Talk:Kingdom Hearts II/Archive 8

Fair use rationale for Image:KingdomHeartsIICover.jpg
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BetacommandBot 21:03, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

FA Nomination
Just wanted to get an idea about how everyone felt about going for FA with this article. I've been trying to find some Japanese critical response, but have been running into walls again. If someone else can find some more content, we can put it off. What does everyone think, should we just go for it and see if we have enough, or wait and try to find some more? (Guyinblack25 16:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
 * We should just expand Japanese critical reception before I nominate this myself. Greg Jones II 14:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added a hidden message to the top of the plot reminding other users not to add unnecessary information. This should stop many other users in doing so. Greg Jones II 14:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think we have a little bit more than the first KH did and it passed. I'm willing to see how this article would fare for FAC, but want to get opinions from everyone too. Of course if someone can expand it further, go for it, that'll only improve the chance of it passing. Any other thoughts? (Guyinblack25 14:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC))
 * We should add additional context in some parts if we can. I will self-nominate this one myself. Greg Jones II 14:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've now nominated this article for FA status at Featured article candidates/Kingdom Hearts II. Any comments there would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Greg Jones II 22:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, wikilinking needs to be fixed. Greg Jones II 22:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Before it becomes an FA, it will have to be peer reviewed first. Greg Jones II 23:56, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Automated PR
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Davnel03 13:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
 * Per Manual of Style (headings), avoid using special characters (ex: &+{}[]) in headings.
 * This article may need to undergo summary style, where a series of appropriate subpages are used. For example, if the article is United States, than an appropriate subpage would be History of the United States, such that a summary of the subpage exists on the mother article, while the subpage goes into more detail.[?]
 * The script has spotted the following contractions: won't, wasn't, didn't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

Any of these suggestions would be very much appreciated for FA. Thanks. Greg Jones II 12:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Article promoted!
Congrats everyone. The bot will be here shortly to update the article history. Axem Titanium 18:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Congrats as well. I have now requested a peer review for Kingdom Hearts (series) at Peer review/Kingdom Hearts (series)/archive1. Greg Jones II 19:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I guess it isn't a false alarm after all. It's nice to see KH articles be promoted to FA. Ah well, I'll go update the WikiProjects now. DiamondDragon DESU  19:03, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Congrats on work on this art. I am ashamed to say I was not here to see it promoted. Lets get it front page on the aniversery of it's release, shall we? Quatreryukami 18:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't sound like a bad idea. Though truthfully I'd prefer the first game to be on the front page with it's fifth NA anniversary coming up. But I must admit that this is the better written article in the series. Kudos to the copy editors that really made this article shine. (Guyinblack25 talk 21:59, 25 August 2007 (UTC))

Final Mix+: Jan 1st
I heard that Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix + was supposed to come out in the U.S. on Jan 1st 2008. Is this true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.50.107 (talk) 22:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Jan 1st is probably a game retailer's placeholder release date (who the hell would release a game on Jan 1st anyway? There would be no employees to sell it!). Such stores are simply making educated guesses as to approximately when a game is coming out and have no authority on the issue. Axem Titanium 01:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I just checked IGN and GameSpot and they haven't announced anything like that. Sorry, but you may have heard it from a source that is saying that based on wishful thinking. (Guyinblack25 talk 14:27, 31 August 2007 (UTC))


 * Does anyone know if its even coming to America, I mean definite information not an I hope its coming.--Amp99 (talk) 18:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

KH2 Secret Ending
Just a thought but could we include a section about the secret ending in Kingdom Hearts 2? It may not be revelent to the plot but there is a lot of information in the secret ending that may be revelant to a future Kingdom Hearts much the way Kingdom Hearts 1 secret ending connected directly to the second game. 65.124.8.131 15:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Without proper sources and citation, any information we place in the article can be considered as original research, which is not allowed on Wikipedia. We've placed what information we could at Kingdom Hearts (series). (Guyinblack25 talk 15:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC))

I personnly think that we should Poohman0 (talk) 01:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I saw the secret ending and saw the words "Birth by Sleep" in it. Maybe the secret movie is about Birth by Sleep and not Kingdom Hearts 3 as some people wanted to think.

Room mods section
it was deleted, but anyway. i was supposedly trying to say that there might be some connection of this game with Castle Oblivion or the place where they meet or something. can anyone give ideas on what reliable source i can put like google or a site?. are screenshots of any of the mentioned secret rooms be placed? reply. any additional messages can be left on my talk page.Moogle 12 (talk) 06:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I don't remember coming across any mention of room mods when searching for information on the game. It could be most gaming news sites either don't know about it or didn't think it was notable enough to mention. Sometimes just searching the net is the only way to find stuff like that, and there's no guarantee of finding a reliable source. (Guyinblack25 talk 18:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC))

Oh, okay, I just found a video of it on YouTube, thought I might post the link as one of the notes, but anyway. Do you think it's agreeable if I can out this in the Universe of Kingdom Hearts? Thanks in advance.Moogle 12 (talk) 12:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, YouTube is not really considered a reliable source. This is because the content is user created and submitted, with very little monitoring by the site. Maybe check to see if Game Trailers has some video about it that was made and posted by the staff. (Guyinblack25 talk 13:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC))

Found no game trailers to help support this fact. Took all night actually but anyways. Guess it's just a cheat code to make you go in that place. Thank you very much Guyinblack25!!!Moogle 12 (talk) 09:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

World That Never Was wasn't introduced in KH2, but the first one
We could just start exploring it as the last world in the second game.

I had changed it to reflect that it was a backdrop in the "Another Side, Another Story" secret ending movie, yet someone doesn't think that is the case because it is "unsourced".

Needing help in satisfying the masses of actually sourcing a WIDLY known fact (can't believe I'm actually having to stress that. Can't believe I'm actually saying that we have to actually source this). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkpower (talk • contribs) 11:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not notable. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to have to agree with Axem. A piece of information like that isn't too notable. By notable, we mean that it hasn't really been mentioned in published works, like online or printed gaming articles. That and the exclusion of it doesn't really hurt the article or make it any less comprehensive. We not arguing the factual accuracy of it, we're arguing it's importance. If you do happen to find a reliable source for it though, please feel free to add it to Universe of Kingdom Hearts. (Guyinblack25 talk 17:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC))

Lock
I think this page needs to be locked, there has been constant vandalism to this page, what do you guys think about lockin this baby up King Rock Go 'Skins! 01:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sadly, this is actually kind of normal for the KH articles. The vandalism is pretty random and is coming from different IP addresses, so it's not really enough to get the page semi-protected—though it isn't any less pathetic or annoying. We normally wait for the vandals to get bored, and then wait for the next batch in a couple months. This is just one of the sadder and sillier aspects of Wikipedia; people that are simply too bored or empty to do something constructive. (Guyinblack25 talk 14:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC))

Game Cover Caption
The game's cover picture at the top has a mention of 'main characters' below it. In my opinion, all the characters on the cover are main characters. Do we want to mention all of the characters in order from the picture in the caption? I feel it may be too large for just a caption, but main characters are main characters. LocoFish (talk) 04:18, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree it makes sense to include them, but the caption is long enough for an infobox already. As an alternative, I expanded the description at File:Kingdom Hearts II (PS2).jpg, so if they want to know all the characters they can click on the image for more detailed information. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:29, 7 January 2009 (UTC))

Article images
Before we start reverting back and forth, let's discuss this issue. The two image at the heart of this are the gameplay image and the Final Mix+ cover. I'm a bit indifferent about the gameplay image as they both add something to article, but I don't think the Final Mix+ cover should be in as it does little to further the reader's understand of the topic. If the game had its own article, then it would be another story. A screenshot of some of the new elements would be more illustrative to readers. I'll see if I can dig up one as an example. Any thoughts? (Guyinblack25 talk 14:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC))
 * If an English-language image of the Valor form is found, then it can be added to the article. This is English Wikipedia, not Japanese Wikipedia. When you can't even see what the menu options mean (for a non-Japanese speaker), then what is the purpose of having the image? Also, the image has a watermark, and the resolution is way too high. And the box art for Final Mix is unnecessary as it adds nothing to the article. I suggest reading WP:NFCC before reverting further. The Prince (talk) 14:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

The watermark could be easily removed and you can always reduce the resolution (although I think it's fine, since we're looking at small details here.) The point of the image is to display the Forms, which is a new aspect to the game. I think this overrides the fact that it's from the Japanese version. The image of the Sephiroth battle doesn't convey as much new informaton. It's not the normal MP bar, which may confuse readers, the map isn't there, and there's nothing interesting/informative occurring ingame, so there's wasted space.

As for the Final Mix+ cover, I don't think it's that useful. An ingame screenshot showing the new features in Final Mix would be better. I can't take screenshots myself yet (I still don't have an input card for some reason,) but I'll say that the best image I can imagine would be showing Limit Form and the room with the data battles, Garden of Assemblage. There's a whole ton of other things too, but I think those two are the most significant. I'd expect debate if a specific Silhouette battle was used as the image, so this would allow you to just mention it in the caption. Minor things that could be thrown into the image could be Sora's crown, a new weapon, or the fact that the Limit Form's special attacks are actually activated using the shortcut menu. A shot with a mushroom or the Lingering Sentiment might have too much action onscreen to be useful. - Zero1328 Talk? 21:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think the Japanese menu is a bad thing, but I agree the watermark is a strike against it. If a suitable image with a drive form is found, I see no reason not to switch them out.


 * GameKyo has galleries of non-watermarked images we could snag and resize if needed. The KHII ones didn't offer much except one that showed the reaction command. The KHIIFM showed some battles against the data versions of Org XIII members.
 * Kingdom Hearts II image gallery
 * Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix+ gallery
 * (Guyinblack25 talk 22:00, 29 January 2009 (UTC))

It seems that I make up the minority regarding the Final Mix+ pic. I think that as it is a separate game, it should have a picture of the box. But if it doesn't stay, I guess I'll have to let it go. But I agree Zero in that the Valor form pic is much more useful than the Sephiroth pic. Tempest115 (talk) 22:08, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still failing to see how a Japanese-language screenshot is better thatn an English-language screenshot. When readers look up this article, they're expected to see the English version, and I think it's only fair that they're able to see what the different menu options mean. People who don't read Japanese won't have this privilege. The Prince (talk) 22:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The language doesn't matter, or rather, it doesnt mater as much as the fact that a new aspect of the game, in this case Valor Form, is being shown. Tempest115 (talk) 22:31, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with the valor image whatsoever, but I disagree that language doesn't matter. This is the English Wikipedia, and when English-language images exist, they should be prioritised first. The Prince (talk) 22:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with that, at least in a majority of cases. Tempest115 (talk) 22:51, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I never actually said whether it should have the cover or not, only giving an idea for something that would be better. It's a fairly small section so you can only really fit a single image without it being cluttered, and it can't really be expanded much further. An ingame shot showing the actual features would be more valuable than the game cover. We don't have one, so I'm fine with the game cover staying there, since it is technically a separate product. - Zero1328 Talk? 22:47, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I'll just make this clear: You also have to look at the amount of useful information it conveys. This is why I'm suggesting the Valor Form image, and why I removed the Utada image just then. Just because it's a local version, or because it's free, doesn't mean it belongs there. I've already gave you my impressions of both images so I can't add much more without going in a circle. Conversely, the Utada image doesn't add any more value to the article, and can already be seen in Hikaru Utada. - Zero1328 Talk? 22:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Removing the Utada image was a mistake, because ideally, the article should have at least as many free use images as fair use images if possible. Having only fair use images does not comply with WP:NFCC, so fair use images should be kept at a minimum. There is no problem in having an image of Utada in the article as long as a decent caption is provided and it's relevant to the text. Adding free use images to video game articles is common now, and I don't think KHII should be an exception. Saying "it adds nothing to the article" doesn't apply here as it's a free use image, not a fair use image. Here are some examples of articles that have free use images: Final Fantasy X, Super Mario Kart, Sam & Max, and The Simpsons Hit & Run. The Prince (talk) 23:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Prince here. The main reason images like screenshots and game covers are scrutinized so much is because they are non-free images being used in a free encyclopedia. The more relevant information a non-free image can provide, the better the rationale it has for inclusion. While I'll admit that is not the best picture of Utada, it is still a free image and does not need a full rationale for inclusion. And as Prince points out, free images are preferred over non-free images. If we have one available, we should include it in the article. (Guyinblack25 talk 05:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC))
 * I think it's a little silly to include a free image, just because it's free, or because it will "balance out" the non-free images. I've re-read WP:NFCC just to make sure it hasn't changed since I last read it and it hasn't: there is still nothing there that says there must be at least one free image or an equal number of free and non-free images in an article. Adding the image of Utada detracts from the article as a whole by distracting it from its main purpose: to discuss the game. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd say it helps present the game in a more real-world context by showing some of the production crew.
 * I will say this though. At FAC, I've seen plenty of non-free images removed from articles because of lack of relevance. But I've yet to see a free image of a person removed.
 * I've been adding them to other articles myself: Pong and Super Mario Bros. 3. (Guyinblack25 talk 13:22, 30 January 2009 (UTC))
 * I actually have to agree with Tempest115 for the most part here -- free images ARE good, yes, there's no mistake about that, but how does having a picture of the singer have anything to do with the game itself? A picture of her preforming it I could see, or perhaps singing a copy of the soundtrack/single. But a random picture of her unrelated to KH itself? Why? How does that relate to the article more than tangentally? Same thing with the Miyomoto at SMB3. Pictures need to relate to the aritcle, not just be there as a way to have something. I'm all for prettiness, but one shouldn't go past the aesthetic into silliness. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 14:21, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, I think that showing a picture of one of the people who contributed to the production of the game gives readers some more information than just game screenshots. Obviously it's impossible to get a picture of them singing the actual song, or of Miyamoto designing that specific game, so general kinds of photographs work just as well.--ZXCVBNM [ TALK] 17:44, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Melodia, I do not think the image contributes to the article. Just because you have a tangential free use image, doesn't mean you have to use it.  The image becomes the entire focus of the audio section, you could just as easily insert free use images of the voice cast in there, but given the layout of the current article and the other images, I don't think a purely decorative image is needed.  I have similar feelings regarding the Miyamoto image on Super Mario Bros. 3 and images on Pong too. - hahnch e n 18:01, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see how a picture of a person gives any info about the game. You don't need to know what Utada looks like to understand she's the singer. If you simply must know, you can look up her article. On the other hand, box cases and screen shots DO help in understanding of the topic at hand. I mean, why not add a picture of a PS2? Or someone holding a controller and saying they are playing KH2? Of a steel drum because there's a prominant steel drum track on the soundtrack? Because none of them are inherently part of the game itself. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 18:16, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Given that the scope of this discussion has become larger than just this article, I recommend further discussion related to Utada's picture be continued at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games. This will bring in more view points, and prevent the discussion from being fractured.
 * However, discussion about the gameplay images should continue here. (Guyinblack25 talk 22:14, 1 February 2009 (UTC))
 * I was going to mention an image - the censorship image doesn't seem necessary, and it technically counts as four fair use images, doesn't it? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:23, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts European
I was watching clips from the European version of KHII, and I know that the European version came with multiple dubs. You had American English (w/British English text), European Spanish, French, and German. I once inserted this information about this in this article, but it was immediately deleted, and the user claim I had no sources. I couldn't find a list of voice actors, but the German, Spanish, and French version of Wikipedia claim that the game was dubbed in their languages. I need help here, I find it important to know about the European version of Kingdom Hearts. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.179.173.225 (talk) 19:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Content Modification IN KH2 Final Mix+
There's the content modification for Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix+  ?

Alex31081995 (Brazilian Wiki) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.203.112.236 (talk) 23:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

yes the content is there, and you add your name by adding four tildes (~).Haseo445 (talk) 15:35, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Something I Noticed...
In the Birth by Sleep article, it states that the three new characters in it were first introduced in this game. I've played it through to the end (endless stats screen of doom!), and no sign of them. If so, please specify. The article doesn't mention them either.  2J Bäkkvire Maestro  communications accomplishments 14:59, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Moogles
The Moogles are not new to the series, they were included in Kingdom Hearts I as well. Letkhfan (talk) 17:56, 23 May 2012 (UTC)