Talk:Kira Yamato

Brother of Canard Pars and Parents - clarification needed
Either Canard Pars and Kira Yamato ARE DEFINITELY brothers; OR Ulen Hibiki and Via Hibiki ARE POSSIBLY parents. You can't have ambiguity with the brothers relationship and then they a definite from the same parents relationship at the same time. By definition, same parents = siblings (half or full or step another topic). If they have the same parents, then they ARE brothers. If that is not confirmed, then it should be changed that they POSSIBLY have the same parents. Therefore, either the parents needs to be changed in the Canard Pars and/or the Kira Yamato entry, or the brother relationship needs to be changed in the Canard Pars and Kira Yamato entry. But I need someone whom have read the Manga and watched the Anime to confirm this to give the appropriate answer. Akosygin 03:54, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I have read manga and watched the anime. I would say it is hard to say Kira and Canard are or aren't 100% Brother and Ulen and Hibiki are possibly Parents of them. In short, both of them have their genetic modified when they are in zygote form (or such), and both of them was in artificial womb to prevent harming environtment changing their genetic. CMIIW . Anyway, Via Hibiki refers to them as her children, when quarelling with Ulen, because too many who failed. Draconins 05:25, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Also in eps 45 where Hibiki was talking about his little project it seemed to me that he was only trying to make is own children in to Ultimate Coordinator. But actually the interseting question is how many time did he fail. With the flash back you saw a number that was over 5000, would that mean he failed so many times.


 * I'm removing Canard as a possible brother. No, not right now, but I'm giving everyone a heads up. The entire speculation about the blood relationship comes from a very ambiguous comment from Via. Now, we know she was a seemingly kind and caring woman, so it wouldn't be too odd if she was referring to the entire batch of lab-rat wombs as "our". But that's also speculation.


 * Now, for a bit more solid arguments: Uzumi knew everything about Kira's past, enough to secure and hide the twins, but he never even mentions Canard. Via's confrontation with Ulen happens after his decision to use Kira as a test subject, there's no mention of any children of hers used a year ago. There's a picture of Kira and Cagalli, but none of Canard among the Hibiki's possessions. In general, there's never being any solid hint towards there being a direct blood relation between Canard and Kira/Cagalli. It's far-off speculation. And considering Gundam "unconfirmed hints" tend to be pretty much freaking obvious ("Prayer: I was cloned from a certain EAF pilot" [Moebius Zero flies in the background]), I can't see enough reason to consider this any more than fanfiction material.


 * That's the deal. Comments? Ephyon 04:13, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Major characters should not be merged. Iceberg3k 03:03, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * I recently restructured the Mobile Suit Gundam SEED, Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny pages, along with the Cosmic Era Mobile Units, Battleships and Spacecraft of the Cosmic Era, Cosmic Era list of characters pages. I think a good compromise is a Characters page containing all the main names, with a brief description. These names should link to additional personal pages only where there is enough info to dedicate an entire page to a character, which IS the case here. The same should be done for the mobile suits and for the ships: a listing page with brief descriptions and individual pages where necessary. --IgorTrieste 10:55, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Recitation etc.
I don't want to hurt the feelings of the responsible editors, but who the bloody hell thought it reasonable to recount the minute details of the battles of the last episodes? It's a bloody encyclopedia, not a documentary!

IMNSHO, the last couple of paragraphes could be severely shortened down to two paragraphs without losing any crucial information whatsoever:
 * After obtaining Strike Freedom, Kira returns to Orb by dropping in from orbit, accompanied by Lacus Clyne in Infinite Justice. He intervenes in the battle taking place at Orb, saving Cagalli from being killed by Shinn Asuka. The latter is forced to withdraw from the battlefield for resupplies, which leaves Kira to helping with the defense.
 * When the resupplied Destiny and Legend enter battle again, he is almost killed at the hands of the ZAFT pilots, but is saved by the injured Athrun Zala.

That's it. This article isn't "retell the whole arc of SEED Destiny involving Kira", it's a encyclopedial article about a character. Or, in more understandable terms: it's not a biography, but a fluffy curriculum vitae.

I haven't got the heart to shorten the article by such a significant amount; I'd appreciate if the original author of those paragraphs (who also has a tick for writing from a point of view perspective) would understand his error and correct his own mistake. -- towo 00:25, August 23, 2005 (UTC) IMHO, rather than shorten the paragraph it is better for using sub-section. As the short paragraph above can make ambiguity about the matter for the ones who never actually seen corresponding anime episode or manga chapter. The ambiguity (IMHO): Who the ZAFT pilots? The Cannon fodder ^^? Is he is really almost killed (he may only take severe damage, who know? Remember Muu's case?)? And more of these, Kira outperform Shinn in one to one battle in the first part (the destiny sword even get caught and destiny may be killed if Kira using the abdomen cannon) Not to mention Shinn in second part also almost shot by the double beam rifle if not intervened with legend.152.118.24.10 05:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to shorten it. I watch this article, and it definetly needs it. I just haven't taken time to shorten. Dark glaive 22:25, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Uh, I have putting sub-sections on history section. Hope you all like it. ^^ Draconins 06:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

About Kira being the culprit of Shinn's family death
After viewing phase One of Destiny many times, I dont see how Freedom's HiMAT was taken as the direct culprit of Shinn's family deaths. Its Oficial (i.e. its in the official site) or its just fan information? Even then, at that particular episode of SEED, Freedom was fighting against OMNI/EAF new MS, specially Forbidden,who could deflect incoming beam attacks, so I dont really see Kira being directly blamed for their deaths, unless its a fact said in the official site...
 * I would say so, i notice some edit war a long time ago regarding this matter, anyway there is no proof (at least for me) that Kira DIRECTLY kill them, but I agree if you say INDIRECTLY as wars alyways make victims, don't they?152.118.24.10 05:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Nature of the relationship between Lacus and Kira
Do we need such section? As I saw it is mostly a speculation (although based on facts)? Draconins 02:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's a topic worth mentioning, it is true that there are 2 such views towards the relationship. It could perhaps do with some cleanup to make it look more neutral. It's also in the section for Lacus.--71.12.221.109 18:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's worth having to a degree. Discussion of their relationship (one which seems important to both of them) is worth having since they're not presented within the story as typical googly eyed lovers. What isn't needed is comments about fans hoping we'll see them kiss or get married, hence why I edited that out in both Kira and Lacus' pages. --HellCat86 22:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Ranks of Kira Yamato
I am currently confused about Kira Yamato's rank in Orb Union. Anyone can explain that? Or maybe we can have page about ranks' insignia in Orb Union (and also EA)? AFAIK, Orb Union rank is based on Army rank of old Japan Empire, and their general only have 3 levels (Major General, Liutenant General, and General). AFAIK too, The Japan Empire Naval Rank has (Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral. ). So IMHO, Kira Yamato final rank is General. Draconins 14:57, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

You can go here for the ranks Orb Military Ranks. Neovu79

Thanks, I already found that page, but forgot to reply here.... Thanks anyway... Draconins 03:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm atempting to find a much better picture of Kira in his General/Admiral Orb uniform. For now, it's better to leave the title rank associated with the current picture out. Neovu79 17:02, 12 June 2006 (EST)

Does anybody object to adding Commander, Orb Space Fleet under Kira's Rank/Position? Neovu79 23:51, 11 June 2006 (EST)


 * Instead of the title, Commander of Orb Space Fleet I decided to go with a traditional military title, Commander, Orb Space Fleet. It's only a small change, bit tradition is tradition. :) Neovu79 00:01, 12 June 2006 (EST)


 * Well, tradition seems to disagree with you. ^_^ Commander is not used in this context, instead it should be said Commanding Officer, ORB Space Fleet. He still seems awkward in this position, anyway. Khathi 02:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * what makes him CO/COS of the fleet? orb space fleet has it's own chain of command. archangel seem to operate as a seperate service, since it have action in both space and earth; it is like the marines has seperate COS from the navy. they can't order each other's forces around, only the commander-in-chief can do that. Akinkhoo (talk) 23:04, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Is Kira a Newtype?
With Kira's ability to sense other known Newtypes and the ability to utilize the DRAGOON system, would the rest of you consider Kira as a Newtype? Neovu79 01:25, 13 June 2006 (EST)
 * Not until it is officially stated. - Plau 12:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I consider Kira is newtype or "newtype-like". Why I said newtype-like ? Because newtype, AFAIK, never stated in CE episodes Draconins 08:12, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

There have been a few scenes to indicate that Kira might be developing Newtype abilities, like those of Mu La Flaga and Rau Le Creuset. However, Fllay's death scene is not one of those. It was directly stated by director Mitsuo Fukuda that Kira didn't see Fllay or hear anything that she said to him in that scene, and as much as some fans don't like to accept what Fukuda says, he is the director. Also, if you watch the scene carefully, you'll notice that Kira never reacts to the appearance of Fllay's spirit, nor are any the things he says in the scene actually responses to Fllay's lines. 68.47.175.214 00:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Can you provide source for this? 152.118.24.10 05:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Just so we won't start the edit war I want to clarify something. To operate older generations of DRAGOON system or gunbarrels one indeed should be a Newtype. But spatial awareness itself isn't a some arkane ability tht only Newtypes have. It's simply the ability to track what's going around you -- ANYONE have it. Newtypes have it as well, they just much much better at it -- so they can say exactly where would be that car you've just seen speeding past your left shoulder. Oldtype would just say "It's somewhere behind", while Newtype will point its exact position and speed vector. --219.51.104.117 10:19, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The answer is very simple, there are no newtypes in the CE timeline, none.
 * Therefore, Kira is not a newtype, nor Mu, nor anyone that are CE characters.
 * Unless anyone can provide source, official source, stating there are newtypes in the CE timeline, we are pretty sure about Kira not being a newtype at all.
 * For further explanation, I have listed more logical proof in the newtype article due to recent vandalism act on adding unsourced and original research material on all the pages regarding CE characters with high spacial awareness. MythSearcher 05:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * from the interview whit Fukuda (in 2003):
 * question: Are Mwu and Raww Newtypes?
 * answer: Both are the last remaining Newtypes. They were the last Newtypes in the world so I wanted to write a story where non-Newtype people try to solve the problem.


 * in the CE universe when two newtypes are close to each other at An awakened momentor or when they go "berserk" the "newtype-flash" is shown...and if I remember correctly kira had one in episode 39. and the reason why he is a newtypes has probably something to do with the ultimate coordinator project. Kaito-kid 13:13, 04 March 2007 (UTC)

BIAS
First, Why everyone put thier hands for making this article the best ever, everyday there are a new changes, But in other articles specially Shinn Asuka article biases unlimited and the way of writing is from the OWN POV not NPOV, And if you want to add something it will be deleted in the same time why is that, Is this web for OWN OPINIONS or the NPOV. COULD ANYONE HELP ME.
 * Hello, please calm down. Please assume good faith, and don't forget to sign your post. From my perspective, I work on one article until it is enough, then the next so I thought the others may do same as me. Draconins 05:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

You need to clean up the story and what really happen to the story the important one not nonsense like trivia and story you so immature writer.Is look bias is favorable to shinn,athrun and kira story.Athrun became a hero because of kira he is nothing for kira you need not to be a showy.Except your athrun the good looking fighter of peace and shinn the god and the jesus yamato fans.You not need to clean-up the viewer will judge that.They will not visit your site.Ronald23

Cleanup Tag?
Err, I just notice that someone put the cleanup tags. Any comment or change request? I don't understand what should I do, since the cleanup requested per cleanup tag, in my humble opinion, is not needed. I really don't get what points should be cleaned. Draconins 07:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I added the cleanup tags, and they're both relevant. This article doesn't summarize the plot of SEED; it borders on a SEED novelization. This needs to be dramatically reduced.


 * Likewise, this article makes it nearly impossible to verify any claim made here. This needs to be rewritten from an out-of-universe perspective, per WP:WAF. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 10:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

About the Kira Yamato page
What needs to be edited/removed out of Kira's page? I visit the page daily to make sure there's nothing missing.


 * Hohoho, You are visiting this page daily and you didn't found anything anything anything at all, Well I found that little biased statement:
 * In the Aftermath:
 * Kira's accomplishments in both Bloody Valentine Wars proved that he is one of if not the most skilled mobile suit pilot in the SEED universe


 * He is one of the 3 best pilots but he wont ever be the best pilot, I think that there are no need for that biased statement, Deleting it will be more better.Astrys 22:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Er, the "he is one of if not the most" is show us that he is probably one of the best or the best. The statement didn't claim that he is the best. And, out to the topic, In my opinion, your statement above also biased.... 219.83.2.59 13:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If you think that you are right while you are wrong then why not Shinn and Athrun has the same statement in their articles, There are no way to say that Kira is better than anyone of them so: Deleting it or adding a similar statement to Shinn and Athrun articles.


 * And this statement doesn't prove that he is the best but it says that Kira is one of the best pilots or the best, And it means that other pilots like Shinn and Athrun are one of the best but wont be the best because Kira is the best. Again Kira is one of the best 3 pilots in C.E but he wont be the best pilot, If you want to keep this statement then we must add a similar statement to Shinn and Athrun articles or we must say that:


 * "Kira's accomplishments in both Bloody Valentine Wars proved that he is one of the 3 most skilled mobile suit pilots in the SEED universe"


 * OR:


 * "he is one of the most skilled mobile suit pilots"Astrys 22:34, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Long time I don't check this page and I find a seed of war again... 219.83.2.59 is pointing out that the statement doesn't mean to say Kira is the most skilled. I don't understand, where did you (Astrys) deduced this logic: And it means that other pilots like Shinn and Athrun are one of the best but wont be the best because Kira is the best. I still can't derive this. Statement "he is one of if not the most" implies that it is possible that other pilot (even Mu, etc) is the best because it is probable that the other pilot is the best.... At least my understanding of logic says so. About if you want put the sentence in Athrun's or Shinn's page, it is okay and it has nothing related to this page.... I just curious that the sentence "he is one of if not the most" may need reference. OK? Draconins 12:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Again, The all thing is that saying "He is one of if not the most" means that Kira is one of the best pilots and maybe the best pilot and since he would be the most skilled pilot then others wont be the best because he is the best, I'm sorry but I think that you can't understand the idea that if someone is the best others wont be the best because if there are others as skilled as this pilot he wont be called the best, It would be changed to one of the best, I'm not saying that because I want to put it in Shinn's or Athrun's page, I'm saying that because my logic says to me that he is one if not the most means that he would be the best and since he is the best others will be called second best and third best, I think that it would be better to change this statement to a similar statement of what I said before but if you want to keep it then Athrun and Shinn would like to have a similar one, I don't think that I will add things al least you know my problem with English.Astrys 23:05, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * And sorry, If something, The seed of war came from this statement, If I want to start a war I can prove easily how pathetic Kira is but we wont ever end because no one would listen to the other.Astrys 23:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I am sorry I can't continue discussion since I see severe problem on your English and logic. Meybe time teaches you the better ways. Moreover, the sentence have been deleted too (^^). However, I warn you once again: "Do not provoke flame wars and be polite!" . Your sentence : "If I want to start a war I can prove easily how pathetic Kira ...." could stage flame war. Please check your manner, this is public encyclopedia not fan's forum. For you know, I do like Kira, I do not like Shinn, however I always try to maintain neutrality and give as objective as I can. I think many other wikipedians do, and they try as hard as they can to refrain themselves from such provoking sentence. Thanks.... ^^ Draconins 15:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * My logic is fine but your's not, I know the better ways of discussing but you???, Ok, saying about wars and flames Oh ya, Your sentence in clearly the reason of this not my sentence, Saying that "Kira is maybe the most skilled pilot" will easily start a war, And my sentence means it can be proved that Kira isn't the best pilot(nor Shinn and Athrun) so saying that he is one of "If not the most skilled" is clearly a bias, and ya this is public encyclopedia not fan's forum and you know that so there are no need for biases, If you want to keep this sentence, Athrun and Shinn must have a similar one if not say that he is one of the best pilots that's would be enough.


 * For you know, I do like Kira, I do not like Shinn, however I always try to maintain neutrality and give as objective as I can.


 * That's why you are trying to write that Shinn is an anti-hero, to make it clear that Kira is the hero.Astrys 09:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Doh... You really got my nerve now.... I really hate this kind of talking. I didn't say that I want to keep that sentence, in my opinion that sentence unsourced... It is juts your logic is problematic.... Enough said.... Draconins 04:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

This trivia is pretty redundant, do we really need this much?

It is not redundant. In my opinion, i believe that some tidbits for an article is needed as it tells about the unknown things that the audience might have missed. Also, we do not need a large trivia, although relevant data can be placed inside.

I have cleaned up a bit on the article (gramatical, redundant words etc.), but it still is in a mess, retelling the story from Kira's POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ronald23 (talk • contribs)
 * The article doesn't need a cleanup, it needs to get a lawnmower run over it. The primary focus of a character page would be describing said character in detail, his relevance to the story, interactions with other characters, and providing knowledge of their lives, not giving a word-per-word account of every single event in narrative form (which in itself is not allowed). Unfortunately, making ANY sort of major change in the SEED articles is extremely frustrating as it needs no less than an a full debate on each single detail and constant bombardment from users making fan references/fandom made-up facts/extremely subjective notes/popular misconceptions etc. Just for example, even after two debates, I'm still regularly having to edit out constant mentions of Terminal by people who not only add them back up, but also don't even bother to discuss it.


 * In short, I'd only be willing to put some serious work into it if I knew I wasn't the only one and that I wouldn't just be jumping into a tank full of sharks. Ephyon 02:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Weight
How in hell does a person loose THAT MUCH weight at the same time GROW TALLER? Where is this stat information coming from? Do all the characters have an eating disorder that we don't know about? We a lead to believe that all the characters are doing well. I believe that some of the stats on all the characters are fabricated.


 * I don't know off the top of my head exactly how much Kira weighed in either series, but I do remember that shocking weight loss when I looked at the new official stats. The only character who gained weight was Neo/Mwu. :P


 * Out of persistence, it could simply be Coordinators having a different bone structure or how their muscle tissue binds differently. It still sounds like fangirl bait/writing though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.224.53 (talk) 09:04, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Zaft Membership
While preview pics show Kira wearing a white ZAFT uniform, that is not a gaurantee he joins ZAFT in GSDSE. After all, he wore a red ZAFT uniform in GS, but was not an actual member of ZAFT. Until GSDSE is released, claiming Kira is ZAFT commander is speculation. Edward321 00:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Did Any one translated the GSDSE 4 already? Cuz I know that Athurn says something in the credits when it is shown that Kira wears his White Coat. Mabye Athrun gives some explanation on this? Justix-nl 10:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering too how/why Kira goes to ZAFT. I was kinda suprised to read that, since i have been so used to him being with ORB/EA/TERMINAL. Could it be because Lacus is a ZAFT leader and being with ZAFT makes it easier on them? There's a lot to consider. AnthonyWalters 00:18, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Terminal membership
In GSD, Kira and Lacus are clearly part of an organization that has military ships (Archangel, Eternal, etc.) and Gundams (Freedom, the DOM's) complete with pilots (Kira, Andrew, the Dom pilots, etc.) and factories to produce new Gundams (Strike Freedom, Infinite Justice). This organization does not answer to the military or civilian government of Orb, and is in direct conflict with Orb's civilian government for most of the series. What do you think this organization is, if not Terminal?

Kira and Lacus are shown giving orders, but never taking them. If they aren't the leaders of this organization, then who is? Edward321 00:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * To clarify, Lacus is the leader of the Clyne Faction (The Factory/Eternal/those three DOMS). Terminal is a separate mercenary group that is affiliated with and provides Clyne Faction with intelligence. Kira only has official ranks within EAF and Orb military (And now ZAFT, apparently), Clyne Faction isn't an official military force and has no specific rank organization beyond Lacus=Boss. While it IS true that Kira can easily give orders within given that he and Lacus are seem to agree on basically everything, he has no actual official power. Therefore, I'm removing it. Ephyon 04:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Reverted because your edit was misspelled and because it made the article say the crew of Archangel was following Kira's orders because he was Orb military - which makes no sense since they were all disobeying orders from the Orb military and civilian government. Also, if you're going to change this, in addition to fixing the listed problems, you need to cite sources to prove your view, not just state your opinion. Edward321 01:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll admit that was a quick and lazy edit, sorry for the misspelling. That paragraph is merely trying to find a reason for why Ramius and Co. would follow his orders, which really doesn't make much sense overall since he IS officially an Orb Commander regardless of whoever listens to him or not. Still, by that point Orb was back under Cagalli's command and they were in fact fighting as one with the Orb military, so your point is moot.

As for the Terminal=/=Clyne Faction discussion, that's already being discussed in Talk:Factions of the Cosmic Era. From the link given there, take specific care to read the third page of the thread where the exact source is quoted.

And to cover the bases, before trying to dismiss a citation from an official source because you don't trust the interloper (like the unsigning guy in that discussion did), I would hope you could provide a source that DOES list Terminal as being Lacus' group name and being under Kira's lead. You know, seeing as we need to quote sources to prove our view, and none of the extremely passing mentions of the name "Terminal" in the series actually provide any information whatsoever on it, and the entire nature of the information present here comes from the simple generalized assumption that "Terminal helps Lacus, therefore Terminal=Lacus", which is an understandable mistake considering all we are actually told in the series is that something called Terminal helps Lacus. Ephyon 05:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * My point is not moot. The Archangel crew was acting independantly of  the Orb military from the moment it launched to stop Cagalli's wedding.    Much of the crew had rejoined at that point after returning to civilian life, and do not appear to have reenlisted, for an enterprise that was going to be going into direct conflict with the Orb military and civilian government.  And even if Murrue and others are defering to Kira because of his rank in the Orb military, why are they defering to Lacus?


 * The problem with that posted link is it points only to a forum, and I've seen all sorts of stuff claimed as official on forums. If Terminal is not the same thing as the Clyne faction, then quite a lot of articles are going to need a rewrite.  Before something that major is done, I feel an official book and/or website should be specifically cited.


 * If Terminal is just an independant information gathering group, who else has it worked for and who are it's members? And why, instead of contacting them for information, do Lacus and Andrew take the risks of stealing a shuttle, and why do they (and Martin) do all the information gathering themselves?  Edward321 15:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

HUGE WALL O'TEXT ALERT

On the first part, the only time Kira has ever issued an explicit order, or rather, forced someone to obey him was during the final battle. In other words, the only time in which he has ever enforced his rank was during a time in which his rank was valid. During the entire series we never see any other enforcement of the chain of command from anyone in Kira's side, and most of the prompts given by anyone are as requests. If you watched any other Gundam series, scenes like a pilot requesting his commanding officers to do something for whatever reason ("Captain, let me sortie, I have an idea" stuff) is extremely common. What I am saying, is that just because Ramius complied with Kira's request to launch during the Orb Vs. ZAFT battles (as an example) is by no means proof that he is or isn't higher on the food chain. It may be just that she agreed with him or had no reason to protest. And in the same way, when has the Archengel crew ever explicitly obeyed and order from Lacus? Actually, when has Lacus ever issued an order to anyone but the Eternal crew (Which are Clyne Faction, not Orb)?

And you have not produced any evidence either. So Ramius listened to Kira, can you point out where the reason for that is listed? Can you actually point towards ANY real information regarding Terminal?

The point? There is never any clear mention of Kira having real power over non-Orb forces. There is also no mention of Kira NOT having power over non-Orb forces, but in a situation where there is not enough reliable information to certify a claim ("Kira has command over Clyne Faction"), the burden of proof falls on the one trying to ascertain that claim. In an exagerated example, let's say I go to Genghis Khan's page and I say "He liked cats". I doubt anyone would be able to produce consistent verifiable proof of the contrary, but since I don't have any proof that it is real either, the information would be disregarded anyway.

Secondly (Man, that went long), there IS a source quoted. like I said, third page of the thread states clearly '''Page 28 of "Mobile Suit Gundam Seed Destiny Official File: Mechanics 03." Published by Kodansha on September 8, 2005, ISBN4-06-367157-7'''. How much more would you want, a snapshot? If you doubt the interloper, I suggest we go and wipe out ALL pages regarding content never officially translated, which would make just about all MS pages, most manga adaptations, fansubs, etc, which were all translated from official sources by fan translators. Would you consider what you could read in Zeonic-Corps' translation of Destiny Special Edition fact? Well, Deacon Blues (Zeonic's admin) is in that thread as well. As a random add-on just because, if you’ve ever seen a GSD model kit for Strike Freedom/Infinity Justice, they are listed as being under Clyne Faction, no mention of Terminal.

Oh and by the way, if you read the quote carefully, you’ll see that Terminal is listed as a mercenary mafia-like group that trades information and favours Lacus’ group, not strictly allied to it and even less under their command. Why couldn’t Terminal provide info on Destiny Plan is irrelevant, they simply didn’t. You can think about it all you want, but it doesn’t make a difference to the argument: Terminal isn’t under Lacus’ or Kira’s command. Ephyon 19:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

@Edward321: the organization you are talking about is the clyne faction, not terminal. I dont feel like explaining to you what terminal is...but if you want to know more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_of_the_Cosmic_Era#Terminal and the leader of terminal is unknown. Kaito-kid 13:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

ENOUGH WITH JESUS YAMATO
It’s the fourth time I’ve had to revert this. No, idiotic 4chan exaggerated recurring jokes are not encyclopedic content. Moreover, 4chan is not, despite what they might want to believe, the canonical master of the internet, and just because ANONYMOUS spouts that line every three goddamn minutes doesn’t make it common use among the fans, as there are plenty of other communities that don’t.

And no, it’s not in SRW either. I guess 71.230.72.192 misinterpreted what’s on Shinji Ikari’s page. Ephyon 01:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The on the Archangel section
Didn't Kira cry himself to sleep while repaeating "traitor" to himself?--Tempest115 12:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * He is shown saying "traitor" to himself once. I'm not exactly sure if he was crying himself to sleep though, as he probably went to his room so he can be alone while he cried. I'll undo my edit. --Silver Edge 19:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

About SRW @3 reference
From what I've read, the SEED mode boost doesn't affect stats at all, but gives +10% to final dealt damage, final dodge chance and final hit chance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.217.39.244 (talk) 20:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Kyama.JPG
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Fair use rationale for Image:Strike Freedom.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Strike Freedom.jpg
Image:Strike Freedom.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 21:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Unaddressed long term problems of this article
This article has been tagged as "in universe" and having an overlong plot section since early August, 2006--nearly eighteen months ago.

Let's see what Kira has going for him in the real world:
 * He's the protagonist of Mobile Suit Gundam SEED
 * This series won several major awards
 * It has international significance. For instance Cartoon Network in the USA has shown it
 * It was described by an AnimeNation analyst as a breakthrough series, popular with regular Japanese viewers as well as Otaku
 * There were several mangas concerning side stories to the main series
 * He's an important character in Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny
 * Although the relevant article contains little information about the reception of the series, it did win two consecutive Animage awards.

However this article is solely about the character. It contains no real world information at all, so it's 43 kilobytes of plot summary and characterization.

What could be done to address these problems? --Tony Sidaway 08:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Alligiance, Rank, and Mobile Weapons
I think those should be removed. He doesn't have a collection of allegiance, and I find it to be fan information. Ranks is keep or remove, it seems to fit with two of them. Mobile Weapons I think, should be removed and just merged to plot, since he's not keeping them as a collection. DragonZero (talk) 02:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Relevance of Kira's battle vs Rau Le Creuset
The final battle of Gundam Seed is quite possibly the most significant one of the series. It is a character defining moment for Kira Yamato considering he is fighting out of character; not being his usual calm and rational self, going so far as to attempting to kill Rau. It would not be consistent with the article and that of other characters to not provide a brief mention as notable battles have been briefly mentioned including those which do not result in the loss of a mobile suit for the combatant. (example; Inclusion of Shinn's battle vs Kira on Shinn's character page) I also believe it is the intent of the article to provide as brief of a summary as possible. Many significant developments are not described in detail but rather a reference is given. It would not consistent with the article to provide an overlong detailed analysis of why the battle is relevant or to describe the subtle ways in which it effects Kira's personality. Kira's defeat of Rau can also be seen as Kira Yamato's single most important action in the series as Rau was largely responsible for steering the course of the war. Based on the criteria established by this article and those of other Gundam Seed characters it merits inclusion. Vejet (talk) 16:45, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It is the climatic battle of the series, between the protagonist and the chief antagonist, during which the protagonist's first love is murdered by the antagonist. To say it has no impact on Kira is baffling, obviously it has significant impact. Edward321 (talk) 17:51, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


 * But it makes no impact on Kira at all. Saying it affects on Kira's personality or that it was what ended war is wp:original research and not to mention that Kira also battled various other ZAFT pilots in the series' finale. Other stuff makes it clear discussing others is not a valid (although Shinn's battle had a cause and consequence for his it to be mentioned). The reason why battles should be avoided is to avoid fancruft and additionally, Rau's name was already linked in the same paragraph making the link pointless.Tintor2 (talk) 21:34, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Saying it does not affect Kira at all is wp:original research on your part. Rau's named being previously linked does not mean it cannot be mentioned again without a link. I think you are significantly misinterpreting Other stuff and fancruft - based on your interpretation A New Hope should not mention Luke destroying the Death Star and Bridge on the River Kwai should not mention the death of Colonel Nicholson. Edward321 (talk) 22:22, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There has been no proof that such thing is notable for the character. It may have had an impact on Rey, but no Kira. Additionally, sure, he battles Rau, but he also battles other Earth Alliance soldiers who are notable to the story in the last episodes. If we were to place notable opponent he has but makes no impact of him, then we would sure be using fancruft. Moreover, Rau's position was already explained, so there's no need to explain who is he again and provide a link. By the way, if we used the Star Wars example, then that would be Athrun's role as he was supposed to destroy Genesis, while Kira battled the ZAFT and Earth Alliance pilots.Tintor2 (talk) 22:36, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe that there is conclusive evidence that it effects his character by observing his mannerism during the fight and by comparing his behavior at the end of Gundam Seed to the way he acts in Gundam Seed Destiny. But getting past that, any observable effects on his personality are actually irrelevant. It is the implications of this event on the series and on Kira himself that is relevant. Fact is that Kira defeated Rau. There is no need to go into any more detail than that. Whether or not Kira even realized it, defeating Rau was an essential contribution to ending the war. With this action Kira's fulfills his entire purpose in fighting - to end the war. That effect alone makes it a note worth event in his personal history. Vejet (talk) 23:34, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Coming from here, I have no knowledge of this character. That said, you're all on the wrong track. Keep in mind: Nobody is interested in our opinions. Whether some Wikipedians think that some event in the life of a fictional character had an impact on him or not is completely irrelevant. It would be best to find a source making a claim to that end, but lacking such a source we should try to stick to objective criteria in determining what is worth mentioning an what isn't. For instance, we could go by screen time. How long is the sequence in question? And how much is that in comparison to his total screen time?  Good raise  02:40, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Not much really in comparison. Kira appears in about 100 episodes, and the fights lasts for some minutes considering the cuts there are. I still don't haven't seen a source explains how that such battle affects the character, considering there are just speculations.Tintor2 (talk) 15:01, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * “Not much really in comparison. Kira appears in about 100 episodes, and the fights lasts for some minutes considering the cuts there are.” Yes, and the same can be said about every battle in the series give or take a few minutes. If battle time in comparison to series time is relevant why make note of any battles at all? (they all fail this) Whats more important is that the amount of time spent on this battle was more than that spent on any other individual event which occurred in the final battle. Also, Rau was to Kira as Kira was to Shinn; a menacing opponent that in their minds had to be stopped. Why include Shinn’s battle vs Kira on Shinns’s page if Kira’s battle against Rau is not included? What is the difference between them? The only quantifiable difference is that Shinn’s battle vs Kira happened in the middle of one series vs a battle that happened at the end of another series(but actually in the middle of the franchise). Also, Rau died while Kira did not. This arguably makes Shinn’s battle against Kira less relevant. It did not change the outcome of the war. Where as Kira’s battle against Rau was a contributing factor to the end of the original war, Kira's only objective. Defeating Rau was a contributing factor because as shown on numerous occasions, he was an individual who had the authority, motive and capability to manipulate events in his favor. His defeat is more relevant than that of any other combatant because he was the only one shown to have these capabilities. The fact that the final battle occurred as it did was due entirely to Rau’s machinations. Therefore his defeat is of greater prominence than Kira’s defeat of any other specific individual. In any case, my main issue is with consistency. The same standard being discussed here has not be applied to other Gundam Seed/Destiny characters therefore seeing as no consensus can be reached here I will be making the appropriate changes. Vejet (talk) 19:11, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Firstly, if we cared more about consistency (I believe you meant consistency, not constancy) than about quality, no article would improve, ever. Secondly, you can write a ten page essay on why this is the most important battle in the franchise, if you please, but that won't help here. Since I apparently did not make myself sufficiently clear the first time I said it, I'll point it out again: Our opinions don't matter. A reader who is interested in the opinions of anonymous nobodies can find an endless supply on countless blogs and noticeboards throughout the web. We are not in the business of publishing our own thoughts. (See WP:OR.) Thirdly, that "battle time in comparison to series time is relevant" is not what I said (or meant). The scope of this article is just that one character, not the whole series. Each and every appearance of the character should be given due mention. Due mention may be a whole section, a paragraph, a sentence, or no mention at all. (See WP:DUE.) Determining how much "weight" to give a particular appearance is best done by citing non-primary sources (the primary source in this case is the anime series itself). Without such sources to rely on, we have little choice but to look at the anime itself, but that doesn't equate to a free pass around policy. (Again, see WP:OR.) We need to find a criterion that is as objective as possible. Using screen time is merely a suggestion on my part. To give an example of how that would work: Assuming a character has 100 minutes of screen time, including a 10 minute flashback into his past, a 5 minute battle, a split second appearance in the crowd of a large sports stadium, and 20 minutes of sitting around and playing cards, then the plot summary section ("Appearances" as it is named here) of that character's article should dedicate about 10% of its size to the flashback, 5% to the battle, give a mention at the very most of the appearance in the crowd, and 20% to the character's playing of cards. It's simple and it requires little to no opining on our part.  Good raise  23:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If I were to start giving reasons all over again, is that Kira's fight against Rau was just one of the many fights he had in the last ten episodes which helped the end war. There is no source that says that affects him, while if I were to refer to otherstuff, his fight against Shinn actually helps to explain why Kira lost his current mobile suit and had to use another. Strangely, Vejet already did a similar edit to Shinn Asuka's page using the same argument so I'm quite confused about his reason.Tintor2 (talk) 23:55, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * re; Screen time - the majority of Kira's screen time in the episode is question was fighting Rau. re; significance of the battle - I stated that it is "perhaps" the most significant battle, I did not claim that it was in fact and yes that would be my own personal opinion which is of course irrelevant. The facts support the notion that the battle is a significant event. This is the battle that actually results in the end of the (1st)war - the stated object of all the protagonists. re; "Thirdly, that "battle time in comparison to series time is relevant" is not what I said (or meant)" I understand your position, my comment was not in response to you. "Strangely Vejet already did a similar edit to Shinn Asuka's page] using the same argument so I'm quite confused about his reason." Please read my comment before to understand my reasoning for the aforementioned edit. The articles in question should be consistent now. However they are lacking in detail and hence quality which, as Goodraise has noted, should be of a greater concern. However it seems we are unable to achieve a higher standard since there is no 'consensus' on this matter. Vejet (talk) 04:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

That there is no consensus at this moment means squat. Consensus is created through editing of articles and discussions on talk pages. What I'd like to know (an estimate would suffice as far as I'm concerned) is how long this particular battle is (in minutes) and how many minutes of screen time Kira has in the whole series. As for your facts-based reasoning, you are mistaken in assuming that it doesn't contain your opinion. It may be a fact that all the protagonists wanted to end the war (let's call this fact A). And it may just as well be a fact that the battle in question results in the end of said war (let's call this fact B). However, it is you who combines facts A and B to draw the conclusion C, namely that the battle is significant. Strictly speaking, that is what we call original research. In practice, writing plot summaries using primary sources always involves a certain degree of interpretation. This is no problem as long as everyone agrees on these interpretations. In this case, as you quite correctly point out, there is no consensus for your interpretation. The solution is to fall back on more objective criteria, like analysing screen time.  Good raise  06:18, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes your right, based on the information available its not a quantifiable fact, simply common sense. Re; minutes Kira and Rau’s battle takes about 5 minutes of screen time in episode 50. I’m guessing his average screen time per episode is normally about 4-5 minutes per episode. 5 minutes per episode that gives you 245 minutes for 49 episodes. The 5 minutes spent on the battle between Kira and Rau would represent approx. 2% of his total screen time (this of course does not including the 80 seconds spent on Kira having a ‘moment’ with the girl Rau kills in the episode during their battle). I count 508 words in the article on Kira’s actions in the first series. 2% of this would be 10 words, basically one sentence. There is no mention in the article of this specific battle. Vejet (talk) 09:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Then wouldn't the same apply to the previous episode where Kira spent minutes battling the Earth Alliance pilots? Kira spent about two episodes in the final battle, one against the Earth Alliance soldiers, and one against Rau which summarizing would be all of the Archangel's enemies.Tintor2 (talk) 14:18, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken, Kira's total screen time in episode 49, is less than 2 minutes. He spends approx. 20 seconds of screen time fighting the prominent Earth Alliance soldiers and he does not defeat a single one by himself. Perhaps it can be said that his actions were vital to the defeat of the Calamity's when it dodged his attack only to be destroyed by Athrun. In any case you have 20 seconds of screen time vs 5 minutes from a total of 200-250 minutes. Vejet (talk) 19:25, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope, overdetails of battles should be avoided. In any case, how is the defeat or death of somebody else important enough to put it an article? The fight against Stella was also long and it included the death of a notable character (although saying notable or anything is OR).Tintor2 (talk) 20:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The edits are not over detailed, the total screen time compared to the word count is in proportion. Vejet (talk) 22:07, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * How would that fit? Does this sound right? "Kira continues to fight along side the Archangel until their opponents, including Rau, have been defeated and the war comes to end."Tintor2 (talk) 23:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that fits and sounds fine. Everyone else in agreement?Vejet (talk) 00:57, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

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