Talk:Kinoʻoleoliliha

More cleanup
Benjamin Pitman I think is very different - he stayed in Ohio, along way from Hawaii, unless someone has a source that they are related. Also should mention Hoolulu park in Hilo, probably named for her father? Still not clear on ancestry from the confused wording. The Byers site as well as anouni.net say her mother was named Charlotte Halaki Kahepakekapuikaailani Cox (1805–1845), so no idea which source say her mother was Kaloalani-kahikoloa?


 * I got it from this site. I did see Charlotte Halaki Kahepakekapuikaailani Cox's name by I wanted to find a better source than those. So I left out the information of her mother on the article.  This would make Harold Cox, Kinoole's grandfather, but who was this Harold Cox?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:43, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps this Benjamin Pitman also deserves an article. I think he was the first post master on the island, for example. But I could not find any Pitman street. Many Hilo sreets changed from English names to Hawaiian at some time; this was probably one, since there are historic references to it. http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/hawaii-notes/vol5-2d.htm I thought this name was familiar, Pitman built the first Volcano House in 1846! Now what is "a ship chandlery"? ah, link to ship chandler. Not in common use today. W Nowicki (talk) 22:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * He is the same Benjamin Pitman mentioned in the Volcano House article. He and his wife were kind of like "magistrate" (that was the word) of Hilo. But I don't know anything about his life before he came to Hawaii or after he left Hawaii.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:43, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I am not sure if the Kinoole Baptist Church in Hilo was name after the person or the street that it was on. One of the pictures in the external link goes to a picture of the church with something written there. I think its commemorate Kinoole or something. W Nowicki, where did you get the info that she was buried in that church?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:05, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I was reading the grave stone in the picture. But I backed out this claim from the article, since I am dubious of the picture. It says 1855 on it, for example as death date. And from the URL it looks like it might be from the Waiola Church in Lahaina? Anyway, I can put Ben on my list to write about some day if I have time. W Nowicki (talk) 23:17, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I only guess her death to the year he left Hawaii. What site was this that you look at?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

More research: this 1901 letter makes me guess that Pitman street was the original name of Kinoole street, given the location of the post office being talked about. Keep the name in the family, I guess, but use the Hilo-based one instead of the one who went back. I also found another Pitman who married a missionary of Oahu, but that might be a different one. ...
 * Benjamin Pitman's birthplace? I don't really think it state where he was born. They said he was from Salem or Boston.  And the Pitman in Hawaii article states that he was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts but that article can be questionable.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Upon further review, I think it is the same one. That is, I think Kinoole died in 1855, because there is a marriage record of Benjamin marrying Maria Kinney who was born in 1822 and died in 1858. They had a daughter named Maria Kinoole Pitman who maried Fred Mory of Chicago in 1881. It seems the other Pitman children (the ones mentioned here) were considered "honorary" members of the Mission Children's society. They have many reports on google books. I am working on Benjamin's article. W Nowicki (talk) 04:31, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Whose Maria Kinney?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

If you are creating the Benjamin Pitman article you could should mention his 8 page analysis of the Kingdom of Hawaii during the time, "Reminiscences of My Early Life and Sojourn in Hawaii from 1836 to 1861".--KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The page Here which talks about the picture you reference, says the grave site that says "August 18, 1855" is at Waiola Church in Lahaina. So I wonder about the source that said she was buried in Hilo? Does it say which cemetery? W Nowicki (talk) 01:17, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't really know about her burial place but I think she might actually be buried in Hilo instead. The Pitman in Hawaii site is written by someone who has read After fifty years: an appreciation, and a record of a unique incident by Mrs. Almira Pitman, the daughter-in-law of Kinoole but he or she has done a bad job of it.  ex. Libby prison turned into Libya prison.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 08:09, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

To follow up, Maria Kinney was a widow of a missionary, born Maria Louisa Walsworth, see Benjamin Pitman (Hawaii) as you probably have already. From the pic we can say Kinoole has at least a monument at Waiola church. Not sure I agree on using European-style dates. I suggested in the Hawaii style guide to use American style, since that is what the sources use, and especially since the family moved back to the mainland that would seem to make sense. I can look up the names. W Nowicki (talk) 03:24, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

There is now a Hoolulu article, and most sources agree that Kahikoloa was his mother, so it would this person's grandmother. Still not sure if Charlotte Cox was hapa haole or related to "Governor George Cox" which might also make sense. W Nowicki (talk) 00:05, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Surname Act
Kinoole died 5 years prior to the surname act of Aug. 24, 1860 implemented by King Kamehameha IV. Of course she would carry a surname once marrying in a Christian fashion but née, definitely not. You can find a copy of it printed in Ka Hae Hawaii, Sept 5, 1860. The first section addresses married women, to adopt their husband's family name. Kinoole already did that but again, she died 5 years prior. The second section is the norm, children born in wedlock to carry their father's name as a family name. This is where the inconsistent names family names begins. The third section addresses illegitimate children and that they will take their mother's name as a family name. The fourth addresses children up to the age of 20 to adopt their father's name as a surname. Basically anyone older than that, may or may not have a surname later in their life. I've had a few ancestors who did even though they were older than 20, some not. Mamoahina (talk) 15:33, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

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