Talk:Kingsland, London

I've created this piece about a vanished area partly for fun, but also because it is may well get referenced in history pieces about the borough. Had already removed it from Hackney's district list, but will now put it back there.

I have pix, will put them up shortly. Wish I had an old map to underline the thesis.

Oh - and the redlink on Mildmay is deliberate. I expect to create that, it is where Newington Green properly is and, though a modest area of Islington, it still lives.

Tarquin Binary 20:39, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * At least you know where it is. No one seems to know about Farringdon any more... Justinc 22:49, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Over here we also have the vanishing district of Cambridge Heath. It was never even clear which borough that was in. Perhaps I'll let it rest in peace. Oh, apart from reviving Mildmay to take in Newington Green, I have a few Islington reorganisation proposals, but will run them by you when I've finished mangling Hackney.


 * The A-Z doesn't have a Farringdon district, but that means nothing, it's not a reliable source except for amusement, its use of district names and their positioning seems whimsical to me. The nearest district to the east of Farringdon they name St Luke's after the parish church, in an area that most people would consider to be the Barbican or maybe even Aldersgate. The problem is partly, I think, that once you get closer to the City, the districts get smaller and smaller (I'm not touching the City). Anyway, Farringdon delimitations look like Hatton Garden (west), Clerkenwell Rd (north), St John St (east) and Charterhouse St (south), but that's just abstract. But if I was working nearby (like at the Guardian, say), yes, I would likely say 'I'm working down in Farringdon'. (I consider the live/work question to be the real acid test as to whether a district is still alive or not.)


 * The A-Z has a curious history, that ought to have an article. As far as I remember the Ordnance Survey wouldnt give out maps, so the founder sent people out to make maps which she kept on pieces of paper. There was an obiyuary a few years back, will try to find it. The Guardian is slightly marginal because although on Farringdon Road it is past Clerkenwell Green, but yes the City is mixed up. Justinc 11:24, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Re: Cattle troughs and drinking fountains, rings a bell, I think that one is still in Vicky Park. I will look next time I'm down there. Funny little bits of 19th-century street/park furniture that I don't think to record, but maybe there's a case for them. Tarquin Binary 01:54, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well I am looking for a nice cattle trough picture, but they are all pretty much the same (although a two storey one with sheep/dog feeding at the bottom might be nice). Most of the fountains are a bit ornamental for my taste, but I have some more Burdett-Coutts stuff. Justinc 11:24, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Will keep my eyes open for targets of opportunity. Agreed on the fountains, maybe that's why I edit them out of my vision. I actually do like the cattle troughs - obsolete infrastructure is always good. Anyway, Mildmay stub added now with a bit of info, and about to categorise, update various lists, and change the gist of the Newington Green piece. Tarquin Binary 11:34, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Anon contrib
This is interesting, but needs integrating into the article so I have moved it here for the moment:

As so often happens 'the waste' became an unofficial meeting place on a Saturday morning for people wishing to sell / swap second-hand items. From the end of WW2 many older men would stand down near the road holding watches ,bikes, radio's etc for sale. My grandad Alf Sanderson from Haggerston was a regular. He was a collector of films and projectors from the silent era and would buy and sell most Saturday mornings. The waste was very much a 'locals' market about 20 / 30 people standing waiting trade their wares. It was easy on a busy Saturday to not realise what was happening by the road. The area of the 'waste' was probably 60 yards at most. At one end an 'apple fritter stall operated next to a sasperella drink stall. The unofficial market extended the other way as far as the old public toilets. By the end of the eighties the older generation had passed on and the market petered out.

Tone of Article
I've tagged this article as not being of appropriate tone for wikipedia, and because it doesn't cite a single source. I find the article itself interesting, but the tone completely inappropriate for an encyclopaedia. I don't really feel I have enough knowledge about Kingsland to boil this article down to keep the facts, cite sources and change the tone (the same goes for nearby Shacklewell, the article for which seems to have similar problems). JamJar 14:58, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not even sure if it shouldn't be merged with Dalston. This is essentially historical Dalston. The waste was an important market from historical times, basically land set aside along the edge of the road as too stony/wasted to grow anything on - Mile End has one too. In the middle ages they often became the site of occasional fairs, and this lead to them becoming semi-official marketplaces. (Would have to look to see if chartered - would be possible explanation of name, but I suspect not). Kingsland waste was much bigger than it is now, the road having expanded across much of it. I'll go away and do some reading, we may be able to do something with this. Kbthompson 09:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I've altered the intro, giving details of the real historical Kingsland. Seemingly not the most important place in the world, but I for one am glad to add it to my store of geographical knowledge and - who knows - maybe events of world-shattering importance did happen there in the local pub??? 'More research needed' as we used to say in university library/bar after a hard days studying and/or drinking...Colin4C 11:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's got to have more going for it than Haggerston! Kbthompson 11:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Dunno, having lived for a while where Dalston sort-of merges into Haggerston, you gradually come to recognise a distinction. I get the impression that a load of these old areas are having something of a name-revival, especially with the influx of people who seem to find the area overly 'cool'. 78.86.18.55 (talk) 12:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've begun to rewrite as 'wiki-prose', expand the historical material and add some refs. Pls feel free to pitch-in. I must say, Fin was in a whimsical mood when he wrote the original text ... Kbthompson (talk) 18:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

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