Talk:Kingdom Hearts II/Archive 2

Unnecessary analysis
''Passion (after the battle) is an alternate version of the song to play during the ending credits of the game. This version is longer and slower than the single version, and the song mainly focuses on the vocal lyrics and a solo piano, until the last 2 minutes and 14 seconds, in which the rest of the instruments from the single version come back in. AND Passion (Orchestral), like the (after the battle) version, is very different from the (single version). The song has an extended unique introduction with full orchestra playing. After the intro ends (0:55), the song begins to play the "Passion" main melody, and a bit after the midpoint of the song, reintroduces percussion behind the melody (1:56). Lastly, near the ending (3:20), the orchestra drops the "Passion" melody to play a completely different ending all the way to the song's end. (3:40)'' Totally unnecessary. I propose deletion. --OneTopJob6 00:44, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Remember, there's always the main article if you want to put this stuff. Even THERE, I think it's rather dubious. --OneTopJob6 01:07, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Cast list
Is there someplace where this cast listing can be confirmed/verified? If so, please add some links/sources to the article. —Locke Cole 14:01, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I actually did this yesterday, but I removed the cast section pending sources. I also dislike the wording used (the bit about it being "tentative and subject to change". Unless it's been announced in a press release that it's tentative (which is unlikely, because most companies like to get that kind of stuff chiseled in stone before announcing it; in case things fall apart), we really shouldn't use that wording. It just invites further speculation (as evidenced by some of the edits shortly after it was added again). —Locke Cole 11:42, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
 * http://www.kh2.co.uk/?kh2=Voices There's a source. I don't know about the Japanese names, though I assume a full list will come out shortly since the Japanese version of the game is out already. Geg 16:14, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * 4 VA's have confirmations on their sites. As the the American release date grows closer more will probably list confirmations as well. —KL 00:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You can see the Japanese KHII cast list if you google it. In Japanese, of course.  The Japanese KHII wikipedia page also has the cast list in a different format than the English one.  Lots of Japanese blogs list the cast list as well as this one what I think is a fansite here, but I'm not too sure.  Some of the Japanese names on there can be translated using something usually unreliable like Babelfish.  For example, from the fansite: ROXAS　内山昴輝.  Put 内山 in Babelfish and you get Uchiyama.  It can't translate his first name though, which is Koki.  [NOTE: To see Japanese sites properly in IE, go to View > Encoding > More > Japanese!] &mdash;Mirlen 01:34, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That doesn't really matter, since all the names are written out in English characters during the ending credits. That's where all those names came from. Geg 16:14, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but apparently, original research is not quite&mdash;I guess, welcomed&mdash;in Wikipedia. They want sources, not original research.  The entire Japanese voice cast list was typed by me, as I looked through the ending credits and wrote 'em down :P.  &mdash;Mirlen 23:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Yay! we finally got some updates on the English version. Um, does anyone know the names of the organization XIII? It's a question. Master Vinaki 10:40, 4 February 2006 (EST)
 * Names of the members, you mean? Well, you have the fantastic resource right before you&mdash;clickie!  (The confirmed VAs are also on the page). &mdash;Mirlen 23:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well I know the characters names. I was referring to the names of the people that voice the Order XIII characters, hmm! The english version Master Vinaki 23:59, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Semi-protection?
I'm considering requesting semi-protection for this article (which would leave it editable by most signed in users (except certain newly created accounts) but would not allow anonymous users to contribute. As most of the cruft being added seems to be from anon users, I was wondering if this might be a good idea? (Are there any anons that actually contribute good/verifiable content; are there more "good" anons than "bad" anons?) —Locke Cole 02:00, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see it being an immense problem here as it is on other articles. So, I wouldn't recommend it, nor do I think that the administrators will judge this article deserving of it. --Apostrophe 02:09, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well I'm just concerned with all the reverting that people may be violating WP:3RR. And the article has already been protected in the recent past; semi-protection would likely be easier to get on this (as it's less restrictive). —Locke Cole 02:26, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's a good idea. I'm tired of seeing BS info added by annonymous users. —TimeCruiserMike 8:31, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I just reverted the article to remove the English cast list AGAIN. ~3 hours before, Apocalypse reverted the article to remove said list AGAIN. And what do you know, the edit that I reverted was made 22 minutes after Apocalypse's revert! This is insanity! Semi-protection would be wonderful... >_<;; &#39;Ivy 09:57, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I semi protected the article. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 11:37, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * WAIT, I thought the article was semi-protected! What's going on with this recent edit war (English cast list) with anons?! --&#39;Ivan 17:32, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It was unprotected a few days later. I'm all for permanent semi-protection, if that's possible. Geg 17:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Production
I'd like to know how much this game cost to produce, Out of curiosity, This game has many if not hundreds of big stars and reputatable tv actors. This must have cost a bundle. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.161.241.26 (talk &bull; contribs).


 * I will speculate, based on the idea that software is _always_ sold for profit, unless the company is going bankrupt. Amazon.jp sells the game for ￥6,150, although the suggested retail price is ￥7,770. That is between USD 47 and 59 (if USD 1 = ￥130). A similar new game like METAL GEAR SOLID 3 SUBSISTENCE (released on the same week) sells for ￥5,900/￥7,329 . That would be USD 45-56. In other words, they raised the price USD 3 to average production costs, and/or they lowered their profit margin. How much? Who knows. -- ReyBrujo 05:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think he/she's asking how much the game cost to make, not sell... --&#39;Ivan 06:52, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I know. I was just stating that the game isn't much more expensive than any other. If it would not make enough profit, they would have made it more expensive, or not do it at all. -- ReyBrujo 07:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Drives
I added information about the requirements to achieve Final Form to the page. Many players including myself have tried various things to find a more concrete requirement to achieve this form but as of yet, all we know is this.


 * You MUST have Brave, Wisdom, and Master forms. You may have to have them be above a certain level requirement. Mine were all maxed out when I achieved it. But I'm not sure about that.
 * Once the three forms are aquired, the form will sort of randomly activate in place of whatever one of the previous ones is selected. Its extremely fickle and seemingly random. I don't know if there's any other requirement yet. I'll be sure to update this however, if anything else is discovered.

Also...on the requirement to achieve Anti Sora. I didn't want to alter it because I'm not 100% certain of this, but I don't think its activation is based off of driving too much. I tried to drive near a save point, going i and driving and going out and world changing and going back (This makes the guage reset if you can go to the world map before the drive meter runs out. VERY useful for leveling them), and this never happened. On the other hand, one highly possible way to get this to come out is to get hit by a Heartless enemy right at the moment you drive. By doing this, perhaps you accidentally merge with a Heartless instead of a partner and become a sort of Heartless Sora. It would be more pheasable than just having it happen because you drive too much. That, and every time I went Anti Sora I was in the middle of a big scuffle. I tested this once against an enemy with a predictable attack, and I did actually go Anti when it hit me at the moment of merging! Twice in fact. I think really this is the way to do it. Test it out for yourselves if you can. Timing is tricky but its worked every time for me.

Do you guys think I should maybe put this info in? At least as a notable mention?--Kiyosuki 17:03, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * A bit too much overdetail for my liking, for the Final Form. Several people have stated that Anti Form is caused by Driving too much, and you have to be near an enemy. -- ' I can't click that! (Edits!) 17:57, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I think removing all mention of Final Form's other confirmed attributes is going a bit too far. I don't know..I guess Anti form could be triggered by both. But lots of people drive like there's no tomorrow and rarely get it unless they're close to or being hit by a Heartless. In that case, how do we know weither it is based off of how often you drive or not? I still doubt it, it sounds too...premature a conclusion.--Kiyosuki 16:20, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Also the form with Goofy is called Brave Form in the game itself (ブレイヴフォーム）. I have no clue where the Valor Form name came from but this isn't its name, so please no one change it back. Unless its eventually called this in the North American/PAL version Brave is what its called.--Kiyosuki 17:09, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently, "Valor" was the name used in the demo at E3. Soulsteelgray 21:11, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there any actual official material that calls it Valor Form, or is that all just based on a demo that was only played for a few days 7 months ago? Because everything I've seen calls it Brave Form. Geg 20:21, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Since the demo was made by Square, it is offical material, and Valor is the official romanization unless Square says otherwise. Snake712 02:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually it's just by driving too much, whether or not being close to a heartless is not relevant. Zero1328 04:49, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I heard Anti was caused by taking too much damage while you were in a drive form. Master Vinaki 10:54, 4 February 2006 (EST)
 * Yeah, it's from taking too much damage while in Drive. The "Driving too much" thing is an old theory that's since been proven wrong. Geg 00:13, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Anti-Form is cause by getting attacked a certain amount of times in battle. There is a video on Youtube that prooves this. Im sorry i dont have the link to it though. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moon316 (talk &bull; contribs).

The World That Never Was
Could someone get information on this particualar World and put it on its own world's page like the other worlds. That would be appreciated. Lionheart Omega 22:25, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Is this world the city from Deep Dive?
 * Yes, the city shown in Deep Dive is The World That Never Was. Soulsteelgray 23:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Look at this, I don't know who put it there. (Sora's Character Article) Specifically, it says "Eventually, Sora with the help of the Twilight Town kids (three friends of Roxas), managed to find the route of the "World that Never Was": the World of Kingdom Hearts itself." Well?--&#39;Ivan 18:39, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Summons
All this Summon information just added doesn't describe all types of combo attacks, and implies that each summon only has one, but if more information is added, I think it will seem too much like an instruction manual. Add or revert? Zero1328 11:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

English-language version of Passion: "Sanctuary"
I figured I'd source this before my edits got reverted. Soulsteelgray 01:05, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Is Namine a Nobody? The Nobody of Kairi?
Is it true?


 * Wikipedia is not a bulletin board or chatroom. Questions like these belong in the GameFAQs message boards.  Thanks. --&#39;Ivan 03:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * YEs she is the only difference between her and roxas-sora and ansem-xenmas is that she doesnt have an x in her name &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.48.146.167 (talk &bull; contribs).

Atlantica summon
Whatever happened to that Atlantica summon, anyhow? It's mentioned in the Trivia section, but the Summons section says there are only 4 (Chicken Little, Peter Pan, Stitch, and the Genie). --&#39;Ivan 15:40, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Wha? It's nowhere in the trivia section, and there are only four summons. Period. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 20:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oof! I'm sorry, I meant MUSIC section. Here, I'll quote it:
 * "Certain levels of gameplay are based on music and button coordination, such as Atlantica and the Stitch summon." --&#39;Ivan 02:14, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It meant the The Little Mermaid world. I've clarified it. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 02:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Mmmm...I could argue that the Stitch summon doesn't really rely on music accuracy to get the job done like the Mermaid stage. I just sorta..press the buttons at random and get usually the same effect. Its cosmetic..but for the sake of consistency I won't really edit that.--Kiyosuki 08:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The Mysterious Tower
Where is the tower where Sora meets Yen Sid and the fairies? In Twilight Town? Or somewhere else?
 * It's in Twilight Town. Geg 19:20, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Release Dates
Who wrote up those release dates? I've looked everywhere and I cannot find any sources or the name of the person who wrote them up. Could somebody please tell me what's going on? Dark Axios 20:56, 30 January 2006 (EST)
 * The Release dates is constantly changed to some date in March by anonymous users, who do not provide sources. I think we should get the admins to semi-protect the info box section if they can. I think Apostrophe is ready to explode if we don't :P.  In which, I can't blame him for. &mdash;Mirlen 23:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't feel this is significant enough to bother the admins or even attract their attention. It's a small part of the article that is easily reversible; we can deal (even if I show the opposite). '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 00:13, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, if you say so :-). I see that the admins are very reluctant to semi-protect articles.  Well, you know what they say: Easier said than done. It could be done and easily dealt with, yes, but more stressful to deal, certainly.  I mean, how many times did you and the rest have to revert this article because of the release date :P :D? &mdash; Mirlen 01:30, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Whatever. I changed the American release to 30 March, and I provided sources aswell. Why do people have to keep reversing the changes? Master Vinaki 18:15, 2 February 2006 (EST)
 * Because it's hard to find a real confirmation on the date, retailers and game sites often make estimated dates, and speculation can't go in Wikipedia. As far as I know, the date is Spring 2006, not March or something. Zero1328 10:01, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Just adding on to what Zero said...reliable sources do not include stores' websites, like Amazon or Wal-Mart, etc. They too, like game sites, make estimated dates. &mdash;Mirlen 23:48, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, OK. It's just that I've seen the same date all over the place. Ok then, shall we wait until Square-Enix gives out a release date? Master Vinaki 18:04, 2 February 2006 (EST)
 * Yup :-). We want 100% reliable, real information of Wikipedia.  &mdash;Mirlen 22:20, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I love the release date-related edit Apostrophe did. ;P --&#39;Ivan 00:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ditto *laughs* &mdash;Mirlen 03:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Has Apostrophe calmed down yet? He was going crazy when the release dates kept going back and forth. Master Vinaki 00:04, 5 February 2006 (EST)

Regarding the "EMG Article" and its validity
Okay, like I said in the history page, the article is almost definitely fake. It can't be said with 100% certainty since the only actual written proof has been erased. But there's a long line of evidence that can help point us in the right direction.

This all took place on the Kingdom Hearts Insider forums. The member KL there is the one who originally started the Siru rumor a while back before Roxas's name was confirmed. First, look in this thread here: http://forums.khinsider.com/showthread.php?t=41940 That's where I (I use the name Madness there) posted the info I found here. Take a look at the 5th page: http://forums.khinsider.com/showthread.php?t=41940&page=5 On it, you see a couple of posts by KL. Originally, he admitted to writing the whole article himself in those posts. You can tell by my reaction and the reaction of others after it. The two posts have been changed to something else now, but after his second post, I quote his original second one, which is different from the post you should see, which is proof that he did indeed edit his posts. So now we have 2 possibilities: One is that KL did indeed write the article and submit it to Findarticles.com himself. The other is that he was lying just to confuse everyone. It's definitely one of those. I PMed him questioning him about it and even asked him about it in a chat room later, and he ignored me both times, meaning he's definitely hiding something. Also, there's his post in this thread, which was made over an hour before his posts in the previous thread: http://forums.khinsider.com/showthread.php?t=41943 ">_> You know you can submit stuff and say it came from a place but in fact ur lying right?"

Basically, that's it. Whether or not the article turns out to be real or not, it's now of questionable origin. KL's claim, coupled with the fact that the issue the article is supposed to appear in won't even be released until over a week from now, is the reason for this. Even if he doesn't admit to writing it or to lying from now until that time, we'll find out if the article is real or not once the actual issue is released. Until then, the cast list needs to remain unchanged unless another credible source confirms it. Geg 16:54, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

WAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I type too slow. I would have read this and reverted my edit already if I wasn't editing the article WHILE the Talk page was being updated. My sincerest apologies. --&#39;Ivan 17:30, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Grr...if it turns out to be fake and something KL made up AGAIN, I will personally...well, thanks for the info, Geg. &mdash;Mirlen 19:18, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 'Twould suck if he were right, but I doubt it. XD --&#39;Ivan 20:58, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. &mdash;Mirlen 21:12, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You would personally do what? KL 21:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Does this count as a credible sourse? Pata Hikari
 * That is the source we are talking about, it is not credible. We need to find a secondary source to confirm it, but I'm pretty sure we all agree that it's fake. Zero1328 04:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You'll probably have to wait until the magazine is released to judge it's credibility. Until then, no speculation on the cast list, unless you can find a source to prove it's the truth sooner. Master Vinaki 20:00, 5 February 2006 (EST)
 * I guess no one bothered to look at this
 * 19 other articles from the same issue. Yah I doubt that kid "Wrote" those as well. Jeez whatever happened to common sense. This article is more then likely legit. No idea why some douche face would want to act like he wrote it. Freaking kids. Matt &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.219.29.135 (talk &bull; contribs).
 * When was this announced Fake? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moon316 (talk &bull; contribs).
 * It was never announced fake. Someone just decided to run off their mouth and say they supposedly "wrote" the article. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.219.29.135 (talk &bull; contribs).
 * It sounds to me that somebody just wanted to announce it as fake. It looks real to me, and seeing as there are a bunch of other articles from that issue on the site, I think it's pretty safe to assume it's real. Pata Hikari
 * 1. I never said I supposedly "wrote" the article. 2. What to say "I" saw the other articles and decided to write the article and put it with them. I'm not saying I wrote the article I'm just saying you are closed minded people not looking at all the possibilities that make you look like fools. >_> --KL 17:58, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Or the next time you write a note, you could use proper sentence structure so we could understand what you were talking about. Geg 18:01, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * You're not being very clear. "1" says you didn't write it, but "2" says you did. Pick one or the other. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 21:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha and you people actually believed that kid "Wrote" the article wow. He can barely write a complete sentence and speak proper english.Matt

Well if the article is valid then we probably should re-edit the cast list. If you want to? Master Vinaki 13:02, 6 February 2006 (EST)
 * Actually, it's still disputed of whether the article is invalid or not, so no, do not re-edit the cast list. KL is saying two contradicting things, so we have to...wait until we see the scans or some reliable proof. &mdash;Mirlen 02:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding me? You actually believe this kid? OI. Ive said it once I will say it again. The article is more then likely legit. How many times must I bring up the other 19 articles that are up from the same issue.Matt
 * It's still only from the one source, we can't confirm it. It could have been easily added to the site with the "legit" ones to make it look legit. Zero1328 05:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, that's just grasping at straws. Face it, the article is real. Someone wanted to cause trouble, so they announced it's fake.Pata Hikari
 * I'm actually starting to have my doubts about it being fake too. If it was indeed added to the other articles because KL saw them there, that brings up two questions: 1. Why was the Kingdom Hearts article not already up there? and 2. How could he have written it to put it up there that quickly? KL claims it took 9 days to write it, but that's impossible given the articles themselves were only released 3-4 days ago. So yeah, I'm leaning towards it being legit too. Even so, we should probably wait until the issue is released before adding the names to the cast list. I think there's a Wikipedia rule about that somewhere or something. Geg 01:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:V, to be specific. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 01:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was just about to rebuttle with the fact that KHU and Kh-2.net hadn't put it up yet (since their forums had it posted a LONG time ago), but to my surprise, they did :P and considered it official. I trust KH2 and Kh-2.net, even if wikipedia's policy doesn't (although Tomogirl from Kh-2.net says to "feel free to feel skeptic").  However, wikipedia demands a more reliable source than fansites, so wait we must :P. &mdash;Mirlen 01:08, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * http://www.tvguide.com/news/entertainment/
 * Quote: "MANY STARS ARE GAME: Zach Braff (reprising his animated big-screen alter ego, Chicken Little), James Woods (as Hades), Mena Suvari (as Final Fantasy VII's Aerith), Rachael Leigh Cook, Brittany Snow, Jesse McCartney and General Hospital's Steve Burton are some of the many stars lending their voices to the video game Disney's Kingdom Hearts II, in stores March 30."
 * TV guide is supporting the article.Pata Hikari
 * One step ahead of you, Pata Hikari. No worries.  If you look at the current version of the article, we've got the VAs added, along with the source from Yahoo!News. &mdash;Mirlen 02:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Concerning voice actors
There are now confirmed voice actors, according to many sources.

http://kh2.co.uk/?kh2=Voices

There are VAs for Roxas, Namine, Aerith, Tifa, and some others. But these are CONFIRMED, so please stop erasing them from the English Voice Cast. &mdash;MumboJ 9:28, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * READ THE DISCUSSION RIGHT ABOVE. To sum: WP:V, WP:V, WP:V, WP:V, WP:V, WP:V, WP:V, WP:V, and WP:V. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 02:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

New box art
I found a picture of the U.S, English KH 2 cover. You could have a look if you wanted at: http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/kingdomhearts2/index.html?q=Kingdom%20Hearts%202

It's small. When you want to look at it. Master Vinaki 17:23, 7 February 2006 (EST)

Voice Actors Confirmed, Multiple Sources
I have added the confirmed roles, and deleted the 'Tentative' from the title. Any roles without verification were deleted, if you don't like it feel free to revert. This information has been confirmed now, however, so deletion doesn't make much sense.

70.21.21.176 20:16, 7 February 2006 (UTC)Corey

--

To add to this, more outlets are picking up this story. The list of confirming sources include:

http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/va/20060207/113932165100.html

http://www.tvguide.com/news/entertainment (scroll down)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/video_games/brief_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001958186

Good enough confirmation for you guys? Also, they're all promoting a March 30th release, which as I indicated in my above thread, is supported by the fact that a rating has been confirmed (which usually is one of the last steps).

70.21.21.176 21:14, 7 February 2006 (UTC)Corey
 * Nice finds. That definitely constitutes as good enough confirmation, for the voices at least. Geg 22:46, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Lee = DiZ
Whoever put Christopher Lee as Xenmas, without citing an additional source, you must have gotten confused. 1up (aka EGM's website) shows him as DiZ. Fixed.

68.34.1.48 18:51, 8 February 2006 (UTC)Corey

Kanga,Gopher?
Are Kanga and Gopher from Winnie THe Pooh Appearing as they are credited in the Japanese version of the game?