Talk:Kittie/Archive 1

Until the End
The band until the end never ended up naming their album "Kittie." They jokingly threatened to do so, but actually named their 2004 album "The Blind Leading the Lost." For this reason, I am deleting this fact from the page for Kittie and for the album Until the End because it is false.

Nu-metal?
Kittie isn't necesarily nu-metal - they're heavier than any nu-metal band I've ever heard, and their use of hip-hop / industrial elements is very, very minimal.

Alternative metal describes them best - that includes nu-metal, so they can be nu-metal if you must have them down as such.

~Mal
 * Well, if you use Spit as an example, then Kittie is definitely not nu metal. Their sound has changed a bit with time, though. I can't really say how much, as I haven't listened to Until the End yet. Nevertheless, I do agree with using alternative metal as their genre, as it seems far more fitting than nu metal. --Sn0wflake 23:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I think that none the less, Heavy Metal does not describe them. Heavy Metal generally brings connotations of Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Slayer,etc. Not bands like Kittie. I think just plain Metal or Alt. Metal would be more appropriate. -- j

Kittie is definetly a KICK ASS band... whether they are NU-METAL OR JUST ANY OTHER METAL GENRE, they kicked ass and they will continue to kick ass...
 * just me*

Kittie is more metalcore and moshcore, to be more descriptive than an alternative tag. 75.49.13.88 02:19, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

That was fast ... I listed them as groove metal, because they employ guitar riffs reminiscent of thrash metal and the vocals consist mostly of heavy screaming, a trait of metalcore. Can we actually discuss the genre before we have a revert war over it? 75.49.13.88 02:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * If you read this talkpage you can see that the majority agrees that Kittie is an alternative metal band, you can't just go and delete that and insert what you think is right without citing sources or gaining consensus. Furthermore, screaming is a vocal style not unique to metalcore and unless Kittie's new album sounds like As I Lay Dying I doubt they can correctly be called metalcore. --Leon Sword 23:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Could Kittie be a Gothic Metal band?
 * yes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.131.14 (talk) 15:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think kittie is a nu-metal band simply because their music is not accompanied by turntables. It is not gothic either for the lack of classic instruments and choir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.104.100 (talk) 05:37, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Turntables are not essential in determining whether they are nu-metal. Lots of nu metal bands haven't used turntables...it's the detuned groove-core sound that epitomised the sound in the 90s that makes them a nu metal band. Given the general rule of thumb about what constitutes a nu metal band, Kittie seem to conform to most of them (see Wiki page about Nu metal), I think they easily fall under that heading. There is no way they fall under the Gothic metal band...for that you need to see bands like Paradise Lost, Type O Negative, My Dying Bride and to a certain extent Within Temptation and Lacuna Coil. The sound is hugely different. Drivenapart (talk) 14:41, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Essi Berelian's "Rough Guide to Heavy Metal" firmly terms then "nu metal", so that tag is here to stay, and I've made that the opening line genre in light of that. Prophaniti (talk) 10:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The first two albums were nu metal but I'd argue that Until the end is more metalcore while Funeral for Yesterday is closest to (despite totally not being) melodic black metal. Just like Strapping Young Lad and their grindcore debut, Kittie is now a totally different band from their first album.

Sorry, but Kittie IS NOT NU-METAL. Refer to reliable source such as rockdetector.com who lists them as Alternative Metal, Metal and Metalcore. On top of that, they've been following the band since their start and has never considered them NU-METAL. I feel Alternative Metal suits them best. Essi Berelians Rough Guide list so many bands in the wrong genre that no one should even credit it or list it as a reliable resource. --User:throwupnchoke 03:53, 04 February 2009 (UTC)

Spit album is Nu Metal, Oracle, Until The End, Funeral for Yesterday and In The Black is Alternative Metal with influences of Metalcore, Death Metal and Groove, Kittie is not Metalcore not have breakdowns. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.215.202.5 (talk) 01:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

They're definitely not a metal band. They may be classified as Nu Metal, though, which isn't a metal subgenre.190.17.11.62 (talk) 04:47, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether you like it or not, nu metal is metal, otherwise it wouldn't have "metal" in its name. And Kittie is a metal band in multiple metal genres, otherwise journalists and music critics wouldn't describe them as such. WTF (talk) 19:03, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

- - - Why is the band's [debated] genre lost at the bottom of the main article after discography? Can we please move it to the introduction to the band? The introduction is too puny as it is, this article needs some work! Thanks! 189.63.13.210 (talk) 11:24, 9 May 2014 (UTC)Pete, Brazil, May 5th 2014

Upload a Pic
Would someone please upload a picture of kittie? I can't figure out how to do it.

WW 11 June, 2006 4:56 (UTC)
 * Could we get a caption for the photo please? Since they've had lots of members it's not clear who's in the picture. (Ulterior motive: I want to know who the hottie on the left is ;)) --kingboyk 14:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry man. I couldn't get an image caption, because the infobox has to be "musical artist", and not "band". By the way, the "hottie" on the left is Trish Doan. ScreamAtMe 13:40, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Redirect
When i search Morgan Lander, it redirected me to Kittie. Shouldn't there be an article for her (and Mercedes)? ScreamAtMe 22:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

What the fuck, LOL!
Who put they are death metal or metalcore. Kittie is definitely Alternative Metal/Nu-Metal PLEASE DELETE THIS SECTION! THERE IS ALREADY A DEBATE ABOUT THE GENRE OF THE BAND CONSISTING OF OVER 2 PAGES IN ANOTHER SECTION! THANK YOU! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.63.13.210 (talk) 11:13, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Until the End
The band until the end never ended up naming their album "Kittie." They jokingly threatened to do so, but actually named their 2004 album "The Blind Leading the Lost." For this reason, I am deleting this fact from the page for Kittie and for the album Until the End because it is false.

Jeff Phillips
I highly doubt that Jeff Phillips is the same guy as the ex-Kittie guitarist and Thine Eyes Bleed guitarist. Failed 60s - 80s Australian pop singers don't tend to sound the same as rock guitarists, and there is no evidence (pictures, a fuller biography) linking the two. Plus the fact that Jeff is in bands from London, Canada and NONE from Australia makes it even less likely he is the same person as was previously linked to in the article. JKing404


 * Further to this, I have created a stub for Jeff_Phillips_(guitarist) with what little information I know about him. Please help expand it if you know anything further to this. JKing404 20:39, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oops, just noticed the link at the very bottom of all the member's pages is still taking us to the old Jeff Phillips bio, so I've changed those as well. Never too late, eh? JKing404 11:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.111.240 (talk)

Fair use rationale for Image:Kittieoracle.jpg
Image:Kittieoracle.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Angels Fuck,
I just heard somewhere that Kittie did a cover to the Jack Off Jill song Angels Fuck, or A.K.A "Angels Fuck, Devils Kiss." I am a big fan of both JOJ and Kittie so I have to know, is this true? Mutlee (talk) 18:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never heard of this, it's probably a rumour due to miss labeling on file sharing sites/programs (as is always a case with songs)  Doktor  Wilhelm   18:24, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Talena Atfield's part within the band
12.182.97.130 keeps reverting my edits to this article, in reference to Talena Atfield, with no reason given as to why they disagree with my removal of the lines: "who was a contracted side player and never an official member" & "her contracted employment". The term contracted side player is wrong, all members of a band signed to a record lable are contracted to be in the band, and so there is also no need to specifically point out that she was "under contract", and the part about her never being an official member is also untrue (unless it can be proved overwise?).  Doktor  Wilhelm   19:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

RfC: What should be done?
The major "sources" for this article are YouTube. I patched some major problems and added some minor fixes, but I can't get a sense of what, if anything, should be saved.Novangelis (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This really doesn't need any discussion. Unless the performances were discussed in a biography or genre book, they are not notable. I deleted the entire sentence. I would suggest reading up on the band through books covering its history and music and rewriting the article through those sources. (Sugar Bear (talk) 20:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC))
 * This was Kittie's first time to South America, and to Kittie and the fans it was a BIG deal. It's also media of Ivy's first performances with them, and if you watch the videos you can clearly see these shows were pretty huge. I don't understand why people keep coming out of no where and deleting information that some of us have been updating and editing from the beginning. Now, the whole section on that is gone? Seriously? Some of us have been following the band from the very beginning before they were signed, we don't need to read books or do research on a band we've been following for the last 10 years. (Throwupnchoke (talk) 12:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC))
 * Honestly, I hear this attitude from all music fans. Every fan of every single band thinks that everything that these bands have done is notable. This is an encyclopedia, not a fansite. (Sugar Bear (talk) 18:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC))
 * Fact of the matter is, i'm not gonna argue with you. I'm gonna keep the South American info on there, as well as Ivy's debut as it's been there almost 2 years. As I said, some of us have been updating their wikipedia since the beginning. Throwupnchoke (User talk:Throwupnchoketalk) 18:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC))
 * As previously stated, this information is poorly-sourced. Wikipedia is not a collection of information on everything. (Sugar Bear (talk) 15:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC))
 * I concur with Throwupnchoke, this marked Ivy's debut, so is therefor notable. Rather than edit warring, which could see one or both of you blocked, could we not endevour to find a better source, whilst leaving the information in place. magnius (talk) 19:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

History Section
The history section is kind of all over the place and hard to read. It could use some general clean-up, but there are a couple of specific things that I think should be addressed. Since I've never contributed to this page I don't want to just change it based on my own opinion. For example, the paragraph "In 2004, Kittie released the album Until the End". If I didn't know better I'd assume that "Until the End" was their second album since "Oracle" is never mentioned. So either mention all the releases in the history section, or none. It's probably OK to mention a release in a particular historical context, but to have a paragraph specifically pointing out one album, while not doing this for other releases seems inconsistent to me.

The line "As with Talena Atfield's departure from the band, financial reasons were cited" references something that was never mentioned previously. This may be due to the fact that (based on what I read in talk) there have been references to Talena removed. In any case the line implies that this was previously mentioned in the article, although it wasn't. Either include something about Talena's financial reasons, or remove "As with Talena Atfield's departure from the band" completely.

Genre
I decided to put the most sourced genres to the genre list. Death metal is heavily sourced and so is nu metal. Alternative metal and heavy metal have more sources than the other genres. Alternative punk should be removed. Kittie clearly are metal and aren't alternative or punk at all. Although i know that it was sourced, many people are going to disagree on Kittie being called alternative punk and it isn't a real genre with its own page on Wikipedia. Kittie have been put under many genres according to sources and it is best to give the genre field the most sourced genres and genres that most can agree on.

Statik N (talk) 02:19, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The problem was that a bunch of "the sources" which were in the article were poor ones, considered unreliable per WikiProject Albums/Sources. Some dubious sources include The Stranger (looks like a user review), ArtistDirect (not original material), SoundSpike (story doesn't show up, cannot be searched, not even the author's name), Metal Underground (user review), Metal Storm (future conjecture). These should all be removed. Binksternet (talk) 06:33, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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External links modified
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