Talk:Kings of the Sun (band)

Content dispute/COI?

 * I'm neutral in this situation (personally, I have never even heard of this band), but at any rate, a thread was opened at WP:ANI because of supposed bad-faith editing, etc. (more detail is given at the aforementioned link). Now, I'll admit that the version of the article that I reverted to still has its problems, but imo, that version still had less problems than the "current" version. I noticed that no discussion had taken place on this talk page before now about the problems, so I suggest you all do just that right below my comment.  Erpert  blah, blah, blah... 00:02, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * From my side, this [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kings_of_the_Sun_%28band%29&diff=666908929&oldid=665786427 revision] is the most actual. I did delete all disruptive edits by the users who are now blocked and updated & rephrased some facts with added support. It also includes stylistic changes made before by editor Bgwhite and some finished by me. Currentpeak (talk) 22:00, 18 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Jeffrey Hoad contested the page at BLP/N. Offhand I will say that the page needs a lot of work because there's a lot here that is completely unsourced and a lot of the page content is in broken English. Since at least one person is contesting the tone of the page and its claims, I'd err on the side of caution here and remove anything that is not explicitly backed up with a reliable, independent source because of the potential BLP issues. I'm going to go ahead and do this - if anyone can back it up with a RS then it can be re-added. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:03, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Case in point: the article claims the band was formed in 1982, but the Billboard bio claims 1983. Since the article also asserts that one of its band members left in 83, this is pretty confusing. I'm going to remove this claim until it can otherwise be proved that he left in 83 and returned in 84/85. Plus the BB also claims that Spencer left in 86 - and the article claims that he left around 85. More than a little confusing here. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:08, 2 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Just noticed that much of this comes directly word-for-word from the band's website. The website is copyrighted, so I have to assume that the text is also copyrighted. The band's website could back up claims in the article, but again - I'd like to have some sort of secondary source to back these up given that the BB contradicts some of the article's claims. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:11, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It's possible that they might have cut/pasted it from here, but I will note that this article on the band website also contradicts the founding year as 1982. In other words, we would still require sourcing. Also, the phrasing in this article is similar to how some things are written here, so I have to assume that even if the official website did take the material from Wikipedia, that the article still contains potential copyright violations. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:19, 2 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to leave most of the pre-existing sources in the article, but I do have to raise an eyebrow at the source reading "Walsh, Peter. "We Three Kings", 1993". This doesn't really tell us what this is (book? news article?), where it was published, or anything that would really be usable to verify it. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  11:20, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I also can't really find record of the Rich & Famous's first self-titled album. Discogs only has two, as does Allmusic, so I'm going to remove this for the time being. If anyone can find anything for this anywhere other than the official website, that'd be great. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  11:35, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I have some schoolwork to do so I'm going to stop for now. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  11:37, 2 November 2015 (UTC)


 * If you have read ANI case regarding this page thoroughly, you can clearly see the intentions of Jeffrey Hoad. His history on wiki (sock puppetry, vandalism) says what kind of person he is. The revision I previously mentioned was from my point the most up-to-date (at that time). Now, I agree that there is a problem with some sources because some, like for instance the Billboard bio, include errors. The band indeed must have been formed earlier than 1983, because The Young Lions opened for The Angels on their Night Attack Australian tour in early 1982. There is a poster that documents this. And Spencer must have left well before 1986 because there exists a video of The Young Lions (posted on YouTube) with other guitarist and at that time Spencer already joined The Angels and recorded Howling album with them. In fact, there are not many sources on the band around and a lot of was taken from what is available on the internet, like the photos and scans of posters and paper clippings with articles. For instance "We Three Kings" was taken from a scan of the music magazine - the only info that I could identify regarding the article was the heading, author and year. And the first S/T Rich & Famous album indeed exists. I can send you my copy. The problem is, that the R&F albums were released independently by the band, so if someone has not uploaded it to Discogs database then it is not there. Some other things - including the 3 R&F albums and quotes about those releases (including "broken English" as you wrote because those were citations) were taken from the official website but it seems that those articles are taken down right now. I am not sure what to do in cases like this, if I can link those photos/scans of articles etc. directly from the band's official fb account where they are posted (the best source because apparently a lot of fans send them to the band). Currentpeak (talk) 22:28, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It'd be better if we had a direct statement from the band on their website that they launched in 1982. Part of the issue behind this is that they've posted material saying that they launched in 1983, so they're kind of going against what they said themselves. As for the music magazine, we'd need some additional information like the article title, page, and so on - if you have a scan of it that you can send someone then that'd help as well. The main thing with the album though, was that there's just nothing on the Internet that could be found. If they'd had some of this on their website we could work with that, but the material is sort of not really out there. As far as JH goes, I'm aware that he's trying to re-write the band's history to suit himself better - however we do need to be careful about how everything is sourced since he is trying to allege that there are BLP issues. Just as there was little to nothing to back up what he was claiming, we also need to ensure that there's sourcing to back up the claims in the article as well per WP:BLP. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:10, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I have found a link that could be used as a source for that first R&F album. But I will rather get back to you with more stuff done. I will try to make some changes & updates during this weekend. Currentpeak (talk) 19:59, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Not using Billboard
The bio that was used on this article that was credited to Billboard was not by them. It was a mirror of the allmusic bio. That in turn was a rehash of the bio from Ian McFarlane's Encyclopedia. Instead of using a copy of a lazy copy I've gone back to the source that actually did the research. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:34, 20 April 2017 (UTC)