOTH page, there is a citation-less paragraph that claims that Kathy Najimy has confirmed the death of the Peggy Hill character. I think this should be removed until there is a sufficient source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.184.122.3 (talk) 15:23, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I just deleted it. My official excuse was no citation. It seems silly anyway.--Exer 505 (talk) 16:20, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Hank/Tom Anderson
I removed the mention that Tom Anderson represents Mike Judge's father, and Hank represents Tom, thus Hank represents Judge's dad. Hank might very well represent Mike Judge's father, but that claim is strong enough to deserve a citation. Tom Anderson represented "every middle-aged authority figure" Mike Judge knew while growing up in the New Mexico/Texas area. He mentions this on the documentary on the recent collection of B&B DVDs. -- Jombage (talk) 14:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Characters section
There are descriptions of the Hill characters all over the place. There are lengthy ones here, and on the link to the "list of KOTH characters" article; and plus, the main characters have their own articles already. It's my suggestion that the main characters (The Hills, Luanne, Kahn's family, Dale's family, Bill and Boomhauer) should be wikilinked and listed here with only a brief description of each. All other characters should be listed on the "list of KOTH characters) article and possibly renamed "list of minor KOTH characters". Please discuss, and I'll get to it right away. - Jombage (talk) 13:34, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Billy West
this article lists Billy West as having a recurring role but he is not credited under anything on the character list, nor does it say anything about King Of the Hill on Billy's wiki page. What was his role in the show? If he had recurring roles there should be information on that somewhere on the character list.67.72.98.45 (talk) 03:37, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I looked it up, and he had a 5-episode run in the late 90s. Seeing as many other voice actors appeared far more frequently without mention, I'm removing it. 69.91.158.112 (talk) 20:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Clarity needed - Origins
One paragraph begins with "Recently, King of the Hill joined the ranks of other Fox Network series like Futurama and Family Guy in its placement within a questionable time slot and has faced frequent preemptions from sporting events featuring overtime play and post-game commentary."

When is "recently" and what is the source of this information?